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| JPOW's Holistic Online Dating Guide-- Feedback Welcomed https://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=128120 |
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| Author: | jpow1981 [ Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | JPOW's Holistic Online Dating Guide-- Feedback Welcomed |
I've received a lot of emails recently from guys asking me for help with online dating. Frankly, it took me YEARS to master this stuff, and I wish I had someone to teach me how to do this stuff, so in response to a recent email, I decided to try to summarize what works best for me, my friends and those who have asked for my help. I'm giving this info away on the sole condition that you understand that this is YEARS worth of experience, and that my expectation is that you will pay it forward, once you've mastered this material yourself. If you have any questions, I'll do my best to clarify. The best way to reach me is by email: johnnyd.powers@gmail.com. I have included suggested readings. You will get a LOT out of each reading. I do not subscribe to any single system. I don't believe that they work, unless the person who developed the system has very similar goals, expectations, looks and personality to yours. This manual is designed to assist all kinds of users, but it won't do the work for you. You'll still have to put in the effort. I was influenced by the readings mentioned below, however what's written in this manual is based on my experience meeting over 80 women online. About the Author: I got started down the internet dating path in 2005. It took me 3-4 years to get really good at it. There's been several LTRs during this period. I'd estimate that over the course of the 3 years that I was single, I met over 80 women online. It has been my primary mode of meeting women. Ideally, this should be a relatively small part of your game, but it works for me, so I don't really care! In recent months, I've met 8s, 9s and 10s ranging from underwear models, veterinarians and nurses to PHD candidates, lawyers and investment advisors. In the interest of being transparent, I'm not ugly. I learned a lot about calibration as I gained and then lost 50 lbs during this period. My photos on OKCupid's Yourbestface App now range from high 60's-low 80's. I'm not David Beckham, but I'm not Ron Howard's weird looking brother, either. I'm 5'9 and 3/4, so I list myself at 5'10, and I have a few muscles, but no one is confusing me for Vin Diesel any time soon. I round myself up to having an athletic body, but I'm probably high end of "Average". JPow's Internet Dating Manual Disclaimer Online dating is not easy. But, the good news is that there's pretty much a direct correlation between effort and success. Even if you are a total AFC, the more emails you send, the better your odds are at getting a response. Your odds are greatly improved if you have a congruent, interesting profile, complete with photos that make you seem fun and interesting. Attitude Have fun doing it. If you're not having fun, it won't work for you. Enjoy the process of coming up with fun and interesting material, and testing it out. Don't expect responses from women. Its a lot like playing poker. If you have fun doing it then the outcome isn't important, and you'll actually yield better results. Maybe even more than with real life game, Internet Game is a numbers game. If you hit a dead end, move on to the next girl. There is basically an endless supply of women online. Understand that womens' motivations for being online is not necessarily to meet guys. Some want an ego-boost. Measure of Success No matter how much you work at it, you may never receive unsolicited emails from girls. That's OK. The most attractive female users NEVER send out unsolicited emails anyways! Measure your success in terms of replies, not unsolicited emails. Understand that 9s and 10s don't necessarily receive as much email as 7s and 8s. Don't put too much stock into which girls are emails back and which ones aren't. Before I review some of the major online dating sites that I've tried, I'm going to teach you how to build a profile. I should preface this section by saying that you will yield better results if your entire profile from the photos on down reflect not only your personality and interests, but also who you are targeting. How to Build Your Profile Decide on what you're interested in. Younger women, older women, smart women, girls looking to have fun and casual dating or long term serious dating, etc. Tailor your profile according to your target. Don't use anyone else's words verbatim, ever, unless they are looking for the exact same thing as you, and have similar photos and looks. Everything needs to be gauged and calibrated to what you're like and what you're looking for to achieve best results. If you put in the effort, they will come to you. Congruence Write your profile with your target demographic in mind. This includes your photos and emails. Congruence is crucial. Women are smart. Your profile shouldn't only indicate what it is that you're looking for, but the reader should also be able to infer your intentions by reading it. It should convey a consistent message. Don't say you want a girlfriend in one section, and state that you want a FWB in another. Your entire profile should suggest that you have a great life, and the studies show that you should come across as positive, not negative. Try work in (naturally, and