PUA Forum :: My story in pua + ?s

A full bio of myself is below. It's a cautionary tale with a few questions. My thanks for any feedback.

BIO:

I'm 24. At 20, I discovered the pua community. At 21, I did my first approach. Consumed tons of theory. At 23, I did my second approach. That was the drill. Consuming theory without applying it. I've spent thousands of hours watching videos and reading books (attraction, anxiety, meditation etc.). Frankly, I know I'm not alone. My friends are largely from the pua community. With my wings, I went to bars, parties etc. to get comfortable talking to women (though I was always too afraid to approach). I know RSD says you have to approach so not blaming anyone.

I'd change that "have to" to a "I'd like to". Altering the language we use with ourselves, though seemingly insignificant, can have a profound way of shaping how we approach things. "Have to" (threat), vs "Would like to" (challenge).

I've come to regard all that cold approach (or rather trying to work up the courage to cold approach) as, for me, an avoidance mechanism. I could feel like a maverick while never once asking out a girl or going on a date. A couple weeks ago, I did my first date ever, using tinder.

"Working up the courage" is a bit of misdirection because it often entices us to focus on the fear rather than giving space to fear and acting in spite of it.

Girls have told me I'm good-looking. I'm insecure, particularly about my extra 10 lbs I can never lose and my hair that's starting to thin. During college, simply telling a girl what school i went to would often make her invite me to her dorm. This freaked me out, and I always backed away immediately. Even a girl holding my hand was enough to make me panic that I'd blow it and yank away.

I grew up with the idea that sex is wrong, I shouldn't seek it, and girls would be disgusted to know I do. Since then, I've been told 100s of times I'm wrong. But my original idea is ingrained intuition.

I'm wondering you must feel a great deal of shame around women; shame in pursuing them ("sex is wrong"), and shame in communication with them ("they're disgusted in knowing you want sex"). You got "SHOULDED" all over you. Bet you feel a lot of guilt as well, helpless too not knowing exactly how to get rid of this intuition/belief of yours.

Insecurities: my low self-esteem, mentally weakness, ugly, and my lifestyle is boring. I'm newly insecure about my upward tonality, lack of pauses between words, poor body language etc. I feel like I'm not entertaining enough to satisfy any girl. Why in the world would a girl want dinner with me there? Moreover, facts of being a human make me feel like a loser. Examples: (A) that I have to work to support myself (B) I feel girls would be disgusted to know I'm attracted to them

You're really picking yourself apart, placing a lot of burden on you. Thought of "I am not enough" is bleeding through your declarative statements about yourself.

I have enormous anxiety. People say my face is always scrunched up from it and I look uncomfortable in my own skin. I have problems with eye contact (I'm OCD about it) and make weird faces when looking at someone's eyes. I worry about creeping people out.

You feel out-of-place and awkward, lots of worry about what others may or may not be thinking about you.

I've started meditation, improved at it, and gone on retreat. I enjoy it, but any calm it produces is short-lived and instantly destroyed by any test. E.g. I meditated and got really calm before my first date, but I was a nervous wreck once it started. I previously suffered severe hypochondria. In retrospect, it's incredible to me I endured some of those episodes and the accompanying ER visits without seeking a shrink (which I still haven't done). Though fortunately, I slipped out of it (I think meditation helped) and it's been a couple years since an episode of hypochondria.

Good for you. Meditation isn't easy especially for most 24 year olds (it requires sitting with yourself and really calming the mind which is a challenge at any age). Ever thought about some sort of Mindfulness meditation? The difference would be you're focused more on what's happening internally, and observing whats going on within your mind rather than on breath or something external.

I am currently in-between jobs, working on a short-term project. I expect to be elsewhere very soon. So I can't really build a social circle, or commit to anything (gym, class etc.). I've always had friends, some awesome people, but we they stay in. I've never been able to build the type of outgoing lifestyle I want. I'm uncomfortable at a bar/club and just don't do much exciting stuff. I've always wished to find a lifestyle designer who can force me to do cool stuff all the time.

My short-term project is in a suburb. Even if I were motivated enough to do cold-approach pickup, it can't in a suburb like this. It's cold outside. Dating options seem limited; I don't drink, which probably limits them more. I'm too insecure to dance. I've sought lessons, but never been able to learn.

There are people close to me who have anxiety/anger/depression. I'm starting to recognize this as causing a lot of my problems. I've noticed in our discussions that they are the ones whose voices raise, not me. Yet I don't know how to endure their aggressive, pained tones, without letting it get me down and making me feel I'm worth less. Acknowleding this is uncomfortable as I don't want to blame other people for my inadequacies.

I urge you to keep the focus on you, rather than what others are or aren't doing TO YOU. This will help you get out of the muck as you'll regain some semblance of control over your life in doing so.

I'm just starting to recognize as meriting professional help (A) this inability to open to women, (B) my anxiety, and (C) my low self-esteem. Though I suspect many psychologists are ineffective. I think my lack of a romantic relationship is driving the other problems I have (anxiety, hypochondria etc.).

Might be a good idea to explore that avenue. That's what free consultations are for (most clinicians offer this) to find a right fit, less so for free counselling. A romantic relationship isn't the crux of your issues, it sounds more like some core beliefs that can be explored some more, and choosing to seek alternate beliefs. You may benefit from something cognitive based such as REBT as it does a great job in helping people identify unhealthy beliefs and changing them to more helpful ones.

