PUA Forum :: Love Systems Scam: Upcoming Bootcamps?

Quote:

Are the bootcamps worth the collosal price?

Like with most things, some are, some aren't!

The important thing is to really research and ask the right questions of the companies you consider. Can you find verifiable reviews of their services? Is there in-field footage of instructors that is legitimate? Do the instructors seem like the kind of guys you'd enjoy hanging out with, and does their style work with the kind of personality you have or would like to have? How long have they been teaching? Do they have a money-back guarantee? What is their refund percentage? Who will actually be teaching on the bootcamp - the actual instructors, or just approach coaches with much less experience and knowledge? How many other students will be there? How much is sitting around learning theory, and how much is actually in-field? Etc.

From there, you can start to put together a price comparison for the bootcamps and companies that you think fit the bill for what you're looking for. In general, as with all comparison shopping - you'll find that with the cut price stuff, you're going to get what you pay for. Guy offering coaching for $15 a hour, or a $199 bootcamp is probably going to be one of two things - probably a bunch of novices who don't know what they're doing, or sometimes an extended sales pitch with tiny bits of content from someone more experienced.

On the flip side, there's a "luxury tax" for some of the bigger names, where they can afford to bump their prices up because they're well known and have good marketing, even though the value of the service isn't any better. Just think of how much more Hugo Boss can charge for a simple plain white t-shirt than H&M. Yeah, some of that is in the quality of the stitching and fabric, but 80% of that price difference is down to the "Boss" label and nothing more. And, whereas the fact that you're just wearing a designer label means a lot to some people, the fact that you went on a bootcamp with a well-known company isn't going to mean a girl is going to open any easier for you!

Once you find a few alternatives, then it's time to get in touch and speak to them. Good signs are if they sit down and listen to you, find out your sticking points, find out about you and how they could actually help you improve, and recommend a programme, even if it isn't their most expensive, that would suit you the best.

Bad signs are if a sales-ey guy calls, refuses to allow you to set up a time to speak with the actual instructor(s), pushes you to sign up RIGHT AWAY to the most expensive programme before it's TOO LATE, takes your basic details but doesn't actually mind what your particular sticking points or concerns are, tries NLP / conversational hypnosis / embedded commands / hypnotic suggestion, or generally treats you like another customer with money rather than a client with issues they want to help solve.

Once you've found the right programme for a fair price, then it's just about seeing it as an investment. Before I took a bootcamp, I'd spent $20-40 every time I went out, going out 2-4 nights a week, for 2 years - that's about $10,000, and it hadn't gotten me very far. I'd read plenty of material, but what I really needed was someone with a lot of experience who would push me into sets, give me instant feedback, and just give me the belief that if I just did what he said, the stuff would just click and it would start working. When you've actually paid something significant, you do push yourself more and want to get the most out of your money - and the more effort you put in, the more you'll get out.

Author:	kilativ15 [ Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Love Systems Scam: Upcoming Bootcamps?
I signed up on the Lovesystems attraction forums a few months back, to get some further study done on pick up. Shortly after joining I contacted a staff member, and he informed me on a variety of bootcamps. I was interested, but bloody hell lads, it cost an odd 3k per booth camp. I said I'l think about it and left it, but he calls over quiet often. This kinda reminds of those sleazy indian call centres trying to sell you stuff, kinda low. I understand its a market, but bloody hell its an expensive one! What are you're thoughts on this? Is it legit? Are the bootcamps worth the collosal price? 'Cause I'm pretty sure I could but a weekend abroad and some drinks, rather than take a weekend bootcamp!

Author:	Warped Mindless [ Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:17 am ]
Post subject:
Personally, I wouldn't pay a one dollar for a love systems bootcamp...or anything else from them either for that matter. And no, unless your are a completely hopeless person, don't take a bootcamp with any company!

Author:	Little Panda [ Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:07 am ]
Post subject:
I suggest you look in to Ross Jeffrie's website called PUAFraud. LoveSystems were exposed as being a sleazy company who scam people. A bunch of other companies are exposed too, so I'd suggest you take a look at that, to know which companies NOT to trust at least.

Author:	Warped Mindless [ Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:22 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: I suggest you look in to Ross Jeffrie's website called PUAFraud. LoveSystems were exposed as being a sleazy company who scam people. A bunch of other companies are exposed too, so I'd suggest you take a look at that, to know which companies NOT to trust at least. I dislike Love Systems as much as anyone but RJs site isn't exactly unbias. I mean, creating a website that discredits all my competition...sounds like a good business move to me.

Author:	Riskless1 [ Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:45 am ]
Post subject:
There is enough information available for free on the internet that there is no reason to go to a bootcamp unless you are extremely horrible with women. As I understand it, all the bootcamps do is get you in the zone by focusing on nothing but pua for a day and running through scenarios, then they go out and the pressure to perform makes you do things you wouldn't do otherwise. This can all be achieved through a lair, or even by yourself with some self motivation. I'd never go to a boot camp, and I would rarely recommend someone to do so.

