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Is Social Proof really THAT essential?
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Author:  BlackBull [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:41 am ]
Post subject:  Is Social Proof really THAT essential?
After one particular day of approaching(2 number closes,about 13 "Um...ok...who are you's),I've started to think "What am I missing?"

My inner game is stable,openers(Usually centered on "Did you see that(Random thing or event)5 min ago?)work,then I ask them their opinion on what they think of the random thing,and they tell me things I can continue a convo with.

Thing is,I'll get up to the #close,only to find out that they live far,and drive.

After thinking about it,I question,not my motives,or my confidence,but rather,my situation.

As I may have stated before,I grew up,practically as an atheltic nerd.I always spent my time out of school either in Tae Kwon Do/Judo or studying.As a child,I found it hard to talk to other kids my age.I was treated as "different",and everyone around me told me that it was because I was smarter than kids my age,and therefore,treated differently,like an outcast.The only things I had going for me was an IQ of 172,a strong physique,and my self-sufficiency.

Because of that,I really never developed any social skills,and was constantly made fun of and treated like shit.Even when I fought people,they still hated me,because I was different.

This went on till Freshman Year of high school,where people were more tolerant,yet still made their own cliques.I never had a clique in HS,nor belonged to one.I lived by my own rules and lifestlye,drumming to my own beat,not because I wanted to,but rather,I had no choice.

So now,at 18,after busting my ass to become confident and somewhat socially smart,I can say that I'm set for sucess in college and afterwards.However,I currently have no friends,other than my next door neighbhor,who is an angry AFC.

I have no social circle,no car,no job(After hundreds of filled applications),no comments on myspace or facebook(Which is really not a big deal in the end,but still bothersome),and no people to turn to.

All the pick up work I do is almost always by myself,no wingman,no social proof,no support,no comfort.I've made it far on my own,but It's getting harder to progress past the #Close to First Date,as women can be VERY judgemental about material value(ALL women have some sort of complexity about material things).At this point,I can get any woman's number.I just find it hard to go on a first date with her in charge of transport,paying,and destination.It's like I'm being held back,not given a chance to show my potential.

Now,this isn't a "Oh,poor BlackBull" post.I told the summary of my history just to paint a clear picture of where I come from.

It's just...Is social proof required to progress with women?I dont want to lie and pretend I have a social life,only to have them find out I'm a fraud.I dont want to give her all the power when i dont even have a choice in the matter.

I've been combating this situation for a while,and honestly,It's taking a toll on my psyche.It's not a matter of lack of confidence.It's just that "life" is holding me back from acheiving,against my will,in a way in which I cant do shit about it.Please help.

And,this is not to be taken in a negative light.Rather,It's just a neutral,honest,question,that has been bugging me for the past 2 weeks.

Thanks.
Author:  moa4720 [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:56 am ]
Post subject: 
The answer to your question is no, social proof is not required to get anywhere with women. Let me give you a very brief background history on myself. My dating life went like this. Virgin until 22-->>prostitute-->>hooking up with random internet sluts-->>more prostitutes-->>dating a girl for 2 weeks-->>(starting to learn pickup).

i have no friends, no one comments on my myspace or facebook. i am 23, live with my parents. most people dislike me greatly and cannot stand me (but screw them they are all nerds who never go out).

since i've started pickup i've had a great deal of #closes, many kiss closes, and one fuck close. needless to say social proof means jack shit. it's all about continuing to learn and practice, and confidence.
Author:  VanHaven [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:45 am ]
Post subject: 
When you walk into a room, own it. Find your target and start talking to people randomly on your way to her. She will see what a social and confident person you are and be waiting for her turn to speak to you. If a female is willing to converse with you, you've got all the social proof you need. No amount of tricks and rountines can change that unless you prefer being there for her entertainment.
Author:  Apollo [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:56 am ]
Post subject: 
I didn't feel like reading all the posts above this one, but to answer the title of the topic: yes.
Author:  SlickRick [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:59 am ]
Post subject: 
social proof is needed but it doesn't mean you have to be a handsome millionare... you make yourself to what you think you are.

If you think your worthless than you are. Thats why before you even go to approach a girl you have to find and realize the things you have to offer and why any women would be lucky and interested to have you. Only once you have your mind in the right place will you feel socially comfortable.

It's like any physical activity...if your constantly afraid and thinking of how your going to get hurt, then you will get hurt, a self-fullfilling prophecy through negative thought.

Essentially social proof is needed b/c social proof in many ways equals inner game (aka. confidence and other stuff that will show through your personality as an important person)... thats where you should start and the rest will fall into place.
Author:  Slick85 [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:59 am ]
Post subject: 
I got an F close with a girl with not that much social proof, I blew off most of the guys at the party cause I'm cooler than them, or at least I think I am hahaha
Author:  SlickRick [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I got an F close with a girl with not that much social proof, I blew off most of the guys at the party cause I'm cooler than them, or at least I think I am hahaha
guessing that F-Close was at a college party, very possibly frat? lol.

Trust me nearly no social proof is needed there in many cases ...just a drunk girl and be at the right place at the right time. But if you want constant success w/ sober coherent women that actually are looking for something specific, social proof and value is very very helpful and almost neccesary.
Author:  Apollo [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Trust me nearly no social proof is needed there in many cases ...just a drunk girl and be at the right place at the right time.
Not true at all. I have been to frat parties before I joined the game and after. Huge difference. Doesn't matter if you are at a frat party or a bar. Girls are girls and the more social proof you have, the more they want you. Drunkness doesn't stop that. But if you are sober and she is drunk and you game that, you are messed up.

