Why you should Hate PUAHATE



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:32 pm 
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I don't like PUA hate lots of time wasters on there but here I am getting a different sense. PUA is about becoming fake and out of touch with your real self. Becoming a little slave and fan boy and riding everyone else’s band wagon. God forbid if you have legitimate and differing opinion. You might just be attempting to become a fake sage :roll: . We must remember that PUA is a series of corporations. And corporations never have the best interest of their client, only of their wallets...

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Last edited by Gaius on Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:40 pm 
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I'm sure a lot of you have stumbled across this site.

As a place to debunk the legendary status of some of the self-proclaimed "gurus" out there, I think it's great. I have never paid for a bootcamp or anything like that, and have bought a few massively discounted products for like £5-10 out of curiosity because frankly this is very little money. There's a lot of free content out there, and it should be an impetus for guys to go out there and try stuff out and see what works for them, NOT assume one guru is 100% right and follow every part of his game step by step.

However, there's a general attitude on that forum that basically looks are what get you laid and if you don't have them, there's no point in trying to use game, and if you do have them, then you don't need game anyway.

This is frankly absolute bullshit and a really negative limiting belief to give to guys. It basically says "wait around until you see a girl likes you, and then go for it" which basically leaves everything up to chance and gives you no motivation to try and succeed or alter your fate in any way.

It's like saying that sales techniques (e.g. NLP) are all bullshit. Either someone walks in and wants to buy a product, or they don't and there's nothing you can do to change that. We all know that's not true, otherwise there would be no advertising. Ad men like Don Draper have spent decades convincing people that they need and want a product they initially didn't even know existed and certainly had no desire for. Although cold calling has a low success rate, it still sells products and generates leads despite the fact that people have a huge "bitch shield" when they get a cold call. Of course, if you know a girl is definitely attracted, then you can approach with confidence and just escalate. But that doesn't mean a cold approach, where you generate attraction in a girl who didn't notice you initially, can't also work too.

Furthermore, the whole premise is coming from a male mindset. For a guy, nothing a woman says will change her from a 4 to an 8, no matter how smart, funny, how many friends she has, what her goals are, etc. We know that this is not true for women. Women are literally ATTRACTED to power, status, value, wealth, intelligence, humour, preselection, confidence, etc. A simple psychological test is to ask women to rate the attractiveness of a man. In the control group, the man is by himself, in the other group the man in surrounded by women who are all looking at him and smiling. The girls will rate the second guy as MUCH HOTTER, despite the fact that his features are IDENTICAL. Men will rate a girl the same regardless, in fact they will probably not even notice anything else in the photo apart from her if she's hot.


If you have looks, then game that's tailored to the "assuming attraction" style will work well for you, but you still need to learn how to escalate correctly, handle logistics, and build some comfort and qualify so she doesn't think you're a player and it's only about sex and try to get away from you. Guys with looks generally can get away with more fuck ups and still get the girl, but many really good looking guys still fail because of confidence issues or the like, and need a roadmap and practice to succeed.

If you don't have looks, then game can absolutely still work for you. Super-direct game, especially in a club environment, will be more difficult to pull off, but still possible if you build enough social proof and are having a great time and really exuding confidence, sexuality and playfulness. However, you will often have to work harder on building attraction through your personality and other traits (preselection, social value, intelligence, etc), and then you can move through the rest of the steps in the same way. False disqualifiers/negs/rapport breaks can be more useful, but not necessarily essential.

As someone with what I reasonably believe are below average looks, I can tell you all that I went from believing I had to settle for 4s and 5s to regularly bagging 8s and 9s. It feels great too because I know I've worked at it, and am getting results not because of the way I was born, but because of who I've made myself into. You can all do the same, no matter who you are or what you look like.
a very distorted take on puahate - just take a look at a LOT of support for 60 Years Of Challenge which is almost as simple and direct 'game' can get. PUA Hate does not hate all game, just the BS and hype and fluff that goes with it

There is a big issue over the efficiency of 'game' even super PUAs have low low success rates - i suppose this depends upon your view on success but 1 in 10 lay rates are pretty goddamn low...so they are effectively saying even with game 'mastered' it works 1 in 10 times

Let me ask a few questions - did you do any thing to improve your looks? Lose weight, new haircut, lose glasses, new clothes style? If so why?

The 2 biggest pieces of advice anyone can give to significantly improve your success with girls is...1/ improve your looks 2/ meet more girls...thats sooo brain dead but unless you have done those 2 things for several months no other information is even worth looking at


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:44 pm 
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I agree mkultra.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:47 pm 
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Quote:
...

on the other hand if youre a 3 eyed swamp monster youre gaem has to be unbelivably tight but as long as youre smooth, funny, confident youre going to get laid....

not only that but these websites dont take into acount how pick up just makes you a better person.
...
i used to be some needy little shit that drove away every women i spoke to . my friends and peers ridiculed me at every turn and i felt like shit every single day.

