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Books/Tips on conversational skills?
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Author:  neo2damax [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Books/Tips on conversational skills?
Hi,


I have literally no close (as in doing stuffs together reguarly) "real, real life" friends, although I love being social. I wear okay (simple, clean) and look better than average. I am good at giving oral presentations and making a speech (always got a B+ or A in presentations in school). So I am not an outcast/weird guy type.

I have some really good friends over online. I can be very random and funny over MSN. I just can't seem to find the same success in real life. The main problem is the timing. Over online, I can write and continue saying at my own pace without having to think about the talking of the other person which is not the case in real life. So the timing of my jokes and what not kinda don't work as well.

I actually enjoy talking with people or meeting new people. I can find the courage to initiate a conversation most of the time (although hitting on random women would be hard, I can start a boring conversation). However, my conversational skill kind of fails me. Conversations include somewhat awkward moments and often end in short, boring, unpleasant ways. I can't seem to carry the conversation well or take the conversation long and fun or leave good impression from doing so without having to say something embrassing about myself in an attempt to be funny or just to carry the convo (not what I want).

I simply do not know what to talk about after 2 mins (2 mins of basic, dull questions such as what is your major? and why are you here? and etc).

I read some posts in some PUA forums and understand that social proof is nearly everything in school (I am in university). And I am in the one end of extreme without any real, close friends. This very well explains my forever ongoing virginity (even though I can always give the excuse of being a catholic!!!).

I lack the conversational technicalities to carry out a good, fun, long conversation and to make close friendships.

What kind of specific questions, topics, and etc should I go with?

Again, while vague and general tips would help, it wouldn't solve the problem. I lack technicalities.

If you know a really good book that actually teaches you the technicalities, please let me know.

Thanks in advance.
Author:  MrOrange [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
One of the best books on the subject of friends is 'How To Win Friends and Influence People'.

I think you may be overthinking while in conversation. One method David D suggested, that's worked very well for me, is to pick out keywords. Pay attention to what the person is saying and select a word they mentioned and transition into another topic. For example, I was talking to a girl yesterday that mentioned Daria, an old cartoon that was on MTV. I used that to make fun of her glasses saying they looked like Daria's and that got the conversation going into a totally different direction.

Remember to actively listen to what the other person is saying. Most people look like they're listening when all they're doing is thinking of the next thing to say.

Keep the conversation fun and spontaneous. Don't be one of the average guys she's talked to all her life. Be unique. Hope this helps.

Mr. Orange
Author:  JohnnyWolf [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Don't try to learn real life conversational skills though a book.

Sign up for a discussion group or a fun group, such as the ones on meetup.com or your local club, and work on your conversational skills with actual people. They don't have to be young attractive women, talk to old men, women, everyone.
Author:  DonPua [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Don't try to learn real life conversational skills though a book.

Sign up for a discussion group or a fun group, such as the ones on meetup.com or your local club, and work on your conversational skills with actual people. They don't have to be young attractive women, talk to old men, women, everyone.
Why couldn't you learn it from a book too ? There are some books there with great information. The best piece of information I have read and which really helped me out is the concept of "open questions". Closed questions are questions like "What is your name ? Do you like that ? " ... These are bad questions because they only require a Yes or No answer. You can ask a closed question but then you should make it follow by an open question, for example :

You: Do you like soccer ? (= closed queston)
Other person: Yes.
You: What is it that makes you like soccer so much ? (= open question)
Other Person: .... (He will give a whole explanation. Listen carefully, find a keyword and steer the conversation based on that)
Author:  neo2damax [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Okay, the replies have been helpful. Thank you, gentlemen! I will look up the books you guys mentioned on amazon. I would like more quick technicalities if possible since reading an actual book does require more time and effort.

Can the keyword be anything?

And can I take the keyword and steer the conversation into any random, totally unrelated topic?

If I reach a sudden dead end with the keyword? Do I restart with a new question? If so what kind of question would suffice?

How do you cope with awkward moments/sudden pauses?
Author:  openMinded [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:54 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
Don't try to learn real life conversational skills though a book.