Also, just so you guys know. If both you and a girl are drunk and she tells you she wants to have sex and the next day she regrets it and she files rape, you will be charged for rape. Drunken consent doesn't hold in court. The male is responsible.
Author:  SlickRick [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:27 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
Trust me nearly no social proof is needed there in many cases ...just a drunk girl and be at the right place at the right time.
Not true at all. I have been to frat parties before I joined the game and after. Huge difference. Doesn't matter if you are at a frat party or a bar. Girls are girls and the more social proof you have, the more they want you. Drunkness doesn't stop that. But if you are sober and she is drunk and you game that, you are messed up.

Also, just so you guys know. If both you and a girl are drunk and she tells you she wants to have sex and the next day she regrets it and she files rape, you will be charged for rape. Drunken consent doesn't hold in court. The male is responsible.
yes i'm agreeing w/ you...i was just responding to a comment which said social proof is not needed for a lay someone had and i disagreed stating that you can get laid w/o it but thats no game that can just happen.

And for the record my main venue is bassically large frat parties; i'm against one-night stands in most cases and 100% esspecially if a girl is drunk.
Author:  Apollo [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:29 am ]
Post subject: 
Oh... Sorry... Misinterpreted... haha
Author:  BlackBull [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:44 am ]
Post subject: 
Well,so far,it seems that Social proof does make a difference.

Sucks,but,as all of life's processes go,it must be mastered,and overtaken.

I guess it's more a matter of me not knowing what sucess is...yet.

I'm guessing at this point of my life,and my gaming career,things arent moving forward yet.Instead of slacking,I take initiative to master what I can right now,which is mainly inner game,and opening.That is going very well for me.

Still,on having no car,and no friends to do stuff with,it's tough.I try not to make gaming girls take up my whole life,but with the way my life's been set up(Not by me,but by circumstance),It's pretty much "wake up,eat,practice my DJing,go out and meet women/experiment,nap for an hour,hit the gym,come home,play DDR,sleep".

It's because of this I dont want to go farther than #closing and flirting with girls.Everyone says "Live an exciting life",but practicing on my DJ program on my comp and playing DDR wouldn't really get a girl going.I know,deep inside,If I had the opportunity(A car,decent job to pay for car,social circle),I'd have been on my way to becoming a master PUA(No arrogance intended,I just feel it).

I know some of you will say "Do different thing to make life more exciting".Believe me,I want to.Currently,I cant.It's hard to explain,and it has nothing to do with me holding MYSELF back.I'm perfectly relaxed and open about the situation,it's just i'm getting annoyed at being held back by what I cant control.

I'm just sick and tired of my only 2 friends(One natural,one AFC) telling me I'm not even trying,when they dont know the countless hours I put busting my ass to learn the game,and the failures I had to suck up.

...i apologize for getting a bit emotional here.I just need some guidance here.I'm fine with my inner game and who I am.It's just frustration and confusion.
Author:  SlickRick [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:52 am ]
Post subject: 
buddy... its really funny that you sound just like my friend. Bassically what it comes down to is your making excuses for yourself instead of doing anything.

And from what i understand your friends are only busting your balls so you shape up. If you really wanted it you would do something and not make up excuses why you can't change.

And as far as changing your lifestyle well you don't. Do w/e you feel passionate about but leave that seperate for when you go out, the girl doesn't give a shit if you like DDR and DJ'ing unless its brought up as an interest so all that shit has nothing to do w/ your game.

Talk about her, talk about life, talk about philosophy... honestly its just words you can talk about anything and be anybody as long as you genuinely connect it to yourself somehow.

I'm telling you, your situation sounds exactly like the case w/ my shut in friend and when it comes down to it theres nothing holding you back but yourself. Good luck.


edit: and for the record i have a nice car, money, and w/o being a bragging jerk i will say looks and trust me it means NOTHING except to gold digger types and there just as bad as paying a hooker for sex in my book, a nice genuine girl will not car if your rich, after all she's looking for a fun date, not a sugar daddy marriage.
Author:  Apollo [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:53 am ]
Post subject: 
I would find new wings. Making friends isn't too tough. I would go meet some guys who would make good wings, and if they are AFCs, teach them the game, then make them your wings.

You don't need criticism from friends, so I am not saying to ditch your old friends, but don't limit yourself only to them.

Use your napping or DDR time to go and socialize. When you are at the gym, find a work out partner and go from there (just watch that you don't come off gay, because if you are inviting a gym partner out, it might seem that way). Find an old friend and invite him to come out. Etc.

In regard to things not moving foreward for you, this is just a wall that everyone hits in everything they try to become good at. I just hit a wall at the gym recently where it seemed like I wasn't improving weight at all. But, if you push through it, you should see a more noticable difference. Just keep with it and the improvement will be more drastic than before.

If you need anything, shoot me a PM.
Author:  Apollo [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:55 am ]
Post subject: 
Also, more importantly, you DO NOT need a wing to sarge. If you want to continue to improve and can't find a wing, go solo. You gain massive confidence if you can sarge solo without back-up.
Author:  Mech [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I didn't feel like reading all the posts above this one, but to answer the title of the topic: yes.
QFT. Social proof can be something as simple as getting people to laugh at your jokes.
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