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New Mistakes that Most PUA's Make.
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Page 1 of 3

Author:  Fin [ Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  New Mistakes that Most PUA's Make.

1.

Image

Focusing on self help instead of sarging... .. and then looking very very weird

Back when people like Mystery and Ross Jeffries had PU in its infancy the community was a bunch of guys trying to get dates/kisses/phone numbers/lays.

At worst, they were guys who had an odd habit of wearing a funny hat, using lines they had pre-written, and some people had mild ethical concerns about talking with women just to fuck them.

The new pick up artist self help "change your world" stuff is not odd, it's FUCKING SCARY!

As a result we have guys who are having conversations that sound like the blurb of a self help course, who are in-capable of understanding any view outside that of an arrogant self enlightened seduction master. And PU instructors who slap a smile on and desperatly try and convince the world that they are a free-thinking love machine that has over-come their ego and limiting beliefs.

Previous "news specials" on pick up could at worst make PUA's look a bit odd and give away a canned routine, I dread to think what we would look like if there was a documentary on us now!

1.5:
Thinking you need to "get stuff sorted" before, you're qualified to say "Hi!" to a pretty girl.

You took up boxing to give you some more confidence in sports and also in yourself as a person.

Are you going to sit down read and write, maybe talk to some people about boxing, or turn up at the boxing club to get the training giving you confidence and giving you skill?

For alot of RAFC's it's easier to procrastinate (I'm sorry but that's what it is) with, "I'm not ready I need talk for a couple of months thinking about sarging before I have the skills to take the 5 minutes required to introduce myself to the girl sitting on the bench"

Pick up, is incredibly easy to practise, don't fool yourself.

2.

Image

Don't look for a personal solution to your shitty life problems by copying a bunch of guys who are failing to deal with their own shitty life problems!


Writing or teaching people by lecturing them on defeating their ego, becoming a new person, or revealing their true self is easy to do, if you've sat on this forum long enough, as a Uni student with a very low income it has been incredibly tempting to set up a SPAM account and sell "life coaching SPAM sessions". Purely for financial gain. It's very easy to get conned in that market.

---
Infact at one point I was speaking to the mods about setting up an experiment in the form of a fake "Pick, up self improvement company" to show everyone here just how easy it would be to start a pick up cult.
--

On top of that 95% of the people on this forum type up huge posts not on techniques, or on insights on sarging, but instead on "higher mentalities" and preach these mentalities because THEY want to believe it and need it far more than thier audience does.

In the past year I've read as a handful guys who teach this kind of stuff on this forum get praised for being "smart guys" only to later have it become apparent that they were not the down to earth satisfied human's that they were presenting themselves as.

PUA's are not good Role-models.

3.

Image

Bashing MM and then doing the same thing as MM practitioners.

MM guys were often critisised for putting on a mask. New trends in pick up are exactly the same.

You spend long sessions writing, reading and doing in-field excersises just to get yourself to believe you are a fictional character created by a basement nerd who's deluded himself into thinking he's an enlightened player and knows what succesful seducers are like.

Honestly, it's the same old shtick churned out again, a false persona to get women except this time you've committed to the role and you're beginning to trick yourself, and that's why you're creepy, and that's why you're even more fucked than you were 5 years ago when you read MM.

-------

A poster here called "Kasabi" once said in a heated discussion with myself "It's just talking to women, why make such a big deal out of it?" This was back when I saw a PUA experience as something life-changing that turns a man into superman.

That one line only recently started to seem very relevant to what has been going on in Pick up. Kasabi may not have meant it in the way that I am about to put it but....

That's all Pick up is, talking to women so you can make a connection and maybe recieve some affection back in return. It doesn't need to be anything more than that ^^.

