PUA Forum :: Friend zone, but not the usual crap. Need advice please

Please guys here I need help. I know that something can be done in this situation. So please spare me the "walk away the world is full of beautiful women".

The theme sounds old and old, but there's a twist here.
I am in love with a girl, and she put me into the friend zone. She says (and I feel it's true) that I'm the most important person of her life. I know she loves me too. But the token barrier is huge.

I'm 38,, arty and existentialist, and I've had quite few women in my life. Girls say I'm attractive, charming and interesting. Also I have a truckload of women friends (thanks to you!) so I really don't need another one. the last time I felt in love was 9 years ago. SO my being in love with her is no joke.

She's 23 and Italian (Italian women are Catholic and guilt-driven). And she put a HUGE token barrier "you are so important we're gonna to ruin everything being together/intimate"
She's even ATTRACTED BY ME and she finds me handsome!!! Only that every time things get physical (it's always she initiating contact) she pushed me away nervously, doing also some serious effort in rejecting me. I know you call it push and pull she's doing it on me and I do it oh her.
We got comfort, we got a massive vibe, we share a lot in common and we have a MASSIVE connection. We're also comfortable when we are extremely close.
There's everything but the sexual/relationship part. She only allows me (actually asks most of the time) to lick her feet. And she really enjoys it. Probably in her mind she thinks that is intimate but not THAT intimate.
I have been a fool, I met her and I thought she was so special that "i can be myself". WHAT A MISTAKE...
I even in a moment of despair told her my feelings. What a tragedy. But we recovered from that. She really "loves" me.
She's even JEALOUS!!! She can shag whoever she wants but when we're together she marks her territory. Like we were in holiday in Hungary. The only moment the whole holiday I approached a girl she run from behind, hugged me and bite my ear!!.

I love this woman like I loved just few women in my life. And trust me it's not because she's sexy. London is full of women hotter than her...
Also she suffers from low self esteem (clinically) so she's attracted by REAL jerks and retarded because she thinks this is what she deserves. I'm serious about this.

Please give me some specific advice!!! I've read/listend a lot of matierial, especially Swinggcat. Sure I haven't practiced a lot but I know all the basis. But because I'm such in love I struggle to control myself and the frame.

She's 23, she works as a stripper and she's quite troubled with drugs. She has a lot of men slobbering at her... she knows only partly her power. But she can also e humble. She doesn't use her power to obtain things, she's slutty but she's really honest and correct.
SHe doesn't have many female friends (maybe none) and even the "male friends" are always "male", never gay. Because she needs to be seductive.
Also I am that figure in her life that puts her out of trouble and give guidance.And every time she fucks up she gets back to me "you where right I'm so stubborn until I bang the head I don't learn the lesson".

In fact when I don't treat her like "me hard man you woman" she gets disappointed. A girls that is just a female friend would just be happy that I'm nice with her.

The last thing I say is that I'm her point of reference. Every time she needs advice or has a problem comes to me.

Alfonso

Author:	lisophorm [ Thu May 16, 2013 2:16 am ]
Post subject:	Friend zone, but not the usual crap. Need advice please
Please guys here I need help. I know that something can be done in this situation. So please spare me the "walk away the world is full of beautiful women". The theme sounds old and old, but there's a twist here. I am in love with a girl, and she put me into the friend zone. She says (and I feel it's true) that I'm the most important person of her life. I know she loves me too. But the token barrier is huge. I'm 38,, arty and existentialist, and I've had quite few women in my life. Girls say I'm attractive, charming and interesting. Also I have a truckload of women friends (thanks to you!) so I really don't need another one. the last time I felt in love was 9 years ago. SO my being in love with her is no joke. She's 23 and Italian (Italian women are Catholic and guilt-driven). And she put a HUGE token barrier "you are so important we're gonna to ruin everything being together/intimate" She's even ATTRACTED BY ME and she finds me handsome!!! Only that every time things get physical (it's always she initiating contact) she pushed me away nervously, doing also some serious effort in rejecting me. I know you call it push and pull she's doing it on me and I do it oh her. We got comfort, we got a massive vibe, we share a lot in common and we have a MASSIVE connection. We're also comfortable when we are extremely close. There's everything but the sexual/relationship part. She only allows me (actually asks most of the time) to lick her feet. And she really enjoys it. Probably in her mind she thinks that is intimate but not THAT intimate. I have been a fool, I met her and I thought she was so special that "i can be myself". WHAT A MISTAKE... I even in a moment of despair told her my feelings. What a tragedy. But we recovered from that. She really "loves" me. She's even JEALOUS!!! She can shag whoever she wants but when we're together she marks her territory. Like we were in holiday in Hungary. The only moment the whole holiday I approached a girl she run from behind, hugged me and bite my ear!!. I love this woman like I loved just few women in my life. And trust me it's not because she's sexy. London is full of women hotter than her... Also she suffers from low self esteem (clinically) so she's attracted by REAL jerks and retarded because she thinks this is what she deserves. I'm serious about this. Please give me some specific advice!!! I've read/listend a lot of matierial, especially Swinggcat. Sure I haven't practiced a lot but I know all the basis. But because I'm such in love I struggle to control myself and the frame. She's 23, she works as a stripper and she's quite troubled with drugs. She has a lot of men slobbering at her... she knows only partly her power. But she can also e humble. She doesn't use her power to obtain things, she's slutty but she's really honest and correct. SHe doesn't have many female friends (maybe none) and even the "male friends" are always "male", never gay. Because she needs to be seductive. Also I am that figure in her life that puts her out of trouble and give guidance.And every time she fucks up she gets back to me "you where right I'm so stubborn until I bang the head I don't learn the lesson". In fact when I don't treat her like "me hard man you woman" she gets disappointed. A girls that is just a female friend would just be happy that I'm nice with her. The last thing I say is that I'm her point of reference. Every time she needs advice or has a problem comes to me. Alfonso

