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Should you be doing pick up??
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Author:  McLavelli [ Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:39 am ]
Post subject:  Should you be doing pick up??
OK. This post is long overdo.

I know there may be a few people who disagree with me (including my most reliable and good friends) but it has to be said. My goal is not be nice which is superficial; rather it is to be good and to arrive at the truth.

Pick up/game is not for everyone and mastering it is beyond the reach of the vast majority of men. As the anonymous author of the Delusion Damage website notes quite accurately:

Game is a difficult skill to master and its rewards are correspondingly spectacular, but it shall quite probably remain forever outside the reach of some 95% of men, who simply lack the required intellectual capacity and the calm tenacity to hone their skills to a fine point.

http://delusiondamage.com/2011/10/27/th ... in-danger/

Mastery, for lack of a better term, requires painstaking training and suffering. Not only that, but the vast majority of existing pick up material is bullshit. I personally know a former dating coach who can confirm this.

So ask yourself: is pick up really for me?

Learning pick up is a discipline. Mystery refers to it as the Venusian arts, contrasting with the martial arts. In many ways this title and comparison is very apt. As martial arts requires knowledge and training, so does mastering the Venusian arts. There are a myriad of schools and styles when it comes to the martial arts, the same is true with pick up. There is the Mystery Method, then there's Tyler Durden and RSD, Ross Jeffries with NLP and more.

Some people are naturally good fighters -mostly out of necessity throughout life but sometimes genetically endowed with larger frames, aggressive tendencies etc. Similarly, with the Venusian arts there are some who are naturally good at getting girls. These are so called "naturals" but even still these "naturals" are still looking to improve their skill through careful study, and the ones who aren't are nonentities when it comes to cold approaching.

The problem with stranger approaching is twofold: one, the negative feedback you will naturally receive as a stranger, and two the uphill battle you will face as a stranger trying to establish a romantic connection with an attractive woman. Over and over again you will be treated just as you are: a stranger. This is negative feedback for your mind. It is in no way natural to go up to hundreds of strangers over the course of a few months and get rejected over and over again. It never happened in tribal society, for which we are hardwired, and not today.

The job of the unconscious brain is to protect us. This is why we feel pain when we're hurt, so we know something is wrong and we'll be given the impetus to do something about it. Well, if you're not careful, doing massive cold approaching can lead to depression. In some cases people come out worse than when they started psychologically.

Doing cold approaching is not easy. Most say that you will fail the majority of the time no matter what. Paul Janka, despite being a Harvard graduate, tall, and good looking only has an 11% success rate. UK day gamer Yad has a 50% success rate. Why is it so difficult to meet and attract an attractive woman from cold approaching?

The answer is mainly social circle.

Think about it: if you're a 10 which guy would you rather go with some random guy you met off of the street and talked with for 10 minutes or a guy you've known through your friends for months or years? This is the reason why most #s you get are flakes.

Cold approaching/stranger approaching is the most unnatural way to meet and attract women. When you're meeting a woman off the street you are competing with her entire social circle. Why would she go with an average guy having a normal polite conversation, when she can do the same in her social circle and know he's not a complete stranger (who knows you might try to run some R-game on her for all she knows). You can be a 9 but meeting through cold approach a woman would rather date a 7 in her social circle. This is why you really have to sweep a girl off her feet to be successful and decrease your flake rate.

And this drives my point: learning the Venusian arts is not for people who are just lonely looking for a girlfriend. If this is the case you are suffering "delusion damage." Wasting your time laboring because you are deluded. The good news is social circle is 5x easier than cold approaching so if you've been suffering this form of "delusion damage" then it'll be much easier for you in social circle. Consider yourself like Goku training under 5x gravity to get stronger. In fact, I'd recommend for everyone to go out and do stranger approaching for a while for just this reason. One can learn a lot.

But if you're doing this just to find a girlfriend, SAVE YOURSELF THE TIME AND JUST BUILD UP YOUR SOCIAL CIRCLE INSTEAD. YOU'LL SAVE YOURSELF A LOT OF TIME, ENERGY AND SUFFERING.