Author:  Txacoli [ Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:14 pm ]
Post subject: 

Yes, I agree. However :), some guys need to sort out the AFC in them before they can go out and sarge. I don't think there's anything wrong discussing some of those issues as well. Especially because most people that wander to this forum don't really look to become a PUA but to reform themselves. It's no big deal talking to girls if you have those issues sorted out or you're naturally socially savvy. For example, I've mostly met girls through my social circle, I did very little cold approaching. I've been hanging around the forum for about 7 months, and maybe a month ago I started actually cold approaching. The 6 months preceding were some sort of a preparation, sorting out stuff with myself and intensively reading. I still don't approach as much as I'd like to, I do get AA, but if I hadn't been here for the past months, I probably wouldn't do anything. So I'm grateful for some posts that are not strictly PUA, but more inner game. If people can find help, that's good.
The thing I agree completely with is that it's bad having PUAs as role models. Some guys get caught up in the "lifestyle" or what they think the "lifestyle" should be and become emotional retards. So you make a very valid point.

Author:  Fin [ Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:53 pm ]
Post subject: 

Quote:
Yes, I agree. However :), some guys need to sort out the AFC in them before they can go out and sarge. I don't think there's anything wrong discussing some of those issues as well. Especially because most people that wander to this forum don't really look to become a PUA but to reform themselves. It's no big deal talking to girls if you have those issues sorted out or you're naturally socially savvy. For example, I've mostly met girls through my social circle, I did very little cold approaching. I've been hanging around the forum for about 7 months, and maybe a month ago I started actually cold approaching. The 6 months preceding were some sort of a preparation, sorting out stuff with myself and intensively reading. I still don't approach as much as I'd like to, I do get AA, but if I hadn't been here for the past months, I probably wouldn't do anything. So I'm grateful for some posts that are not strictly PUA, but more inner game. If people can find help, that's good.
The thing I agree completely with is that it's bad having PUAs as role models. Some guys get caught up in the "lifestyle" or what they think the "lifestyle" should be and become emotional retards. So you make a very valid point.
Thanks for the positivity, unfortunatly though you did remind me of another mistake that needs highlighting.

Author:  here2play [ Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Mistakes that Most PUA's Make.

Quote:
1.










That's all Pick up is, talking to women so you can make a connection and maybe recieve some affection back in return. It doesn't need to be anything more than that ^^.
I really believe that statement.


The problem is so many guys have this image of women as these big scary monsters that will chew them up and split them out then tear their hearts to shreds if they say or do the wrong things.

To most normal guys it is simply talking to women as human beings, making a connection and then nature taking it's course.

To a number of other guys though women are not human beings, they are a wierd alien species that are completely foreign to them and they have no natural ability to interact with them in a normal and healthy manner.

Some of those people do need to taught that women aren't aliens and aren't big scary monster and if they take some simple step by step approaches in a positive manner, these big scary monsters are not going to tear out their hearts and chew them up and spit them in their faces.

There are some guys that have no social or interpersonal intelligence and truly do need a step by step blueprint to teach them how to look a woman in the eyes and open their mouths and say something that doesn't sound like gibberish.

If the best they can do is to come up to a girl and say, "excuse me, I need to get back to my friends but I need a woman's opinion on something....." At least they are talking and that is often the hardest step for people.

I think a worthy goal of PUA is get somebody to a point where it is "simply talking to people." If you have reached a point where you are just talking to someone and getting to know them while letting them get to know you, then you have reached the point of being a natural and that is a very worthy endpoint of the game.

Author:  Kupid [ Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Mistakes that Most PUA's Make.

Quote:
1.5:
Thinking you need to "get stuff sorted" before, you're qualified to say "Hi!" to a pretty girl.

You took up boxing to give you some more confidence in sports and also in yourself as a person.

Are you going to sit down read and write, maybe talk to some people about boxing, or turn up at the boxing club to get the training giving you confidence and giving you skill?

For alot of RAFC's it's easier to procrastinate (I'm sorry but that's what it is) with, "I'm not ready I need talk for a couple of months thinking about sarging before I have the skills to take the 5 minutes required to introduce myself to the girl sitting on the bench"

Pick up, is incredibly easy to practise, don't fool yourself.


Talking to a girl is easy, however you must consider that some of the guys (I used to be one of them) start to shake and stammered just saying Hi to a girl. For something like that it is good to read something in advance, it gives you "false & delusional" security.
Is it good on a short run? YES until you over do it and then you become wierd.