Things I've noticed hold me back
1. I went to a very selective college. I was always around smart people so I felt dumb. Whenever I went home for a break, I realized my perspective was warped. Another example, at college, I was around young/fit people so I felt unfit. Again, when I left college, I realized that was crazy. I blame a lot of my mental issues on lacking perspective.
2. Not understanding time. This week, I was amazed to realize that this PUA thing has been going on for...years! I think I've suffered from simply not keeping track of time and thus letting life pass me by.

Positives about myself
1. I've done extremely well academically
2. I have awesome friends I respect enormously, though they're scattered throughout the country
3. I am deeply curious and interested in everything. I read a couple books a week
4. I'm into self-improvement. I exercise, go to self-development seminars etc.

QUESTIONS:

1.
Any way to force myself to act regularly? I've asked people close to me to hold me accountable. We even set up schemes where we trade collateral. But it never gets enforced. No friend ever asked me to name my crush and then forced me to ask her out (or explained what asking her out meant). As silly as that I sounds, I needed that and still do. Analagy, I have plenty of people cheering me on to jump off the diving board but I'm too scared. I need someone to push me in.
Note: "just do it" doesn't work. I (and countless others in this community) simply need a boost..

Having others hold you accountable can sometimes do more harm than good. If, for example, you slip-up it may trigger shame knowing another is holding watch over you. Something to consider. Opening up "fear" and really looking at it may be a worthy endeavour for you. In meditation slang you can simply create space for fear, allow it in and decide to exist in spite of it.

2.
What lifestyle designer do I get?

Dont know what this is

3.
Any thoughts on seeking a therapist to overcome anxiety, self-esteem etc. I
Yes.

Thank you.

Quote:

Altering the language we use with ourselves, though seemingly insignificant, can have a profound way of shaping how we approach things. "Have to" (threat), vs "Would like to" (challenge).[/color]

I cannot thank you enough for the post. From start to finish.

The past several hours, I've been reading about REBT and trying to personalize it. Do you have any suggestions of books or youtube channels for deep diving into the different psychology techniques?

"That's what free consultations are for (most clinicians offer this)." Do you have any advice on finding free ones with qualified people?

I appreciate your suggestion on Mindfulness. I recently subscribed to Headpsace

"Opening up "fear" and really looking at it may be a worthy endeavour for you." Curious what sort of meditation regimen you'd suggest? Metta? A particular guided meditation?

Quote:

Altering the language we use with ourselves, though seemingly insignificant, can have a profound way of shaping how we approach things. "Have to" (threat), vs "Would like to" (challenge).[/color]

I've been meaning to create my own substitutes for PUA terms. Any suggestions? Again, thank you. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the tips.

Of particular interest:

Approach Anxiety
Approach:
Negging
Open
Pickup
Shit Test

I hear you. My concern though is that I'm putting off the problem if I'm not out talking to women. I've consumed so much theory, done meditation etc. in part to avoid facing my real fear.

Definitely sounds wrong. Perhaps I intuitively overvalue the effect it would have on me. Though I do think it would be a healthy thing.

Be congruent
Understand that women won’t make you happy. A relationship won’t make you happy and having 6 different fuck buddies won’t make you happy. You can’t drink you problems away and you sure as hell can’t fuck them away either.
Every man has 3 main aspects to his life. Career, social life, dating life. Work on all of them, not just one. Self-improve. We live in a society where people are socially conditioned to be ordinary, to not take chances and to play it safe. Fuck that. Quit your job if it’s shit and start doing what you love. Meet people and form great friendships. Talk to that attractive woman regardless of the fact that you’re wearing your gym equipment. I know it’s easier said than done, but a life of mediocrity is a big price to pay. No one on their death bed will ever say: "I wish I did less of what I loved."

If you want to be an attractive man you have to live an attractive life. And fortunately, that’s entirely up to you. The more confident you become in who you are, the more rewarding your relationships with the people around you will be. Men and women. Happiness is something you build on your own and then chose who you want to share it with. It’s not something you leech off of whoever gives you the time of day.

Extremely helpful post. I went through it carefully. I will try the eye activity and let you know how it goes. appreciate the support. I just got the audiobook for Models. I'm curious why you prize weightlifting over cardio? Thank you as well for the offer to pm. I'll take you up. Thanks again.

A full bio of myself is below. It's a cautionary tale with a few questions. My thanks for any feedback.

BIO:

I'm 24. At 20, I discovered the pua community. At 21, I did my first approach. Consumed tons of theory. At 23, I did my second approach. That was the drill. Consuming theory without applying it. I've spent thousands of hours watching videos and reading books (attraction, anxiety, meditation etc.). Frankly, I know I'm not alone. My friends are largely from the pua community. With my wings, I went to bars, parties etc. to get comfortable talking to women (though I was always too afraid to approach). I know RSD says you have to approach so not blaming anyone.

I've come to regard all that cold approach (or rather trying to work up the courage to cold approach) as, for me, an avoidance mechanism. I could feel like a maverick while never once asking out a girl or going on a date. A couple weeks ago, I did my first date ever, using tinder.

Girls have told me I'm good-looking. I'm insecure, particularly about my extra 10 lbs I can never lose and my hair that's starting to thin. During college, simply telling a girl what school i went to would often make her invite me to her dorm. This freaked me out, and I always backed away immediately. Even a girl holding my hand was enough to make me panic that I'd blow it and yank away.

I grew up with the idea that sex is wrong, I shouldn't seek it, and girls would be disgusted to know I do. Since then, I've been told 100s of times I'm wrong. But my original idea is ingrained intuition.