...)
show me just ONE really hideous looking guy that has been successful with 'game'... I am NOT holding my breath

highly debatable 2nd point - yes PU encourages guys to approach girls they wouldnt have and thats a good thing BUT its wrapped up in unecessary BS and psudoscientific claptrap...and to be frank when you have Mystery even encouraging men to lie ( I will find and post the clip dont worry) then how is this all different for the ages old process of lying to get in a girls pants?

3rd point - counselling is more useful than pickup


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:53 pm 
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Pickup/seduction can only get you so far which is why so many gurus aren't with hb10's.
But what does that mean though? That if you have some depth of personality, a HB10 may respond? Ok, fine, I'm not afraid of having that. Might not work for all HB10s in the world but it'll surely work for some. Or does it mean you gotta have looks or money or something shallow like that? I call bollocks on that. There are too many people in the world, the world is too diverse to make pat assumptions about who requires what. So why limit yourself? Personally I don't believe in living life as a statistic. Statistics are for average people and average people don't do much about their own fate. Consider also that an "average" statistic includes all the people who do things substantially worse than you do. It's an average.
where to start on dissecting this crap?
the biggest proof that pickup is basically flawed is that we are NOT seeing all these trainers and gurus with super hot chicks - Why not? The answers simple HB10s have choice and so they will choose genuinely good looking, famous, rich or whatever the want from men - the gurus are living proof that you cannot fake it


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:51 pm 
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3rd point - counselling is more useful than pickup
My god this is so true. A relationship counselor would be heaps better than any PUA material.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:30 pm 
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Quote:
I'm sure a lot of you have stumbled across this site.

As a place to debunk the legendary status of some of the self-proclaimed "gurus" out there, I think it's great. I have never paid for a bootcamp or anything like that, and have bought a few massively discounted products for like £5-10 out of curiosity because frankly this is very little money. There's a lot of free content out there, and it should be an impetus for guys to go out there and try stuff out and see what works for them, NOT assume one guru is 100% right and follow every part of his game step by step.

However, there's a general attitude on that forum that basically looks are what get you laid and if you don't have them, there's no point in trying to use game, and if you do have them, then you don't need game anyway.

This is frankly absolute bullshit and a really negative limiting belief to give to guys. It basically says "wait around until you see a girl likes you, and then go for it" which basically leaves everything up to chance and gives you no motivation to try and succeed or alter your fate in any way.

It's like saying that sales techniques (e.g. NLP) are all bullshit. Either someone walks in and wants to buy a product, or they don't and there's nothing you can do to change that. We all know that's not true, otherwise there would be no advertising. Ad men like Don Draper have spent decades convincing people that they need and want a product they initially didn't even know existed and certainly had no desire for. Although cold calling has a low success rate, it still sells products and generates leads despite the fact that people have a huge "bitch shield" when they get a cold call. Of course, if you know a girl is definitely attracted, then you can approach with confidence and just escalate. But that doesn't mean a cold approach, where you generate attraction in a girl who didn't notice you initially, can't also work too.

Furthermore, the whole premise is coming from a male mindset. For a guy, nothing a woman says will change her from a 4 to an 8, no matter how smart, funny, how many friends she has, what her goals are, etc. We know that this is not true for women. Women are literally ATTRACTED to power, status, value, wealth, intelligence, humour, preselection, confidence, etc. A simple psychological test is to ask women to rate the attractiveness of a man. In the control group, the man is by himself, in the other group the man in surrounded by women who are all looking at him and smiling. The girls will rate the second guy as MUCH HOTTER, despite the fact that his features are IDENTICAL. Men will rate a girl the same regardless, in fact they will probably not even notice anything else in the photo apart from her if she's hot.


If you have looks, then game that's tailored to the "assuming attraction" style will work well for you, but you still need to learn how to escalate correctly, handle logistics, and build some comfort and qualify so she doesn't think you're a player and it's only about sex and try to get away from you. Guys with looks generally can get away with more fuck ups and still get the girl, but many really good looking guys still fail because of confidence issues or the like, and need a roadmap and practice to succeed.

If you don't have looks, then game can absolutely still work for you. Super-direct game, especially in a club environment, will be more difficult to pull off, but still possible if you build enough social proof and are having a great time and really exuding confidence, sexuality and playfulness. However, you will often have to work harder on building attraction through your personality and other traits (preselection, social value, intelligence, etc), and then you can move through the rest of the steps in the same way. False disqualifiers/negs/rapport breaks can be more useful, but not necessarily essential.

