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| "winning the conversation" https://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=182103 |
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| Author: | chappelle [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | "winning the conversation" |
So I just went to an NLP meetup, not sure if I really learned or did anything, but afterwards I was talking to a guy I have seen at some meetups and we started talking about a lot of stuff about socializing. It was obvious he was into pickup, but also very much socializing properly. We got into a long conversation about it, and it was mostly him. I was feeling perturbed at not being the one to talk a lot, as I feel this is how people get to know me, as I have often run into the "i dont know you" problem. Now, he said something that struck me as very odd, though I have run into it several times. He called it "winning the conversation" which meant being the person to whom other people are putting the most effort into talking to. I have heard of this before as "taking the masculine role in the conversation" and described as something else by severedblue and others. However, it makes no sense to me. I sometimes reach this point, and it just feels like its me getting nowhere. It feels like LOSING. 1) How do you built rapport, or attraction, or anything when you arent doing the talking? 2)If they are the ones doing the talking, then they have the chance to DHV, build attraction and everything else. Why would you want them to be the talker? 3)In fact, I was talking to this guy and an attractive girl at the same time, and because he was doing all the talking, he was getting all the attention and the girl wasnt feeling me any more! 4) If you arent the one building things by doing the talking, how is she ever going to feel anything enough to go home with you? Hell, I have certainly run into the "I dont know you" thing many times. 5) I have RARELY, maybe about 5% of the time, ever been interested in what women have to say. They just bore the shit out of me. Given the chance they dont talk about anything important or anything I wanna hear. So what am I supposed to do, waste all this time listening to something I dont wanna hear just for a girl to put me in the friend zone? |
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| Author: | Bud_Henry [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "winning the conversation" |
I preach this shit all the time, and most members of the community think I'm crazy. I've mentioned several times that it's completely possible to defer the leader role to somebody else but still call the shots. It's not about how much you say, but what and how. I've said before, I'm a natural introvert, but can be extroverted if I want to, but I don't always go out with the volume turned up to 10 and talking to everybody I pass. But, I'm a very opinionated s.o.b. and can't keep my mouth shut when I hear certain things. Essentially, what you're doing is hijacking a set, just like opening a mixed set with an opinion opener. Except, you're not asking a question, you're calling bullshit and making them defer to you for your opinion. Take a statement, and turn it into a philosophical conversation. By doing so, it allows the opportunity for DHV spikes. You'd be surprised what a simple "bullshit" can do. Try it. They'll usually ask "well, why do you say that". Congratulations, convo hijacked. Even a laugh and a headshake does the same thing; they're gonna wonder what's so funny. And when you give your response, you're more than likely going to give a personal account; a DHV story. If the girl just keeps on talking and won't shut up about things you don't care about, just make some sort of facial expression that shows disinterest or disapproval; you'll more than likely get a "what?". Take it from there. |
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| Author: | Hunter_Foxe [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "winning the conversation" |
It's very hard to present yourself as the "conversation winner" without seeking validation. It's much easier to not endulge the validation seeker. Who cares who wins the conversation? Just be the lone gunman, you do your own thing, by your own rules, and you don't need a posse of betas to laugh at all your jokes to make you feel special, because your sense of self-worth comes from you and only you. |
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| Author: | Bud_Henry [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "winning the conversation" |
It's not "winning" as in I'm right, you're wrong; it's more now I'm leading, you're following. And from there, now you can build on it. You have a legitimate conversation going on, and, you just created an opinion opener. Turn to the sets around or behind you and merge them together. Now instead of one, you've got 2,3,4, whatever. That 2 set of 8s or 9s that might've blown you out before are more likely disarmed now because you already have a woman with you. Pivot, move and merge. And if you have a wing with you, you just found him a girl too. And beginners and less confident guys I've gone out with feel a lot more comfortable approaching and opening that way. |
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| Author: | n2thevoid [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "winning the conversation" |
Anything "winning" is egoic. If you're comfortable and grounded within yourself, youlll just be you without fear of leading or winning anything. Far more amenable to winning over the respect and attention of others - best of all you aren't even trying to, it just happens wherever you go. |
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| Author: | Bud_Henry [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "winning the conversation" |
Don't take the term "winning" so literal. |
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| Author: | Hunter_Foxe [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "winning the conversation" |
Quote: Don't take the term "winning" so literal.
Use a different word.
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| Author: | Bud_Henry [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "winning the conversation" |
Quote: Quote: Don't take the term "winning" so literal.
Use a different word.I'd say it's more Frame Control. |
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| Author: | Hunter_Foxe [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "winning the conversation" |
I get the girls without feeling the need to dominate the group dynamics. I've been in some situations where girls have turned to me to get away from attention whore guys who need to be the centre of attention. You will get far better results by being more reticent and letting the girl speak and thus qualify herself / emotionally invest in you. |
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| Author: | Bud_Henry [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "winning the conversation" |
That's basically what I do a lot of the time. I'm just saying this one technique for certain situations. I don't do the same shit all the time; I adapt based on the situation. If I'm not out to game but later on something catches my eye and I see an opening, I jump on it. Pawns across the chessboard. |
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| Author: | n2thevoid [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "winning the conversation" |
There's something I find so glaring on this board that comes up daily which most of the guys on this board miss entirely. The whole notion of dominating, or LEADING the frame. Sure, leading can be attractive but that comes out of having self-confidence which comes out of having a strong sense of self. You aren't TRYING to lead, it's just natural and the confidence you exude which lays even deeper is what will attract (or intimidate) others. |
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| Author: | Bud_Henry [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "winning the conversation" |
Again, I'm just explaining how I personally do it. These are things I've done naturally, but I analyzed and pinpointed from previous interactions. It's like everything else, a suggestion and a guideline. |
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| Author: | oceanx [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "winning the conversation" |
The way I do it especially on a "date" is to always be extracting info from the girl; like the above poster said when they are talking to you they are simultaneously emotionally investing in you. So in the context of pickup/seduction you can be leading and listening at the same time. |
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| Author: | n2thevoid [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "winning the conversation" |
When you let a girl talk, you hear what she has to say there's so much information being freely given. Beyond that listen to what she's sub communicating (intonation of voice when talking about certain things - "I notice how passionate you are when you're talking about your art!" "Wow, when you talk about your relationship with your grandmother, its easy to see how deep that connection still is", her body language, facial expression etc). Beyond that empathy is massively attractive. Just hearing her and reflecting back what she's saying, listening to her experience as she tells you a story, very very attractive to women one of the biggest DHVs there is. A guy who talks a lot or is concerned with not talking a lot usually comes off as anxious, even worse as narcissistic and needing to monopolize interactions which is actually a very beta thing to do. Alpha recognizes he has something to learn from everyone, he's responsive and helps a person bring their best self forward. |
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