PUA Forum :: Is TOO much trust bad? Ie she thinks ill never cheat?

century,

i see you struggling with this time and time again, from topic to topic.

understand, that isn't an attack on you.

rather it is an acknowledgement that i have been in your current "brainspace" before and i know the flood of questions (doubts) you are having based on all of this counterintuitive information you are getting.

you seem like i guy (and i am by nature, as well) who is incredibly affectionate with your women. i am too (by nature).

and you are trying to reconcile the difference between reading how you are "supposed" to act and how you naturally relate to people. and if you can't be yourself, then you can't be genuine, then everything is bullshit and for naught...

right?

i get ya, man.

here is what i can say on this issue. i've struggled with many/most of the issues that you have posted here. from the trust issues, etc.

let me tell you a story.

i grew up. the son of a single mother and the little brother to a big sister. i was also the nephew to a single aunt. and occasionally would visit my surviving grandmother.

little pattern there?

i was raised by women. what's better? the little contact i had with my father was limited to: him beating me, or, learning how he had beat/terrorized my mother. good stuff, man.

anyway, what's the point of that? context. background.

the point is, not only was i raised by women. but i also had no decent male role model and no real-world example of what a normal relationship could/would even look like. so i coped. in the best way possible. trial-and-error.

ok, now i'm rambling.

so, anyway, i am in my mid-thirties. and i have by my very nature always been the following things with women:

- attentive
- respectful
- supportive
- connected
- open (this is your issue here)
- and, importantly, saw them/treated them as a "partner" 50/50

see that word ^open^ up there? thatis your issue. i've read your topics and seen this come up again and again. so i get that you are working on a deeper understanding and struggling with this concept.

the paradox?

"if i can not be open with my girlfriend, then it's all bullshit anyway"
and
"if i am open with my girlfriend, i will lose here"

correct?

thought so...

so, back to my story... i am what you might call a serial monogamist. as stated before, time and time again, i am not a pua. i am a fully-recovered afc with pua tendencies, lol. which means, i've solidified my inner game and can pretty much pick up chicks when i want to, but choose not to because i'm busy as fuck, a single dad, back in college, and just out of an almost two-year hellish relationship that fucked my mind. (this relationship is the reason i sought out pua) and you could say pua saved my life (or at least my soul).

string of relationships. i did everything right. and by "right" (of course), i mean i was respectful, attentive, supportive, connected, open, and a partner (all those qualities i listed earlier). they all failed. in the same ways. hmm, what's the common connection? well, it's "me" of course.

my issue. niceness being taken for weakness. it's happened time and time again in my life. i am not weak. but i've been taken for weak in my life. not just in relationships, but also in friendships, acquaintences, business dealings, etc. why? because i was nice.

the flip side, the thing that most people don't understand, is that i am "nice" because i can also be mean as fuck. i mean ruthless. like i said, i grew up being abused. violently. that leaves a mark on you and you tend to not like aggression, dominance, authority, etc.

i'm the guy, who in school got picked on from time to time, because i was "nice". seemed like an easy target. until i would decide i had enough, then i beat the kid almost to death in the classroom and get expelled from school. six schools to be exact. lol. yep, pretty much you don't wanna fuck with me. i've had people ask me (after they start a fight with me, and while i am in the progress of nearly killing them) "why are you doing this?"

why?

because you threatened me.

but you see, to most normal people. a fight is about "trading blows" and then it's over and then somebody brags and we all smile and dust it off.

to me, a fight is a fight for absolute survival. animal instinct. and i have almost killed those who were unfortunate enough to lay a hand on me. i've even begged people to walk away after punching me in the face. this always gets an interesting reaction from the crowd, lol.

anyway, goddammit, i am rambling again.....

so, my point is: i am a nice guy. because i choose to be. i am not weak. it's a battle. every day i look in the mirror and say "be civilized out there, do the right thing, be a man of honor."

each of my relationships has failed in the same way. being taken for "weak".