Author:	Themagicalone [ Thu May 16, 2013 2:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Friend zone, but not the usual crap. Need advice please
Quote: Please guys here I need help. I know that something can be done in this situation. So please spare me the "walk away the world is full of beautiful women". The theme sounds old and old, but there's a twist here. I am in love with a girl, and she put me into the friend zone. She says (and I feel it's true) that I'm the most important person of her life. I know she loves me too. But the token barrier is huge. I'm 38,, arty and existentialist, and I've had quite few women in my life. Girls say I'm attractive, charming and interesting. Also I have a truckload of women friends (thanks to you!) so I really don't need another one. the last time I felt in love was 9 years ago. SO my being in love with her is no joke. She's 23 and Italian (Italian women are Catholic and guilt-driven). And she put a HUGE token barrier "you are so important we're gonna to ruin everything being together/intimate" She's even ATTRACTED BY ME and she finds me handsome!!! Only that every time things get physical (it's always she initiating contact) she pushed me away nervously, doing also some serious effort in rejecting me. I know you call it push and pull she's doing it on me and I do it oh her. We got comfort, we got a massive vibe, we share a lot in common and we have a MASSIVE connection. We're also comfortable when we are extremely close. There's everything but the sexual/relationship part. She only allows me (actually asks most of the time) to lick her feet. And she really enjoys it. Probably in her mind she thinks that is intimate but not THAT intimate. I have been a fool, I met her and I thought she was so special that "i can be myself". WHAT A MISTAKE... I even in a moment of despair told her my feelings. What a tragedy. But we recovered from that. She really "loves" me. She's even JEALOUS!!! She can shag whoever she wants but when we're together she marks her territory. Like we were in holiday in Hungary. The only moment the whole holiday I approached a girl she run from behind, hugged me and bite my ear!!. I love this woman like I loved just few women in my life. And trust me it's not because she's sexy. London is full of women hotter than her... Also she suffers from low self esteem (clinically) so she's attracted by REAL jerks and retarded because she thinks this is what she deserves. I'm serious about this. Please give me some specific advice!!! I've read/listend a lot of matierial, especially Swinggcat. Sure I haven't practiced a lot but I know all the basis. But because I'm such in love I struggle to control myself and the frame. She's 23, she works as a stripper and she's quite troubled with drugs. She has a lot of men slobbering at her... she knows only partly her power. But she can also e humble. She doesn't use her power to obtain things, she's slutty but she's really honest and correct. SHe doesn't have many female friends (maybe none) and even the "male friends" are always "male", never gay. Because she needs to be seductive. Also I am that figure in her life that puts her out of trouble and give guidance.And every time she fucks up she gets back to me "you where right I'm so stubborn until I bang the head I don't learn the lesson". In fact when I don't treat her like "me hard man you woman" she gets disappointed. A girls that is just a female friend would just be happy that I'm nice with her. The last thing I say is that I'm her point of reference. Every time she needs advice or has a problem comes to me. Alfonso

Author:	CharlesFinley [ Thu May 16, 2013 3:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Friend zone, but not the usual crap. Need advice please
There are several pros on this board and one of them should really chime in... You detailed your issue very well and it was well-written. You're in love with a drug-addicted, slutty (your words) stripper 15 yrs younger than you who won't be intimate with you but loves your advice and looks to you like a father figure................... Do you pay for her things as well? Do you buy her presents? You need to run - not walk - away from this woman. You're being used as an an emotional center (possibly a financial one, but you didn't touch on that really)... You've completely committed to a girl who likes things just the way they are because she has you completely wrapped around her finger and doesn't even have to put out. You cannot "fix" this girl. I'm sure that's what you're thinking... But you can't. You won't take this advice. You'll brush it off and say I'm nuts and "don't really get" the situation - and that's cool - it's your life. This will be a helluva lesson though.

