Need a plan to improve conversation skills



Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests
Post new topic Reply to topic   Board index » Inner Game » Social Shyness & Anxiety




Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:58 am 
Offline
New to MPUA Forum

Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 3:06 am
Posts: 11
I have two main issues

First, I find myself to be a lousy conversationalist. At work I'm a bit of a bore, so I tend not to be the most solicited (which I don't really care since I'm an introvert to begin with). Although I realize this is actually detrimental to my career. Some are actually really skilled and always seem to have an entertaining story to tell. It's like they spend the ride to work thinking of stories to tell for the whole day, it's maddening. And when someone finishes telling me an anecdote, most of the time I just have no idea what to say other than "cool", a grin, and a nod. Should I just make a list of cool stories to tell in MS Word and memorize them or something?!

My other problem is quite simply my introversion. I actually don't care much for conversation. I could go most of the day without talking to anyone, so long as I'm being productive and keeping my mind occupied. I often find myself phasing out when someone is talking to me quite simply because I just don't care. My mind is always busy thinking of something else anyway. So tell me, what are the odds of getting laid with that kind of attitude? Nil, right? So is that something I can change easily to the point of always wanting to be around people? Are there any success stories out there?

Another question: am I a lousy conversationalist because of my introversion, or am I introverted because I'm a lousy conversationalist?


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:48 pm 
Offline
New to MPUA Forum

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:22 pm
Posts: 25
I'm a natural introvert myself. What I find helped me a lot to get into the convo mood is to force myself to talk to someone I enjoy talking to. If there was a friend, I would force myself to go onto a stupid tangent with him in the morning, that would set me for a more conversationalist mood. Basically the idea is, once you are in the silent mood, it is very hard to get out of it for the day. We need warm-up sets if we aren't naturally great conversationalists.

Regarding stories. You can learn how to tell them in a better way. Yes it will require you to write them down. A great exercise is probably the one where you decide on a story you want to tell. Write it down and try to cut it into 10 second sound bites, where each sound bites evokes an emotion. To get an idea how to tell something funny, or add humour to your stories, read the "Comedy Writing Secrets" by Mel Helitzer.

It will be quite hard for a while as it will take analysing, rewriting, analysing, rewriting, analysing and rewriting again. But with practice you will naturally start noticing and memorizing the patterns and start telling better stories from the get go.

Hope this helps :)


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:01 pm 
Offline
PUA Forum Leader

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:19 pm
Posts: 1472
Just build up your repertoire on world geography and use travel as a core topic of conversation. Learn new things about different areas and make it a point to learn one new thing about the town, county, state, province or country the person(guy or girl) is from. Use this knowledge in other conversations..

For instance; girl 1 from a week ago said she was from New York, she told you "X is a very popular hobby in NY." A week later you're talking to girl 2. You talk about where she's from and bring up -- doesn't matter if it's randomly or whatever -- that you were talking to a friend about New York and they said whatever it is was popular. Then you simply ask girl 2 if she's ever heard about that. You branch off from there and stack conversations on top of each other.

Geography and travel are treasure troves for conversation. They're safe topics that stir up positive emotions and thoughts of adventure. You can't have a boring conversation if you're talking about the many different countries in the world and can share information. After this you can ask more personal questions about them and zone in on their own personal life to get closer to them and build up sufficient comfort in order to isolate and k-close/f-close or n-close them there and then. Half the time the woman will even n-close you because you come across as a well travelled and intellectual person that's worth being around. Never a dull moment!!


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:26 pm 
Offline
MPUA Forum Zealot

Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:07 am
Posts: 496
Quote:
I have two main issues

First, I find myself to be a lousy conversationalist. At work I'm a bit of a bore, so I tend not to be the most solicited (which I don't really care since I'm an introvert to begin with). Although I realize this is actually detrimental to my career. Some are actually really skilled and always seem to have an entertaining story to tell. It's like they spend the ride to work thinking of stories to tell for the whole day, it's maddening. And when someone finishes telling me an anecdote, most of the time I just have no idea what to say other than "cool", a grin, and a nod. Should I just make a list of cool stories to tell in MS Word and memorize them or something?!

My other problem is quite simply my introversion. I actually don't care much for conversation. I could go most of the day without talking to anyone, so long as I'm being productive and keeping my mind occupied. I often find myself phasing out when someone is talking to me quite simply because I just don't care. My mind is always busy thinking of something else anyway. So tell me, what are the odds of getting laid with that kind of attitude? Nil, right? So is that something I can change easily to the point of always wanting to be around people? Are there any success stories out there?

Another question: am I a lousy conversationalist because of my introversion, or am I introverted because I'm a lousy conversationalist?
You don't care much for conversation because you suck at it and it is uncomfortable. Go out more and just talk more chit chat to people so it is easy and you are more used to just saying shit as it pops into your head. You are likely uncomfortable for others to talk to as well. You need to do it more so that it is normal and comfortable to you. And being normal and comfortable talking to people is... well... kinda important, as you learn from the experience in the job place. A lot of people mislabel "Shy and awkward" as "introverted".