Sign up for a discussion group or a fun group, such as the ones on meetup.com or your local club, and work on your conversational skills with actual people. They don't have to be young attractive women, talk to old men, women, everyone.
Why couldn't you learn it from a book too ? There are some books there with great information. The best piece of information I have read and which really helped me out is the concept of "open questions". Closed questions are questions like "What is your name ? Do you like that ? " ... These are bad questions because they only require a Yes or No answer. You can ask a closed question but then you should make it follow by an open question, for example :

You: Do you like soccer ? (= closed queston)
Other person: Yes.
You: What is it that makes you like soccer so much ? (= open question)
Other Person: .... (He will give a whole explanation. Listen carefully, find a keyword and steer the conversation based on that)
I agree with you too. I think book is quite helpful actually, and I like to expand on why.

I find that books are better, because they explain the psychology, and theories.
Author:  openMinded [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:00 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Okay, the replies have been helpful. Thank you, gentlemen! I will look up the books you guys mentioned on amazon. I would like more quick technicalities if possible since reading an actual book does require more time and effort.

Can the keyword be anything?

And can I take the keyword and steer the conversation into any random, totally unrelated topic?

If I reach a sudden dead end with the keyword? Do I restart with a new question? If so what kind of question would suffice?

How do you cope with awkward moments/sudden pauses?
I haven't read any books about conversation tactics yet, and to be honest, i am looking for books that teach this kind of stuff myself.

However, I do have answers for the questions you just asked about:

1)Can the keyword be anything?

It can, but typically, you want the keyword to be the word that stood out in the sentence.

2) And can I take the keyword and steer the conversation into any random, totally unrelated topic?

Yes, but I don't think it is always a good idea to switch topics. My friend mention to never end a topic you started with. Always finish it. Unless the other person wants to change topic.

3) If I reach a sudden dead end with the keyword? Do I restart with a new question? If so what kind of question would suffice?

If you reach a dead end, i think it is about time, you start doing some physical to her.
Author:  AFC Royal [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
A good pattern to follow is statement+question. When she says something, you can first make a statement about it, then have a follow up question, that, like previous posters noted, should be open-ended.

HB: Blah blah yeah, I love soccer.
Me: Oh sweet, I used to play soccer. How'd you get into it?
Author:  neo2damax [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Something physical? How?
Author:  openMinded [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Something physical? How?
Make funny faces.
Do something interesting with your hand or body parts.
If you feel like the attraction and connection is there after the end of the conversation, escalate into kino.

What else? I wonder what other people would do in this situation.
Author:  Darkst0rm [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you're good at online conversation but bad with verbal, then you have the skills necessary for a great conversation, you just need to practice them in the verbal arena instead of the text-only format. Try this: Get a notebook and write down funny/interesting/shocking stories that you've read/heard about, put your own spin on it, condense it down to a 30-to-60 second format, write that down, then practice telling it verbally. This serves several purposes....practicing your speaking skills, in-depth-learning of the subject matter so you don't get caught off-guard, memorization so that you can concentrate on other things (body language, tone of voice, etc). I learned this starting out, and while you're basically compiling your own canned material, it will help you during those awkward moments when conversation stalls.

Books I recommend on this issue:
  • "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by D. Carnagie (already recommended)

    "How to Make People Like You in 90 Seconds" by N. Boothman

    "The Science of Influence" by K. Hogan

    "The 48 Laws of Power" by R. Greene
And yeah, above all, be interesting....then leave. Sixty seconds of interesting conversation will get you remembered more favorably than sixty minutes of dull, pointless small-talk. Conversation is good, but know your limits (still working on that one).
Author:  neo2damax [ Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:36 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks, Darkst0rm!

I do not have a lot of stories to tell, and I run out things to say quick. I try to be funny often (I can be pretty funny (random, sometimes rather rude comments) on MSN but 20% of them work verbally in person due to the timing issue).

That's a good advice about sixty seconds thing. But what are some examples interesting conversations? Do those book help you with how to carry an interesting conversation? Where can I learn the technicalities on that?

Thanks for recommanding the books!
I will definitly buy Carnagie's and Greene's book. I will check out the other ones as well.
Author:  neo2damax [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:19 am ]
Post subject: 
bump for more opinions on good books!
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