Insecurities: my low self-esteem, mentally weakness, ugly, and my lifestyle is boring. I'm newly insecure about my upward tonality, lack of pauses between words, poor body language etc. I feel like I'm not entertaining enough to satisfy any girl. Why in the world would a girl want dinner with me there? Moreover, facts of being a human make me feel like a loser. Examples: (A) that I have to work to support myself (B) I feel girls would be disgusted to know I'm attracted to them

I have enormous anxiety. People say my face is always scrunched up from it and I look uncomfortable in my own skin. I have problems with eye contact (I'm OCD about it) and make weird faces when looking at someone's eyes. I worry about creeping people out.

I've started meditation, improved at it, and gone on retreat. I enjoy it, but any calm it produces is short-lived and instantly destroyed by any test. E.g. I meditated and got really calm before my first date, but I was a nervous wreck once it started. I previously suffered severe hypochondria. In retrospect, it's incredible to me I endured some of those episodes and the accompanying ER visits without seeking a shrink (which I still haven't done). Though fortunately, I slipped out of it (I think meditation helped) and it's been a couple years since an episode of hypochondria.

I am currently in-between jobs, working on a short-term project. I expect to be elsewhere very soon. So I can't really build a social circle, or commit to anything (gym, class etc.). I've always had friends, some awesome people, but we they stay in. I've never been able to build the type of outgoing lifestyle I want. I'm uncomfortable at a bar/club and just don't do much exciting stuff. I've always wished to find a lifestyle designer who can force me to do cool stuff all the time.

My short-term project is in a suburb. Even if I were motivated enough to do cold-approach pickup, it can't in a suburb like this. It's cold outside. Dating options seem limited; I don't drink, which probably limits them more. I'm too insecure to dance. I've sought lessons, but never been able to learn.

There are people close to me who have anxiety/anger/depression. I'm starting to recognize this as causing a lot of my problems. I've noticed in our discussions that they are the ones whose voices raise, not me. Yet I don't know how to endure their aggressive, pained tones, without letting it get me down and making me feel I'm worth less. Acknowleding this is uncomfortable as I don't want to blame other people for my inadequecies.

I'm just starting to recognize as meriting professional help (A) this inability to open to women, (B) my anxiety, and (C) my low self-esteem. Though I suspect many psychologists are ineffective. I think my lack of a romantic relationship is driving the other problems I have (anxiety, hypochondria etc.).

Things I've noticed hold me back
1. I went to a very selective college. I was always around smart people so I felt dumb. Whenever I went home for a break, I realized my perspective was warped. Another example, at college, I was around young/fit people so I felt unfit. Again, when I left college, I realized that was crazy. I blame a lot of my mental issues on lacking perspective.
2. Not understanding time. This week, I was amazed to realize that this PUA thing has been going on for...years! I think I've suffered from simply not keeping track of time and thus letting life pass me by.

Positives about myself
1. I've done extremely well academically
2. I have awesome friends I respect enormously, though they're scattered throughout the country
3. I am deeply curious and interested in everything. I read a couple books a week
4. I'm into self-improvement. I exercise, go to self-development seminars etc.

QUESTIONS:

1.
Any way to force myself to act regularly? I've asked people close to me to hold me accountable. We even set up schemes where we trade collateral. But it never gets enforced. No friend ever asked me to name my crush and then forced me to ask her out (or explained what asking her out meant). As silly as that I sounds, I needed that and still do. Analagy, I have plenty of people cheering me on to jump off the diving board but I'm too scared. I need someone to push me in.
Note: "just do it" doesn't work. I (and countless others in this community) simply need a boost..

2.
What lifestyle designer do I get?

3.
Any thoughts on seeking a therapist to overcome anxiety, self-esteem etc. I

Thank you.