why? because i am...naturally:

- supportive
- attentive
- non-aggressive
- open
- and a partner mentality

oops, what's that? classic beta traits^^^

instead of being:

- dominant
- aggressive
- authoritarian
- self-absorbed (kind of, the opposite of "open", if you think about it)

wait, what's that again? classic alpha traits^^^

i was with the mother of my child for eleven years. she walked all over me. i tried time and time again to be "the nice guy". again, for my own dysfunctional reasons. not because i am a natural beta. but because i've tried real hard to not be my dad. the point is, i have an aversion to authority. i won't be under it, and i don't want to be over other people either. so, my natural tendency is partnership.

what is the point to all of this self-indulgent bs rambling?

the point is this:

you can have very good and legitimate reasons for being who you are and how you are. it doesn't matter. as long as your traits emulate beta traits, you will be judged as such.

i've had to come to a couple of very hard realizations after a lifetime of failed relationships. remember, i've been doing this "relationship" thing for almost twenty years. that's a long time to keep failing. and i've finally seen the pattern. it's obviously me.

and one of my biggest weaknesses?

how i perceived women, how i perceived men, how i perceived our respective roles in relationships, and how i had to accept that social dynamics is in play all the time, and it will not make exceptions for me being "me" just because what i went though in my earlier years.

in the core "Mack" was never a weakling. he just had eccentric, irrelevant, and misguided notions of what it meant to be a good man / good boyfriend.

hence... "Mack 2.0"

i have realized that i have to assert my dominance. or i will be dominated.

in my former perfect and damaged utopia, everybody is respectful and nobody has authority over anyone else. people behave like adults and everybody just gels and things run smoothly. this might be possible in my head. but my biggest realization was that THE WORLD DOES NOT WORK THIS WAY.

again, you are saying "Mack, what in the fuck is the point here?"

ok, i'll tie it all together for you.

i know for a fact, that you (like me) have your own reasons for viewing women are partners and wanting to completely open with them. i don't know "what" your reasons are, but i know they exist. because i know what is in your mind as you struggle with this issue.

now, a list of truths:

a woman will never be your partner.
she will also never be your friend.
relationships will never be based on equality.
women don't want "openness", they want "security".
women don't want "partnership", they want a "leader".
this is all about "mating", it's not about love and connection.

it's horrible, i know, because it means guys like you and i are doomed to be pretty much unsatisfied with relationships, unless we can change our core ideas and expectations from a relationship.

i no longer seek happiness from a woman. i am happy in and of myself. i workout, i work at my job, i go to college, i have my aspirations and my path in life. women come and go. i won't care anymore.

and, maybe, with enough time and introspection, i can actually learn to be happy with a woman being "a leader and a mate" as opposed to "a friend and a partner".

good luck.

Author:	Century100 [ Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:16 am ]
Post subject:	Is TOO much trust bad? Ie she thinks ill never cheat?
Hey! I know this is a bad place to take ideas from...but regardless - I saw a Chinese movie where this girl cheated on her boyfriend blah blah blah POINT IS - her reason in the film was that "she wanted to have a guy who wasn't so nice, she felt too safe with her boyfriend and knew he would never cheat. She preferred waking up every morning wondering whether the guy she was seeing was with another girl" And this made me stop and think - WOW. Is that REALLY how much of a challenge you have to be in order to keep a girl interested? Do you REALLY have to have her thinking that you could be cheating on her? It made me think that maybe, despite my efforts to not sway opinions due to my girlfriend, despite me doing what I want to do (hanging out with friends, studying rather than seeing my girl if need be) and turning on the charm when talking to any other girl, it still wasn't enough of a challenge. I guess the question boils down to - How much of a challenge do you really need to be to keep a woman? In my honest opinion, what I heard in that Chinese budget film sounded absolutely ridiculous. I mean tell me if I'm wrong, but what I always learnt was that the very foundations of a relationship are trust. This film hinted out that too much trust makes girls feel too safe and they perceive the relationship as unfullfilling/uneventful. What are your thoughts/ideas? Thanks gentlemen.

