PUA Forum
https://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/

Pick Up is a Bunch of Fucking Bullshit
https://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53782		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  Ryan Black SashaPUA [ Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:15 am ]
Post subject:  Pick Up is a Bunch of Fucking Bullshit
Hi.

I'm sure you're expecting this to be an easily refutable piece of tripe from some moralistic idiot talking about how PUAs are a bunch of hypocritical sleazebuckets who don't value high ideals like love and commitment etc.

Well you're wrong.

I broke up with my girlfriend of 4 years after reading "The Game" by Niel Strauss. In my mind, I'd been settling for someone far below what I could achieve and, after all, there are 3 billion women out there, so why not go out there and take my chances and try for something better? Why assume that I should marry the only woman I'd ever truly loved because, after all, I could easily find a woman I'd love far more and would be far more attractive, as well as sharing more of my interests and being more intellectually challenging, right? With these new techniques of attraction, I'd be having more fun than I'd ever had before!

Wrong.

For the past TWO YEARS, I have gone out at least once a weekend, and at most I have gone out on two or three weekdays and both Friday and Saturday. Even if you're a FUCKING IDIOT and know nothing about pickup, you're bound to at least stumble upon some pathetic loser who is stupid enough to stoop low enough to have sex with you just with those odds. Right?

Wrong.

These are the things that have changed since I started reading pickup documents etc.

I now go to the gym about 3-4 times a week. I definitely look better, and people often complement me on my physical appearance whereas before this never used to happen.
I now dress very well. People often complement me on what I'm wearing, whereas before nobody ever did.

I'm very glad I've improved these aspects of my life. However I could have done these things by reading other sources of information such as bodybuilding fora or websites about colour matching and discounted designer men's fashion sales.

The fact is, no matter how much effort I have put into my appearance, I have had no more success with women than I ever did.

As for the mechanics of pick up, don't even get me started:

Open

(Open passing by, over the shoulder, move body language closer to set as intensity of interaction / IOIs increases) This can be anything, common openers include opinion openers such as "hey me and my friend were having a debate / bet..." or situational "oh my god did you see that guy / thing / event over there..." or direct "hey I would be totally kicking myself if I didn't come over here and say hi"

False time constraint

"I have to get back to my friends / I have to leave in a sec but..."

Neg

(Neg the target, not the obstacle, who should be distracted by the wing) Any seemingly thrown out complement or comment that is said from a position of superiority such that the target is forced to re-evaluate her status in light of yours and prove her value to you, rather than vice versa

"Wow hey, we were just having this debate but you have to butt in with that...totally not cool / You can dress her up but you can't take her anywhere / That's a cool dress / shoes / bag / jeans, they're like something my niece would wear"

Kino

Use physical contact to escalate and also as an IOI or IOD as needed

Ring routine / palm read cold read / simple emphasising points of story by touching arm, small of back WITHOUT LOOKING AT PLACE BEING KINO'd

IOI -> IOI -> IOD

As soon as you neg her enough, she will try to win your interest by OIOing, at which point you reward her with an IOI of your own, but anything strong has to be qualified with a lesser IOD, e.g.

"You know when I first met you I was like, well she's ok whatever I suppose, but actually there's something different about you...don't get a big head or anything!

Isolate

Say to friends you want to borrow their friend a sec NEVER SAY I WON'T HURT HER OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. Goto a place within sight of her friends

Build comfort

You should have done part of this by kino'ing earlier. Do the cube or any other cold reading technique. Talk about future plans, aspirations, shared ideologies, interests, etc.

Seduction

Bounce locations and eventually get her back to your place with some excuse e.g. "I have to play you a song by that band we were talking about / let's play some Wii I can't believe you've never played it it's the funnest thing ever etc. Freeze out if she puts up any LMR

Now, knowing these things (and far more, this is just to give a general overview of how I approach interactions) I have had sex over the past TWO years exactly twice. The first time was because a close friend of mine introduced me to a girl who I got a day two with only because we were both so drunk that we couldn't have sex and she obviously wanted me because she was OVERWEIGHT and not that attractive and I obliged because I was FUCKING DESPERATE, and the second was almost the exact same circumstance but it was in Germany so luckily there is no chance of running into her ever again.

Now.

My point is that PUA manuals etc. are nothing more than self-help books. Self-help books have an astonishingly poor record of actually helping people, but a very good record of selling self-help books. The fact is, people who buy self-help books, on average, will report some success or improvement (most likely thanks to a more positive attitude, i.e. the placebo effect) followed by a quick remission back to buying ANOTHER SELF-HELP BOOK, ad infinitem.

A positive attitude is great, but having a positive attitude about living in a bag of rubbish in a landfill won't get you any more money or women will it?

No matter how much I agree with the evolutionary-psychological principle that underpin pickup, the fact is that, day after day, night after night, I am left in a half empty club at 3am with everyone who hasn't already left grinding up against a girl in a space too loud to talk in with everyone already totally aware of the fact that I am by myself and there's NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT.

