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Playing hard to get?
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Author:  Sir Dude [ Tue May 26, 2009 5:04 am ]
Post subject:  Playing hard to get?
Right, gents. I've just started working a retail job, and have become involved in a rather puzzling situation with one of my female co-workers. In my three weeks there, I've only spoken to her on a handful of occasions, but each encounter has been telling in some way. Suffice it to say, I reckon she might be attracted to me, but am getting decidedly mixed signals, and haven't the faintest idea how to proceed.

During my first week on the job, whilst the entire sales team was gathered round, my boss described me as 'the top man back here,' to which she piped up, 'well i'm probably top girl...' To my mind this would seem like she was attempting to qualify herself, though again I haven't the experience to accurately judge there.

Our next encounter occurred whilst I was standing at the till, ringing someone up, and as my eyes casually scanned the horizon, in the periphery of my vision I noticed her slowly sauntering towards me, and she had, apparently, been staring all the while. Recently I have been quite attentive to body language and strong eye contact, so naturally I gazed right back at her in a mannish, but relaxed, sort of way. This lasted at least 3-4 seconds, which I daresay most would agree is an unusually long time to be looking at anyone you don't particularly fancy. She had a rather wistful, perhaps desirous look on her face, though a pessimistic man could easily describe it as apathetic. It felt a bit like a staring contest until the end, when she darted her eyes downward, looking slightly embarrassed.

I took this gesture, as would most reasonably socially intelligent men, as an invitation to approach. As luck would have it, the need to seek her out became unnecessary, as our paths cross fairly frequently, and I bumped into her shortly thereafter. We chatted for a brief spell, about I don't know what, and she seemed not to make any sense whatsoever, rambling on.

I took the opportunity to cast an innocent neg her way (bear in mind this girl is a 10 with a capital 1, and a neg can do no harm), when I delicately remarked on a smudge across her nose. Blushing, she excused herself to the lady's loo and I went about my shitty business.

Over the course of the next few days, our little chance encounters were infrequent, and during a couple of them I made a few absent-minded remarks about whatever happened to be happening at the time, and kino'd slightly, not wishing to make my attentions known from the off.

NOW SUDDENLY, upon arriving at work a few days after the only semi-conversation I've held with this girl, I ask 'what's up', blah, just polite work-speak. Surprisingly, I get nothing but a couple of cool, short-winded answers, and realizing this, I end the pleasantries, and leave her to her own devices, as I'm in no mood to chat anyway.

Ever since then (the past few days), I have caught her staring at me multiple times, and to be quite honest, it has made me a bit uncomfortable. When I'm pitching some useless gadget to an attractive female customer, she will suddenly appear in the area, looking around nervously, or walk past conspicuously. As well, she seems to be openly flirting with every tom dick and harry employed at this place, apart from me. When she knows I'm around, she'll laugh hysterically (even with the ill-humored, creepy, morbidly obese guys), etc. In a word, she's not at all shy it would seem, and talks to everyone, and is constantly orbited by a thousand fawning men, but has taken to going out of her way to avoid me. In the past two days we've crossed paths or been in the same area loads of times, but she hasn't said a word, and neither have I, responding in kind.

Just what the feck is happening here? Is she playing hard to get? Trying to make me jealous perhaps? Or is she shy around me? I know her aloofness cannot have been caused by the neg, as it was delivered in the most benign manner imaginable. And it can't be because she thinks I like her, as I've not given any indication of that. But, unless I'm just completely oblivious to social cues, I reckon she's attracted to me.

My question, if you've read this far, is what shall I make my next move? Should I continue to ignore her, as she seems to be doing to me, and wait for her to make an overture? I must emphasize that I've begun the chats in the past, and I think a girl should have to reciprocate now and then. Should I call her on her stalker-like behavior? I'm well-liked and respected at this job, and I know and talk with everyone, but she's an odd bird. I hasten to add, that I have no trouble with approach anxiety, and am very comfortable around women.