Author:	charblad [ Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:18 am ]
Post subject:
Women keep at least 20 guys as potential boyfriends when your dating them, why the f--k shouldn't you keep some women too? They wouln't always cheat on you, but the second you leave them they will have 5 guys asking them out the next day while your alone. I really doubt your GF will want you to cheat on her, just to keep the relationship; I expect its one of those things where she says one thing but she means do the opposite or else. Like the dreaded "we need to talk" statement, they arn't saying "we need to talk" they're saying "you need to sit down and listen while I tell you all the ways you been f--king up" (credit Rodney)

Author:	7000 [ Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:
I suppose it could work, but if you've got a girl who is constantly paranoid and thinking you're going to cheat on her, it sounds like you're going to end up with a bit of a high maintenance nut case that is not worth the effort. Why would you want to deliberately make a girl feel like that? I think the general concept of not being too routiney and not being a push over is important in a relationship, but trust about cheating is surely the whole point to a relationship.

Author:	detox75 [ Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: How much of a challenge do you really need to be to keep a woman? This is one of those watching the finger pointing at the moon issues. Its not the challenge the girls really care about, its the underlying pathology that a guy who isn't a challenge, is too nice, is too accommodating, or in general is too supplicating, isn't the prize, and thus doesn't posses higher social value. When we picture the highly sought after Alpha male, would he demonstrate these unattractive characteristics? In the state of nature a man with unlimited options for mating would not do these "unattractive" things. We no longer run in small tribes so woman are pre-programmed to make snap judgements based on behaviors that indicate social standing, not the actual social standing itself. On one hand that is good because it allows us to "cheat" the system, on another hand its bad, because we have to play these silly games.

Author:	Century100 [ Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:42 am ]
Post subject:
Ok, so what does being a pushover involve then? I am incredibly nice to my girlfriend, and tell her how important she is to me when she's down and assure her that I actually wouldn't mind keeping her forever - and she tears up and says the same to me. But at the same time, I'm not buying her stuff, I make her pay equally, I don't cancel friends to see her and I text her less than she texts me and all that stuff (not intentionally, it just works out) - so is it just this superficial stuff which governs whether or not you are not the prize? Or should a true "alpha male" not be so sensitive to his girl, and never admit how much he cares for her under any circumstances? I don't mean to sound like a whinger, but this "you can't let her trust you too much and you cant show her how much she means to you so you can be alpha" seems really...fucked to me. So either a) I've misinterpreted the "Don't be a nice guy" thing, and that's fine I'm willing to accept that I've probably just exaggerated the idea or b) I'm spot on. You shouldn't ever admit she's really important to you so that she thinks that you will leave at any better opportunity at any time and she will like you more. If this is the case then I genuinely think pick up has this all wrong

PUA Forum https://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/

Is TOO much trust bad? Ie she thinks ill never cheat? https://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=123851	Page 1 of 3

Author:	jurupa [ Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:37 am ]
Post subject:
[quote="Century100"]Ok, so what does being a pushover involve then?[quote]In short a guy with no backbone and gets "pushed" around by the girlfriend. Tho Century, why are you putting in so much stock in a movie? Girls really don't want a bad boy, they want a guy that has some bad boy in him, but not the full thing really.