As someone with what I reasonably believe are below average looks, I can tell you all that I went from believing I had to settle for 4s and 5s to regularly bagging 8s and 9s. It feels great too because I know I've worked at it, and am getting results not because of the way I was born, but because of who I've made myself into. You can all do the same, no matter who you are or what you look like.
I'll correct this a bit

Yes, some users are VERY concerned with how looks affect everything. There's also a general acceptance of the mountain of evidence on how looks affect mate selection. Some users say it doesn't mean that much, some users say it's everything. There's a general consensus that game is useless(and the phrase "looks don't matter" is bullshit), which shouldn't come as a surprise.

Is this something that can demotivate people? Maybe. That doesn't mean there's no truth to it.

NLP is considered bullshit by a lot of users, mostly because it has failed to produce one good study supporting it in 30 years of existence. Comparing meeting a partner/seducing a potential partner to sales and/or marketing demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge on the complexity of social interaction and the process of marketing. Ads are shown to literally millions of people to give an example of the difference.

Women are universially attracted to resources and social status when you look at scientific evidence, but this is again completely overshadowed by the effect of good looks. Good looking people are also assumed to posess many of the qualities you mentioned.

I don't see how the rest of the post relates to PUAhate to be honest. It's just mindless speculation and an anecdote. Possibly falls under the label of "Mental Masturbation"

Now let's see if the rumors about PUA forums are true, will this post be deleted? Will this account be banned?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:35 pm 
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Idk see the reason to hate them. I would feel sorry for them, if anything, since they're the ones who have shitty lives, not me.
Another idea that is generally agreed upon on PUAHate is that sex, meeting women and getting laid is all normal things which most people experience.

You seem to be under the impression that the only people with good lives are people who study PU, and that people who are critical of theese methods have to have shitty lives.

Some psychologists would refer to this as a pathological defense mechanism.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:42 pm 
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Man, I read that whole rant fest website and if I was asked to describe it to a retarded deaf child, all I would say is, "TROLL FORUM OF AFC'S".

I read it. Most of which they dispute seems to be emboriled in small innaccuracies like, "Mystery says he's slept with 1000 women but because of x y and z factors its only 600. Hence the whole method is false". "I tried MM one time and it didn't work and they didn't give me money money back".

Problem with dumb shit trollers is that they dont spend any time researching for the sake of refuting facts, instead they just shoot non-sequitor in hoping to cause unrest in the PUA community.

GET FACTS BEFORE YOU WRITE SHIT.

It is not worthy. If most of the people on this forum or other pua forums talk about being successful with women based on things they learnt here, where as people on PUAhate spend there time refuting claims and none of them get laid, then it's obvious that there is a logical difference between each community.

PUAs = get laid

PUAhaters = live in mums basement

spot the difference
A more accurate statement is maybe

PUAs = Obsess over getting sex, see it as a huge achievement, believe it requires a lot of planning, training, maybe a "Journey" of some sort

Other people = Don't do any of the above, still somehow end up having sex pretty frequently.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:47 pm 
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A more accurate statement is maybe

PUAs = Obsess over getting sex, see it as a huge achievement, believe it requires a lot of planning, training, maybe a "Journey" of some sort

Other people = Don't do any of the above, still somehow end up having sex pretty frequently.
This is so true. I know "chumps" who get laid more than I do and they get their asses kicked and have even shittier social skills. Yet they get laid and I and Hobbit don't :lol: . I tell guys the same advice that women have been telling guys forever, just be your self. All these guys are forming these fake personalities based on something that they are not. Everyone is trying to be so alpha. Most of you all are going to end up with a 9 to 5 like everyone else. I know virgins who are alpha. Alpha is a state of mind not a state of getting laid. I think people associate assholes with being alpha’s. If that’s the type of person you want to be fine I have no control over it. Lying to your self will not make your life any better. There are heaps better methods for getting guys to women

Being genuine, honest, humble and good-hearted is all a man needs. I know the question of why I am here will come and the simple answer is I want to prove to everyone that you don’t need shitty routines and BS to get laid. I guarantee you before I leave the forums I will have one of the highest lay counts and I will do it with out using a single method but the one I create for my self.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:21 pm 
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I respectfully disagree with one thing you said in your rant, OP.

I met a 4, who over the period of a year changed into a 6 in my eyes even though her appearance went unchanged.

She seduced me, and I had a blast of it!

I'm sure if she were still in my life she'd have progressively gained.

At least in my book.
I agree 100%


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:39 pm 
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PUA Hate is a fun read sometimes though. It always makes me laugh. But I definitely do take a more critical attitude towards self-proclaimed "gurus."


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:28 pm 
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Just to make this thread as self-referential as possible

The PUAHaters responded!

http://www.puahate.com/showthread.php?t=15409

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:24 pm 
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I use that website, with the same username.