Any experience with this pattern of behavior before, lads? Please advise!

Cheers!
Author:  johnyp03 [ Tue May 26, 2009 5:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Let me preface my post with this bit of advice: getting involved with people you work with is usually a bad idea, even if you have already established a good reputation with your coworkers...maybe especially if you've already established a good reputation. I know that it is bound to happen, but I felt the need to make that disclaimer.

I think you are doing a great job so far, and it seems as though you have separated yourself from your coworkers. I have this one piece of advice: never wait for the girl to make the first move. In ALL situations. YOU are the man. YOU are the leader. Always remember that. If you wait for the girl to make a move, in most cases you will wait forever.

That being said, this is what I would do in your situation: I would definitely bring up that she appears to be stalking you, but make sure to catch her red handed. When you see her just glaring at you, you should make sure to approach her and neg her for stalking you at that point. I would definitely try to build more comfort while at your job, and then in the coming days, maybe invite her out for drinks with your friends. Make it really nonchalant, i.e., "My friends are going to this bar tonight. If you promise not to be a creepy stalker like at work, you can tag along."

From there, I think you should just follow your natural instincts; they seem to be doing you pretty well so far.

Good luck, and keep us posted on what happens!!
Author:  Sir Dude [ Tue May 26, 2009 6:45 am ]
Post subject: 
Many thanks for the prompt reply, johny. I tend to agree that getting involved with one's coworkers is, by and large, not a terrifically good idea, though nor is it a terrifically bad one, and the slight risk of garnering notoriety among peers is far outweighed by the prospect of a relationship with a stunning woman. Besides, discretion is my middle name. This is only a temporary job anyway, and I have no intention of remaining there longer than a few months.

Thanks for the kudos on my behaviour heretofore. To my credit, I've been a fairly cool customer with this girl, and have played my cards closely, as I'm well aware of the way she's treated by typical men, and wishing to set myself apart from typical men, have adopted an atypical approach (though I fell into it naturally and without much contrivance. Very little premeditation on my part).

Put simply, if someone ignores me, and goes out of their way to avoid me, I cannot help but respond accordingly. Every other person at this office has no problem finding me, or chatting me up whenever we cross paths.

At this stage, I know f-ck all about this girl, except that she's fit as hell, has given me several massive IOIs (prolonged eye contact, frequent staring, etc) and am not yet infatuated, though certainly intrigued by her.

As for your advice that the man should always make the first move, I agree, for the most part, but if there's one thing I've learned about exceptionally beautiful women in the past, it's that any attempt to speak with them is instantly deemed an attempt to gain their favour (with rare exceptions). I realise that if one takes care not to appear needy (or , better yet, as in my case, is genuinely not needy), she will be less apt to view your intentions with suspicion, though I still feel that she shares some responsibility in initiating the conversation.

And as for calling her out on the constant glaring, I'm very wary of bringing this up explicitly, if only in a joking manner. Despite her beauty, she seems a bit insecure. At the risk of sounding a bit lame and hokey, during our moment of extended eye contact, I could tell that she's a rather lonely, sad person (I've since discovered that she's single, which may have something to do with it). I could see her ego getting severely bruised by that remark, which may put her off me for good. In other words, she seems like the type of girl that requires incessant affirmation of her beauty and social worth, lest she lose her claim to fame, and, as there exists a possibility (however vague) that she might already be smitten by me, I could wreak irreparable damage by making her so self-conscious. Not to say that she shouldn't be called on the semi-stalking, but it might go off like a lead balloon, and be seen as incredibly untactful.

Perhaps I should just be a bit cheeky, and re-introduce myself the next time we meet? "Hi, I'm Sean. And you are...?" etc.

What do you think about the prolonged eye contact? Is this not proof positive that a girl is attracted?

Would it be better to let an opportunity to meet her outside of work arise naturally, or should I bite the bullet and ask her outright next week? It would seem to me that, if she's keen enough, a chance for us to get together elsewhere would come up at some point, and relieve the pressure of the thing.