without forcing it) where a woman fits into your lifestyle and what you're looking for in a relationship. Women generally picture themselves as a part of a lifestyle. Organization Your profile should be organized in a way that makes it easy to follow. I suggest starting out with one section qualifying the girl, and then another where you qualify yourself. Within these sections, make sure that it is clear to the woman where she would fit in. Whether its occasionally getting together for fun, or spending quality time together. Also make sure she gets where she wouldn't be involved-- for example, that you need alone time to swear at the TV when basketball is on. *Shoulds* for the Overall Tone Casual Dating • A photo of you bungee jumping or similar • Photos of you laughing with your friends • Talk about what makes you fun and exciting • Suggest fun and exciting (non-sexual) activities that the two of you might participate in. Long Term Relationships • One photo of you in a suit • Photos of you with animals • Talk about how you love your job • Talk about what makes you classy Play Up Your Strengths • Show off your best characteristics in your photos, even if they will be unpopular to some. o Studies show that people who turn off some and attrack others yield better results than those who appeal to everyone. (OKTrends) • Talk about/show off your talents • Don't talk about your shortcomings unless they're harmless and can be framed in a funny way (ex: inability to do math) Photos Read this: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/dont- ... -accident/ • Women read profiles more closely than men, but its only if they like your photos that they'll bother. ***90% of your profile's value is in the photos.*** Frankly, if you have GREAT photos, you will do well, even without a profile. • You don't have to be a model, (even if it does help). • ALWAYS HAVE A PHOTO. Worst case, if you're famous or wanted or whatever, put up a caricature of yourself, or an interesting photo not of you. Having a photo makes it much more likely that you'll get a response. • Make sure that you pick good ones. They should show you having fun, enjoying yourself or doing something interesting, that would give the target a chance to grab onto something and start a conversation. Think of it as peacocking, without the stupid accessories or obnoxiously loud clothing (no offense to the peacockers out there. Whatever works for you is fine by me). For example, a photo of you hang-gliding across Easter Island, or riding bareback on a camel in front of the Pyramids gives a woman much more to ask you or compliment you about than a photo of you on your front steps. o Take pictures everywhere you go. The more you have to choose from, the better. • MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE WELL DRESSED IN ANY NON-ATHLETIC PHOTO. For ideas, pick up GQ, or better yet, read Glenn O'Brien's "How to Be a Man". You can find a copy at most good book stores. • Have other people take photos of you. Most of them should show you looking away from the camera, candid style. • If you have a great body, slip a shirtless photo of yourself in there. (OKTrends) Just make sure its not of you flexing in front of a mirror. Make it a candid, of you on a beach, or playing basketball or volleyball outdoors. Don't make it your main photo. It is a turnoff for 99% of women if they think that you are a narcissist. Cocky=good, more concerned with your appearance than they are=bad. • When in doubt, grab a female friend, or better yet, use a photo rating site to figure out which are your best photos. User Names, Professions, Height and Weights Read this book: Freakonomics: A Rogue Economist Explores the Hidden Side of Everything By Steven D. Levitt, Stephen J. Dubner (pages 73 and following) User Names and Tag-Lines • Your user name should be something that doesn't come across as weird. You should NEVER have 69 in it. If your user-name is "9inchcock69", you could look like Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise's lovechild, and no one will respond. • Use tagline and user name to suggest value, without using giant clichés or, alternatively, something that qualifies the woman. Think words or short phrases from movies, songs and television shows. This gives you an additional bonus of women latching onto one of your favourite movies, TV show or record to start a conversation with you. Height and Weight • I NEVER LIE (on my profile). I don't see the point. The average man exaggerates his height considerably, but then when a woman greets him in her heels, she'll be disappointed, and won't trust him. What kind of footing is that to start off on? • Round up for height, and down for weight, body type, etc. Give yourself the benefit of the doubt; but don't outright lie. Long-term, there's no real benefit to it, only drawbacks. Professions • Women don't like students, according to Freakonomics. Most students have jobs, so focus on making your part-time job sound interesting, and mention that you are doing this while working on your degree in the "About Me" section. Ambition gets you far with quality women, but students aren't seen as valid options for a lot of women. "I'm looking for" Section Read: Robert Cialdini's Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion Be very specific (within reason). By posting up very specific criteria, for reasons having to do with consumer behaviour, you'll actually yield better results with women who don't fit