Author:	zmbcm1 [ Thu May 16, 2013 4:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Friend zone, but not the usual crap. Need advice please
Not to sound like a troll, but dat dere is some FUCKED UP SHIT. I don't even know where I would begin if I was to pick it apart, but the foot licking and drug addiction would be near the top of the list. In congruence with advice above, you need to buy a pair of Nikes and get the fuck OUT of this girl's sight. Its not that there are a "ton of other beautiful women out there". Yes, there are. But even if this was the hottest girl on the planet, you'd be an idiot not to run from her. She's using you as an emotional tampon and giving you just enough to keep you around. What boggles my mind is how you would want a drug addicted stripper for any kind of a romantic relationship in the first place... Do you have childhood trauma? PS. Charles Finley summed everything up masterfully. You're not going to take our advice.

Author:	n2thevoid [ Thu May 16, 2013 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Friend zone, but not the usual crap. Need advice please
Basically she's a slut with morals, is what you're saying...

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Author:	zmbcm1 [ Thu May 16, 2013 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Friend zone, but not the usual crap. Need advice please
Quote: Basically she's a slut with morals, is what you're saying... It just hit me, this entire relationship has CODEPENDENT tatooed on its forehead. He has a need to be the "rescuer" and a daddy figure, and she needs someone to always be there for her, rescuing her. Codependent relationships are bad news bears. However, there's nothing we can do to fix it. Guarantee you 100% that he won't take any of our advice.

Author:	n2thevoid [ Thu May 16, 2013 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Friend zone, but not the usual crap. Need advice please
Quote: Quote: Basically she's a slut with morals, is what you're saying... It just hit me, this entire relationship has CODEPENDENT tatooed on its forehead. He has a need to be the "rescuer" and a daddy figure, and she needs someone to always be there for her, rescuing her. Codependent relationships are bad news bears. However, there's nothing we can do to fix it. Guarantee you 100% that he won't take any of our advice. Who's to say whether its "bad news bears" or not. It may not be something you, I, or even the poster himself wants, but these modes of being (e.g., playing a parental or child figure in a relationship) are introjected into the psyche as children and are therefore quite entrenched. That said, we ought to be careful when using labels, as they are more often than not oversimplifications of 'what is'. None of us get through childhood 'unscathed', it is rather how we deal with life's effects that determines (or lays the blueprint) to how we will operate as adults. Co-dependency comes in various forms and the behaviors are manifested in various, often unique ways. To some extent you may be right, there is nothing to fix until the person goes reaches some level of self-reflection where upon they come to the realization that the current approach (belief) is no longer functional, or 'adaptive' for them. Co-dependent relationships do happen, more often than not, in fact in Western culture I dare say they are more the norm than any other type of relationship. I experience them still today in relationships I am in, however I am more able to identity when that attachment fear is kicking-in and self-regulate (identity the thought, emotion, and/or feeling and either change OR accept that it is there without over-identification to it). With specific reference to the poster's situation, its very easy to sit outside and label the relationship for what it appears to be - maybe its helpful, maybe not; that will be determined by the poster's action. And yea, all of us have been there where we know we aren't in a healthy relationship and can do a cost-benefit analysis of reasons to leave (intellectualize or rationalizations), but this does not address the emotional connections we may have, which ultimately may trump all the logic in the world that "should" be enough for us to run, not walk away from situations which adversely affect our wellbeing. I hypothesize that when we become disconnected from our bodies (our intuition, our 'heart', "soul" whatever you choose to call it - the non-thinking FEELING part of who we are) a lot of dysfunction and odd behavior (that we even notice as odd) begins to manifest. You will see it with some of the members on this board where they ruminate over and over and over about the same relationship, the same woman like an old gramophone record frustrating other members who see the solution to their issue as being so obvious. In such situations we get very 'heady' (stuck in our heads) and ever-more disconnected from our bodies; we take all the emotion we are feeling in our bodies and offload it to our brains and this sometimes creates massive bottlenecking (not unlike a CPU being overwhelmed with too many functions at one specific time). The brain quite simply cant wade through all that emotional stuffs all at once, and as a consequence we get stuck in all these feedback loops (the rumination/obsessive thinking process) which does not lead us any closer to a result or solution. I hope for the posters sake reading some of these posts helps him reflect somewhat on the situation and uses this situation as an opportunity for growth and self-discovery - and really, you can't put any price on that.

