LMR or I'm not easy



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A Sticking Point or SP is an issue you CONSISTENTLY run into.

It is NOT a point where you get stuck with ONE SPECIFIC GIRL.

A Sticking Point is:
Quote:
I keep getting LMR whenever I bring girls back to my place. This has happened at least 10 times already! What am I doing wrong?
A Sticking Point is NOT:
Quote:
I got LMR with this one girl! What do I do?
IT IS AGAINST THIS BOARD'S RULES TO POST THREADS ABOUT JUST ONE GIRL
If you have not already gone out and practiced enough to have a real Sticking Point from meeting an ABUNDANCE of women, YOU DO NOT DESERVE TO POST HERE.



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 Post subject: LMR or I'm not easy
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:01 am 
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I'm noticing that girls that are very into me and obv want to come home with me are either LMRing or just don't want to appear easy when we go between venue and home.

How do you broach this subject in general, what lines do you use? so that it doesn't make it awkward or them feel like they should be saying no.

When I invite them back they say things like:
I think I should go home.
I'm catching the bus home.
How about we take it slow and get to know each other.

I've pulled on the last few occasions, usually by continuing the date to another location or walk, but I'm not sure if this is just something I should always expect or I'm doing something wrong in the lead up.


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 Post subject: Re: LMR or I'm not easy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:49 am 
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You're not giving girls plausible deniability; which is giving the girl a good reason to go home with you that is not sex related (like telling her to come to your house, just to see your music cd collection, and then you'll take her back home right after that). That way if she does have sex with you that night at your house, she can just say that she only came there just to see your music cd collection..and for nothing else, and things just happened! But it wasn't her idea..to imply that you tricked her into bringing her to your house and having sex with you.


So give girls "plausible deniability" when pulling them back to your house. Also pulling girls will go a hell of alot smoother if you "seed the pull" on the date earlier in time, long before you are pulling her back to your crib.


An Example of "Seeding The Pull" & "Plausible Deniability" Tactics While You're Out On The Date With Her Before You Pull Her Back To Your Crib


During The Date (Seeding The Pull Tactic)

HB: "Mmm..this food is so good! Thank you for taking me here for dinner"

You: "You're Welcome"

You: "So do you like alternative music?"

HB: "Yes, i do. Do you?"

You: "I do. I listen to alternative music all the time. As a matter of fact..i have a music cd collection at home, with some alternative music mixed in the bunch.

HB: "Oh really?..Cool!"


After The Date (Plausible Deniability Tactic)

You: "Did you have an awesome time?"

HB: "I sure did! Thank you!"

You: "Ok, so i'm going to take you home"

You: "But first, i'm going to show you my music cd collection that i told you about earlier real quick, and then i'll take you home right after that" (add in a couple of "false time constraints"..just to make her feel more comfortable)

HB: "Okay cool! I have no problem with that, i'm down"


-G

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LEARNING GAME IS LAME!..Right up until the point when you will eventually see a hot girl standing or sitting right in front of you. In that moment..you will wish that you had learned game!


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 Post subject: Re: LMR or I'm not easy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:22 pm 
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Its not what you say, its how you say it.

LMR is nothing more than a test that is easily overcome by confidence, certainty, and clear direction.

When a girl ask "What are we going to do at your house?" You can literary say. " We're going to watch movies, have drinks, and then we'll probably have sex, go to sleep and then go out for breakfast at the waffle house up the street in the morning". If it's done with the proper tone and confidence it does not matter. But you HAVE TO be SURE of yourself and certain and confident with your delivery.

I'm not one for plausible deniability because I feel like its sneaky. I rather look someone in their eyes and tell them what it is. With confidence though. Thats whats key. It's not the WHAT its the HOW. If giving plausible deniability makes you feel more confident inviting women over you will deliver it with much more confidence and its chances of working will be much higher than unconfidently saying what I said. But its the confidence thats key here. Not the words or technique.

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 Post subject: Re: LMR or I'm not easy
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:56 pm 
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Hey man,

I agree with the gist of what the poster above me said. It's all about how you say it. I don't really agree with doing 'plausibility "tactics" ' either, I just think stuff like that is really lame and gimmicky. It sub communicates weakness. Why do you need to jedi mind trick her into coming to home with you? Is your value really that low that you need to spend so much energy on trying to get her to want to come over??