Now ask yourself: why am I in the game?
Author:  somebody delete this shit [ Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:45 am ]
Post subject: 
Who cares about percentages...the successes matter not the failures...let the failures motivate you and continue your successes

Michael Jordan only hit 49.7% of all his shots throughout his career
Tom brady only has a 63.8% career passing percentage

Neither of them are at 100%...it's impossible to be at 100%

the only way you can be 100% is if you don't shoot enough or try enough or go for harder things...i.e going for short passes instead of throwing it downfield. or only making 5 passes or something

you're going to fail...who gives a fuck
Author:  somebody delete this shit [ Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:47 am ]
Post subject: 
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take...

one of my biggest regrets in my life is that I didn't apply to Harvard university when I was in high school and now I'm at Yale. I thought oh no way i can get in and talked myself out of it...stupid stupid stupid...not that yale sucks

but you get what i'm saying....leave with no regrets
Author:  DJ_Z [ Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:47 am ]
Post subject: 
I...kind of agree. I think it's worth learning a bit and trying out, regardless of your goals and circumstances, because for every person with innate talent there is someone who works hard to reach a goal. But hell, this section of the forum is filled with guys asking about pickup concepts with the goal of getting that one girl they've had a crush on for years. This isn't an easy thing to do, and if you aren't willing to take rejection, if your ego is easily bruised, etc, it's even tougher.
Author:  McLavelli [ Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:03 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Who cares about percentages...the successes matter not the failures...let the failures motivate you and continue your successes

Michael Jordan only hit 49.7% of all his shots throughout his career
Tom brady only has a 63.8% career passing percentage

Neither of them are at 100%...it's impossible to be at 100%

the only way you can be 100% is if you don't shoot enough or try enough or go for harder things...i.e going for short passes instead of throwing it downfield. or only making 5 passes or something

you're going to fail...who gives a fuck
I agree with you, Rasta, somewhat except that I'd cap the apex at about maybe 50-60% for game, and success DOES NOT = phone #s, I mean getting the lay. I do care about percentages. If you're in field scoring 10% of the time wouldn't you want to increase your percentages at least a few points?
I'd say it's all about increasing your percentages and you're not going to reach 100% no matter what. I'm not really a sports guy, but I can agree with the analogy that an MVP player will never have 100% success rate. That's not possible.

What this post is driving at is that learning game is no way near what a newbie would expect it to be; it's infinitely harder.
If you're just looking for a gf I'd recommend just generating a social circle. Being proficient at game is a discipline.

I'm trying to prevent people from wasting their valuable time because as Ben Franklin once said it's the stuff life is made of.
Author:  detox75 [ Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:31 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
, SAVE YOURSELF THE TIME AND JUST BUILD UP YOUR SOCIAL CIRCLE INSTEAD. YOU'LL SAVE YOURSELF A LOT OF TIME, ENERGY AND SUFFERING.
absolutely not I'm anti-social and cant stand most people as I find them stupid and boorish. Yet I like to get laid, very regularly using PUA Techniques. Screw the social circle.

Now I do think its the easiest way to get laid, to have a large social cirlce, but you better be an Alpha in that circle, or you are going to derive very little benefit for all that work.
Author:  McLavelli [ Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:54 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
, SAVE YOURSELF THE TIME AND JUST BUILD UP YOUR SOCIAL CIRCLE INSTEAD. YOU'LL SAVE YOURSELF A LOT OF TIME, ENERGY AND SUFFERING.
absolutely not I'm anti-social and cant stand most people as I find them stupid and boorish. Yet I like to get laid, very regularly using PUA Techniques. Screw the social circle.

Now I do think its the easiest way to get laid, to have a large social cirlce, but you better be an Alpha in that circle, or you are going to derive very little benefit for all that work.
The first part of that quote, which you omitted, reads "if you're doing this just to find a girlfriend..."
The average beta male who may be on here - unlike me or you - is just looking for a girlfriend, and learning pick up is NOT the answer they're looking for. They can save themselves the anguish and labor by just building up a decent social circle. In some cases they already have a decent one. For me, personally, I abhor anything social circle oriented, because I grew up as an omega male. Unlike the majority of people I never made ANY social circle because of this reason: growing up as an omega.