Author:	provideall53 [ Sat Feb 27, 2016 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:	My story in pua + ?s
A full bio of myself is below. It's a cautionary tale with a few questions. My thanks for any feedback. BIO: I'm 24. At 20, I discovered the pua community. At 21, I did my first approach. Consumed tons of theory. At 23, I did my second approach. That was the drill. Consuming theory without applying it. I've spent thousands of hours watching videos and reading books (attraction, anxiety, meditation etc.). Frankly, I know I'm not alone. My friends are largely from the pua community. With my wings, I went to bars, parties etc. to get comfortable talking to women (though I was always too afraid to approach). I know RSD says you have to approach so not blaming anyone. I've come to regard all that cold approach (or rather trying to work up the courage to cold approach) as, for me, an avoidance mechanism. I could feel like a maverick while never once asking out a girl or going on a date. A couple weeks ago, I did my first date ever, using tinder. Girls have told me I'm good-looking. I'm insecure, particularly about my extra 10 lbs I can never lose and my hair that's starting to thin. During college, simply telling a girl what school i went to would often make her invite me to her dorm. This freaked me out, and I always backed away immediately. Even a girl holding my hand was enough to make me panic that I'd blow it and yank away. I grew up with the idea that sex is wrong, I shouldn't seek it, and girls would be disgusted to know I do. Since then, I've been told 100s of times I'm wrong. But my original idea is ingrained intuition. Insecurities: my low self-esteem, mentally weakness, ugly, and my lifestyle is boring. I'm newly insecure about my upward tonality, lack of pauses between words, poor body language etc. I feel like I'm not entertaining enough to satisfy any girl. Why in the world would a girl want dinner with me there? Moreover, facts of being a human make me feel like a loser. Examples: (A) that I have to work to support myself (B) I feel girls would be disgusted to know I'm attracted to them I have enormous anxiety. People say my face is always scrunched up from it and I look uncomfortable in my own skin. I have problems with eye contact (I'm OCD about it) and make weird faces when looking at someone's eyes. I worry about creeping people out. I've started meditation, improved at it, and gone on retreat. I enjoy it, but any calm it produces is short-lived and instantly destroyed by any test. E.g. I meditated and got really calm before my first date, but I was a nervous wreck once it started. I previously suffered severe hypochondria. In retrospect, it's incredible to me I endured some of those episodes and the accompanying ER visits without seeking a shrink (which I still haven't done). Though fortunately, I slipped out of it (I think meditation helped) and it's been a couple years since an episode of hypochondria. I am currently in-between jobs, working on a short-term project. I expect to be elsewhere very soon. So I can't really build a social circle, or commit to anything (gym, class etc.). I've always had friends, some awesome people, but we they stay in. I've never been able to build the type of outgoing lifestyle I want. I'm uncomfortable at a bar/club and just don't do much exciting stuff. I've always wished to find a lifestyle designer who can force me to do cool stuff all the time. My short-term project is in a suburb. Even if I were motivated enough to do cold-approach pickup, it can't in a suburb like this. It's cold outside. Dating options seem limited; I don't drink, which probably limits them more. I'm too insecure to dance. I've sought lessons, but never been able to learn. There are people close to me who have anxiety/anger/depression. I'm starting to recognize this as causing a lot of my problems. I've noticed in our discussions that they are the ones whose voices raise, not me. Yet I don't know how to endure their aggressive, pained tones, without letting it get me down and making me feel I'm worth less. Acknowleding this is uncomfortable as I don't want to blame other people for my inadequecies. I'm just starting to recognize as meriting professional help (A) this inability to open to women, (B) my anxiety, and (C) my low self-esteem. Though I suspect many psychologists are ineffective. I think my lack of a romantic relationship is driving the other problems I have (anxiety, hypochondria etc.). Things I've noticed hold me back 1. I went to a very selective college. I was always around smart people so I felt dumb. Whenever I went home for a break, I realized my perspective was warped. Another example, at college, I was around young/fit people so I felt unfit. Again, when I left college, I realized that was crazy. I blame a lot of my mental issues on lacking perspective. 2. Not understanding time. This week, I was amazed to realize that this PUA thing has been going on for...years! I think I've suffered from simply not keeping track of time and thus letting life pass me by. Positives about myself 1. I've done extremely well academically 2. I have awesome friends I respect enormously, though they're scattered throughout the country 3. I am deeply curious and interested in everything. I read a couple books a week 4. I'm into self-improvement. I exercise, go to self-development seminars etc. QUESTIONS: 1. Any way to force myself to act regularly? I've asked people close to me to hold me accountable. We even set up schemes where we trade collateral. But it never gets enforced. No friend ever asked me to name my crush and then forced me to ask her out (or explained what asking her out meant). As silly as that I sounds, I needed that and still do. Analagy, I have plenty of people cheering me on to jump off the diving board but I'm too scared. I need someone to push me in. Note: "just do it" doesn't work. I (and countless others in this community) simply need a boost.. 2. What lifestyle designer do I get? 3. Any thoughts on seeking a therapist to overcome anxiety, self-esteem etc. I Thank you.

