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ANTI-PU (Only experienced PUAs answer please)
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Author:  $uave [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:08 am ]
Post subject:  ANTI-PU (Only experienced PUAs answer please)
Here is the background

I remember some PUA say to Ciaran when he criticized PU for being manipulative and self-destructive: "PU is not some magic power that blinds her or clouds her mind."

And Ciaran Replied with:

"No, but it is power. And to say that she has 'free will' to sleep with you when you're fucking good at this is like saying you have free will to resist buying a pair of shoes from the world's best shoe salesman.

Oh don't get me wrong. There are a million ways to get a woman to agree to sex "of her own free will."

And that is because our will - hers, yours and mine - are not sacrosanct. There is no mystical guardian that will stop us from making the wrong choice."

Then I saw Alex Coulson(dating coach-routines mixed with direct) approach 2 girls on the street and one was purposefully giving him negative body-language (suspected him of being PUA)...he said she looks like a friendly one and girl replied with: " If you studied body-language you would've known that its like a rejection" Alex made a surprised face and was like really? I didn't know that, and you could see that the girl relaxed and even mentioned that she was too cautious and she just should stop that...while talking to fucking PUA...I was laughing at first but then-that got me. Seriously.

So my question is. WTF do you do about this? This really bothers me. I have no clue how I'll trust my gf, not because she is such a slut or wants to sleep around, but simply because she is weak. And she can played with. And if I find out that the guy turns out to be a PUA I'll personally cut his penis off. I agree, I'm weak too, but I want to get this cheating question sorted out. You might laugh at me now, but...this is really important to me.
Author:  Keksman [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:29 am ]
Post subject: 
I actually believe that there are people who can be monogamous for life. Going off your description, neither you nor your girl seem to be among them. But still, you can only trust her and go along as if she was strong enough to resist anyone. Otherwise, your jealousy and suspicion will sabotage your relationship. Without trust, you cannot have a fulfilling relationship, so you'll have to take the chance of looking a fool should she stray. May not be comforting, but that's exactly why so many people struggle with LTRs: they are afraid of putting themselves out there.

But to ease your mind, let me get to the more interesting point of your post. The fear that she'll run into some mPUA, who will sweep her off her feet, because he is a trained master manipulator. First, I agree with your caveat to free will. An actual mPUA can circumvent most defense mechanisms. But I think many in the community overestimate the prevalence of PU. Furthermore, what are the chances that she will run into an mPUA, be targeted by him, in a situation where the logistics check out?

Now on to the practical part. The only things you can do are (1) work on your inner game, it's the key to trust, and (2) teach her about PU. The more she knows about it, the more easily she will catch on to it, thereby weakening its effect.
Author:  Tiger6Niner [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:03 am ]
Post subject: 
Are you that sure that you're GF is actually weak? Or are you assuming that all females are weak after seeing Alex Coulston in action?

I actually feel sorry for any PUA approaching my GF.
Author:  $uave [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:29 am ]
Post subject: 
1) I don't have a gf.

I'm asking this question for my future relationship cause this topic bothers me.

2) If my gf chooses other guy over me because he is better- I'd feel shitty, but That'll only inspire me to be a better person.

3) All women (and men) are weak. IMO

And the thing about PU-Alex Coulson is good-but there are many way better than him. I won't even want to think about them. I don't want my girl to be played. That's it. I don't want her to be manipulated.

I want her to be happy. If she is happy with another man-that sucks but that's ok. If she runs into some mPUA which sweeps her off her feet. I'll probably do something horrible to him, but even after that, I won't be able to trust her. That's just the way I am. So I was wondering what I can do about it.
Author:  Tiger6Niner [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:20 am ]
Post subject: 
I'd put it down to how serious the relationship is. If you are both convinced that you are "the one" for each other, nothing will tear you apart. All men and women are individuals with differing values and morals. Some know what they want, some dont. You'll find those who dont know what they want are the ones who will be "swept off their feet" my a mPUA. When you really get to know a girl, you should be able to tell what type she is and what she wants out of life (provided she knows what she wants).
Author:  Valon [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:35 am ]
Post subject: 
Get rid of the selfimprovement, self-improvement implies that the person you are at this moment is not good enough, and you know that's a false statement!

Besides, if your girlfriend cheats on you, she's not worthy to be called girlfriend. I told mine, we can have fun, we can flirt with others, but as soon as you cheat on me I won't be mad, we'll still have sex, it'll be just less love.
Author:  Ryan Black SashaPUA [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:15 am ]
Post subject: 
There is nothing you can do except be the best you can be, give her great sex, fun adventures, and the trust, honesty, and respect that comes with a loving, caring relationship.

For every single facet of life, there will be guys that are better than you, and guys that are worse too. You can replace your question with "what if she meets a guy who is more attractive?" or, has more money, or is taller, or who is more successful, or a million other things. In fact, she's more likely to run into these sorts of guys than into a guy who is a really good PUA and is a consistently effective master manipulator.