the criterion you list. By being specific you are actually more likely to have a woman who is 5'3 email you if you say that you have to be 5'4 to email you. Use this section to qualify women. Having high standards suggests value. Your standards should be set somewhere between impossible to find and nice to have. Complain about the low quality of emails/emailers that you receive, thus demonstrating pre-selection and improving the quality of responses you receive. Suggest a few topics of discussion that someone might bring up with you, making it really easy for the emailer to send you messages. The Freakonomics' study states that women prefer men who want to be in relationships, but don't lie. Don't try to dupe a woman into sleeping with you. That's just bad karma, and I don't endorse it. If you are open to a relationship, say that you're looking for a relationship. If you're not open to a relationship, say that you're looking for dating. Try not to put in seeking "Intimate Encounters" or "Casual Dating" unless there's no honest way to say otherwise. "About Me" Section Cocky and Funny I learned through gaining and then losing 50 lbs, that your level of confidence should be inversely related to how attractive you are. If you look like George Cloney, you should be humble, and even a bit of a goofball. If you look like Steve Buschemi, you should be cocky as fuck. Writing about Yourself Watch/Hear/Listen to Chet from DYD/ (http://www.chetsdatingsystem.com/welcome.aspx) This section is where you get to have fun. Paint a picture of what you're like. Instead of saying "I'm fun, hilarious and smart", put some effort into making your profile fun, hilarious and intelligent! Qualify yourself unapologetically. With each item that you include, ask yourself how you would react if these were the first words coming out of a guy's mouth. Quirky is good, but if you would find the guy to be weird, or strange, don't include it. • Come off as comfortable with using Internet Dating. o Some experts say otherwise, but bottom line is that if you're uncomfortable, or seem uncomfortable, so will your target. • Make it seem as if you're used to female attention. • Make sure that your best traits are listed, and tailored to your target audience. • Talk about things that are easy for a woman to grab onto o True Blood yes, Vlad Guerrerro's OBP No. • Come across as high-class. o Quality over quantity • Be Fun! o Regardless of what you're looking for, if you're not fun and playful, women won't be as interested. • Don't be goofy. o Quirky is good, but clownish or goofy is bad. Women won't take you seriously. Interests • List specifics. If you like chocolate, list your favourite brand instead of being generic. Try to be positive. Don't talk about what you hate, unless its mean people. • Don't say you like TV, name the shows. List reality TV shows, but don't lie. • Talk about sports if you're interested in them, but don't go on at length about it. Most women won't be interested. • Mention your favourite video game, but don't prattle on about it. 40% of gamers are women, but the majority's eyes glaze over when you mention them. o If you have to talk about video games, make it about Mario. Emails See: David M's Insider Internet Dating (http://www.insiderinternetdating.com/) Read: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/onlin ... t-message/ Your emails are more important than your profile. No one will check out your profile if your email weirds them out. Make sure that your emails are consistent with the message that your profile conveys. Similar to your profile, hit on the following, in a well-organized way: 1. Qualify yourself, using characteristics not used in your profile 2. Qualify the girl: ask her two or three survey-type questions that require her to put a little thought into it, but are not too difficult to answer. 3. Mention what you're looking for in a relationship 4. Suggest where she might fit in. Use a template, but customize it for each target Women can sniff out a standard email, and won't respond to it. Instead, draft up a **well-written** email that you put some time into. It should come across as if you just wrote it, so make sure to include a spot where you mention some items from her profile that interested you. • Do's o Bust on her for an inconsistency, or something weird, or a singular errant spelling mistake but be fun about it. Accuse her of being a perv, if she says something suggestive. Read into things • No one wants to be lectured or talked down to, make sure she understands its all in good fun if it isn't obvious. Bust on her harder if she's hot. o Compliment honestly on her style, her writing or her taste. o Mention one or two shared interests. 