Author:	n2thevoid [ Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: My story in pua + ?s
Quote: A full bio of myself is below. It's a cautionary tale with a few questions. My thanks for any feedback. BIO: I'm 24. At 20, I discovered the pua community. At 21, I did my first approach. Consumed tons of theory. At 23, I did my second approach. That was the drill. Consuming theory without applying it. I've spent thousands of hours watching videos and reading books (attraction, anxiety, meditation etc.). Frankly, I know I'm not alone. My friends are largely from the pua community. With my wings, I went to bars, parties etc. to get comfortable talking to women (though I was always too afraid to approach). I know RSD says you have to approach so not blaming anyone. I'd change that "have to" to a "I'd like to". Altering the language we use with ourselves, though seemingly insignificant, can have a profound way of shaping how we approach things. "Have to" (threat), vs "Would like to" (challenge). I've come to regard all that cold approach (or rather trying to work up the courage to cold approach) as, for me, an avoidance mechanism. I could feel like a maverick while never once asking out a girl or going on a date. A couple weeks ago, I did my first date ever, using tinder. "Working up the courage" is a bit of misdirection because it often entices us to focus on the fear rather than giving space to fear and acting in spite of it. Girls have told me I'm good-looking. I'm insecure, particularly about my extra 10 lbs I can never lose and my hair that's starting to thin. During college, simply telling a girl what school i went to would often make her invite me to her dorm. This freaked me out, and I always backed away immediately. Even a girl holding my hand was enough to make me panic that I'd blow it and yank away. I grew up with the idea that sex is wrong, I shouldn't seek it, and girls would be disgusted to know I do. Since then, I've been told 100s of times I'm wrong. But my original idea is ingrained intuition. I'm wondering you must feel a great deal of shame around women; shame in pursuing them ("sex is wrong"), and shame in communication with them ("they're disgusted in knowing you want sex"). You got "SHOULDED" all over you. Bet you feel a lot of guilt as well, helpless too not knowing exactly how to get rid of this intuition/belief of yours. Insecurities: my low self-esteem, mentally weakness, ugly, and my lifestyle is boring. I'm newly insecure about my upward tonality, lack of pauses between words, poor body language etc. I feel like I'm not entertaining enough to satisfy any girl. Why in the world would a girl want dinner with me there? Moreover, facts of being a human make me feel like a loser. Examples: (A) that I have to work to support myself (B) I feel girls would be disgusted to know I'm attracted to them You're really picking yourself apart, placing a lot of burden on you. Thought of "I am not enough" is bleeding through your declarative statements about yourself. I have enormous anxiety. People say my face is always scrunched up from it and I look uncomfortable in my own skin. I have problems with eye contact (I'm OCD about it) and make weird faces when looking at someone's eyes. I worry about creeping people out. You feel out-of-place and awkward, lots of worry about what others may or may not be thinking about you. I've started meditation, improved at it, and gone on retreat. I enjoy it, but any calm it produces is short-lived and instantly destroyed by any test. E.g. I meditated and got really calm before my first date, but I was a nervous wreck once it started. I previously suffered severe hypochondria. In retrospect, it's incredible to me I endured some of those episodes and the accompanying ER visits without seeking a shrink (which I still haven't done). Though fortunately, I slipped out of it (I think meditation helped) and it's been a couple years since an episode of hypochondria. Good for you. Meditation isn't easy especially for most 24 year olds (it requires sitting with yourself and really calming the mind which is a challenge at any age). Ever thought about some sort of Mindfulness meditation? The difference would be you're focused more on what's happening internally, and observing whats going on within your mind rather than on breath or something external. I am currently in-between jobs, working on a short-term project. I expect to be elsewhere very soon. So I can't really build a social circle, or commit to anything (gym, class etc.). I've always had friends, some awesome people, but we they stay in. I've never been able to build the type of outgoing lifestyle I want. I'm uncomfortable at a bar/club and just don't do much exciting stuff. I've always wished to find a lifestyle designer who can force me to do cool stuff all the time. My short-term project is in a suburb. Even if I were motivated enough to do cold-approach pickup, it can't in a suburb like this. It's cold outside. Dating options seem limited; I don't drink, which probably limits them more. I'm too insecure to dance. I've sought lessons, but never been able to learn. There are people close to me who have anxiety/anger/depression. I'm starting to recognize this as causing a lot of my problems. I've noticed in our discussions that they are the ones whose voices raise, not me. Yet I don't know how to endure their aggressive, pained tones, without letting it get me down and making me feel I'm worth less. Acknowleding this is uncomfortable as I don't want to blame other people for my inadequacies. I urge you to keep the focus on you, rather than what others are or aren't doing TO YOU. This will help you get out of the muck as you'll regain some semblance of control over your life in doing so. I'm just starting to recognize as meriting professional help (A) this inability to open to women, (B) my anxiety, and (C) my low self-esteem. Though I suspect many psychologists are ineffective. I think my lack of a romantic relationship is driving the other problems I have (anxiety, hypochondria etc.). Might be a good idea to explore that avenue. That's what free consultations are for (most clinicians offer this) to find a right fit, less so for free counselling. A romantic relationship isn't the crux of your issues, it sounds more like some core beliefs that can be explored some more, and choosing to seek alternate beliefs. You may benefit from something cognitive based such as REBT as it does a great job in helping people identify unhealthy beliefs and changing them to more helpful ones. Things I've noticed hold me back 1. I went to a very selective college. I was always around smart people so I felt dumb. Whenever I went home for a break, I realized my perspective was warped. Another example, at college, I was around young/fit people so I felt unfit. Again, when I left college, I realized that was crazy. I blame a lot of my mental issues on lacking perspective. 2. Not understanding time. This week, I was amazed to realize that this PUA thing has been going on for...years! I think I've suffered from simply not keeping track of time and thus letting life pass me by. Positives about myself 1. I've done extremely well academically 2. I have awesome friends I respect enormously, though they're scattered throughout the country 3. I am deeply curious and interested in everything. I read a couple books a week 4. I'm into self-improvement. I exercise, go to self-development seminars etc. QUESTIONS: 1. Any way to force myself to act regularly? I've asked people close to me to hold me accountable. We even set up schemes where we trade collateral. But it never gets enforced. No friend ever asked me to name my crush and then forced me to ask her out (or explained what asking her out meant). As silly as that I sounds, I needed that and still do. Analagy, I have plenty of people cheering me on to jump off the diving board but I'm too scared. I need someone to push me in. Note: "just do it" doesn't work. I (and countless others in this community) simply need a boost.. Having others hold you accountable can sometimes do more harm than good. If, for example, you slip-up it may trigger shame knowing another is holding watch over you. Something to consider. Opening up "fear" and really looking at it may be a worthy endeavour for you. In meditation slang you can simply create space for fear, allow it in and decide to exist in spite of it. 2. What lifestyle designer do I get? Dont know what this is 3. Any thoughts on seeking a therapist to overcome anxiety, self-esteem etc. I Yes. Thank you. So to sum up, focusing on Shame and Fear ; the core belief behind both through REBT, for example, and continuing with your meditation, possibly exploring Focusing Technique by Gendlin may prove beneficial if at least worth a try. Through an REBT (employs what's called the ABCDE model) lens whats happening with the Shame piece is: A = Activating event B = Belief system C = Emotional Consequences of A and B D = Disputing irrational thoughts and beliefs. E = Cognitive and Emotional effects of revised beliefs Activating event ["A"] - you see a woman you're attracted to > Belief "Sex is shameful" >Consequence (of Belief) [C] ashamed, dread, scared, resentful, remorseful etc.. >Disputing belief [D] (might need a therapist to help you with this part) disputing it usually involves some sort of evidence that puts the lie to the Belief so for example exploring your parents attitudes about sex and how that's affected them, how sexuality is one of our primary driving forces and attraction as being absolutely necessary for it (through a biological or evolutionary lens) etc. > Effect of new belief [E] so venturing out into the world with that new belief/frame and testing it out in vivo like a scientist would (sort of faking it till you become it). In some sense PUA tries to use REBT (actually Ellis, the pioneer of this therapy created it to become more successful with women - one could argue he was an early PU even!). ^^^note that this process above people on this forum do intuitively by learning new frames (think of "Frame" as a synonym for "Belief") on women's behavior (which may or may not be accurate) and as a result can have an affect on their behavior. Some links to learn about these two approaches: REBT ('3 minute' version) http://www.threeminutetherapy.com/rebt.html Further your understanding of REBT go here http://www.intropsych.com/ch13_therapie ... monic.html Focusing Technique (Gendlin's technique) https://www.focusing.org/gendlin/docs/gol_2234.html