Speaking about value, let's deal with the inner game portion of this first as this is the most important part. These girls that you're asking to come over and are saying no, if the situations were reversed, and you were them, would you go home with you? Would you go home with yourself? Would you want to fuck yourself? This is something that most pua's or guys trying to get better with women avoid asking, but it's the foundation. Take a hard look in the mirror and truly ask yourself that question. If you don't want to fuck yourself, why would she? And if not, then why? Is it because you're not in shape? Ok, then go work out. Because you don't feel successful? Ok, work on that. Because you're a loner who has no social connections or status? Ok, work on that. Whatever the fuck it may be, work on it. At the end of the day, you can put all lipstick on a pig you want in the form of game and 'tactics', it's still a pig. So, the foundation comes first. It'll make the game, mindset and so forth work so much more fluidly and you'll find yourself trying a lot less and needing less game to make things work. Things will be far more consistent too and you'll get higher quality girls and more of them.

Now for the game part. The poster before me explained it pretty well I think. It's an attitude. A mentality. The mentality is, I want you, you want me, I am caveman, I take you back to my cave. It's really as simple as that. Whenever you're stuck, ask yourself am I living by that mentality? What would a cave man do? And do that(short of breaking laws, of course...) The words, the things you say and how you say it all sort of flow from that mentality. You will mess up in the beginning and say weird shit because this mentality isn't fully adopted, but over time, you will have this mentality ingrained in you and you will have calibration. I've said all kinds of things to girls, from, them asking why should be go back to your place to me saying, "Because, I want to fuck your brains out" leaning in with a big smile, and they already know why I want them to come over based on our banter and flirting, to saying we're going to smoke and watch something and have a 'stimulating conversation', to I want to show them my 'rock collection' also with a big smile. And them being like,' no we're not fucking' kind of testing me and me being like, yes we are...no we're not... yes we are, if you get lucky ;-)" And just turn it around.It's all about just going with the flow. Some situations you can be more direct than others, and generally the best interactions for me I have been direct. But you'll have to find your comfort zone. The mentality is, I am leading, I am fucking you tonight and be playful too. And at the end of the day, some girls will be down with it and some won't. And you live with that and move on to the next one. And some,many, will be down.


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 Post subject: Re: LMR or I'm not easy
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:03 pm 
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I can appreciate where you both are coming from, but you guys kill me with all this just be natural BS. You're acting like there isn't actually a strategy to this game. Say what you wanna say, but i mean..the strategies like i used in my example gets me laid. So i really don't see what the problem is. They may seem cliche..but if it works, dammit it works!


It's easy for you to say "just be natural or confident" or "just go with the flow" if you've already built up that confidence from being in the game over the years, and having tons of experience with women.


If you've been in the game for a while, then of course you can manifest good inner game and confidence like that. But what about a newbie to the game who is not confident with women and he doesn't know what to do with a girl from open to close? He probably knows what "just be natural or confident" or "just go with the flow" means logically, but he won't be able to put that into real-time action in the field. Just telling him to be natural and confident, and "go with the flow" won't help him at all. He still needs a road map (steps and techniques) of what he needs to do while he's with the girl. The confidence and natural stuff will come later on, after he has accumulated experience in the field, and then he doesn't need to use the techniques anymore. They will then just become second nature to him.


The example that i gave him was just a road map, or a strategy that he could use that will actually help him solve his particular sticking point, that he can apply to his game right now. The inner game route that you both are suggesting takes time and experience. He can choose to try you guys advice or try to use my strategy, and he'll see for himself which actually solves his problem for him the quickest.


What you guys are saying here, is no different than telling guys to "Just be yourself". And how much has that ever helped anybody?


Yeah..My point exactly.



-G

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LEARNING GAME IS LAME!..Right up until the point when you will eventually see a hot girl standing or sitting right in front of you. In that moment..you will wish that you had learned game!


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 Post subject: Re: LMR or I'm not easy
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:05 am 
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I'd have to wonder what's going on on the date to where she is responding the way the OP says? If you're having a good date where there is a connection, it's more likely the girl wants to see what will happen next. If you are trying to convince her then it may be because the connection isn't quite where it should be. The problem isn't seeding and plausible deniability. There is a lack of seduction in the entire process and these ego protection routines are killing guys when it comes to pickup. If you get a girl out on a date then connect with her. Don't treat her like someone that you are trying to get to know. Treat her like someone you like and know that she likes you. Flirt, affection, conversation, and lead to where you want to go. Push your boundaries, be okay with failing, and then adjust for the next girl if you can't create the connection. If you are connecting and appealing to her sense of passion, as opposed to trying to present yourself as her next boyfriend, you'll have less problems pulling her home.