90% of guys pretend to be interested in what she's interested in, so don't focus too hard on this. If you don't genuinely share interests, don't mention it. o Show genuine interest. o Instruct her on what the next step should be (email back). o Act like you're interested. o Use full words and proper grammar. o Make the initial email at least 100 words long. • Dont's o Feign interest in anything. o Compliment her for her physical appearance. o Write a novel. Focus on qualifying yourself and her. o Solicit a girl for sex in an opening email. o Make overtly sexual comments in a first email unless the girl specifies she is interested in sex only. o Act like this girl is your soulmate. o Thank a girl for responding. o Make apologies for who you are or what you wrote. o Use internet speak. o TyP3 LyK tHisss. Follow Up Emails Surprisingly, you can get women to write you back even if they didn't respond the first time. I would estimate about 1/4 of women will respond with the second attempt with a well formulated email, depending on your photos and profile, but you don't need to customize this one, so it takes very little time. Economically, it is worth it to send a follow up. • Make sure that they don't feel like you are trying to guilt the target. o Try to trigger their sense of consistency and ego. o Make sure that they understand that you understand that there are many good reasons why she didn't answer you, completely unrelated to your profile or email. List some. o Don't ask why she didn't write back. When to Ask for the Number In my own experience, girls are most likely to give out their numbers after you've sent off 1-3 emails, and then again after sending 10+. There is a high number of women online who want an ego-boost, and aren't interested in meeting in person. If you're interested in taking on penpals, that's cool, but most of us are hopefully in it to meet girls in real life. If you carry on past 12-15 emails, you risk getting stuck in penpal land. For the sake of economy, I suggest asking for the number as soon as she's indicated that she's interested in you, ideally after 1-3 emails. Most of the time, if a girl isn't comfortable giving out her number, she won't end the conversation. If she is a 9 or 10, consider continuing to build comfort for up to 10 emails and then ask again. Past this point, I would not proceed. She is not serious about meeting people. Escalating to the Phone Instant messenger is good to the extent that it allows someone who isn't social to take their time and phrase things correctly. It is also a good place to test out new material. However, it is also usually a waste of time. Comfort is not really built until you meet in person. Girls are rarely on instant messenger, so I like to skip this step if possible. Texting is better, since the girl doesn't need to be online. How to ask for the number • Casual Dating, and/or under 25 women o Phrase asking the number in the context of text messaging. • Long Term Relationships o Phrase in the context of "lets talk on the phone sometime". Try not to schedule a first meeting on a Friday or Saturday night. Its a lot of pressure, and it suggests that you don't have much of a social life. • Early evening is best, since you can parlay it into a night of fun. o Always prepare an optional second, third and fourth nearby activity for time-shifting purposes--Just in Case. (Ex: Happy-Hour, Dinner, Coffee and dancing) Don'ts o Treat it like its a big deal. o Be formal about it. o Tell her that you want her number to ask her out. o Apologize for asking. o Act like she is doing you a favour. What to say on the phone • Build a little comfort. o Small talk is OK here. • Qualify the girl o Poke fun at her expense, but in a friendly way. o Make sure she is not a psychopath. • Talk about your experience with internet dating. • Don't be formal. • Act like this is the most natural thing. It is OK to ask a girl if she looks like her photos. It is also OK to let her know that it will be a short meeting. You can always stay longer if you're having fun. She usually won't make plans for afterwards anyways. Phraseology o Its common sense, but try to make it so that its easy for her to say "yes". o Ask her what she is up to this week. o Pick a day where she doesn't say she's busy to try to schedule it. o If she is busy all week, tongue in cheek, tell her to cancel her plans. Don't actually expect her to cancel her plans. o Be playful. Always! o Make the main focus of first meeting the activity. o She is just the cherry on the Sundae. First Meeting Venue Always pick a public place for your own safety. I have been stalked too many times to let someone I haven't met be in close proximity in a strange place. Bars and coffee shops are excellent because if she's crazy you can down your drink and leave. Make sure that she understands why you're picking this venue so you don't appear cheap. Try to pick a place where you can use body language to your advantage, with good lighting. Punctuality Make her wait 5 minutes. Exactly 5 minutes. Let her anticipate your arrival. Show up early or on time and wait if necessary. Don't let her see you doing this. If she is early, just make sure she waits 5 minutes. General Game o Prepare "Off the cuff" stories and games. o Don't act like a Carney, but be interesting, different and exciting. o Ask questions only to give her an opportunity to qualify herself. o Don't play 20 questions. o Try to give as much as you take from the conversation. o Control the conversation. o Don't hijack it. o Multiple threads are good. If things go well, either end the night early or time-shift. Changing venues makes people feel closer. Do's o Kiss the girl on the cheek or hug her when you meet. o Try to sit at the bar, or grab a corner booth. o Play with your body language to give off positive and negative feedback. o Create tension, especially sexual. Don'ts o Make a formal introduction. o Shake hands. o Sit directly across from her, if its avoidable. Afterwards Make it a practice not to say whether you'll be calling. Just call instead, if interested. Don't tell a girl you'll call when you won't. Its not nice. Don't plan a second date while on the first date. o For casual dating, call her in inverse proportion to how much you