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:02 pm 
Offline
MPUA Forum Enthusiast

Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:49 pm
Posts: 81
Try joining some Meet Up groups, gives you an opportunity to just talk to people with no pressure. I know a few people who have joined Toastmasters as well, heard good reports on how well they teach you to speak.

Definitely talk to as many people you can before you start talking to girls. You need to warm up and get out your head, everyone does to a certain extent. Bouncers, bartenders, whoever you come across.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:51 pm 
Offline
New to MPUA Forum

Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 3:06 am
Posts: 11
Thanks guys. Some great advice. Namely, the warm up conversation sets, the geography and travel topics, the story telling routines and book, Meet Ups and Toastmasters.

I've been reading "Shyness and Social Anxiety System" by Sean Cooper. The book touches on value (which I had completely neglected) as well as approach anxiety. Pretty useful. I hope to implement some goals and a plan shortly


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:15 pm 
Offline
New to MPUA Forum

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:22 pm
Posts: 25
If you are going for books, you might want to take a look at How To Talk To Hot Women by Mehow. It does quite a good job for more analytical minds at explaining the 10 second sound bites, adding value and etc.


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:46 pm 
Offline
MPUA Forum Enthusiast

Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:49 pm
Posts: 81
Stephan Erdman's conversation course is good if you want something very basic, although a lot of it is just standard NLP rapport building techniques that you could learn from a cheaper source. Doesn't really go into subject matter, it's more looking at structure and technique. It sounds weird but I use my 5 year old daughter for conversation practice and testing because all the same techniques of rapport building, teasing, having fun, push/pull, etc., work really well with conversations with kids, you get instant feedback and they don't humour you if something isn't working. They are pretty damn harsh judges. The Erdman course actually worked really well.

Bobby Rio's Smalltalk course gets good reviews, I thought it was just OK. Sinn's 5 Minute Chemistry would be good if it was longer but it does have some very good basic pointers in it.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:29 am 
Offline
New to MPUA Forum

Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 3:06 am
Posts: 11
I just finished reading Sean Cooper's Shyness and Social Anxiety System, and lo and behold, it REALLY is a book for people with social anxiety, which I can now conclude I do not have. Mostly, it teaches you techniques for not giving a fuck and relaxing as opposed to panicking when getting involved in social situations. This might have been a good book for me back in high school, but I can't say I get nervous when talking to people or even decent looking girls.

Mostly, my issue is conversation techniques. For instance, I'm on an elevator with a colleague I've seen a couple of times but don't know well beyond "hello." What do I say to bond? Historically I'd have just stood there and waited for him or her to engage in conversation, otherwise I just look at the elevator TV or my phone. And I noticed I mostly ask questions to get others to talk -- I have trouble inserting an anecdote or short story to control the conversation. At work, 99% of the people I talk to control the conversation (I'm at times intimidated by all the intelligence at the office and the well articulated and entertaining stories); with friends it's maybe 75%. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if others are controlling the conversations, it's difficult for me to establish myself as a dominant figure hence limiting my value.

To be clear, I'm looking to first bond with colleagues, then friends, and ultimately hot girls. I just got Stephan Erdman's course. I'm also eventually going to look at the other books suggested. You guys are great help.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:18 pm 
Offline
New to MPUA Forum

Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:19 pm
Posts: 7
@BetaPro
1. Have a look at Dave Riker's Language and Conversation course(Excellent).
2. If you are watching Porn, quit it now. This maybe your problem to no creativity during conversations and why you get lost in your own world when there are conversations taking place.


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:26 pm 
Offline
PUA Forum Leader
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 1020
Website: http://www.volcanoconfidence.com
One of the best things you can do to improve your conversational skills is take up a class of
IMPROV. It's basically a cool skill they teach to actors, when they learn to improvise an act.

So for example, you have 2 actors on stage and one says to the other, "Wow you have
a beautiful house..."


And the other says, "Yes and look at my wonderful decor of it, I've designed it myself..."

...while there isn't anything on the stage.


I know it sounds kind of stupid, but the point of it is to get you OUT of your head and IN
the present moment
, where you can BE with a person and have a normal conversation.

Your biggest enemy right now is your mind. You can't stop thinking, because your mind
has you by the balls.

I'd recomend you play around with Meditation, which will calm your mind down and help you stop thinking
so much.

If you feel anxiety about actually walking over there and starting a conversation
with a woman you like, I invite you and anyone reading this to join my test group, where I'm
testing a technique called AA Cure, which eliminates your anxiety in under 90 min.

And as a final advice, I recommend you check out Philip Defranco (Youtube) and his style of
communicating, and just notice how he has a lot to say - all the time.

Details in the signature.

Good luck!

