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| Why Friends-With-Benefits and Not LTR? https://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=69102 |
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| Author: | OctavianusPUA [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Why Friends-With-Benefits and Not LTR? |
I have been successfully attracting women for one-night-stands and for friends-with-benefits, but have had zero luck in acquiring an LTR! My current FWB will hang out with me, hold my hand and make out with me in public, have sex with me, but tells me repeatedly that she has NO romantic interest in me and that she will never fall in love with me. What causes this problem!? What general mistakes would make women want to have sex with guy repeatedly but not date him? I have been having a monstrous time finding an answer to this one. Any and all advice will be much appreciated. - OctavianusPUA |
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| Author: | Femme85 [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:11 pm ] |
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What kind of implications/expectations did you set? Did you guys have sex early? I do think that girls who are willing to have sex via pick up / on a first date or are casually dating just usually aren't looking for at least aren't expecting a relationship. Maybe this "3 date rule" isn't that stupid. Try talking about possible future plans and how well you guys fit together early in the game (this might be difficult, it can scare a girl, just like it can scare a guy) like between date 2-4 (sex earliest on date 3)? What is very important for relationships but not so much for hook ups is equal VALUES, ideals and piorities/goals in life. Find a girl where you connect on such a deeper level and make sure you have a long conversation where you understand eachother and share intimate thoughts (like childhood, what you've learned in life, philosophy, dreams, hopes, aspirations). I think when you reach that level of conversation without losing the sexual tension, that creates a feeling of romance that she'll remember. |
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| Author: | OctavianusPUA [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:43 am ] |
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Thanks for the advice Femme! There are some really great insights in your response. We did have sex on the first date so maybe that was a sign that she was never interested in having a serious relationship. Here is some quick back story if it helps answer some of your questions... She is German, oddly enough, and we met on a dating site. We had a great first date which led to incredible sex. This was followed by days of google chatting for hours and meeting up twice for late night sex. After the second encounter, she started to pull away from me in the usual ways. She started communicating more sporadically and seemed to have lost interest. We meet up for coffee and she says to me "I really like you but I don't see this going anywhere romantically." This was followed by "I still want you as a friend and as a potential sexual option." I was pretty hurt by this, but still kept in awkward occasional contact with her over the next few weeks before giving up on her. This is where is gets really confusing... I randomly message her one day and suddenly our playful rapport comes rushing back. We agree to meet up for drinks. The same day we are supposed to meet, she messages me early and asks me to meet her for an early coffee as well. I turn her down and we meet up for drinks that night. We drink, hold hands, kiss, laugh and tell personal stories about our love for children and our mixed feelings about our academic career paths. The walk back to her place was like something out a movie. We hold hands and she occasionally stops me to kiss her in the moonlight. We laugh and kiss all the way back to her place where we have very passionate sex. As we are in post-sex cuddle mode she says to me "Are you okay with us having sex even though this isn't going anywhere? I probably should have asked you that before we did it." I reply "We've already had this conversation." Inside of course, I am completely crushed by these words. Next morning I try to leave early but she asks me to stay and offers to make me coffee. All is pleasant and all is well. She doesn't kiss me goodbye but rather hugs me and we part ways. Now we're back to me being a wuss and initiating chats with her every few days or so. I hate to bombard you with so much detail, but you seem to have a firm grasp on this topic. Do you see where I have gone wrong? What is she thinking? I feel like we do connect on that deep level but only when she wants sex from me. Am I completely misreading the situation!? |
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| Author: | 870 [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:52 am ] |
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In my single days, I always made a point of doing something completely non-sexual with any same-night lay the next time we hung out. This was usually unexpected and demonstrated that I was interested in more than just her body, which gave me the emotional capital necessary to push the relationship whichever way I wanted (girlfriend or friend with benefits). You seem to have the sexual side of things down, so maybe it's time to concentrate more on connecting on an emotional level rather than simply physical. Your boy, 870 |
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| Author: | OctavianusPUA [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:17 am ] |
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Great call 870. I tried to schedule non-sexual time twice with her on our second and third hangouts. Both occasions she pushed back our meetup times to too late for anything more than coming over and having sex. This probably should have been an early sign of her intentions. You are exactly right though, I should have pushed harder for a completely non-sexual second meetup. You're also dead on about struggling with connecting emotionally to women. What is the best resource for improving in that area? I used to be a standard nice guy AFC who very easily formed emotional relationships with women. In trying to learn PUA, I think I may have thrown the baby out with the bathwater as it were. Do you have any advice on how to emotionally connect with women, without losing sexual capital and becoming their girlfriend? Clearly I have lost something fairly important here. Thanks again for the great advice. |
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| Author: | Femme85 [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:24 am ] |
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Quote: This was followed by days of google chatting for hours and meeting up twice for late night sex. After the second encounter, she started to pull away from me in the usual ways. She started communicating more sporadically and seemed to have lost interest. We meet up for coffee and she says to me "I really like you but I don't see this going anywhere romantically."