think she liked you. o If she really likes you, wait up to four days to call. o If you're not sure how much she likes you call or text the next day. Tell her about the crazy thing happening on channel 4. Act like you have known her forever. o For long term relationships o Call or text the next day. o Act like you have known her forever. It is OK to reciprocate anything that she says to you. Reviews of Sites General Practices: When searching, look for the newest members first. Then look for last online. Abuse winks, "this user is interested", favorites and Meet Me functions. Tease girls playfully about this. Jdate I've tried almost all of the major dating sites, but the best ones depend largely on where you live and what you're looking for. If you're like me, and you're looking for a girlfriend, and you're open to dating Jewish girls, AND you live in a major urban area like NYC, LA, London, Boston, Toronto, etc. Jdate is amazing. Seriously. Probably the best level of talent and the girls are genuinely motivated to meet people. Unfortunately, where I live, there's basically 20 women on the website who are active at any given time. The rest are unpaid members and abandoned profiles, so stay clear unless you're in a real metropolis, or if there's a huge Jewish community where you live. As with any pay site, pay close attention to who has been online and when before committing to buying a subscription. POF I've found POF to be the absolute best if you're interested in casual dating. Its also free, so take advantage. I've found there's a lot of fake profiles on there though among the most beautiful women. **Here's a tip**-- its usually easy to figure out which girls are fake. Before wasting time on messaging a beautiful women, literally drag and drop her photo into Google images. If the photo turns up on a website somewhere, you can guess that its probably a fake. Unfortunately, the (real) women on POF tend not to be as motivated to meet in person as on other sites; so in the interest of economy, I usually ask for their number very quickly on this site. The reason that I say its best for casual dating is that in my experience a lot of the beautiful women on there are in it for an ego boost after being broken up with. I've had some success with this site as well. I dated women who ranged from HB 10 underwear models to HB 9 sexy veterinarians and everything in between, all from this free website. OKCupid OKCupid is actually even better in theory, but in practice, I've found fewer interesting women on the website. There users are statistically better looking, but are more likely to be interested in meeting a boyfriend. In my area, the women on there are not as 'talented' as for some reason, so I don't spend a lot of time on that site. Its interface and the features on it rival or best all paysites, so if you live in a good OKC part of the world, I highly recommend this site. Match Match is a great website for relationshippy-women, but again, be weary of abandoned or unpaid profiles. Assume that only the "highlighted" members are real and active. I've sent out dozens of emails to non-paying users by giving out my email (written out, not using @) and never got a response by email. Some non-highlighted members have written back to me directly. I would say the rate of response on Match is the highest of any except Jdate, and the women are more motivated to meet in person than any other. I recommend paying for the extras. For an extra 3$, you get to know if your emails were read, and get highlighted, etc. Eharmony Eharmony is awful. They make you spend HOURS on filling out their survey, only so that they can block potential women from your searches. Frequently, there are only a few matches for you, and none of them are attractive. Some guys end up with zero matches in their area. I can't think of anything more frustrating. Lavalife The talent on lavalife is good, but I can't stand the interface. In my experience, the women on there are almost as motivated to meet as on Match. So, if you can navigate through the dating/ relationship completely separate sections and deal with the site, it might be worth the money. ** I apologize for the formatting. This document was written in word format. If you stick with this, you will succeed. Feedback and alternative suggestions welcomed. Good luck, and let me know how it turns out! |
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| Author: | skypirate35 [ Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:56 pm ] |
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That is an incredible amount of good information. I hope we have a mod who can sticky this. It's well worth sticking. |
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| Author: | jpow1981 [ Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:09 pm ] |
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Thanks, Sky! |
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| Author: | jpow1981 [ Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
On Subject Lines: There are two theories about subject lines: 1. Go weird. Grab their attention; or 2. Use a tried and tested subject line from consumer behavior. The two I use are: I lost my remote behind your sofa and This User MIGHT be Interested in You. I use the same two tired lines over and over. I do not make them personal to the recipient. It seems to make no difference at all. They always seem to get read. |
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