Author:	Jay (Majik) [ Thu May 16, 2013 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Friend zone, but not the usual crap. Need advice please
I'll ask you this... why would you want someone like that in your life? Her low self-esteem is just going to bring you down. Sounds like she needs to fix herself and her own thoughts before she can even consider being with a guy who is worth anything... I had a girl like this and I really just gave up on her being with me. She's lazy, she doesn't feel good about herself, and she doesn't want anything more in her life than what she has.... Align yourself with people who will help make your life BETTER... Not bring you down.

Author:	Crypto [ Thu May 16, 2013 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Friend zone, but not the usual crap. Need advice please
Ok, Tough Love time! You wrote all of the BullShit above all sincere and punk ass like a little girl to say. "I'm a fucking pussy, now can someone help me fix myself?" Hope that makes you angry as hell, because if I was you, I would bang my head against a wall until I could not! Here is the root of your problem: 1. The sexy ass Italian girl finds you easy to talk to and non-judgmental (in her eyes you're not a man) 2. You feed the sexy ass Italian girl all of the attention she needs to recover when she is depressed and then she goes and fucks someone else (in her eyes you're not a man) 3. You will never have this girl (because she does not see you as a man) 4. You will not listen to anything that anyone here tells you, because you're not man enough to see the truth. 5. You will prove you're not a man by discussing what I am saying here with her. The only way to fix this problem, is to leave this girl, tell her you can't see her in any way but sexually. Since being sexual is not on the agenda, it is best that the two of you no longer talk/hang out. DO NOT CRY IN FRONT OF HER!!!!!!!!!! Go home and cry like a fucking girl (God knows I did when I was going through this exact same thing). Wake up tomorrow and grab your cock/balls and fucking move forward with your life. Be the fucking MAN! Peace...

Author:	Mak [ Thu May 16, 2013 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Friend zone, but not the usual crap. Need advice please
Dude........ She only lets you lick her feet ? Take a step back and look outside the box.

Author:	Mak [ Thu May 16, 2013 7:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Friend zone, but not the usual crap. Need advice please
Quote: Ok, Tough Love time! You wrote all of the BullShit above all sincere and punk ass like a little girl to say. "I'm a fucking pussy, now can someone help me fix myself?" Hope that makes you angry as hell, because if I was you, I would bang my head against a wall until I could not! Here is the root of your problem: 1. The sexy ass Italian girl finds you easy to talk to and non-judgmental (in her eyes you're not a man) 2. You feed the sexy ass Italian girl all of the attention she needs to recover when she is depressed and then she goes and fucks someone else (in her eyes you're not a man) 3. You will never have this girl (because she does not see you as a man) 4. You will not listen to anything that anyone here tells you, because you're not man enough to see the truth. 5. You will prove you're not a man by discussing what I am saying here with her. The only way to fix this problem, is to leave this girl, tell her you can't see her in any way but sexually. Since being sexual is not on the agenda, it is best that the two of you no longer talk/hang out. DO NOT CRY IN FRONT OF HER!!!!!!!!!! Go home and cry like a fucking girl (God knows I did when I was going through this exact same thing). Wake up tomorrow and grab your cock/balls and fucking move forward with your life. Be the fucking MAN! Peace... ^^ LEGIT

Author:	lisophorm [ Thu May 16, 2013 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Friend zone, but not the usual crap. Need advice please
Thanks to everybody. Also the ones that were insulting. Really

Author:	Jeffro1972 [ Thu May 16, 2013 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Friend zone, but not the usual crap. Need advice please
I found the advice really good. I'm a serious newbie, and I'm in a similar relationship, and it really opened my eyes. Although, I need that in your face kind of advice. Jeffro.

Author:	zmbcm1 [ Thu May 16, 2013 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Friend zone, but not the usual crap. Need advice please
Quote: Thanks to everybody. Also the ones that were insulting. Really I didn't mean to insult you. I was blunt, but I was trying to tell you things how they were. I hope you'll get out of this without any needless pain. Good luck.

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Author:	lisophorm [ Thu May 16, 2013 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Friend zone, but not the usual crap. Need advice please
And just for the sake of it let me say that all of this is "emotional". I'm an emotional tampon but not an SPAM :-p Thanks again. There are a lot of points of reflections