Author:	provideall53 [ Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: My story in pua + ?s
I cannot thank you enough for the post. From start to finish. The past several hours, I've been reading about REBT and trying to personalize it. Do you have any suggestions of books or youtube channels for deep diving into the different psychology techniques? "That's what free consultations are for (most clinicians offer this)." Do you have any advice on finding free ones with qualified people? I appreciate your suggestion on Mindfulness. I recently subscribed to Headpsace "Opening up "fear" and really looking at it may be a worthy endeavour for you." Curious what sort of meditation regimen you'd suggest? Metta? A particular guided meditation? Quote: Quote: Altering the language we use with ourselves, though seemingly insignificant, can have a profound way of shaping how we approach things. "Have to" (threat), vs "Would like to" (challenge).[/color] I've been meaning to create my own substitutes for PUA terms. Any suggestions? Again, thank you. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the tips. Of particular interest: Approach Anxiety Approach: Negging Open Pickup Shit Test

Author:	n2thevoid [ Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: My story in pua + ?s
Quote: I cannot thank you enough for the post. From start to finish. The past several hours, I've been reading about REBT and trying to personalize it. Do you have any suggestions of books or youtube channels for deep diving into the different psychology techniques? "That's what free consultations are for (most clinicians offer this)." Do you have any advice on finding free ones with qualified people? I appreciate your suggestion on Mindfulness. I recently subscribed to Headpsace "Opening up "fear" and really looking at it may be a worthy endeavour for you." Curious what sort of meditation regimen you'd suggest? Metta? A particular guided meditation? Quote: Quote: Altering the language we use with ourselves, though seemingly insignificant, can have a profound way of shaping how we approach things. "Have to" (threat), vs "Would like to" (challenge).[/color] I've been meaning to create my own substitutes for PUA terms. Any suggestions? Again, thank you. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the tips. Of particular interest: Approach Anxiety Approach: Negging Open Pickup Shit Test I'm inclined to suggest you stick to mindfulness for now (there are a lot of different mindfulness guided meditations on youtube) instead of throw a whole bunch of approaches at you. I think that can be counterproductive, and I am getting the sense you're already way up in your head. I wouldn't get caught-up in PUA jargon I don't see how it will contribute any to your wellbeing and growth.

Author:	provideall53 [ Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: My story in pua + ?s
I hear you. My concern though is that I'm putting off the problem if I'm not out talking to women. I've consumed so much theory, done meditation etc. in part to avoid facing my real fear.

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My story in pua + ?s https://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=195336	Page 1 of 1

Author:	n2thevoid [ Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: My story in pua + ?s
Quote: I hear you. My concern though is that I'm putting off the problem if I'm not out talking to women. I've consumed so much theory, done meditation etc. in part to avoid facing my real fear. So you're worried that if you're not out practicing these methods you're reading about, you won't succeed with women. I m getting the sense that you believe that by having a woman it would resolve a lot of problems you're faced with.

Author:	provideall53 [ Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: My story in pua + ?s
Definitely sounds wrong. Perhaps I intuitively overvalue the effect it would have on me. Though I do think it would be a healthy thing.

Author:	n2thevoid [ Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: My story in pua + ?s
Quote: Definitely sounds wrong. Perhaps I intuitively overvalue the effect it would have on me. Though I do think it would be a healthy thing. You think a lot.

Author:	R.C [ Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: My story in pua + ?s
Quote: Be congruent Understand that women won’t make you happy. A relationship won’t make you happy and having 6 different fuck buddies won’t make you happy. You can’t drink you problems away and you sure as hell can’t fuck them away either. Every man has 3 main aspects to his life. Career, social life, dating life. Work on all of them, not just one. Self-improve. We live in a society where people are socially conditioned to be ordinary, to not take chances and to play it safe. Fuck that. Quit your job if it’s shit and start doing what you love. Meet people and form great friendships. Talk to that attractive woman regardless of the fact that you’re wearing your gym equipment. I know it’s easier said than done, but a life of mediocrity is a big price to pay. No one on their death bed will ever say: "I wish I did less of what I loved." If you want to be an attractive man you have to live an attractive life. And fortunately, that’s entirely up to you. The more confident you become in who you are, the more rewarding your relationships with the people around you will be. Men and women. Happiness is something you build on your own and then chose who you want to share it with. It’s not something you leech off of whoever gives you the time of day. That's from my guide. OP, a woman/relationship will not solve your issues. I don't particularly think you have many more than the average person, you simply seem to be very aware of them, which in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing. On topic though, a relationship will probably hurt you more than it would help. For the sole reason that your fears of inadequacy will turn it into a self-fulfilling prophecy of failure, which will only end up in you aggravating the degree in which you blame yourself. You're right to some level. You need a thick skin, but at the same time you have to be able to distinguish whether being overly sensitive is in question, or when the other person/situation is out of bounds. You can't control everything, and that's fine. If reading is your thing, have a glance at Models by Mark Manson. If there's once thing you take from his book let it be the part I also endorse in my quote. For a qualitative life you need to have all 3 major aspects in order. That why a woman will not be an instacure for you. And I know it feels excruciatingly hard most of the time, but the basic principle of "just do it" is incredibly valuable. Like n2 said, being fearful is common. Acting in spite of it is what successful people form a habit of doing, and what complacent people never get around. There's no shortcuts. The only way you can recondition yourself is through referential experience. When your first high quality girl will urge you to treat her like a slut in the bedroom - that's when your intrinsic belief of women being disgusted by the idea of you wanting sex will vanish. Here's a fun little challenge for you though. Make it a point to make eye contact with every single person you walk past on the street. And don't break until they do. Every single person. Don't care if it's a guy, an attractive woman, and old lady. Whatever. Trust me, it will be very difficult at first. It will be even more awkward when their autopilot response will be to say "Hi", thinking they know you. Say hi back and move on. Do it everyday. You will fail. You will instinctively look away at first, you won't be able to control it. However it won't be long before you do. Also make it a point to look people in the eye when you talk to them. At the same time, pro-actively keep a good posture. Check yourself in reflections as you walk past windows or whatever. Keep a straight back. Exercise. Join a gym. Don't jog, don't run, don't do 10 pushups every morning. That does not qualify as exercise, it doesn't work, it never has and it never will. You have to pick heavy things up, put them down, and pick them up again. This is known as weight lifting. I don't care if your goal is to gain weight, lose weight, build muscle or just get into shape. Lifting weights is the way to do it. Not being able to lose those 10 lbs means you have previously been fucking up either your work-outs, or your diet, or the most likely case - both. However, you're an exceeding academic, so it will take you minimal effort to learn the basics of nutrition and create a diet around that. Don't neglect it, 70% of the work in shaping a body is done in the kitchen. Weigh in each Monday. Use a caloric tracking tool to keep a record. Also, most gyms open at 6:00 AM. "Not being able to fit" working out in your schedule is not an acceptable nor valid excuse. PM me if you need help on any of this, we'll figure it out together.