I can keep the (fake) smile on my face, go to the bar and attempt to (unsuccessfully) talk to a girl who's at the bar as I buy a drink, or pretend to be communicating with a friend while I check my phone, but the fact is everybody knows I'm not getting laid tonight and I never fucking will.
Author:  Slywalker [ Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pick Up is a Bunch of Fucking Bullshit
Quote:
but the fact is everybody knows I'm not getting laid tonight and I never fucking will.
Not with that mind-set bro...

If you glow with confidence hot women will approach you, and I don't think you are in a position to refute this because I don't think you have ever believed in yourself enough.

Following the game step by step like you wrote is very old school and not my tactics of choice, I don't think it works very well either, you need to construct your own formula.

I can see that you are fairly new to the forum so please stay here with an open mind, this forum can really help you.

The last thing we need is a new "magnum"
Author:  JasonJulias [ Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:55 am ]
Post subject: 
What?! I love magnum. I haven't been here long and he already makes me feel a lot better for not being like him :P

Have you ever tried writing down at what point things went wrong for you and see if there is a pattern that is disrupting your game? Your problems OBVIOUSLY have a source. You need to pick through things and find what it is. Whether it be you aren't really wanting this lifestyle and pushing yourself into it is ruining your abilities, or that you may actually be doing well but there is that one thing that you really really need to work on to pull it all together.
Author:  roxstar [ Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Sorry to hear about your misfortunes... Personally I think you're too mechanical. You definitely have the The Game, I can tell. Maybe even Mystery Method, as well...

Personally I think you need to loosen it up. You're being mechanical - where's the God damn fun?? That's my rule of thumb --> Fun vs Technique --> Fun wins every time.

That's the way I always do it, I've actually forgotten a lot of theory and technique just to go with the fun. Pretty much going with Natural Tim on this one from RSD, and actually a lot of Adam Lyons. Structure and fun put together is just madness.

Hope things turn around,
Roxstar
Author:  Onoma [ Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pick Up is a Bunch of Fucking Bullshit
Quote:
I broke up with my girlfriend of 4 years after reading "The Game" by Niel Strauss. In my mind, I'd been settling for someone far below what I could achieve and, after all, there are 3 billion women out there, so why not go out there and take my chances and try for something better? Why assume that I should marry the only woman I'd ever truly loved because, after all, I could easily find a woman I'd love far more and would be far more attractive, as well as sharing more of my interests and being more intellectually challenging, right?
Really? Why? Unless you were dissatisfied and looking for an excuse to dump her, there is no reason The Game should have given you reason to believe someone better was out there. In fact, it depressed the hell out of me when I read it because I had just lost my "Lisa" and The Game painted a somewhat bleak picture of meaningless fucks leading up to a possible True Love that a quick search revealed hadn't worked out.

So... umm.. yeah. You weren't happy, and you're blaming a book for making you realize it. Good call. :roll:


Quote:
Even if you're a FUCKING IDIOT and know nothing about pickup, you're bound to at least stumble upon some pathetic loser who is stupid enough to stoop low enough to have sex with you just with those odds. Right?
Nope. Not at all. I spent my 20s dateless and sexless, and have only started getting _some_ action (not even sex, just making out) after incorporating some techniques from here. I hope to move further soon... but the simply truth is that I'm learning to behave how most men instinctually behave.

Just knowing I should do kino has made so much difference...
Author:  KristallNachte [ Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pick Up is a Bunch of Fucking Bullshit
Quote:
I now go to the gym about 3-4 times a week. I definitely look better, and people often complement me on my physical appearance whereas before this never used to happen.
I now dress very well. People often complement me on what I'm wearing, whereas before nobody ever did.

I'm very glad I've improved these aspects of my life. However I could have done these things by reading other sources of information such as bodybuilding fora or websites about colour matching and discounted designer men's fashion sales.
would you have done either of those two without pick up being involved?
Author:  Chief [ Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:20 am ]
Post subject: 
blondguy,

You are one of hundreds and hundreds new guys who are under the impression that PUA = Mystery Method

You're wrong. The seduction community is full of many different methods and approaches. You just happened to follow the most popular and one of the least effective ones.

Mystery Method is, in my opinion, all about socializing and logistics. It's complete rubbish for actual seduction.

If you actually want to get laid, go with Gunwitch Method first. Here it is: www.gunwitch.com

Also, check out my sticky thread titled "Sexual Attraction Explained In-depth" in the Mid-Game section of this forum.
Author:  Foxtrot 5 [ Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:53 am ]
Post subject: 
1.) Your attitude sucks. You wont accomplish anything if you don't believe in yourself.
2.) How about you stop complaining and work at it. There's SO much material here that you can continue learning and applying. I Know Chief's posts and links have helped me a lot. Practice makes perfect.

