I too believe that 'telling a girl' that you're not looking for a relationship on the very first day is a great way to save your ass for the inevitable day.

She'll sit you down, or if she's smart, wait until she's swallowed the last drop of your cum and go, "So where's our relationship going?" (There are a few other versions of the same message)

Hey, PUA! This is your shot baby! Pull that fucking card out of the file cabinet! Ehmm. . .let's see, you're Jenny . . . no, Sarah. Hmm. . . Feb. 12, here it is. "I am not ready for an exclusive relationship." - This is what I told you 5 months ago. Don't you remember? Ha ha ha! Verbal contract right there in my files sucka!!!! (Shaking your head back and forth like your 7th grade history teacher adds to the dramatic effect)

Usually, they cry. Some continue to cry and some transistion to anger . . . others continue on to physical displays of disappointment. The worst . . . the very worst are the girls who hold it all in. "Oh . . . yeah, I totally agree. I just didn't want us to get carried away . . ." - Then they do that flakey act not too different from the day you met. (She's cool with sucking cock on the first date. She's cool with fucking a dude for 5 months thinking that he might actually find some interest in her someday. She's even more proud of how cool she is with honoring verbal 'bedroom' contracts on a drunken first date)

This is about when the PUA feels pretty good about himself. History tells him that 'this one is over' but he can pat himself on the back for 'telling the truth'(5 months ago) and he can feel good about 'leaving the girl better than he found her' - Hey . . . he taught her that she should learn to value verbal contracts more than her fucked up fantasy land dreams she learned from Walt Disney movies. So you walk away with a few thoughts in your head:

"Thanks for 5 months of pussy."
"The girl is delusional. I told her 5 months ago that . . . "
"I left her better than I found her."

But strangely, you still feel a bit weird. Hey . . .it's NOT MY FAULT AT ALL! . . . but you know she's feeling like shit and that makes you feel like shit. So you call up a few chicks. Nothing like fucking to get rid of that yucky feeling in your mind.

Then everything clears:

1. Go get more putang.
2. Make sure to offer them your verbal contract. (You'll need it later on!!)
3. Leave them better than you found them. (Works really well when you're not actually looking at them and while you're fucking a decent alterantive)

I see where you're coming from. But in my opinion, a lot of us have become manipulated by the devil when it comes to situations like these. "Don't lie to the girl. Be honest with her and tell her you just want sex." Nooo lol. In my religon, and in a lot of other religons, pre-marital sex is very wrong. Far more wrong than lying. So when I hear people say to be honest with a girl, and if she's cool then have sex, that my friends is the devil playing tricks on you. lol. See how our priorities are changed. Lying to a girl is not ok, but having sex with her is just fine, before marriage.

Now I'm not saying everyone here has a religon. But from what I've experienced in my life, the majority of people believe in a religon, and there religons say pre-marital sex is a no no. So I'ma assume the same for this website.

And I'm not saying that you should lie and have sex. (You do what u want) I just don't like it when people say, "you can have pre-marital sex, but not lie to a girl".

Here's my post from another thread. It all comes down to beliefs.

You know you're going to need a hell of alot of proof if you want anyone to take your opinion as a serious observation and not dismiss it like they do with the crazy on the corner of the street.

PuaKing...I'm sorry but that was a really weak argument
Let's ignore the books my nutjob ancestors wrote
And look at this from a rational angle

Lying to use someone is deceitful and causes them pain, and will in the long run cause you pain. You probably wont see her again and you'll have psychologically effected her in the long run, especially if you were the first person she likes. Note this example doesnt include sex.

On the other hand, two consenting people who both understand the terms of the "contract" as someone put it doesn't hurt anyone. Both people want to do it, and both members understand what the encounter is going to entail. "we're just hooking up, neither one of us wants a relationship"

Sex with someone you care about is always better imo, but two people having a good time>lying and manipulating to get something from someone

Well you obviously don't have a religon. That's cool, but don't diss on people who believe in a religon. Anyways, I fail to argue with you b/c it seems like you don't believe in a religon... so it'd be a waste of time.

I said in my post that I was ignoring religion and instead focusing on your argument, which was :

having sex before marriage is worse than lying to manipulate someone

But in my opinion, a lot of us have become manipulated by the devil when it comes to situations like these.