Quote:
Don't look for a personal solution to your shitty life problems by copying a bunch of guys who are failing to deal with their own shitty life problems!


Agreed, a lot of "gurus" have thir own life so messed that they need to release their anger on someone else so they don't feel bad cause their life is fucked, they feel good, cause their neighbours aren't doing any better.


Quote:
PUA's are not good Role-models.


It depends on which role-model you mean, I personaly think, that no one should be copying anyone cause that's what makes this world unique, but sometimes outside factor can give you motivation if you have a lack of it, however it is true that the quality of motivation is also the quality of an outside factor

Author:  LyricalDream [ Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Mistakes that Most PUA's Make.

Quote:
Talking to a girl is easy, however you must consider that some of the guys (I used to be one of them) start to shake and stammered just saying Hi to a girl. For something like that it is good to read something in advance, it gives you "false & delusional" security.
Is it good on a short run? YES until you over do it and then you become wierd.
Well - the trembling and the shaking is a commen problem, YES. I agree. But rather then just looking at what it is. It's better to look at what is causing this. It's not the fear of the girl.. it's something else.
Quote:
the quality of motivation is also the quality of an outside factor
Meaning what?

≠ LD

Author:  Kupid [ Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Mistakes that Most PUA's Make.

Quote:
Quote:
Talking to a girl is easy, however you must consider that some of the guys (I used to be one of them) start to shake and stammered just saying Hi to a girl. For something like that it is good to read something in advance, it gives you "false & delusional" security.
Is it good on a short run? YES until you over do it and then you become wierd.
Well - the trembling and the shaking is a commen problem, YES. I agree. But rather then just looking at what it is. It's better to look at what is causing this. It's not the fear of the girl.. it's something else.
What is it then dude, cause I still didn't figured it out ?
Quote:
Quote:
the quality of motivation is also the quality of an outside factor
Meaning what?

≠ LD
Meaning that you are more motivated, if you take someone normal for a role-model than someone, who needs to wear a fuzzy hat / do NLP tricks / telling that he can make girls pants wet just by walking past her / ... cause in the end all those things are copyable, but if they aren't you that's not gonna work in the long run.

Author:  LyricalDream [ Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Mistakes that Most PUA's Make.

Quote:
What is it then dude, cause I still didn't figured it out ?
It's not fear of the girl.. nor is it anything related to the girl.
Think about it.. I'm challenging you... Take your time.
Quote:
Meaning that you are more motivated, if you take someone normal for a role-model than someone, who needs to wear a fuzzy hat / do NLP tricks / telling that he can make girls pants wet just by walking past her / ... cause in the end all those things are copyable, but if they aren't you that's not gonna work in the long run.
Isn't this contradicting?..
-> you're saying that you take a normal person for role-model..

Author:  Kupid [ Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Mistakes that Most PUA's Make.

Quote:
Quote:
What is it then dude, cause I still didn't figured it out ?
It's not fear of the girl.. nor is it anything related to the girl.
Think about it.. I'm challenging you... Take your time.

Alright man I accept it, but I'm going to sleep it over cause it's half past midnight right now in my time zone and I have work tomor.. oh sorry today :)
I'll tell you in a few hours

Quote:
Quote:
Meaning that you are more motivated, if you take someone normal for a role-model than someone, who needs to wear a fuzzy hat / do NLP tricks / telling that he can make girls pants wet just by walking past her / ... cause in the end all those things are copyable, but if they aren't you that's not gonna work in the long run.
Isn't this contradicting?..
-> you're saying that you take a normal person for role-model..

Yeah my uncle normal guy, married for 10 years with 4 kids, but as far as PUA goes he learned me more than Mystery or anyone else...

Author:  johnchangmai [ Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:59 pm ]
Post subject: 

Fin

Great post.



About a year ago i posted a thread about there being to many pick up guys.
The local pub i went in suddenly was rammed with guys dripping in chick bate and hats, standing alpha and hamming it up.
They scared everybody away.

You answered it well by saying nature has a way of sorting things out in time.

I believe this may be the case with your thread.