I started this summer and I'm giving it my all. My inner game is still being built but I practice and I'm seeing results. It's paying off
Author:  TheJ [ Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
The fact is, no matter how much effort I have put into my appearance, I have had no more success with women than I ever did.
Physical appearance is never ment to give you more success, it's just ment not to be a deterent to success. If you run a tight game, but you are overweight, smelly and not well gromed, you'll blow a lot of opportinuties. Apearence will give you a positive first impression. That's it. You don't get laid with first impressions.

What gets you success is entirely different. Like the other guys have said, inner game, attitude, confidence, sexual energy. Work on those.
Author:  Ryan Black SashaPUA [ Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
If you actually want to get laid, go with Gunwitch Method first. Here it is: www.gunwitch.com
I really like this, for the most part. I think it's silly to limit yourself to 1-sets when you can use many other methods to isolate a target from a set, but apart from that it sounds like a simple, effective method. I'll give it a try soon. Thanks!
Author:  Ryan Black SashaPUA [ Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Sorry to hear about your misfortunes... Personally I think you're too mechanical. You definitely have the The Game, I can tell. Maybe even Mystery Method, as well...

Personally I think you need to loosen it up. You're being mechanical - where's the God damn fun?? That's my rule of thumb --> Fun vs Technique --> Fun wins every time.

That's the way I always do it, I've actually forgotten a lot of theory and technique just to go with the fun. Pretty much going with Natural Tim on this one from RSD, and actually a lot of Adam Lyons. Structure and fun put together is just madness.

Hope things turn around,
Roxstar
I read some of Tyler's stuff but none of it seems to really sink in. MM just naturally makes sense to me (I was very interested in biocultural psychology even before reading any PUA material), which is why I seem to remember it and think it can work but I just haven't mastered it properly or am not using it right.

I'm one of those people who likes to order things in life, whether it's making sure my mp3s all have the correct album art and genre tags (is this post-punk, new wave or no-wave..?) or putting my shirts in colour order on my hangers. Most of life is chaotic, and bringing order to that is comforting to many people, myself included. Rather than looking at every social situation like it's totally different, new and uncertain, it's somewhat relaxing and possibly helpful to be able to say, ok now I'm DHVing and there's an IOI, time to kino escalate etc... i.e. to put all these different and chaotic social signals and actions into neat boxes so you can both know what to expect next and also know what part you fell down on and learn from your mistakes.

I realise that there's always a risk of getting too mechanical, after all people are different and no two situations are exactly the same, but that's the whole point of what style and mystery stress about calibration, right? I ditched canned material a while ago, and now mostly do situational stuff and invent opinion openers based on actual debates I am actually having with friends at the time that night, because it keeps things fresh and it's easier to be congruent. I also don't do any mystical palm reading or cube bullshit because it's completely opposite to everything I actually believe and I think talk of chi/energy/mysticism/fate/spirituality might be much more "chick crack" in LA than it is in the UK. In these ways I'm not rigidly tied down to always doing C versus U shaped smile or shampoo material or whatever, but I feel like just totally throwing away the idea of attract->comfort->seduce would be a waste because it is fundamentally right and it gives your game a natural flow and structure.
Author:  Chief [ Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I feel like just totally throwing away the idea of attract->comfort->seduce would be a waste because it is fundamentally right and it gives your game a natural flow and structure.
Let go of that dogma. How can you say a certain model of seduction is "fundamentally right" if you never got it to work for you? Would throwing it away still be a waste if it meant that you'd actually get laid?

Personally, I can't stand the thought of using linear models of seduction. They are just so limiting to my art and make me feel restricted. A pickup artist is not a pickup scientist. Seduction should be circular, with multiple "stages" of it all going on at once, like a painting giving you different simultaneous emotions from the use of different hues and textures, rather than having different step by step phases for things like attraction and comfort.

However, if you really want a formulaic approach to a social psychology-based method of pickup, Adam Lyons came up with a more effective model than A+C=S:

It's (C-R)+Q+SA

Comfort, break rapport, qualify, sexual escalation

Based on actual social psychology and Adam's experience, this formula is "fundamentally right" and it gives your game a "natural flow and structure." A+C=S has no basis in science, but rather on educated guesses that discount too many variables due to a lack of perspective.

Using Mystery's stuff nowadays is like using a tape player while everyone else uses mp3 players. Seeing someone complain about pickup being "bullshit" after they've only used MM is like seeing someone complain that recorded music sounds bad after only listening to a tape player. It's unfortunate that MM gets the most market exposure because of The Game and VH1.
Author:  Ryan Black SashaPUA [ Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
(C-R)+Q+SA
Comfort, break rapport, qualify, sexual escalation
Can you clarify this / flesh this out more please?
Author:  J_J_Okocha [ Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
u are the type of person that if you dont get results right away u quit instead of looking at what u are doing wrong and practicing more.
Author:  Jaybot [ Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:32 am ]
Post subject: 
no game ... game ...game





lmao this ain't for you mr weekend warrior get back to what you know I am sure your love life was grand before you decided you needed this
Page 1 of 4 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/