hmm I don't know ...870 makes a good point though. But you did seem to have a good start. If you're google chatting for hours seems unlikely that you contacted her too often ("needy") Maybe you showed too MUCH interest in a relationship, too much future plans/expectations and that's scaring her off? That might explain her sudden change. Or maybe she's scared of relationships, doesn't want one in general and it's moving too fast? But on the other hand, if a woman is swept off her feet, wouldn't she give in even if she thought it not the right time / best idea to have a relationship? Have you spoken to her about why she's single? Does she have a problem with monogamy? Is there someone else in the picture? Another thing that can cause problems is chatting vs. real life. Have you noticed differences in your communication on- and offline? Is it harder to speak offline, are you sometimes awkward? That happened to me once, we had become so open online and then when we finally met again offline I was very unsecure and our conversation and the situation didn't go as I expected. Sometimes that sort of schism causes the attraction level to come down. |
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| Author: | Femme85 [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:38 am ] |
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oh, ok the late dates seem to show she's prob. just not looking for a relationship. One more thing I forgot: of course don't keep chatting after her.wait for 2 weeks at least, I'd say. Of course you could wait and find an opportunity to deny sex and tell her you need her to commit and make clear, if she contacts you again, you want to be more than an occasional f-buddy. I personally believe though, that it is not wise to "force" someone to choose a relationship with you. Plus it depends on how important this is to you, because no matter how you do it, it's always a gamble. |
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| Author: | OctavianusPUA [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:02 am ] |
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Interesting points Femme. I have not spoken to her about her interest in relationships in general or why she is single. Her rejection phrasing didn't include anything about not wanting to be in a relationship period, but was very specifically pointed at her feelings towards me personally. I would have felt a million times better if she simply didn't want a relationship, rather than communicating to me what an unlovable piece of shit I am. The truth hurts but you probably nailed it on the head. I should wait two weeks at least before contacting her again. I've just had a 6 year relationship/engagement broken off about month and half ago, so I am feeling pretty raw emotionally. I have dating a sleeping around since, but this was the first date I'd been on in years and this girl was like 95% of what I was looking for in a partner. Being denied love consecutively by the last two women I could've really seen myself with has left a pretty big whole in my inner game. But you are right. If I don't contact her ever again, and she makes no attempt to contact me, I will know for sure that she I mean nothing to her. I also plan on withholding sex if she does try to set that up. But do you think I did anything wrong? Is there some common mistake that I made that crushed my chances of being something more than just an available penis? |
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| Author: | jurupa [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:34 am ] |
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Why do you want a relationship with this girl? She has made it clear to you that the two of you are not going anywhere besides fwb. Why are you pushing a relationship on to her? If you truly want a LTR go out and find a new girl to try and start a LTR with. You be way better off as then you can start things out with a relationship in mind and not a another fwb relationship. Also when it comes to getting a LTR, go out on dates and get to know the girl and hold off on the sex for a bit. |
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| Author: | Femme85 [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:39 am ] |
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I dunno, it's hard to tell what went wrong if what she said did literally meant "no romanctic interest in YOU". You say "this was the first date I'd been on in years and this girl was like 95% of what I was looking for in a partner. " Honestly I think that's pretty early to know she was such a good match, even if you did communicate before the date. I mean people are usually very selective on first dates in what to tell (which you supposedly should be according to PUA techniques, right?) You should try to reflect on whether you came on too strong emotionally/ expecting too much committment/ idealizing her after the first date. That could have made her wary after the second date. Maybe you made assumptions about her personality, that weren't true, seeing more in her (things you consider would be the perfect partner) and/or overlooked other things about her. Women sometimes notice by things you assume about her or they just "feel" that they are being misperceived as some goddess or perfect partner or some fantasy that's not them but interpreted into them and that also creeps them out. |
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