Thinking "what if" the whole times will just send you insane, and will not enable you to just sit back and enjoy what you have. Jealousy is essentially an inner game issue. If you know you're pretty fucking amazing, then you will never worry she'll run off with someone else. That attitude alone will make you less controlling and needy, which in turn will make her more attracted to you and make it less likely to happen in the first place.
Author:  madals [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:16 am ]
Post subject: 
Am I the only one who see's how hypocritical Live Your Life is?
Quote:
I want her to be happy. If she is happy with another man-that sucks but that's ok.
Quote:
I'm asking this question for my future relationship cause this topic bothers me.

2) If my gf chooses other guy over me because he is better- I'd feel shitty

You need to understand one key thing, everyone is constantly manipulating the people around them. THIS ISN'T A BAD THING - it just happens.

As for if you have a girlfriend in the future, she may run off with some other guy - this is out of your control. All you have control over is being the best you can (a jealously little pussy is not the best you can be). Let what happens happen and just be confident in the fact you have had great times together, trust each other and have an emotional connection. If your relationship is good, it will take a hell of a good player to charm her away from you - the proof of this is I have NEVER got a girl who was happy with her relationship.
Author:  cygnus [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:00 am ]
Post subject: 
When the mPUA is done doing the girl, she'd still run back you though. Haha, just think of it as another man borrowing her.
Author:  $uave [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
When the mPUA is done doing the girl, she'd still run back you though. Haha, just think of it as another man borrowing her.
you're kidding right?

Quote:
Am I the only one who see's how hypocritical Live Your Life is?
Quote:
I want her to be happy. If she is happy with another man-that sucks but that's ok.
Quote:
I'm asking this question for my future relationship cause this topic bothers me.

2) If my gf chooses other guy over me because he is better- I'd feel shitty
I'm not hypocritical. I consciously want a girl to be happy, but does your conscience determine your emotions?


Anyways I get the point. be the best you can be. Now go marry with this concept in your mind.

Even Tyler talked about this "self-fulfilling prophecy".

@Cyfnus. I wish I believed this " She can sleep and come back to you" or " She can sleep but lust and love are different"-but I simply don't. At least at the moment.

@Tiger6Nine

I wish it was all that rosy Love that prevails in every situation. That'd be awesome...but that's not the way it happens or is it?

@Valon. Awesome. just get rid of her. If that's a gf-all is gonna happen-you're gonna feel shitty. What if its your wife? There are some legal consequences to this btw.

@Ryan. Yea you're absolutely right with jealousy making me insane which in turn will only increase chances that she'll go away. Knowing that I'm fucking awesome doesn't help with jealousy, cause I've seen these awesome laid back guys who still got cheated on...

If any of you guys knows how to deal with jealousy I'd really appreciate that. And I suppose its part of being unjust to one partner that makes me hate cheating. E.G. I saw a movie about 2 married couples cheating on each other with each other's partner. Kind of like swingers but without anyone knowing about another. That only made me laugh. They simply weren't right for each other IMO.

But when you see one cheating on another-that really pisses me off. Except for cheating on tests ;)-cheating system is good-cause system will cheat on you anyways ;)(don't bother-its just a cultural thing.)

Injustice in all its forms was always bothering me, although I get less affected by it as I get older, trying to accept it as a part of my life.

So, again, if anybody knows how to deal with jealousy-I'd love to hear how.
Author:  cygnus [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
I find it deliciously ironic that some guy just posted all these tactics on how to steal a girl from another guy and here you are talking about how you're worried about it happening to you. Truth is no-one likes to be cheated on, so if you play fair, sooner or later you will get treated fairly. Things might not be peachy but I think eventually you will find someone with the same values as you and have a thriving relationship.

People think that love is enough in a relationship. Love is a small but very important part. If you don't constantly work to maintain your relationship, it will fail. You will encounter good times and bad times, but life isn't easy anyway, so adopt an accepting attitude. In my opinion, being a realist is the way to go.

You say that you suspect all women, and even men are inherently weak. You're not wrong because it is human nature. However we are not base animals. We have values and morals we aspire to. If we stop holding ourselves to ethical standards, we are as good as animals anyway. Some people want to blame the world, others want to take control and seize the happiness they are entitled to.

Which one are you?
Author:  Ryan Black SashaPUA [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
@Ryan. Yea you're absolutely right with jealousy making me insane which in turn will only increase chances that she'll go away. Knowing that I'm fucking awesome doesn't help with jealousy, cause I've seen these awesome laid back guys who still got cheated on...

If any of you guys knows how to deal with jealousy I'd really appreciate that. And I suppose its part of being unjust to one partner that makes me hate cheating. E.G. I saw a movie about 2 married couples cheating on each other with each other's partner. Kind of like swingers but without anyone knowing about another. That only made me laugh. They simply weren't right for each other IMO.

But when you see one cheating on another-that really pisses me off. Except for cheating on tests ;)-cheating system is good-cause system will cheat on you anyways ;)(don't bother-its just a cultural thing.)