Author:	Mack 2.0 [ Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:06 am ]
Post subject:
century, i see you struggling with this time and time again, from topic to topic. understand, that isn't an attack on you. rather it is an acknowledgement that i have been in your current "brainspace" before and i know the flood of questions (doubts) you are having based on all of this counterintuitive information you are getting. you seem like i guy (and i am by nature, as well) who is incredibly affectionate with your women. i am too (by nature). and you are trying to reconcile the difference between reading how you are "supposed" to act and how you naturally relate to people. and if you can't be yourself, then you can't be genuine, then everything is bullshit and for naught... right? i get ya, man. here is what i can say on this issue. i've struggled with many/most of the issues that you have posted here. from the trust issues, etc. let me tell you a story. i grew up. the son of a single mother and the little brother to a big sister. i was also the nephew to a single aunt. and occasionally would visit my surviving grandmother. little pattern there? i was raised by women. what's better? the little contact i had with my father was limited to: him beating me, or, learning how he had beat/terrorized my mother. good stuff, man. anyway, what's the point of that? context. background. the point is, not only was i raised by women. but i also had no decent male role model and no real-world example of what a normal relationship could/would even look like. so i coped. in the best way possible. trial-and-error. ok, now i'm rambling. so, anyway, i am in my mid-thirties. and i have by my very nature always been the following things with women: - attentive - respectful - supportive - connected - open (this is your issue here) - and, importantly, saw them/treated them as a "partner" 50/50 see that word ^open^ up there? thatis your issue. i've read your topics and seen this come up again and again. so i get that you are working on a deeper understanding and struggling with this concept. the paradox? "if i can not be open with my girlfriend, then it's all bullshit anyway" and "if i am open with my girlfriend, i will lose here" correct? thought so... so, back to my story... i am what you might call a serial monogamist. as stated before, time and time again, i am not a pua. i am a fully-recovered afc with pua tendencies, lol. which means, i've solidified my inner game and can pretty much pick up chicks when i want to, but choose not to because i'm busy as fuck, a single dad, back in college, and just out of an almost two-year hellish relationship that fucked my mind. (this relationship is the reason i sought out pua) and you could say pua saved my life (or at least my soul). string of relationships. i did everything right. and by "right" (of course), i mean i was respectful, attentive, supportive, connected, open, and a partner (all those qualities i listed earlier). they all failed. in the same ways. hmm, what's the common connection? well, it's "me" of course. my issue. niceness being taken for weakness. it's happened time and time again in my life. i am not weak. but i've been taken for weak in my life. not just in relationships, but also in friendships, acquaintences, business dealings, etc. why? because i was nice. the flip side, the thing that most people don't understand, is that i am "nice" because i can also be mean as fuck. i mean ruthless. like i said, i grew up being abused. violently. that leaves a mark on you and you tend to not like aggression, dominance, authority, etc. i'm the guy, who in school got picked on from time to time, because i was "nice". seemed like an easy target. until i would decide i had enough, then i beat the kid almost to death in the classroom and get expelled from school. six schools to be exact. lol. yep, pretty much you don't wanna fuck with me. i've had people ask me (after they start a fight with me, and while i am in the progress of nearly killing them) "why are you doing this?" why? because you threatened me. but you see, to most normal people. a fight is about "trading blows" and then it's over and then somebody brags and we all smile and dust it off. to me, a fight is a fight for absolute survival. animal instinct. and i have almost killed those who were unfortunate enough to lay a hand on me. i've even begged people to walk away after punching me in the face. this always gets an interesting reaction from the crowd, lol. anyway, goddammit, i am rambling again..... so, my point is: i am a nice guy. because i choose to be. i am not weak. it's a battle. every day i look in the mirror and say "be civilized out there, do the right thing, be a man of honor." each of my relationships has failed in the same way. being taken for "weak". why? because i am...naturally: - supportive - attentive - non-aggressive - open - and a partner mentality oops, what's that? classic beta traits^^^ instead of being: - dominant - aggressive - authoritarian - self-absorbed (kind of, the opposite of "open", if you think about it) wait, what's that again? classic alpha traits^^^ i was with the mother of my child for eleven years. she walked all over me. i tried time and time again to be "the nice guy". again, for my own dysfunctional reasons. not because i am a natural beta. but because i've tried real hard to not be my dad. the point is, i have an aversion to authority. i won't be under it, and i don't want to be over other people either. so, my natural tendency is partnership. what is the point to all of this self-indulgent bs rambling? the point is this: you can have very good and legitimate reasons for being who you are and how you are. it doesn't matter. as long as your traits emulate beta traits, you will be judged as such. i've had to come to a couple of very hard realizations after a lifetime of failed relationships. remember, i've been doing this "relationship" thing for almost twenty years. that's a long time to keep failing. and i've finally seen the pattern. it's obviously me. and one of my biggest weaknesses? how i perceived women, how i perceived men, how i perceived our respective roles in relationships, and how i had to accept that social dynamics is in play all the time, and it will not make exceptions for me being "me" just because what i went though in my earlier years. in the core "Mack" was never a weakling. he just had eccentric, irrelevant, and misguided notions of what it meant to be a good man / good boyfriend. hence... "Mack 2.0" i have realized that i have to assert my dominance. or i will be dominated. in my former perfect and damaged utopia, everybody is respectful and nobody has authority over anyone else. people behave like adults and everybody just gels and things run smoothly. this might be possible in my head. but my biggest realization was that THE WORLD DOES NOT WORK THIS WAY. again, you are saying "Mack, what in the fuck is the point here?" ok, i'll tie it all together for you. i know for a fact, that you (like me) have your own reasons for viewing women are partners and wanting to completely open with them. i don't know "what" your reasons are, but i know they exist. because i know what is in your mind as you struggle with this issue. now, a list of truths: a woman will never be your partner. she will also never be your friend. relationships will never be based on equality. women don't want "openness", they want "security". women don't want "partnership", they want a "leader". this is all about "mating", it's not about love and connection. it's horrible, i know, because it means guys like you and i are doomed to be pretty much unsatisfied with relationships, unless we can change our core ideas and expectations from a relationship. i no longer seek happiness from a woman. i am happy in and of myself. i workout, i work at my job, i go to college, i have my aspirations and my path in life. women come and go. i won't care anymore. and, maybe, with enough time and introspection, i can actually learn to be happy with a woman being "a leader and a mate" as opposed to "a friend and a partner". good luck.