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Author:	Little Panda [ Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Quote: I suggest you look in to Ross Jeffrie's website called PUAFraud. LoveSystems were exposed as being a sleazy company who scam people. A bunch of other companies are exposed too, so I'd suggest you take a look at that, to know which companies NOT to trust at least. I dislike Love Systems as much as anyone but RJs site isn't exactly unbias. I mean, creating a website that discredits all my competition...sounds like a good business move to me. You are right. This indeed helps his own business. What's making his PUA Fraud website legit is the fact that he show's the actual evidence of the fraud from other companies. His camera is picking up all the shady stuff from their websites. And if you don't believe his camera recordings - check out the websites yourself and you'll see that everything he says is true. Why is he doing this? * Gets rid of competition * Makes himself seem like a super-legit guy that everybody can trust * Sneakier way of advertising himself And the good part is - the rest of the world will know the truth about other companies - saving themselves the pain of being scammed. It's a win-win situation anyways, so why not support it

Author:	qstaind [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:
I have personally taken a love systems bootcamp and can vouche the $3000 is worth it. The knowledge, experience, hands on training, in person with the greats you read about is unmatchable. You could (like me) take the bootcamp in a foreign city and make a trip out of it. I had Mr. M and Braddock along with a bunch of jr coaches critiquing my every word and movement till it was precise in its execution. Its crazy how in depth in theory and logic they go. I literally have a notebook filled of great material for day game, club game, social circle mastery, text game, etc. And braddock and Mr. Ms personally favorite routines, openers, etc. Only thing i wasnt pleased with was the first night the club was too loud to hold a conversation. But seeing the instructors operate in field is quite incredible and an eye opener!

Author:	Psych3r [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: I suggest you look in to Ross Jeffrie's website called PUAFraud. LoveSystems were exposed as being a sleazy company who scam people. A bunch of other companies are exposed too, so I'd suggest you take a look at that, to know which companies NOT to trust at least. Jeffries seems like an old cynic with a chip on his shoulder and a hard on for anyone that makes him look bad. I'm not saying the guy doesn't deserve respect on some topics, but I will say he is absolutely in the game for his own benefits/advancements. I think bootcamps are only as good as A)the reputation of the people offering them and B) the willingness to participate and learn from the goers. I think for someone who is too petrified to approch a girl in general would absolutely benefit from a bootcamp, no matter who it gave it. I also think someone who had the basics down pretty good and was looking for 1 on 1 advanced critique would probably be dissapointed since you are in a group and sharing attention. Are there people who would be happy to take your money for barely any effort?? Unfortunately yes, and it has nothing to do with PUA, that's just life.

Author:	Jav [ Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:08 am ]
Post subject:
Pressuring others into bootcamps is just 'preying on the weak'. Simply said, don't let anyone (specially not a coach) pressure you into anything. It's sad but that's how it is nowadays. p.s. That whole RJ site is just as sad.

Author:	skills360 [ Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:19 am ]
Post subject:
Why do you use the word scam big word! unnecessary...

Author:	Ryan Black SashaPUA [ Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Love Systems Scam: Upcoming Bootcamps?
Quote: Are the bootcamps worth the collosal price? Like with most things, some are, some aren't! The important thing is to really research and ask the right questions of the companies you consider. Can you find verifiable reviews of their services? Is there in-field footage of instructors that is legitimate? Do the instructors seem like the kind of guys you'd enjoy hanging out with, and does their style work with the kind of personality you have or would like to have? How long have they been teaching? Do they have a money-back guarantee? What is their refund percentage? Who will actually be teaching on the bootcamp - the actual instructors, or just approach coaches with much less experience and knowledge? How many other students will be there? How much is sitting around learning theory, and how much is actually in-field? Etc. From there, you can start to put together a price comparison for the bootcamps and companies that you think fit the bill for what you're looking for. In general, as with all comparison shopping - you'll find that with the cut price stuff, you're going to get what you pay for. Guy offering coaching for $15 a hour, or a $199 bootcamp is probably going to be one of two things - probably a bunch of novices who don't know what they're doing, or sometimes an extended sales pitch with tiny bits of content from someone more experienced. On the flip side, there's a "luxury tax" for some of the bigger names, where they can afford to bump their prices up because they're well known and have good marketing, even though the value of the service isn't any better. Just think of how much more Hugo Boss can charge for a simple plain white t-shirt than H&M. Yeah, some of that is in the quality of the stitching and fabric, but 80% of that price difference is down to the "Boss" label and nothing more. And, whereas the fact that you're just wearing a designer label means a lot to some people, the fact that you went on a bootcamp with a well-known company isn't going to mean a girl is going to open any easier for you! Once you find a few alternatives, then it's time to get in touch and speak to them. Good signs are if they sit down and listen to you, find out your sticking points, find out about you and how they could actually help you improve, and recommend a programme, even if it isn't their most expensive, that would suit you the best. Bad signs are if a sales-ey guy calls, refuses to allow you to set up a time to speak with the actual instructor(s), pushes you to sign up RIGHT AWAY to the most expensive programme before it's TOO LATE, takes your basic details but doesn't actually mind what your particular sticking points or concerns are, tries NLP / conversational hypnosis / embedded commands / hypnotic suggestion, or generally treats you like another customer with money rather than a client with issues they want to help solve. Once you've found the right programme for a fair price, then it's just about seeing it as an investment. Before I took a bootcamp, I'd spent $20-40 every time I went out, going out 2-4 nights a week, for 2 years - that's about $10,000, and it hadn't gotten me very far. I'd read plenty of material, but what I really needed was someone with a lot of experience who would push me into sets, give me instant feedback, and just give me the belief that if I just did what he said, the stuff would just click and it would start working. When you've actually paid something significant, you do push yourself more and want to get the most out of your money - and the more effort you put in, the more you'll get out.

