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| PUA is Inherently flawed https://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=52404 |
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| Author: | magnum45 [ Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | PUA is Inherently flawed |
I have used the cube routine to get extremely close to screwing about 3 times. I back out each time because: one, the hot girl left with friends (I probably came on to strong). The other girl had a friend over who went berserk because my friend asked her if she had any condoms, and third because I didn't have the courage to fuck this girl in the bathroom at a club. My point, Yea! those would have been cool experiences. I wanted to fuck each of those girls. I didn't. Some girls I do sleep with; usually the girls who are easy, those who throw themselves at me because I don't hold them in high regard, and they usually have a need to feel loved through intercourse. I noticed they are always dependent upon my feelings towards them for their happiness. I don't think having sex will fill a hole in our hearts. I don't see any difference from having a girl around you wanting to be with you and then nailing a girl with routines and lines. Sure it is nice, and when in the moment it feels great. But what are you living for? What is your purpose on this earth? I assume if you are like me it was to get girls. I want to understand women so I would feel loved and accepted. To use lines and routines to fill holes in my heart because of all the rejections I experienced in my past. For me the only thing I needed was 1.) A positive outlook on life 2.) A challenge with reportable results 3.) A lot of practice. 4.) Stupid determination. I eventually become comfortable with who I am now at age 25. I ran into a big wall when people started telling me that I was "over the top". People couldn't understand where I was coming from. I was trying to be outrageous to keep the 10 attracted. Well guys let me tell you. It really does depend on the girl. The girls who responded to that kind of SPAM where HOT, and I was able to win there attention, but it never lasted. Sure, I can become a completely different person through years of practice and mentoring until I am able to nail 10 out of 10 girls I approach. That’s what the gurus are preaching, but what is the point. Don't you see? If you can't be comfortable with your flaws and NOT being able to get the girl, then fixing yourself until perfection will only eliminate who you are. It can not be healthy to value your true essence so lowly. I used to feel so bad about myself that I couldn’t handle rejection? I was there. I still get rejected, but it doesn't hurt anymore. It was with the help of the PUA DETERMINATION and POSITVE attitude that I overcame rejection. Then I overcame my own worst enemy - myself. I was, and still am, believing that I am not worthy of simply standing next to a women. I felt I had to keep the girl entertained- that is not the case. For a serious long term relationship to work out you cannot always be imitating a role model, or entertaining a subject. You have to be comfortable with who you really are. You have to allow yourself to be vulnerable and get rejected, and stay positive (read more on how to stay positive at the bottom) about the experience. A long term relationship needs security. And the tactics for quick intercourse do don't make women feel secure. It doesn't matter if they work or not. A long term relationship needs security. I am sure most of you guys feel like you have "been yourself" and have been rejected a hundred times and no one loves you. I used to feel the same way. What I am saying is that you have to change how you think, but not who you are. You can never become someone else. I assume your experiences have lead you here- to read my post, and question my advice, but now it’s time for you to have a new outlook on your experiences. Trust me on this. Get a goal. Make 3 small goals to achieve the big goal, and never give up until you get the goal or the underlying reason why you created the goal is satisfied. You must not quit (see staying positive at bottom). Then stack on top of that positive experience of achievement and build a new memory of yourself. One that is positive. Soon you will notice people are responding differently, and you are, therefore, changing your perception of yourself because people see you in a different light. Your perception of yourself is how other people will see you! Accept who you are. Realize you can not change your past. Be proud of the fucked up things you did because it made you stronger. Don't be ashamed of anything in your life. I am still ashamed about an abortion I helped my girlfriend carry out with. I do not talk about it, and I don’t know how people will respond to it. In theory we shouldn’t be ashamed of anything. I guess I am because I compare myself to other people. I compare myself to the society that says “You committed murder”. I know there are a lot of people who would support me if I told them, but at the same time I know a lot of people who would judge me harshly and may never understand anything I say after that. I do feel bad about it, but I know it was the right decision for me because I was only 16. If I had gone through with the pregnancy then my life would be working a comfortable job with a life I hated, and raising a child that I might resent because he/she held me back from my dreams. I do regret having sex with the girl without a condom. “She told me that it would be OK to cum inside her because her doctor said she couldn’t get pregnant.” I was stupid to listen to her. She was a molested as a child by her biological father. I used her for sex on a daily