Author:	Wall1e [ Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:
thanks for this information Mack 2.0 I always tried to seek happiness in women too. Since this forum, i found out that you shouldn't care too much about it. Lemme tell a short story of myself: I was kinda in a relationship with myself. But she lived quite a distance away. So after 6 months i was like: this doesn't work, and i told her honestly. She was very sad about it, and 2 months later i was regretting it, so i tried to win her back. She was taking drugs by then and i blamed it on me, which you never should. The next 2 months i talked with her on MSN, keeping her from the drugs, but it affected me, because i (thought i )would be happy if she was. But she was negative and sad all the time, it influenced me so badly, that my grades on went all to the bottom. After that i thought: i won't care anymore for anyone. So that made me the biggest jerk there was around, i didn't respect women at all anymore, and i almost beated up some of my BEST friends because they were being depressed and asking me for help all the time. So i think you need to seek a balance in wether you care or not. If you don't care of her at all, you are just a big jerk. If you care too much, you're just a nice guy and she can walk all over you because you approve any of her behaviour. So basically, be a caring and respecting boyfriend/husband, but make sure she doesn't get too much.

Author:	detox75 [ Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:
Mack 2.o said: Quote: you can have very good and legitimate reasons for being who you are and how you are. it doesn't matter. as long as your traits emulate beta traits, you will be judged as such. This is an excellent point, and an inverted truism to what I said in my post. Accept things as they are, not as you wish them to be.