For all I know, she's terrified of dating a guy from work, and having everyone else find out about it. Personally, I couldn't care less, but a girl of her status may be unduly concerned about her reputation there.

Any thoughts welcomed and hugely appreciated.
Author:  Sir Dude [ Tue May 26, 2009 8:22 am ]
Post subject: 
Ah right, I forgot to mention another apparent IOI. As we passed each other in an aisle a few days ago, I made some unfunny comment about something (which I don't even think she heard), and she threw her head back with an approving laugh.

I really don't know what to do next. I'm concerned that if I man up and end our little no-speaking policy, and turn on my game, she'll know I'm interested, and will think she's got me. Perhaps she's just seeking my validation at this point, as I haven't given her the attention she's accustomed to from others.

Should I not wait for her to initiate a conversation for once? Or should I treat her constant staring as invitation enough ?
Author:  johnyp03 [ Tue May 26, 2009 12:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
As for your advice that the man should always make the first move, I agree, for the most part, but if there's one thing I've learned about exceptionally beautiful women in the past, it's that any attempt to speak with them is instantly deemed an attempt to gain their favour (with rare exceptions). I realise that if one takes care not to appear needy (or , better yet, as in my case, is genuinely not needy), she will be less apt to view your intentions with suspicion, though I still feel that she shares some responsibility in initiating the conversation.
Ah, that is a good point that I had not thought about. She probably will see you talking to her as an IOI, but I think if you slightly neg her, and treat her as a bratty little sister, or an old friend, that she will become more comfortable. I think at this point, you need to build comfort with slight kino while at work...be careful to keep this appropriate at work!! We don't need any fellow PUAs getting a sexual harassment law suit because of kino!! But you sound intelligent enough that you already know that, so I'm not too worried.
Quote:
And as for calling her out on the constant glaring, I'm very wary of bringing this up explicitly, if only in a joking manner. Despite her beauty, she seems a bit insecure.
Also another good point and very helpful observation. For this one, you will definitely have to feel out any negs that you give her, and make sure that they are not too harsh. I guess negs are only needed for cases in which the girl starts thinking she already has you / is starting to get cocky, so use your instincts on this one.

Quick story: I learned something about the beautiful insecure type last weekend. There was a tall girl (~6'1", HB9) who was wearing a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles tee-shirt at a bar, one of my favorite childhood cartoons. I took the opportunity to say, "Hey tall girl, nice shirt," to which I promptly got blown out because she was apparently insecure about her height. I had honestly never thought about it, but I guess the point is to be careful when negging someone, and try not to pick on their insecurities.
Quote:
Perhaps I should just be a bit cheeky, and re-introduce myself the next time we meet? "Hi, I'm Sean. And you are...?" etc.
You can take this approach, but I personally would not. That is a definite IOI from you to her, and she may take that as a sign that you are interested and back off. I would stick with light conversation. If you don't know her name, find out by other means. It's not important what her name is until you get her outside of work anyways. Either let her ask for your name, or just get her name and number when you have agreed on going somewhere outside of work.
Quote:
What do you think about the prolonged eye contact? Is this not proof positive that a girl is attracted?
Yes, definite IOI. From what you've told me, there's no need to question if she is attracted; prolonged eye contact always tells me that I should open a girl when I see her. This doesn't exactly apply at work, but don't worry about if she is or isn't attracted, just assume that she is.
Quote:
Would it be better to let an opportunity to meet her outside of work arise naturally, or should I bite the bullet and ask her outright next week?
Both. Make meeting her outside of work come up naturally. I would definitely not directly ask her out on a date, though. I would mention something about, "a few friends and I are heading to [this cool place] on [this day], and you can tag along if you're not busy". This way, it's no big deal if she says no, and you can do this a few times being able to be rejected.
Quote:
For all I know, she's terrified of dating a guy from work, and having everyone else find out about it. Personally, I couldn't care less, but a girl of her status may be unduly concerned about her reputation there.
This is something that you can find out as you get to know her, and build rapport. It doesn't really matter either way though, because you are the exception to the rule.
Quote:
Should I not wait for her to initiate a conversation for once? Or should I treat her constant staring as invitation enough?
Initiating conversation at work shouldn't really be a big deal. Just find time in your daily routine to make some comments to her / around her while you are working. I think inconspicuously going on break just before or after she starts her break would be a great time to build more rapport with her, and generally fluff, or run game on her. But I think the main objective at this point is to get her to go somewhere with you outside of work. Once you do that, you can just run your game on her, and it should be easy(at least easier than some random girl) with the rapport you have already built from work.

