PUA Forum :: I want to be completely up front and non-PUA with a girl.

Basically I want to cut through all the bullshit, and give her that facts she needs to either A.) accept me as potential relationship material or B.) Move on because I wasn't what she was looking for.

Unless she's massively insecure with herself, coming at her with a relationship ultimatum infers neediness on your part and a lack of confidence in holding a masculine frame to where she is the one making such a request. You are basically taking a feminine frame towards her by doing this and even though she may not run the other way, it will sit within her subconscious and over time lead to a loss of attraction towards you.

The thing is, there is a big age gap between us (12 or 13 years), and I look a lot younger than I am. Plus, we work together in a dead-end, close-to-minimum-wage kind of job. You know the kind of place where it's okay if you're a student, but not so much if you're a 32 years old man?

I've been in your situation (being involved with a girl 14 years younger than I - I am in my 30s), the one thing I wish I could have changed was asking her to be my girlfriend. Not only did I surrender all my power to her, I lost out on the affection and sex we were having. Over time things grew progressively weird and ultimately she started feeling depressed being around me as she knew I had always wanted more with her (I explicitly stated as much on several occasions). I actually got in contact with the girl today (after 6 months of no contact) and seems willing to hangout with me, but I really stabbed myself in the foot with her by approaching her from a commitment frame - DO NOT DO IT! Heed my warning.

Anyway, I feel like things could be going okay with me and her, but as soon as I drop the age bomb, coupled with my low tax bracket status, things will drastically change.

Things are only as big as you make them out to be, live by this. If you make a big deal about your current job situation than it WILL be a big deal. But, say you frame the situation as just part of a pit stop on the way to success she'll want to be along for the ride. Ambition is a powerful thing, a lot of women will see it as a DHV knowing there'll be a potentially big payoff later by hanging in there. More importantly, you should always be improving yourself for YOU, never for a woman - this is the frame you always want to hold

Do you say F it and tell her right off the bat? I'm sure some of you on here will tell me not to do it since it will make me look like a beta male with low value. But I just want to be taken and loved for what I am, no BS. Cut to the chase get it out into the open. Any thoughts?

If you want to be taken and loved for what you are, how come what' she's giving you now isn't enough? You're too caught up in a title as you feel that by her saying she's your girlfriend will give you female purity (60yochallenge). Buddy, relationships, courting in particular IS a game. If you have to spell everything out and are caught up in labels, women will not only not want to be with you, they will look down on you as something pathetic, not something to behold and chase after. Come on now, give your head a shake. You need to hear this.

Author:	Rock Steady [ Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:	I want to be completely up front and non-PUA with a girl.
Basically I want to cut through all the bullshit, and give her that facts she needs to either A.) accept me as potential relationship material or B.) Move on because I wasn't what she was looking for. The thing is, there is a big age gap between us (12 or 13 years), and I look a lot younger than I am. Plus, we work together in a dead-end, close-to-minimum-wage kind of job. You know the kind of place where it's okay if you're a student, but not so much if you're a 32 years old man? Anyway, I feel like things could be going okay with me and her, but as soon as I drop the age bomb, coupled with my low tax bracket status, things will drastically change. Do you say F it and tell her right off the bat? I'm sure some of you on here will tell me not to do it since it will make me look like a beta male with low value. But I just want to be taken and loved for what I am, no BS. Cut to the chase get it out into the open. Any thoughts?

Author:	titanman [ Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:
Saying "i want a relationship" with her before a date is disaster for recipe. You can't just cut the bullshit and expect her to say "ok". The bullshit you can cut, is being indirect. Be direct and ask her out. But if you're too strong you'll turn her off. Girls don't work on facts either. Take her out, it's the only way. And saying "I find you attractive, I want to take you out. I'm 32 my pay is shit blah blah and I want a relationship" will also freak her out. It just doesn't work like that.

Author:	Rock Steady [ Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:
Sorry, I should've gave a little more info. I already asked her out, and got her phone number. I planned a date with her for Sunday to which she answered yes. Anyway, so what you're saying is that facts are out of the equation here? I didn't plan on telling her that I want a relationship and then dropping the age and tax bracket on her. Just something like "before we get too far, I want you to know that I'm a lot older than I look" and then tell her my age. Or am I better off trying to make the date fun and downplay my age when she asks for it?