Author:	Lodewijkp [ Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:
good post mack... lol .. i don't want to ramble but im exactly the opposite lol .. everyday when i look in the mirror i have to tell myself to kill people out there otherwise im too nice ... Quote: a woman will never be your partner. she will also never be your friend. relationships will never be based on equality. women don't want "openness", they want "security". women don't want "partnership", they want a "leader". this is all about "mating", it's not about love and connection. people who think this isn't true don't know anything about pickup or woman... i have found out the hard way, it's better if you accept this shit now...im never going to trust a woman ever again in my whole fucking like .. im serious.. because .. you cannot trust someone who is like the above description. i don't respect my mom or any other woman.. woman are disgusting beings...the first thought you should have when you see a hot woman = what the fuck are her issues ... and she can blow my dick..the love and connection thing is fucking hilarious.. because you can have love and connection with everyone.. a womans brain is just picking out matches which increase her survival rate - that's all...AFCchode doesn't get the woman .. the guy who doesn't give a fuck fucks her. it's just funny how almost all woman are attracted and selects the asshole guys or the guys who do not give a shit... meanwhile the AFCchode is just sensitive and he wants a connection and love... why the fuck do you think woman rather be with the badboys ? how many AFC/guys are being around a woman for years and meanwhile she's just fucking the badboys ? i see it as this .. you got providing and mating ... woman are biological machines build for mating and reproduction nothing more .. they have no free will of their own - they are driven by emotions. they will backstab when they find something shinier...i see woman as cattle .. nothing more. look at this whole attraction thing , it just are some triggers based on certain stimuli... if you ever have doubt about a relationship or behaviours think about this : you are in africa on vacation.. suddenly it becomes a battlefield.. luckily you own a AK-47 with bayonet of course ( fuck yeah ). Rebels are walking towards your vacation cottage.. now you have a few options : 1. Grab the AK-47... clear the window .. shoot the shit out of them and protect your GF... 2. Give your Girlfriend the gun... watch it jam while insurgents are playing scrabble on your back. 3. try to compromise and offer them to rape your girlfriend.. 4. run away .. 5. calling your mom and crying about how fucked up things are ... ---- 1. Get your shit together .. lead and fight 2. give her control over the relationship ( not equal ) 3. try to please her meanwhile she fucks other dudes behind your back 4. break up because you are incapable to tell her to STFU 5. crying.. being chode and AFc.. it's simple... a woman cannot fight.. if you let a woman fight you die.. why let her take control over the relationship anyway..they cannot lead - when a woman controls something IT DIES... my brothers girlfriend has like 20 goldfishes.. THEY ALL DIED. my ex girlfriend got a cactus which she needs water like once every 5 months .. IT DIED... dude .. all woman can do is put make-up or their pancake faces and look pretty... they can give birth to children and raise them as chodes.. if a woman raises a boy it becomes a chode THE MAN DIES. give a woman a gun AND YOU DIE .. you know why .. because they are irrational and emotional.. instead of giving a woman ammunition you might as well grab a stinger missile and shoot yourself in the foot... dual wield uzi discharge ( with red dot sights and bayonet of course ) on your feet.

Author:	Mack 2.0 [ Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: good post mack... lol .. i don't want to ramble but im exactly the opposite lol .. everyday when i look in the mirror i have to tell myself to kill people out there otherwise im too nice ... Quote: a woman will never be your partner. she will also never be your friend. relationships will never be based on equality. women don't want "openness", they want "security". women don't want "partnership", they want a "leader". this is all about "mating", it's not about love and connection. people who think this isn't true don't know anything about pickup or woman... i have found out the hard way, it's better if you accept this shit now...im never going to trust a woman ever again in my whole fucking like .. im serious.. because .. you cannot trust someone who is like the above description. i don't respect my mom or any other woman.. woman are disgusting beings...the first thought you should have when you see a hot woman = what the fuck are her issues ... and she can blow my dick..the love and connection thing is fucking hilarious.. because you can have love and connection with everyone.. a womans brain is just picking out matches which increase her survival rate - that's all...AFCchode doesn't get the woman .. the guy who doesn't give a fuck fucks her. it's just funny how almost all woman are attracted and selects the asshole guys or the guys who do not give a shit... meanwhile the AFCchode is just sensitive and he wants a connection and love... why the fuck do you think woman rather be with the badboys ? how many AFC/guys are being around a woman for years and meanwhile she's just fucking the badboys ? i see it as this .. you got providing and mating ... woman are biological machines build for mating and reproduction nothing more .. they have no free will of their own - they are driven by emotions. they will backstab when they find something shinier...i see woman as cattle .. nothing more. look at this whole attraction thing , it just are some triggers based on certain stimuli... straight up also i love the way you turned AFCchode into one word! classic