basis and became ashamed of myself for it. I was ashamed to be around her or be seen with her, but not discipline enough to stay away, and that was the underlining root of my decline into depression. If you are ashamed of something in your life then you are not comfortable in your own skin. And if you are not comfortable then a women can not be comfortable. You are a mirror for your life partner or girlfriend. You will find her to be compatible with whom you are and the characteristics you possess. Find courage through guidance, practice, goals, and experience. Learn to love yourself for your mistakes. Take charge of your life by achieving. Focus on your future, but enjoy your life. Make your mind re-wired to be positive. You are nothing but lines of program in your head just like a computer. You will soon operate off of these lines like a machine of habit. Take strength in your ability to make decisions while you are young. Be smart and never give up. Magnum To be positive: I didn’t know how to stay positive. I didn’t understand the concept. I had to tell myself “it is good that I woke up on time”, and that I did a “good job in making coffee”. So many people take things for granted and then complain about their lives. We don’t need to complain if we are happy with every small thing we do and we feel proud about every decision we make. The only way to change is to achieve a mental re-wiring of our experiences. At the end of each night for 30 days, stand in a mirror and tell yourself you did a good job on at LEAST 5 things for the day. You drove the car from point A to point B without crashing. You walked up 20 stairs. You made the purchase of an online ticket successfully. Your brain needs to be re-wired just like it was in kindergarten to see life in a positive manner. I know we are late starters to being positive, but with this technique it will help you. Now, I will discuss the most important step of all. After you have looked in the mirror and talked with yourself you need to look deep into your own eyes and say “I LOVE YOU” and stare. Do not turn away and don’t say it causally. You need to receive the love that your parents never gave you. You have to do this for at least 30 days. You will understand what it feels like to be loved after this and to be more positive. After that, follow your goals to achieve success. That will back up your new way of thinking with proof. And never give up. Your mind will play tricks on you and say that you can never achieve "the goal". Part of change is Fear. In order to change you need to accept the fear. Your mind will try every rational thing possible to convince you otherwise, so realize that is fear, and fear is part of change. Understand the fear's concerns and accept the fear. Realize the possiblity of failure and say "faliure is nothing but a learned experience, I am not scared". Good luck on your journey I highly recommend the success principles and thank you very much for listening to me. |
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| Author: | Crowd [ Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quite the read. I appreciate all the positive things you have to say about not giving up, and the personal experiences as well. However, I cant seem to connect the dots on whether or not you are praising or depreciating the value of PUA. Perhaps your doing both. I've joined a local lair in my area and it seems like the community is a really great way to gather a rounded perspective on all the emotions that are involved in becoming your best self and a damn fine PUA. Your absolutely right about needing to love yourself before you can love anyone else. There is a saying that is currently echoing throughout my head from last weeks meet, "Non-judgmental acceptance" (Props Cahnman). I think this applies to what your saying. Learning how to free yourself of judgment for yourself and others; which, in turn creates a much more attractive you for many different reasons. So going back to the start of your post. When your talking about the girls you do sleep with, how you have little regard for them, and how they are dependent upon your feelings towards them for psychological/physiological validation; doesn't that strike you as a little off? Rather than looking at it as though your both trying to fill some hole in year heart, why isn't it that your both looking to satisfy each-other with a rich sexual experience and rejoice in human sexuality, even if it doesn't last more than a night? My purpose in this is to master my own sexual destiny, provide amazing experiences for people that are worth remembering, and giving sexual, psychological, and physiological validation to all parties involved. It is a fundamental human need to be validated. How you go about satisfying your validation is entirely up to you. On the lighter side of things, don't you sarge with at least one condom packed in your pockets somewhere? That would have been a score to bang in a bathroom (women have sexual fantasies of sex in public too!). Also, it would have solved your issue with the girl who asked her room-mate for a condom. I hope to hear more about your perspective! |
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| Author: | KiKKeR [ Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hey, i don't have a lot to say other than this post has really helped me to put some perspective on things.i understand where you are coming from. i go sarging 3 times a week and i can guarantee walking out of the venue with an hb8-10 every time. The problem is i never really DO have a sensation of fulfillment afterwards. The thing is, i'm not really looking for it right now. i know that eventually i will want to settle down a little bit and be a single lady man, but for now i'm just trying to make my own experience. i'm in it strictly for the rush of adrenaline i get from knowing i have the abilities i have. It feels like i have a secret, like i'm in an exclusive club. i just wanted to say thank you for the post (both of you actually) it's nice to see people focusing on the good but at the same time acknowledging the misconceptions, that the art of the PUA will make you happy. it often times takes more than that. |