Best of luck, and keep us updated. Don't hesitate if you have any more questions/comments.
Author:  Sir Dude [ Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:48 am ]
Post subject: 
Alright, bit of an update here, for those that care to hear it.

Today was the first time in the past week I've had a coincident shift with this girl, which put the both of us on the sales floor at the same time. Yet again, she clearly took great pains to avoid me at every turn. If she noticed me walking down an aisle, she'd change her direction and dart off elsewhere, averting her gaze. On one encounter, as we rounded a corner and crossed paths, I casually ask, 'what's up?', as I do with every fellow co-worker , and every customer in the shop. Much to my shock, she snaps back with, 'Don't talk to me right now (mumblemumble)!,' and storms off elsewhere. I just sort of laughed a faint laugh of incredulity, and shook my head. And even though I feigned indifference to the remark, it actually made me feel like utter shit, especially seeing as it was unprovoked. Despite this, I did my best to keep my spirits up the rest of the day, so as not to appear affected by her.

Suffice it to say, this outburst only served to reinforce her previous aloof behaviour, and she became even more obvious about distancing herself from me (which is quite strange, as I've not pursued her in the least). Wishing to appear unfazed, I even took what I saw as the moral high ground by saying, 'Hi, Jenn', as she accidentally (most unintentionally) crossed my path a second time. I must emphasize that I didn't approach her directly, she just stumbled upon me unawares, and were I to remain silent on this occasion, I reckon she'd have thought she'd gotten to me, and elicited the sort of reaction she'd hoped for by such an obviously cruel remark. Surprisingly, she gave a reasonably polite and fairly appropriate response of, 'Hi.'

Now, I'm certain that she wasn't just in a bad mood today, as after she'd basically told me to fuck off, she went right back to chatting up the rest of the male co-workers, and returning to her normal bubbly, effervescent, coquettish self. The immediacy and overtness with which she transitioned to a sunnier disposition was rather appalling, I must say.

Now, she either hates my guts, is playing some inscrutable and highly retarded bout of 'hard to get,' or has the emotional maturity of a 5 year old. Either way, it's probably a dead end, but my curiosity is well piqued at this stage.

Any idea what's going on here? Thoughts, analysis? Should I even bother? What would you do?

Cheers
Author:  johnyp03 [ Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hey Sir Dude, sorry about dropping the thread, sort of got away from the boards for a while.

I'm guessing this situation is either really different or resolved by now, but I just wanted to make a comment. It seems like we tend to think that we are the focus of everyone's thoughts in many situations, or at least in a girl's thoughts, when many times we are not. Not to pick on you, but this is what I'm talking about:
Quote:
Now, she either hates my guts, is playing some inscrutable and highly retarded bout of 'hard to get,' or has the emotional maturity of a 5 year old. Either way, it's probably a dead end, but my curiosity is well piqued at this stage.
These all probably seem like logical explanations but the truth is there are an infinite number of reasons why she acted the way she did, so why to explain her behavior? Over analyzing these situations will DRIVE YOU INSANE! Move on (if you haven't already). Just treat her how you treat all other acquaintances.

This is a really interesting article: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2051

It basically says that we stress out and make rash and illogical decisions when we feel rejected. Keep this in mind when pursuing anyone. We all need to find a balance between rash decisions and over-analyzing.

Give us an update if you have time...
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