Author:	Lodewijkp [ Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:
you have to understand .. they can't even fucking open a jar of pickles .. what the fuck man.. wtf

Author:	Txacoli [ Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: century, i see you struggling with this time and time again, from topic to topic. understand, that isn't an attack on you. rather it is an acknowledgement that i have been in your current "brainspace" before and i know the flood of questions (doubts) you are having based on all of this counterintuitive information you are getting. you seem like i guy (and i am by nature, as well) who is incredibly affectionate with your women. i am too (by nature). and you are trying to reconcile the difference between reading how you are "supposed" to act and how you naturally relate to people. and if you can't be yourself, then you can't be genuine, then everything is bullshit and for naught... right? i get ya, man. here is what i can say on this issue. i've struggled with many/most of the issues that you have posted here. from the trust issues, etc. let me tell you a story. i grew up. the son of a single mother and the little brother to a big sister. i was also the nephew to a single aunt. and occasionally would visit my surviving grandmother. little pattern there? i was raised by women. what's better? the little contact i had with my father was limited to: him beating me, or, learning how he had beat/terrorized my mother. good stuff, man. anyway, what's the point of that? context. background. the point is, not only was i raised by women. but i also had no decent male role model and no real-world example of what a normal relationship could/would even look like. so i coped. in the best way possible. trial-and-error. ok, now i'm rambling. so, anyway, i am in my mid-thirties. and i have by my very nature always been the following things with women: - attentive - respectful - supportive - connected - open (this is your issue here) - and, importantly, saw them/treated them as a "partner" 50/50 see that word ^open^ up there? thatis your issue. i've read your topics and seen this come up again and again. so i get that you are working on a deeper understanding and struggling with this concept. the paradox? "if i can not be open with my girlfriend, then it's all bullshit anyway" and "if i am open with my girlfriend, i will lose here" correct? thought so... so, back to my story... i am what you might call a serial monogamist. as stated before, time and time again, i am not a pua. i am a fully-recovered afc with pua tendencies, lol. which means, i've solidified my inner game and can pretty much pick up chicks when i want to, but choose not to because i'm busy as fuck, a single dad, back in college, and just out of an almost two-year hellish relationship that fucked my mind. (this relationship is the reason i sought out pua) and you could say pua saved my life (or at least my soul). string of relationships. i did everything right. and by "right" (of course), i mean i was respectful, attentive, supportive, connected, open, and a partner (all those qualities i listed earlier). they all failed. in the same ways. hmm, what's the common connection? well, it's "me" of course. my issue. niceness being taken for weakness. it's happened time and time again in my life. i am not weak. but i've been taken for weak in my life. not just in relationships, but also in friendships, acquaintences, business dealings, etc. why? because i was nice. the flip side, the thing that most people don't understand, is that i am "nice" because i can also be mean as fuck. i mean ruthless. like i said, i grew up being abused. violently. that leaves a mark on you and you tend to not like aggression, dominance, authority, etc. i'm the guy, who in school got picked on from time to time, because i was "nice". seemed like an easy target. until i would decide i had enough, then i beat the kid almost to death in the classroom and get expelled from school. six schools to be exact. lol. yep, pretty much you don't wanna fuck with me. i've had people ask me (after they start a fight with me, and while i am in the progress of nearly killing them) "why are you doing this?" why? because you threatened me. but you see, to most normal people. a fight is about "trading blows" and then it's over and then somebody brags and we all smile and dust it off. to me, a fight is a fight for absolute survival. animal instinct. and i have almost killed those who were unfortunate enough to lay a hand on me. i've even begged people to walk away after punching me in the face. this always gets an interesting reaction from the crowd, lol. anyway, goddammit, i am rambling again..... so, my point is: i am a nice guy. because i choose to be. i am not weak. it's a battle. every day i look