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| Author: | Impact [ Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I was a master pickup artist about a year ago, now I'm writing a book in regards to being yourself and making that work. I certainly won't agree with the fact that the seduction community doesn't work. When i was in it, the second rule was "Its always your fault", the first being "Take full responsibility". The cube works really well, I picktup my then, girlfriend Emily with that routine! Do it in comfort! Mind you she did modeling and made money selling her own line of fashion online! so she was not some stupid random either! This shows people are genuinely interested in some of what you have to say. The problem being of course that you have to ask yourself how genuine it is, and what merit it has to you and ask yourself if your being a actor or a authentic man. The community works! The only real reason you may not want to be part of it, is because of the ethics, philosophy and morality involved. --------- I also don't understand when people say they get 'no fulfillment'. That more or less tells me as a instructor that you are not really ontop of your life. The most fulfilling and wonderful thing is meeting someone completely new, and adding value to their life, while they add loads of value to yours. You have to be in a very unstable place to not get fulfillment from that, or your simply not getting any worthwhile results! --------- |
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| Author: | magnum45 [ Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | O.K. |
Wow! I am so happy people read my long over exhaustive post. The word value is a relative term. The value of my computer is worth more to me than it is to someone who doesn't know how to use a computer. The value of a long term relationship is so much more rewarding and fulfilling than a one night stand. The value of the long term relationship represents security, unconditional love, and support. The value of a one night stand signifies the willingness of a girl to have an incredible time with you. Then you will in turn have an incredible time back. In theory I see no sense of fulfillment after 20 years of doing this. Most of the relationships involving sex that I have witnessed involve feelings of compassion, maybe not after the first night, but with time I believe the brain will associate the pleasure of intercourse with the person. What is the accomplishment of having sex with 100s or 1000s of girls? What does it prove? Where will it lead you? From what I have seen it will not only ruin your chances of being in a healthy long term relationship, but it will also cause you to be addicted to a habit that you will most likely not break. Value is something I take seriously. Value improves my life and makes me a better person. I have an Idea of what I want to be like. I want to be in a long term relationship. I want to spend time with a girl who is there for me when the times are tough, not always there for me-- but sometimes I need somebody. I want to communicate without screaming and yelling. I want to have a long healthy relationship and raise children. The PUA community needs to realize when each member joins it that they will have to remove extremely good PUA skills after committing to a long term relationship. Those guys who get 10 out of 10 girls are going to have tremendous temptation of another woman, and this will make a long term relationship very hard. Maybe you can have a successful open relationship, but I don’t know. The point of a long term relationship is to find respect and mutual purpose. Most people need to be trained in how to communicate effectively and respectful. For example: As a generalization lets say that women talk about their feelings and men talk about their problems. Most women don’t want solutions like men do. Women want to be felt, understood, and cared for. Men sometimes feel smothered and need alone time. Women don’t understand that we just need to be alone sometimes. It is not like I am saying every women and every man are like this. It is a generalization to help us understand social, biological, and psychological differences. I used to think that women talked too much and I know a lot of men who agree. After learning about these differences, I understood that she was speaking to me not about her problems but about her feelings. I was able to comfort her. She talked less and was comforted by my acceptance of her feelings. My relationships improved. Back to treating women like a sexual conquest. Before I spent a month in Italy studying with 30 other students, 21 of them females, I didn't understand that I treated women like a sexual conquest. My friend would tell me that I would look at a woman in a sexual way, but I kept denying it. I was blinded by my lack of guidance and feedback. I could not see myself like other people saw me. On the trip some people saw me like a normal guy, some people saw me like a pervert who used women for sex, and some people saw me for a man of great value and worth. It all depended on who I talked to and their past experiences. The girls who thought I was a man of great value and worth are the girls who needed my affection to feel good about themselves. The girls that saw me