Injustice in all its forms was always bothering me, although I get less affected by it as I get older, trying to accept it as a part of my life.

So, again, if anybody knows how to deal with jealousy-I'd love to hear how.
Jealousy is a byproduct of your own insecurities, fear of loss, and lack of abundance.

Think about it like this. Let's say you have been going out with a girl for just a few dates, but haven't slept with her yet. She's the only prospect you have going at the moment, after months of nothing, and she's really really hot and gets loads of attention from other guys.

If you took her out to a bar for your next date, and came back from the bathroom to find her talking animatedly with an attractive man, laughing and smiling at him, and touching his arm, BOOM pangs of jealousy. You've invested how much time into getting this girl, and this guy is gonna STEAL her before you get a chance to get in there. Fear of loss is high, you have a lack of abundance, and you haven't had time to demonstrate enough qualities to her to make her necessarily want to be with you, yet. It may take you some amount of self-control and composure to walk over, politely introduce yourself, have a chat with them, and then whisk her away without looking needy or protective.

In another case, you've been seeing the same girl for 4 months, the sex is amazing and she tells you as much. She's your favourite girl, but you have others that you see regularly as well. You're out for a casual drink in a bar, and you come back to find her chatting to the same attractive guy. Do you really care that much? Not really. Guys give her attention all the time, you're used to it. Your attitude is very much more "go on mate, give it your best shot!" Are you threatened by him? No, because you know that no matter what nice conversation they may have, you're gonna be taking her home tonight, not him. She trusts and respects you, and she knows that if she does something to piss you off too much, you'll be off in a second with another girl.

This is generally why I advocate open / polyamorous relationships, precisely because they acknowledge the jealousy issue, and work on the basis of people choosing to be together because they're having a fun time, and the bond and level of emotional investment developing over time, rather than forcing one party to accept demands and make promises, that are often broken anyway. The concept of each partner having to initially accept that they're probably also with multiple others may seem difficult to handle initially, but over time if it's your base assumption it becomes easier to deal with, and is far better, in my opinion, than having to deal with the nagging worry of whether your partner is lying and cheating behind your back.
Author:  Ryan Black SashaPUA [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
This is generally why I advocate open / polyamorous relationships, precisely because they acknowledge the jealousy issue, and work on the basis of people choosing to be together because they're having a fun time, and the bond and level of emotional investment developing over time
Bond and level of emotional investment always develops over time. All you are trying to do is lessen your vulnerability, through decreasing your emotional investment. This is why lots of PUAs still don't do well at relationships.
The way I see it, the standard model of

Go on a few dates
Have sex a few times
Start being bf-gf and assume monogamy

makes no sense, because it assumes this massive commitment - total exclusivity, very early on, way before the emotional commitment has had time to catch up. It basically is likely to force at least one partner to make a set of promises that they wouldn't have made of their own accord, but rather to please the other.

I actually see it as requiring a HIGHER level of emotional maturity to be able to be in a long-term relationship with a girl you really care about, where you knowingly allow them to see other people, but have the inner belief to know that they're not just gonna run off and ditch you for someone new. Also, having the abundance that if that does happen, you can accept that they're happier with the new person, stay friends with them, and then focus on your other girls or bringing new ones into your harem.

I think the way to truly know that two people are right for each other, is when they both independently say "you know what, I'm gonna cut off all the others because I only want to be with you." THAT'S a truly free choice of love, not something enforced by social convention and half-empty promises.
Author:  Ryan Black SashaPUA [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
but have the inner belief to know that they're not just gonna run off and ditch you for someone new.

Why would you even have this thought in the first place?
Quote:
Also, having the abundance that if that does happen, you can accept that they're happier with the new person, stay friends with them, and then focus on your other girls
How is monogamy any different?

1. It may surprise you to learn that a lot of men do fear their girl might leave them for a another guy. Not saying I do, but it's a common fear of loss mentality.

2. Because you can only have a proper abundance mentality when you're actually having sex with multiple women.
Author:  trixsta [ Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Most PUAs probably couldn't even seduce their own girlfriend, so I wouldn't worry too much. Think about it, the community is made up of a few marketing people then loads of people like us on forums.

If your girlfriend was to run off with another guy, it's much more likely it'd be a person of higher status, be he stinking rich, a celebrity, CEO of something, or just a lean, better looking tall guy etc.

I can only speak for my age but I know that from the ages of 15-20 lots of people get into relationships for the sake of it. They think that by committing to monogamy and giving a chance for something to grow is the best way. Maybe they are right, who am I to judge - but what I've also seen is unhappiness and boredom from both sides and either a split or in a lot of cases, cheating and hurt. Neither result is the goal of a relationship.

If the girl is mature enough to know what she wants and it's with you, don't worry. Often it's the girls who are in relationships for the sake of it and not because they are sure they'd pick their partner even when meeting other attractive people that are the ones that run off. It's sad but I've heard girls say "Oh I'll just get a new boyfriend when I go to university". Avoid those girls.

(I've also heard similar from guys. Don't be like that either)
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