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 Post subject: Re: LMR or I'm not easy
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:36 am 
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The issue of there possibly being a lack of connection, as stated by JackZero..i can agree with that.

-G

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LEARNING GAME IS LAME!..Right up until the point when you will eventually see a hot girl standing or sitting right in front of you. In that moment..you will wish that you had learned game!


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 Post subject: Re: LMR or I'm not easy
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:59 pm 
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Hey G, I hear you. But I never said “just be yourself”. It may sound like we are giving just the same old cliche advice but we are not. To someone who has been ingrained in techniques and patterns, it will sound that way. And I hear you, what you do probably works, but it has its limitations and those limitations are massive. I know because I used to approach game that way. I used to plan out all of these tactics and routines and honestly, it wasn’t worth all the effort I put in. Sure it worked, but it depends on your definition of worked. Often times the girl after I hooked up with her wasn’t interested in me anymore after she found out who I really was behind the gimmicks and tricks, and trust me, they will find out... not to mention how much time and energy it took to employ all of these tactics was ridiculous. I spent so much energy trying to pick girls up, too much actually to the point where it actually put off a lot of girls because they could see through my bullshit. It wasn’t attractive.
And no, we aren’t saying don’t have strategy. You should absolutely have strategy. I named 2 for example. Getting yourself attractive and adopting the mentality of a man/leader/caveman and doing what someone with that mentality would do, the difference is that I’m looking at the big picture while you’re looking st the micro details. You’re talking about giving him a fish, I’m trying to teach homeboy how to fish. Sure it takes longer, but its infinitely more valuable. Besides, his problems sound more inner game related then pure newbie I don’t know where to start sorts of problems. I agree with Jack that there’s probably connection missing as well. Remember, there can’t be only attraction, connection is vital as well, even you’re only looking to hook up, some connection. needs to be there. And don’t do it in order to hook up, then it’s fake, do it because your a mammal and she’s a mammal, and mammals are evolutionarily hardwired to want to connection so it should be enjoyable(to most of us, atleast).


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 Post subject: Re: LMR or I'm not easy
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:52 pm 
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Trust me..i'm all about inner game. My 3rd year into pickup was almost me working exclusively on my inner game. I'm fully aware of that aspect of the game. Just read my past posts. I talk all about inner game in-depth, so obviously i'm no stranger to it. I also posted before, about guys should be aiming to make a connection with girls (actually care to get to know the girl on a deep level and try to make an emotional connection with her). From what i read from OP, it just seemed to me like his issue was more technical.


There's an inner game aspect to game for sure, but there's also a technical aspect to game as well. The inner game stuff definitely helps..i'm not knocking it at all. But don't knock the technical side as well. But again..it just seemed like to me that his issue is technical..it could very well be an inner game issue as well. Why not both? A guy can be confident, self-amused, in-state, and feeling entitled to the girl (the inner game side of game)..but if he doesn't know when to lead the girl physically (when to bounce the girl from venue to venue), when to listen to her and not talk, when to challenge her & when to reel her back in (push/pull), when to touch her (kino), what to say, what not to say, when to kiss her, when to be assertive, when to take a step back, and when to pull her back to the crib (when her buying temperature is at it's peak), etc. (the technical side of game)..it doesn't matter how good his inner game is, he still won't be able to close the deal with her. Because he messed up somewhere in the seduction process, that might've not necessarily been inner game related. So proper game needs both good inner game as well as good technique, that's all i'm saying here guys.


-G

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LEARNING GAME IS LAME!..Right up until the point when you will eventually see a hot girl standing or sitting right in front of you. In that moment..you will wish that you had learned game!


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 Post subject: Re: LMR or I'm not easy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:28 am 
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Thanks guys, great replies. In particular like Eddie's take on it.

Definitely felt a bit sheepish about inviting them back, so this makes sense. That said, lack of technique has held me back, even on nights when I've had unstoppable energy.

Here's a few things I'm going to change/work on:
- be confident, forward and tactful about my intentions
leave earlier and talk about later, I often stay late and get tired and find myself outside with them with no plan
- get to know them and build connection beyond the physical, I often just make-out and dance for ages without talking much once I feel I'm "in"
- Think a lot more about fucking myself :)

Other thoughts

Have used the plausible deniability angle a bit and it certainly worked, but found it lead to more buyer's remorse and less repeat business. It has it's place in some situations but holistically being more forward and open is a better framework.