_________________
I need 30 guys to test my new AA Cure technique, that eliminates your AA
in UNDER an hour.

Requirements:
>You have to be over 21 of age
>You're not comfortable approaching women
>You are serious about eliminating it

Apply At:Test Group


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:09 am 
Offline
New to MPUA Forum

Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 3:06 am
Posts: 11
Quote:
I have two main issues

First, I find myself to be a lousy conversationalist. At work I'm a bit of a bore, so I tend not to be the most solicited (which I don't really care since I'm an introvert to begin with). Although I realize this is actually detrimental to my career. Some are actually really skilled and always seem to have an entertaining story to tell. It's like they spend the ride to work thinking of stories to tell for the whole day, it's maddening. And when someone finishes telling me an anecdote, most of the time I just have no idea what to say other than "cool", a grin, and a nod. Should I just make a list of cool stories to tell in MS Word and memorize them or something?!

My other problem is quite simply my introversion. I actually don't care much for conversation. I could go most of the day without talking to anyone, so long as I'm being productive and keeping my mind occupied. I often find myself phasing out when someone is talking to me quite simply because I just don't care. My mind is always busy thinking of something else anyway. So tell me, what are the odds of getting laid with that kind of attitude? Nil, right? So is that something I can change easily to the point of always wanting to be around people? Are there any success stories out there?

Another question: am I a lousy conversationalist because of my introversion, or am I introverted because I'm a lousy conversationalist?
Here's an update almost 1.5 years later for anyone who's curious.

First, I've found the answer to my question above: I am/was a lousy conversationalist because of my introversion, not vice versa. I don't care for what many people have to say, probably because they bore the fuck out of me and I'd rather focus on stuff life spreadsheets and financial news. Going on about your vacation for five minutes? Get out of my face. Telling me about your weekend? Fuck off, and no I will not tell you shit about my weekend because I probably didn't do anything exciting like jump off a plane. Trying to discreetly tell me a racist joke at the office? Now I'm all ears. So I've come to embrace my introversion.

Second, given the above, and given that one of the primary motivations was to improve my relations with colleagues but that since then my career is both flying and less important than before, I feel less pressure to improve conversation skills. Also, good conversation skills are not the only element to improving relationships with colleagues: there's being attentive to their needs and keeping a positive attitude. Even with good relationships with colleagues, there are other important aspects to get ahead within your organization: delivering quality work and more than your colleague/client/boss expected ahead of time, being prepared ahead of a meeting, being authoritative/confident, and being knowledgeable about your subject matter. Even without having stellar conversation skills, or being an introvert, if do the above you can quickly advance.

Third, I DID join Toastmasters, but didn't put much effort and quickly dropped out. I found that many (but not all) people in the club were kind of losers of society, for a lack of a better description. No one that I could truly associate with to learn more. In fact, I would rather look up to the several different managers in my organization to truly learn public speaking skills and general social skills. Mind you, there were some definitely competent public speakers in my club.

Fourth, despite my lack of effort to improve my conversation skills, I found that they weren't the most important asset with regards to girls. One key asset that can quickly be forgotten and mixed with conversation skills is confidence, composure, and leadership. A girl can control 90% of the conversation, but for the 10% you speak, you better make it high-value material to send the signal that you're a boss.

Fifth, despite my introversion, I found that your environment and surroundings can quickly transform you into an incredible extrovert and a good conversationalist. Last year I went away with my family to a resort down south. I believe the combination of my sister acting as a pivot, my intoxication, and not having to worry about work transformed me into one of the most social beings. I began interacting with anyone and everyone. I got laid, and after returning home she flew out to visit me twice (I gave her the axe after she began annoying me).

So there you have it. While overall I'd say I've improved my conversation skills marginally, I don't think conversation skills are the most important aspect of my life at this point. Onto other projects.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:29 pm 
Offline
PUA Forum Leader
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 1020
Website: http://www.volcanoconfidence.com
Quote:

Here's an update almost 1.5 years later for anyone who's curious.

First, I've found the answer to my question above: I am/was a lousy conversationalist because of my introversion, not vice versa. I don't care for what many people have to say, probably because they bore the fuck out of me and I'd rather focus on stuff life spreadsheets and financial news. Going on about your vacation for five minutes? Get out of my face. Telling me about your weekend? Fuck off, and no I will not tell you shit about my weekend because I probably didn't do anything exciting like jump off a plane. Trying to discreetly tell me a racist joke at the office? Now I'm all ears. So I've come to embrace my introversion.
That's not being an introvert, that's being an asshole.

_________________
I need 30 guys to test my new AA Cure technique, that eliminates your AA
in UNDER an hour.

Requirements:
>You have to be over 21 of age
>You're not comfortable approaching women
>You are serious about eliminating it

Apply At:Test Group


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:33 pm 
Offline
New to MPUA Forum

Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 3:06 am
Posts: 11
What's that book called again? Assholes Finish First? Ah, yes. ❤


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:19 pm 
Offline
PUA Forum Leader
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 1020
Website: http://www.volcanoconfidence.com
Quote:
What's that book called again? Assholes Finish First? Ah, yes. ❤
Whatever makes you happy.

_________________
I need 30 guys to test my new AA Cure technique, that eliminates your AA
in UNDER an hour.

Requirements:
>You have to be over 21 of age
>You're not comfortable approaching women
>You are serious about eliminating it

Apply At:Test Group


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Can we be honest?

We want your email address. Let me send you the best seduction techniques ever devised... because they are really good.
close-link