Author:	provideall53 [ Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: My story in pua + ?s
Extremely helpful post. I went through it carefully. I will try the eye activity and let you know how it goes. appreciate the support. I just got the audiobook for Models. I'm curious why you prize weightlifting over cardio? Thank you as well for the offer to pm. I'll take you up. Thanks again.

Author:	n2thevoid [ Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: My story in pua + ?s
Quote: Extremely helpful post. I went through it carefully. I will try the eye activity and let you know how it goes. appreciate the support. I just got the audiobook for Models. I'm curious why you prize weightlifting over cardio? Thank you as well for the offer to pm. I'll take you up. Thanks again. I'll 2nd Models, Mark Manson is pretty legit, he has some great articles on his website too such as the one on vulnerability (a topic not discussed enough with guys). Weightlifting and cardio are both important, been doing both for 20+ years. Cardio acts as an anti-depressant, strengthens the heart, helps the brain (releases endorphins, reduces stress hormones, the benefits are many), weightlifting will help build muscle. Honestly I feel far better doing cardio than having an intense weight session. I just came home from a 2.5 hour workout, 2 hours weights, 20 minutes cardio (aerobic HIIT on the treadmill - best for stimulating muscle growth while burning fat).

Author:	R.C [ Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: My story in pua + ?s
Cardio is fine if you feel like it. To oversimplify it a bit, your body needs a certain daily caloric intake to maintain weight. Let's say that's 1500 calories daily. These calories are composed of 3 macro nutrients. Protein (of which 1 gram equals 4 calories), Fat (of which 1 gram equals 9 calories), and Carbohydrate (of which 1 gram again equals 4 calories). It's important to keep somewhat of a balance between the three. For example 35% of your calories coming from Protein, another 35% from Carbs and the remaining 30% from Fats. For our 1500 example, that would be about 132g of P, 132g of C and 50g of F. You'll find different variations of this over the net but after testing around, this is my formula for success. Anyway, the point is, in order to lose weight, you need to eat less than your caloric maintenance needs (aka 1500). 20% less is a healthy and solid plan. So if you eat 1200, you will loose weight overtime. If you eat 1800, you will gain weight overtime. Why is cardio "good"? It's good because if you overstep that 1200 caloric bound, and eat say 1700 today, doing some kind of HIIT or whatever will burn 300-400 of those depending on time and intensity, so you're back down to that initial 1200 and all's good. And yeah, while I'm not a fan of cardio, n2 is right, you do feel great after it. I prioritize weight lifting because your goal is to lose 10 lbs. The best way to stimulate muscle growth is through lifting, and you can build muscle even on a caloric deficit if you're a beginner. So yes, you could lose 10 lbs either way. Except via lifting you actually build a decent amount of muscle too, so you won't end up looking "skinny fat". Plus there are a lot of psychological and physical benefits that derive from that too. Point is, you should always lift. Do cardio too if you want/enjoy it, but if it comes down between missing out on cardio or lifting, cardio is the one that should always be sacrificed. PS: You can determine your daily caloric maintenance by formulas you can find online. They're not 100% accurate since there are a lot of variables that can't really be measured, but it's a good guideline. Find out yours, respect it for a week or two and see the results. If your weight doesn't go either up or down too much, you'll have a good idea. Then you can form a diet, join a gym and preferably find a good beginner program online (Babylover's Starting Strength is my recommendation) or hire a PT.