Author:	Tr@veler [ Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:
Does it matter? Ask yourself this. It should only be relevant if she asks, or if you get onto that topic. And even then, don't be ashamed of what you're doing. She agreed to go out with you, she likes you so far. Ask yourself, why shouldn't she like you after the date? There is no reason, really, if you're funny, teasing, nice, playful. And if the topic does come up, just be up front honest and don't apologize. Just the fact that you're asking this question shows you are insecure about what you do. It shouldn't really be something to worry about in the end if your personality is strong and you're just a good man. And age should be no factor. If you really feel it's having a bad impact, do something about your life, try to dig your way up and out.

Author:	Rock Steady [ Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:
You're right, it does bother me. I recently had someone say some not-so-nice things about me regarding my age/employment status, and it's starting to eat away at me. I feel like she is going to perceive me the same way. I know it's a defeatist attitude, but I'm only being honest.

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Author:	DJ_Z [ Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:
You haven't even gone on a date, yet you want to cut the "bs?" I think I know where you are coming from. You are looking for a relationship, and you are worried that she may be looking for a fling because she is young. Take a breath and relax, because you don't know yet. Go out, and have a conversation. If you start things off with an ultimatum, you will just look like you are trying to control her immediately, and most women are not big fans of controlling men. These things you are worried about will probably come up early in conversation. What kind of relationship you want, your age, etc that'll just come up as you two talk to eachother about your backgrounds. You work together, so she obviously knows how much you make. But here's your mistake: You are talking as if pickup is about dishonesty. It isn't. What you are talking about, getting to the point, that's the purpose of a date. It's a chance to spend time with someone and screen them. You will probably find out these things in normal conversation, so you don't need to go "hey, before we go out, I want you to know that I have no desire to talk to you unless you see me as a potential husband." Don't worry about issues that don't exist yet, chill back, and you will be fine.

Author:	titanman [ Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:
Regarding age, don't mention unless she asks. If you were happy with your age/look you wouldn't bring it up randomly, would you? So don't do it here. It'll come across as an insecurity. But I'm sure you'll both ask each others ages before it gets too far anyway. Don't worry about it dude.

Author:	agentprovocateur [ Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: I want to be completely up front and non-PUA with a girl.
Quote: Basically I want to cut through all the bullshit, and give her that facts she needs to either A.) accept me as potential relationship material or B.) Move on because I wasn't what she was looking for. Unless she's massively insecure with herself, coming at her with a relationship ultimatum infers neediness on your part and a lack of confidence in holding a masculine frame to where she is the one making such a request. You are basically taking a feminine frame towards her by doing this and even though she may not run the other way, it will sit within her subconscious and over time lead to a loss of attraction towards you. The thing is, there is a big age gap between us (12 or 13 years), and I look a lot younger than I am. Plus, we work together in a dead-end, close-to-minimum-wage kind of job. You know the kind of place where it's okay if you're a student, but not so much if you're a 32 years old man? I've been in your situation (being involved with a girl 14 years younger than I - I am in my 30s), the one thing I wish I could have changed was asking her to be my girlfriend. Not only did I surrender all my power to her, I lost out on the affection and sex we were having. Over time things grew progressively weird and ultimately she started feeling depressed being around me as she knew I had always wanted more with her (I explicitly stated as much on several occasions). I actually got in contact with the girl today (after 6 months of no contact) and seems willing to hangout with me, but I really stabbed myself in the foot with her by approaching her from a commitment frame - DO NOT DO IT! Heed my warning. Anyway, I feel like things could be going okay with me and her, but as soon as I drop the age bomb, coupled with my low tax bracket status, things will drastically change. Things are only as big as you make them out to be, live by this. If you make a big deal about your current job situation than it WILL be a big deal. But, say you frame the situation as just part of a pit stop on the way to success she'll want to be along for the ride. Ambition is a powerful thing, a lot of women will see it as a DHV knowing there'll be a potentially big payoff later by hanging in there. More importantly, you should always be improving yourself for YOU, never for a woman - this is the frame you always want to hold Do you say F it and tell her right off the bat? I'm sure some of you on here will tell me not to do it since it will make me look like a beta male with low value. But I just want to be taken and loved for what I am, no BS. Cut to the chase get it out into the open. Any thoughts? If you want to be taken and loved for what you are, how come what' she's giving you now isn't enough? You're too caught up in a title as you feel that by her saying she's your girlfriend will give you female purity (60yochallenge). Buddy, relationships, courting in particular IS a game. If you have to spell everything out and are caught up in labels, women will not only not want to be with you, they will look down on you as something pathetic, not something to behold and chase after. Come on now, give your head a shake. You need to hear this.

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