One key exception is when you are regularly sleeping with a women, here it's actually better to say, hey do you want to come over for a cup of tea/watch a movie, cause you're intentions are already clear and you are just being polite and showing you don't mind hanging and chatting a bit too, girls appreciate this.

Overall both are important, and the goal is to get to a point where you pass the shit tests a lot earlier in the night and they are they ones saying let's get out of here.


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 Post subject: Re: LMR or I'm not easy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:09 am 
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i can tell you how i do it,i was at the girls apartment,we were sitting on the couch,drank beer and having fun while listening to music.
she kissed me twice,but she said that there will be no sex so i shouldn't hope for it,i said sure,no problem,then she kissed me again,so i started kissing her,laid on her,kissed her on her neck,when she started groaning i took her clothes off,i wasn't paying attention to her words,she kissed me,no words or approval needed,i acknowledged and ignored her words and did what i would do anyway


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 Post subject: Re: LMR or I'm not easy
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:19 am 
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Quote:
Definitely felt a bit sheepish about inviting them back
And you can bet women pick up on that. Your lack of confidence when asking her over implies a couple things:

1. This is new for you (lol).
2. You aren't very good with women.
3. You aren't dominant in bed.


I'll invite a girl over, and if she says "for what?" I usually don't even reply. I'll let her hang on the words, because when she asks "for what?" it's more of a nervous auto-response on her part, than it is an actual question. If she's really nervous, I'll diffuse it with something like, "I want to show you my collection of painted ceramic gnomes."

I agree with some of the other posters here, and don't play the Plausible Deniability Tactic game AT ALL. In fact, I shred it apart and make fun of it with my "gnome" line. It's an ancient, and unnecessary tactic that acts as training wheels.

Quote:
- be confident, forward and tactful about my intentions
Yep.
Quote:
leave earlier and talk about later, I often stay late and get tired and find myself outside with them with no plan
I follow a 45 minute rule typically.

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 Post subject: Re: LMR or I'm not easy
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:53 am 
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Quote:
i can tell you how i do it,i was at the girls apartment,we were sitting on the couch,drank beer and having fun while listening to music.
she kissed me twice,but she said that there will be no sex so i shouldn't hope for it,i said sure,no problem,then she kissed me again,so i started kissing her,laid on her,kissed her on her neck,when she started groaning i took her clothes off,i wasn't paying attention to her words,she kissed me,no words or approval needed,i acknowledged and ignored her words and did what i would do anyway
Been there, done that, buyers remorse, no repeat business, not a fan.

Quote:
Quote:
Definitely felt a bit sheepish about inviting them back
And you can bet women pick up on that. Your lack of confidence when asking her over implies a couple things:

1. This is new for you (lol).
2. You aren't very good with women.
3. You aren't dominant in bed.


I'll invite a girl over, and if she says "for what?" I usually don't even reply. I'll let her hang on the words, because when she asks "for what?" it's more of a nervous auto-response on her part, than it is an actual question. If she's really nervous, I'll diffuse it with something like, "I want to show you my collection of painted ceramic gnomes."

I agree with some of the other posters here, and don't play the Plausible Deniability Tactic game AT ALL. In fact, I shred it apart and make fun of it with my "gnome" line. It's an ancient, and unnecessary tactic that acts as training wheels.

Quote:
- be confident, forward and tactful about my intentions
Yep.
Quote:
leave earlier and talk about later, I often stay late and get tired and find myself outside with them with no plan
I follow a 45 minute rule typically.

Like the 45 min rule of thumb, will use it next time.

Spot on about the in-bed-confidence, still getting use to fucking good with a condom on.


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 Post subject: Re: LMR or I'm not easy
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:37 pm 
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Just lead the frame, and lead it early. Lead the conversation and the girl to where you want things to go by the end of the date. State and confidence is awesome, but you aren't always "in-state" or necessarily confident all of the time..no one is, i don't care what anybody says. Because human emotion and state of mind changes all the time. Relying on state and confidence to pick up girls is unsustainable. But you can consistently have a game plan, and you can consistently have a leading mind frame.


-G

_________________
LEARNING GAME IS LAME!..Right up until the point when you will eventually see a hot girl standing or sitting right in front of you. In that moment..you will wish that you had learned game!


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