Author:	Warped Mindless [ Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Love Systems Scam: Upcoming Bootcamps?
Quote: Quote: Are the bootcamps worth the collosal price? Like with most things, some are, some aren't! The important thing is to really research and ask the right questions of the companies you consider. Can you find verifiable reviews of their services? Is there in-field footage of instructors that is legitimate? Do the instructors seem like the kind of guys you'd enjoy hanging out with, and does their style work with the kind of personality you have or would like to have? How long have they been teaching? Do they have a money-back guarantee? What is their refund percentage? Who will actually be teaching on the bootcamp - the actual instructors, or just approach coaches with much less experience and knowledge? How many other students will be there? How much is sitting around learning theory, and how much is actually in-field? Etc. From there, you can start to put together a price comparison for the bootcamps and companies that you think fit the bill for what you're looking for. In general, as with all comparison shopping - you'll find that with the cut price stuff, you're going to get what you pay for. Guy offering coaching for $15 a hour, or a $199 bootcamp is probably going to be one of two things - probably a bunch of novices who don't know what they're doing, or sometimes an extended sales pitch with tiny bits of content from someone more experienced. On the flip side, there's a "luxury tax" for some of the bigger names, where they can afford to bump their prices up because they're well known and have good marketing, even though the value of the service isn't any better. Just think of how much more Hugo Boss can charge for a simple plain white t-shirt than H&M. Yeah, some of that is in the quality of the stitching and fabric, but 80% of that price difference is down to the "Boss" label and nothing more. And, whereas the fact that you're just wearing a designer label means a lot to some people, the fact that you went on a bootcamp with a well-known company isn't going to mean a girl is going to open any easier for you! Once you find a few alternatives, then it's time to get in touch and speak to them. Good signs are if they sit down and listen to you, find out your sticking points, find out about you and how they could actually help you improve, and recommend a programme, even if it isn't their most expensive, that would suit you the best. Bad signs are if a sales-ey guy calls, refuses to allow you to set up a time to speak with the actual instructor(s), pushes you to sign up RIGHT AWAY to the most expensive programme before it's TOO LATE, takes your basic details but doesn't actually mind what your particular sticking points or concerns are, tries NLP / conversational hypnosis / embedded commands / hypnotic suggestion, or generally treats you like another customer with money rather than a client with issues they want to help solve. Once you've found the right programme for a fair price, then it's just about seeing it as an investment. Before I took a bootcamp, I'd spent $20-40 every time I went out, going out 2-4 nights a week, for 2 years - that's about $10,000, and it hadn't gotten me very far. I'd read plenty of material, but what I really needed was someone with a lot of experience who would push me into sets, give me instant feedback, and just give me the belief that if I just did what he said, the stuff would just click and it would start working. When you've actually paid something significant, you do push yourself more and want to get the most out of your money - and the more effort you put in, the more you'll get out. Awesome post and all very true.

Author:	IndyPUA [ Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:
No PUA company is perfect, but Love Systems is definitely NOT a scam. It's one of the few reputable, professional PUA companies out there. You can say a bootcamp is a good or not for a guy, but if you do take a bootcamp, you won't go wrong with Love Systems. There may be better, I don't know, but you're not going to regret your decision

Author:	Warped Mindless [ Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: No PUA company is perfect, but Love Systems is definitely NOT a scam. It's one of the few reputable, professional PUA companies out there. You can say a bootcamp is a good or not for a guy, but if you do take a bootcamp, you won't go wrong with Love Systems. There may be better, I don't know, but you're not going to regret your decision Yeah man, for 2,000+ dollars you can get told by a un-qualified guy (read: coach) to go approach some fatty with the cube!

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Author:	DJ_Z [ Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:
I've heard a lot of shady things about lovesystems. My experience with business as a whole is that when enough people speak out against it, it is worth very thorough investigation. And that means stepping away from the websites' reviews and trying to talk to the people in charge. As said before, if someone tries to pressure you to sign up, front any money, or make any sort of commitment before you can speak to people involved and get as much information as possible, they are trying to hide something 99% of the time.