Author:  zappo [ Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:48 pm ]
Post subject: 

Quote:
New Mistakes that Most PUA's Make
Ultimate has got to be , "Trying to be a Pua"

Just be yourself but a bit more awesome with more of an understanding of game

Author:  Ryan Black SashaPUA [ Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Mistakes that Most PUA's Make.

Quote:
3.
Bashing MM and then doing the same thing as MM practitioners.

MM guys were often critisised for putting on a mask. New trends in pick up are exactly the same.

You spend long sessions writing, reading and doing in-field excersises just to get yourself to believe you are a fictional character created by a basement nerd who's deluded himself into thinking he's an enlightened player and knows what succesful seducers are like.

Honestly, it's the same old shtick churned out again, a false persona to get women except this time you've committed to the role and you're beginning to trick yourself, and that's why you're creepy, and that's why you're even more fucked than you were 5 years ago when you read MM.

-------

A poster here called "Kasabi" once said in a heated discussion with myself "It's just talking to women, why make such a big deal out of it?" This was back when I saw a PUA experience as something life-changing that turns a man into superman.

That one line only recently started to seem very relevant to what has been going on in Pick up. Kasabi may not have meant it in the way that I am about to put it but....

That's all Pick up is, talking to women so you can make a connection and maybe recieve some affection back in return. It doesn't need to be anything more than that ^^.
That's exactly WHY I bash MM though. Precisely because I think it doesn't help most guys due to the fact it's overly complicated, based on too much useless backing up with psychological theories, and has a lot of negative beliefs, e.g. she's higher value than you to start, etc. You're absolutely right - it IS just talking to girls, which is why I believe that the new "trend" of being direct actually WORKS because it's simple, easy and effective, and allows you to be HONEST rather than hiding yourself behind a mask of routines.

Author:  Fin [ Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Mistakes that Most PUA's Make.

Quote:
Quote:
3.
Bashing MM and then doing the same thing as MM practitioners.

MM guys were often critisised for putting on a mask. New trends in pick up are exactly the same.

You spend long sessions writing, reading and doing in-field excersises just to get yourself to believe you are a fictional character created by a basement nerd who's deluded himself into thinking he's an enlightened player and knows what succesful seducers are like.

Honestly, it's the same old shtick churned out again, a false persona to get women except this time you've committed to the role and you're beginning to trick yourself, and that's why you're creepy, and that's why you're even more fucked than you were 5 years ago when you read MM.

-------

A poster here called "Kasabi" once said in a heated discussion with myself "It's just talking to women, why make such a big deal out of it?" This was back when I saw a PUA experience as something life-changing that turns a man into superman.

That one line only recently started to seem very relevant to what has been going on in Pick up. Kasabi may not have meant it in the way that I am about to put it but....

That's all Pick up is, talking to women so you can make a connection and maybe recieve some affection back in return. It doesn't need to be anything more than that ^^.
That's exactly WHY I bash MM though. Precisely because I think it doesn't help most guys due to the fact it's overly complicated, based on too much useless backing up with psychological theories, and has a lot of negative beliefs, e.g. she's higher value than you to start, etc. You're absolutely right - it IS just talking to girls, which is why I believe that the new "trend" of being direct actually WORKS because it's simple, easy and effective, and allows you to be HONEST rather than hiding yourself behind a mask of routines.
Yeah! Instead of hiding yourself behind routines you can just use denial and a lack of introspection!

What MM does or doesn't do, is beyond the point. Because you guys are as retarded as it is, if not, worse.

Author:  Txacoli [ Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Mistakes that Most PUA's Make.

Quote:
Because you guys are as retarded as it is, if not, worse.
Why is this kind of discourse necessary?

Author:  Fin [ Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Mistakes that Most PUA's Make.

Quote:
Quote:
Because you guys are as retarded as it is, if not, worse.
Why is this kind of discourse necessary?
It's not necessary but whether certain people see it or not, the fundamental process that makes MM wierd is being repeated here on an even deeper level.

I understand I'm pushing this line very aggressivly almost purely because I am very tired of beating round the bush on this topic, but if you want to discuss a more holistic approach to the subject then PM me, if not, lets keep it on target.

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