in the mirror and say "be civilized out there, do the right thing, be a man of honor." each of my relationships has failed in the same way. being taken for "weak". why? because i am...naturally: - supportive - attentive - non-aggressive - open - and a partner mentality oops, what's that? classic beta traits^^^ instead of being: - dominant - aggressive - authoritarian - self-absorbed (kind of, the opposite of "open", if you think about it) wait, what's that again? classic alpha traits^^^ i was with the mother of my child for eleven years. she walked all over me. i tried time and time again to be "the nice guy". again, for my own dysfunctional reasons. not because i am a natural beta. but because i've tried real hard to not be my dad. the point is, i have an aversion to authority. i won't be under it, and i don't want to be over other people either. so, my natural tendency is partnership. what is the point to all of this self-indulgent bs rambling? the point is this: you can have very good and legitimate reasons for being who you are and how you are. it doesn't matter. as long as your traits emulate beta traits, you will be judged as such. i've had to come to a couple of very hard realizations after a lifetime of failed relationships. remember, i've been doing this "relationship" thing for almost twenty years. that's a long time to keep failing. and i've finally seen the pattern. it's obviously me. and one of my biggest weaknesses? how i perceived women, how i perceived men, how i perceived our respective roles in relationships, and how i had to accept that social dynamics is in play all the time, and it will not make exceptions for me being "me" just because what i went though in my earlier years. in the core "Mack" was never a weakling. he just had eccentric, irrelevant, and misguided notions of what it meant to be a good man / good boyfriend. hence... "Mack 2.0" i have realized that i have to assert my dominance. or i will be dominated. in my former perfect and damaged utopia, everybody is respectful and nobody has authority over anyone else. people behave like adults and everybody just gels and things run smoothly. this might be possible in my head. but my biggest realization was that THE WORLD DOES NOT WORK THIS WAY. again, you are saying "Mack, what in the fuck is the point here?" ok, i'll tie it all together for you. i know for a fact, that you (like me) have your own reasons for viewing women are partners and wanting to completely open with them. i don't know "what" your reasons are, but i know they exist. because i know what is in your mind as you struggle with this issue. now, a list of truths: a woman will never be your partner. she will also never be your friend. relationships will never be based on equality. women don't want "openness", they want "security". women don't want "partnership", they want a "leader". this is all about "mating", it's not about love and connection. it's horrible, i know, because it means guys like you and i are doomed to be pretty much unsatisfied with relationships, unless we can change our core ideas and expectations from a relationship. i no longer seek happiness from a woman. i am happy in and of myself. i workout, i work at my job, i go to college, i have my aspirations and my path in life. women come and go. i won't care anymore. and, maybe, with enough time and introspection, i can actually learn to be happy with a woman being "a leader and a mate" as opposed to "a friend and a partner". good luck. Mack, seriously, thank you for this, you've just made this whole question a lot clearer to me. This should be stickied. Thanks man!

Author:	Mack 2.0 [ Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:20 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Mack, seriously, thank you for this, you've just made this whole question a lot clearer to me. This should be stickied. Thanks man! you're welcome xoxo

Page 1 of 3	All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	Century100 [ Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:37 am ]
Post subject:
This advice is excellent, really the best you have given me Mack2.0 Which brings me to what I think is my final questions for now... Without being self absorbed - how can you be a leader yet supportive and have that work? And what are some signs that you are in control of the relationship? What does being "pushed over" include? Because I don't feel like I'm being pushed over, I feel like she's more invested than I, I feel like I am able to offer security as best as I can as a 19 year old dude, I dominate in sex (except for when I 'let' her "have her fun") yet as mentioned at the same time I am open/honest/supportive of her career ambitions/all that jazz. Why can't being supportive work, assuming you are still the leader in the relationship?