Author:	Jay (Majik) [ Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: My story in pua + ?s
Quote: A full bio of myself is below. It's a cautionary tale with a few questions. My thanks for any feedback. BIO: I'm 24. At 20, I discovered the pua community. At 21, I did my first approach. Consumed tons of theory. At 23, I did my second approach. That was the drill. Consuming theory without applying it. I've spent thousands of hours watching videos and reading books (attraction, anxiety, meditation etc.). Frankly, I know I'm not alone. My friends are largely from the pua community. With my wings, I went to bars, parties etc. to get comfortable talking to women (though I was always too afraid to approach). I know RSD says you have to approach so not blaming anyone. I've come to regard all that cold approach (or rather trying to work up the courage to cold approach) as, for me, an avoidance mechanism. I could feel like a maverick while never once asking out a girl or going on a date. A couple weeks ago, I did my first date ever, using tinder. Girls have told me I'm good-looking. I'm insecure, particularly about my extra 10 lbs I can never lose and my hair that's starting to thin. During college, simply telling a girl what school i went to would often make her invite me to her dorm. This freaked me out, and I always backed away immediately. Even a girl holding my hand was enough to make me panic that I'd blow it and yank away. I grew up with the idea that sex is wrong, I shouldn't seek it, and girls would be disgusted to know I do. Since then, I've been told 100s of times I'm wrong. But my original idea is ingrained intuition. Insecurities: my low self-esteem, mentally weakness, ugly, and my lifestyle is boring. I'm newly insecure about my upward tonality, lack of pauses between words, poor body language etc. I feel like I'm not entertaining enough to satisfy any girl. Why in the world would a girl want dinner with me there? Moreover, facts of being a human make me feel like a loser. Examples: (A) that I have to work to support myself (B) I feel girls would be disgusted to know I'm attracted to them I have enormous anxiety. People say my face is always scrunched up from it and I look uncomfortable in my own skin. I have problems with eye contact (I'm OCD about it) and make weird faces when looking at someone's eyes. I worry about creeping people out. I've started meditation, improved at it, and gone on retreat. I enjoy it, but any calm it produces is short-lived and instantly destroyed by any test. E.g. I meditated and got really calm before my first date, but I was a nervous wreck once it started. I previously suffered severe hypochondria. In retrospect, it's incredible to me I endured some of those episodes and the accompanying ER visits without seeking a shrink (which I still haven't done). Though fortunately, I slipped out of it (I think meditation helped) and it's been a couple years since an episode of hypochondria. I am currently in-between jobs, working on a short-term project. I expect to be elsewhere very soon. So I can't really build a social circle, or commit to anything (gym, class etc.). I've always had friends, some awesome people, but we they stay in. I've never been able to build the type of outgoing lifestyle I want. I'm uncomfortable at a bar/club and just don't do much exciting stuff. I've always wished to find a lifestyle designer who can force me to do cool stuff all the time. My short-term project is in a suburb. Even if I were motivated enough to do cold-approach pickup, it can't in a suburb like this. It's cold outside. Dating options seem limited; I don't drink, which probably limits them more. I'm too insecure to dance. I've sought lessons, but never been able to learn. There are people close to me who have anxiety/anger/depression. I'm starting to recognize this as causing a lot of my problems. I've noticed in our discussions that they are the ones whose voices raise, not me. Yet I don't know how to endure their aggressive, pained tones, without letting it get me down and making me feel I'm worth less. Acknowleding this is uncomfortable as I don't want to blame other people for my inadequecies. I'm just starting to recognize as meriting professional help (A) this inability to open to women, (B) my anxiety, and (C) my low self-esteem. Though I suspect many psychologists are ineffective. I think my lack of a romantic relationship is driving the other problems I have (anxiety, hypochondria etc.). Things I've noticed hold me back 1. I went to a very selective college. I was always around smart people so I felt dumb. Whenever I went home for a break, I realized my perspective was warped. Another example, at college, I was around young/fit people so I felt unfit. Again, when I left college, I realized that was crazy. I blame a lot of my mental issues on lacking perspective. 2. Not understanding time. This week, I was amazed to realize that this PUA thing has been going on for...years! I think I've suffered from simply not keeping track of time and thus letting life pass me by. Positives about myself 1. I've done extremely well academically 2. I have awesome friends I respect enormously, though they're scattered throughout the country 3. I am deeply curious and interested in everything. I read a couple books a week 4. I'm into self-improvement. I exercise, go to self-development seminars etc. QUESTIONS: 1. Any way to force myself to act regularly? I've asked people close to me to hold me accountable. We even set up schemes where we trade collateral. But it never gets enforced. No friend ever asked me to name my crush and then forced me to ask her out (or explained what asking her out meant). As silly as that I sounds, I needed that and still do. Analagy, I have plenty of people cheering me on to jump off the diving board but I'm too scared. I need someone to push me in. Note: "just do it" doesn't work. I (and countless others in this community) simply need a boost.. 2. What lifestyle designer do I get? 3. Any thoughts on seeking a therapist to overcome anxiety, self-esteem etc. I Thank you. This "lifestyle designer" thing you're looking for is pretty much what I do. You seem like you're open enough where you won't hide anything but honestly man, you also seem like you're banking a little too much on someone to take care of your lifestyle problem for you. This "crazy" lifestyle you want isn't really for everyone. Last weekend, I took a potential client out who works out at my gym. My assistant "stole" a girl from him. (The girl was never really interested in the kid. She said flat out to my assistant "I want to fuck you." So he never stole shit.) The kid left early with his tail between his legs and a little tear in his eyes. He won't make eye contact with me at the gym now. He's the type of guy who I'm reeling to when I say it's not for everyone. I don't know you. But based on your post, there are quite a few red flags that come up. Not to be a dick, but you seem like a bit of a Momma's boy. Not suggesting you're going to leave a bar crying... But unless you're willing to make serious changes, (not rely on someone else to do it for you) you're going to be one of those guys who never really "gets it" cause you stuck with what mom told you. There's a ferocious world out there that you have no idea exists.

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