There are some sad people on the site but IMO they aren't the majority, there's just a few psychos, and tbh I think it makes the site more funny. I do believe looks matter though. In fact the first post (well, first reply) in this thread the guy agreed despite stating "looks don't matter", saying Brad Pitt will get away with some things and a hideous guy has to have "tight game" or whatever.

If you're good looking the girl will probably instantly want you and flirt with you, because I've seen that 10,000 times. And if you're not, it's like they don't really come after you all the time unless you have a very vibrant magnetic personality, and if you don't have that magnetism you sort of have to put in a little work but I think it's possible most of the time as a below average looking guy to get laid.

Most guys are on the site because it's funny. It's basically a women/seduction-based 4chan with usernames and individuality. The image macros of Tyler etc are great.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:59 am 
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@Murdoc

Shut Up you basement dwelling retarded virgin faggot.

It is not the puahaters who stated that was needed was Sociability and extroversion but the PUA's who were secretly lurking in puahate. How dare you take credibility for something PUA's have worked for.

To all.


The problem with puahate are:


1. Is that they take a few, sometimes not even plausible instances, and then from their subjective reality they start generalizing things. Often making false assumptions from unsubstantiated and invalid premises.

2. When you talk to a girl then they will label it as PUA or gaming a girl. What a bunch of retards. Don't they know that talking/approaching a girl is just part of NORMAL human socialization? What NORMAL people consider as socialization, they label it as an approach or something else. HEALTHY normal people socialize all the time. We are human beings and it is normal to crave for affection, attention and other emotional/sexual needs but in moderation.

3. They are “Insecured”, they assume failure and create a self – fulfilling prophecy which will spiral downwards to hesitation/procrastination and misery.
Plus, their weird crazy belief will hinder them from taking action when necessary.

4. They take no responsibility and blame everything on external factors to protect their fragile sensitive little egos.

5. PUAhaters rely too much on conveying superficial qualities as a way to supplicate to the demands of women that they end up getting preyed by shallow cunts i.e. gold diggers and playgirls. They attract the worst kind of girls which will further reinforce a false belief.

6. PUAhaters are like clueless scientists trying to break down attraction by using one dimensional “factors” – facial images…. It’s just like making scientific correlations from online dating. That is why PUAhaters always fail.

7. They have learning disabilities. They fail in reading comprehension.

8. Extreme Polarize thinking, for PUAhaters; it is either black or white.

9. Habitual Negativity/Pessimism and everything related to it.

10. Naiveté about women’s’ psychology paired with wrong socio-sexual programming.

11. They miss the point of being extroverted and having other things going in life, which is to have more opportunities in meeting women while at the same time being able to zoom out and see life as a whole.

12. The puahaters are absolute retarded bullshitters and are spreading a really negative limiting belief to give to guys. PUAhaters basically say "wait around until you see a girl likes you, and then go for it" which basically leaves everything up to chance and gives you no motivation to try and succeed or alter your fate in any way. This will cause shy introverted virgins to become even more socially withdrawn, anti - social and, to a degree "misogynistic" for having to supplicate to women through looks money and status. Not to mention it is a waste of time. Life is too short to waste time on insecurities.

13. They are too focus on looks and they confused “looks” with “attraction”.

14. They substituted seduction material with weird virgin theories. The problem with intellectually masturbating virgin theories is that the real relevance of a particular fact or concept in these cases is only apparent only after that fact has become known. Before consistent success with sex, the idea of learning to game/pick-up women has been dismissed because of a misperception of irrelevance. Accordingly, the information seeker is trapped in a PARADOX and fails to learn what he or she really needs to know, and can be caught in a kind of intellectual blind spot -- which is exactly what is happening to the virgins in PUAhate.

15. PUAhaters “FAIL” in differentiating truth from exaggeration.

16. Major time-wasters. They wasted potential opportunity cost; time, money and effort in creating a website for bashing. We are here to enjoy life and feel happy. Hating is a denial of our purpose of existence.

17. Attraction is too complex to condense to a theory. All the memories of the stuff they’ve read have cause them to "PAUSE" and think a lot about what to say.

Conclusion: They are so deep in shit that they are beyond help plus most of them are mainly just trolls and/or covert online marketers with a hidden agenda.

And they couldn't stop talking about ‘effing LOOKs. It sounded so retarded.

There were some threads that were so ridiculous so…
I interrupted them when they were intellectually masturbating about some "LMS virgin theory" or some shit. I said "holy FUCK man. What you just described is NORMAL human socialization. It’s what NORMAL FUCKING PEOPLE DO. Just fucking approached and socialize. You are getting stuck thinking about all this shit and trying to make it a formula"
But the retarded twats carried on with their technical bullshit.

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