But it seems that you're a bit like me and you'd rather do cold/stranger approaching...
Author:  danthedan [ Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
, SAVE YOURSELF THE TIME AND JUST BUILD UP YOUR SOCIAL CIRCLE INSTEAD. YOU'LL SAVE YOURSELF A LOT OF TIME, ENERGY AND SUFFERING.
absolutely not I'm anti-social and cant stand most people as I find them stupid and boorish. Yet I like to get laid, very regularly using PUA Techniques. Screw the social circle.

Now I do think its the easiest way to get laid, to have a large social cirlce, but you better be an Alpha in that circle, or you are going to derive very little benefit for all that work.
The first part of that quote, which you omitted, reads "if you're doing this just to find a girlfriend..."
The average beta male who may be on here - unlike me or you - is just looking for a girlfriend, and learning pick up is NOT the answer they're looking for. They can save themselves the anguish and labor by just building up a decent social circle. In some cases they already have a decent one. For me, personally, I abhor anything social circle oriented, because I grew up as an omega male. Unlike the majority of people I never made ANY social circle because of this reason: growing up as an omega.

But it seems that you're a bit like me and you'd rather do cold/stranger approaching...
Why wouldn't game get you a girlfriend? The whole idea of game is to get laid with sexy girls. Once you've found a sexy girl who somehow gets tricked by your 'game' into sleeping with you, you've got her. The only difference between a ONS and a girlfriend is not dumping her the next morning. So don't dump her, and just have sex with her pretty much daily for months/years, and bingo, you have a girlfriend!
Author:  The Lone Wolf [ Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
I couldn't agree more, Grandpa. I believe social circle game is definitely the way to go.

That's not to say you shouldn't try the cold approach. I mean, sure, it does work, however you're much, much more behind the 8 ball compared to gaming in your social circle.

Think about it: Let's be conservative and say you have 5 friends. It would be statistically likely that there would be at least one woman included in that 5. Each of those 5 people have 5 friends etc. There is a plethora of women to game in social circle and as you game more and more, your social circle will widen and will provide additional women. You are the "friend of a friend" which, in itself, provides attraction (pre-selection, socially savvy, worth having around etc) which increases your potential for success.

That's just my two cents. :)
Author:  GeekyMicky [ Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
But you have to meet your new "social circle" friends the first time once, and in that circumstance you will be judged. If you have lost your approach anxiety by doing gaming then you will be able to make a much better first impression.

So gaming to AFC's is like a mock exam for the real thing. The point is to do it even if you are unsuccessful at it, because it improves your personality.
Author:  McLavelli [ Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
absolutely not I'm anti-social and cant stand most people as I find them stupid and boorish. Yet I like to get laid, very regularly using PUA Techniques. Screw the social circle.

Now I do think its the easiest way to get laid, to have a large social cirlce, but you better be an Alpha in that circle, or you are going to derive very little benefit for all that work.
The first part of that quote, which you omitted, reads "if you're doing this just to find a girlfriend..."
The average beta male who may be on here - unlike me or you - is just looking for a girlfriend, and learning pick up is NOT the answer they're looking for. They can save themselves the anguish and labor by just building up a decent social circle. In some cases they already have a decent one. For me, personally, I abhor anything social circle oriented, because I grew up as an omega male. Unlike the majority of people I never made ANY social circle because of this reason: growing up as an omega.

But it seems that you're a bit like me and you'd rather do cold/stranger approaching...
Why wouldn't game get you a girlfriend? The whole idea of game is to get laid with sexy girls. Once you've found a sexy girl who somehow gets tricked by your 'game' into sleeping with you, you've got her. The only difference between a ONS and a girlfriend is not dumping her the next morning. So don't dump her, and just have sex with her pretty much daily for months/years, and bingo, you have a girlfriend!
You're missing the point. I'm not saying game won't get you a girlfriend; what I'm saying is that if this is all you're looking for- a girlfriend- then game is not for you.
Author:  Entourages [ Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
What if your goal is for both? To eventually get a girlfriend but at the same time have girls crawling all over you -for lack of a better term.