as a pervert are the girls who I thought about sleeping with, but failed to. The girls who thought I was a normal guy where girls I had respect for, but I didn’t treat them like a sexual conquest simply because our connection was one of friendship. One was two dumb and turned me off. The other girl was young and awkward, and one was fat. Another had high respect and had no intention of sleeping with me. I developed friendships with women because I didn’t want to sleep with them. I learned that life is not just about sex. There is so much more out there. If you find yourself frustrated a lot then you need to read some books on why women do what they do. Men are from Mars Women are from Venus David D. doesn’t seem like that type of guy that would need to sleep with women for support. Do you think he would be O.K. to abstaining from sex for lets say 1 year? Do you find that preposterous? Is it absurd to think that you could go without sex for one year? Well, if you don’t I don’t blame you. Cause that shit sucks. But what is 1 year compared to a lifetime of frequent regular non-infected romantic sex? If you think masturbation is fun, just wait until you get a woman who will fulfill your fantasies because she wants you to be happy. What about a women who offers you support to help you. Not a selfish girl who just wants to have fun. For me I would like a girl to cook dinner. Yea I can cook her dinner too and we can switch on doing the dishes… so what. You have to learn to compromise, and choose your battles wisely. If you think you have good social skills then try to maintain a long term relationship and put it to the test. My father is a nice source of what not to do. He doesn’t compromise or understand. He thinks all women are dogs. He has been married 3 times, and has a baby that he has never seen in Utah. He is miserable. I am not that moral. I live in a land of social liberty, and was raised in a land of strict social regulation. I do feel bad when a woman wants more from me than I have to give. My psychologist says that I feel guilty and take blame for the other girl’s feelings, but I shouldn’t. He says that my mother is the reason for my guilt, and that she used guilt to control me. Now I have to move on and respect a women’s decision to sleep with me even if I know she will fall in love. But, I don’t really know if she will fall in love. It just seems like to me every girl that I have ever sleep with has wanted more than just sex. One girl even argued about it saying “how do you know I will fall in love?????” Then after I slept with her I found out she was empty on the inside and needed someone to love her, she used sex to achieve that goal, but I didn’t respect her and didn’t trust her. I didn’t respect her because she didn’t believe she was worth more than being an object. People don’t like being used for sex, and they feel bad about allowing themselves to be used. People have feelings, emotions, and pride. Can someone help me on this because I can not understand why I shouldn’t feel like an enabler of pain? I understand it’s the woman’s decision, but so what. If you make a decision to commit suicide it is not legal for me to shoot you (this is an extreme example, I hope it illustrates my point). I just don’t see the point of sex without commitment anymore. It is just a long strenuous cycle of chasing girls. I am not saying I am some amazing person (even though I truly believe I am). I just think that I am a total asshole to these types of girls and they accept me completely before I have sex with them. They accept me no matter what I do, and then they feel strongly for me after we spend time together. They are simply getting a feeling of “value” from being around me. But they are missing out on the most important part of life. Value is not obtained by a relationship. Value is about a belief and respect a person holds about his or her self. You have to love yourself, alone, before you can love someone else. Love is the ultimate motivator for a long term relationship. Love in brief: Someone who brings out your best self, someone who you enjoy being around, someone who you can be yourself around, and someone who can trust you to act in the mutual purpose of the relationship. Everyone’s definition of Love is different, but if you were like me then you don’t have a clue what love is. You don’t have the slightest bit of comprehension of Love because your family never taught you how. Well I have good news for you. Society loves you as a person. No matter what you did in the past. The people who run our communities love everyone for a person at bare minimum. Each one of your lives would be spared, if you where drowning, and any human where given the opportunity to throw a life preserver over the pier. People love each other. We are social creatures. For me I just had to learn to love myself. Then I could learn to love others, and eventually I will find my true love. I approve of PUA because it helps, but if you choose to ignore the warning signs of PUA then your self esteem is so low that you don’t believe in having a long term relationship. If you have a purpose, and it's not to have a long term relationship then I don’t care what you do. This message is for people who have no purpose in life. I want every one of you to know that you can have a successful long term relationship no matter how bad the women in your past have treated you, and no matter how awful your mother or family treated you. It is possible. Just as it is possible to climb the PUA ladder and land HOT girls. It is possible to achieve success and happiness in a long term relationship through communication, respect, and mutual purpose. Sincerely, Kevin Kerr |
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