Would you also agree that if you just want a girlfriend then game isnt for you if you are a "40 yr old virgin" clearly your social circle has not given you the mate you are looking for so what would one in that circumstance do? (clearly not directed at me I am just curious at what point this becomes "The game" or "the hunt")
Author:  McLavelli [ Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
What if your goal is for both? To eventually get a girlfriend but at the same time have girls crawling all over you -for lack of a better term.

Would you also agree that if you just want a girlfriend then game isnt for you if you are a "40 yr old virgin" clearly your social circle has not given you the mate you are looking for so what would one in that circumstance do? (clearly not directed at me I am just curious at what point this becomes "The game" or "the hunt")
Then you want to do both, but realize what you're getting into: the Venusian arts, an actual discipline. For the 40 yr old virgin types it would probably be social circle that's easier ultimately for the long term, but I'd recommend doing both to build some skill sets.
As I indicated in the post, I recommend that everyone at least go out and do stranger approaching for a little while because there are many skills you can pick up.
But I will stick to Delusion Damage's assessment that mastery, for lack of a better term, is outside of the reach of 95% of men. That is not to say that these 95% of men can't use some of the techniques of game and apply them to their social circle/ warm approaching. What I'm saying is cold approaching is the most unnatural way of meeting and attracting women, and is correspondingly the most difficult. Why do it if you don't really need to? I'm trying to save people wasted effort and time.

BTW: I noticed you're in NYC. Me and Ted Mosby are starting up a "lair" or group of sorts based in NYC area: looking-to-start-a-group-in-nyc-to-help ... 97485.html

We already have 26 people in our group. If you're interested send me a PM with your FB, if you have one, or any other info and I'll add you to the group.
Author:  danthedan [ Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The first part of that quote, which you omitted, reads "if you're doing this just to find a girlfriend..."
The average beta male who may be on here - unlike me or you - is just looking for a girlfriend, and learning pick up is NOT the answer they're looking for. They can save themselves the anguish and labor by just building up a decent social circle. In some cases they already have a decent one. For me, personally, I abhor anything social circle oriented, because I grew up as an omega male. Unlike the majority of people I never made ANY social circle because of this reason: growing up as an omega.

But it seems that you're a bit like me and you'd rather do cold/stranger approaching...
Why wouldn't game get you a girlfriend? The whole idea of game is to get laid with sexy girls. Once you've found a sexy girl who somehow gets tricked by your 'game' into sleeping with you, you've got her. The only difference between a ONS and a girlfriend is not dumping her the next morning. So don't dump her, and just have sex with her pretty much daily for months/years, and bingo, you have a girlfriend!
You're missing the point. I'm not saying game won't get you a girlfriend; what I'm saying is that if this is all you're looking for- a girlfriend- then game is not for you.
Are you saying that 'game' is too powerful to be wasted on getting just one girlfriend? Smashing a nut with a sledgehammer may be unnecessarily excessive just to crack it, but at least you can crack open whatever nut you want. So surely if you learnt 'game' and could have any girl, you'd have a much wider choice, so would end up with a much hotter girlfriend. How else do you suggest guys go about bagging a beautiful girlfriend?
Author:  detox75 [ Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Are you saying that 'game' is too powerful to be wasted on getting just one girlfriend? Smashing a nut with a sledgehammer may be unnecessarily excessive just to crack it, but at least you can crack open whatever nut you want. So surely if you learnt 'game' and could have any girl, you'd have a much wider choice, so would end up with a much hotter girlfriend. How else do you suggest guys go about bagging a beautiful girlfriend?
I would agree with this

or as a famous PUA once said

"You have to know how to get all the girls to get THAT girl consistently"
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