PUA Forum :: Giving advice

I have seen a lot of this over the years. People handing out advice. Thats all good. I like that, it is what makes this forum great!

However, i see a lot of people proclaiming their own truth to people who just starts out in the game. These people have just started to find their way in the jungle of information that is out there. They have weak inner game and tacky outer game.

We have all been there.

A lot of the guys giving advice (I have been one myself) just state sentences like "Just be yourself" or "its all in your head"...

And they are right! Thats not the problem. The problem is that that is right for them. That is the realization they just got and think that hey, I would like to have known this earlier. But what they forget is that most likely people have been telling them that over and over again. I just re read my old posts.

They have heard exactly that. But they were not ready to appreciate it to its full potential.

A master PUA can "just be himself", a newbie cant. And why? Because the master have got inner game, outer game and the training required for it to work. A newbie is insecure and scared, if he would just be himself he would still be in his bedroom with a dirty magazine and some toiletpaper.

So people, what I am trying to say is:

Give advice based on the other guys level, not based on your level.

And that this "advice" is being handed out by everyone, qualified or not.

Well, Pickup is not a science... And we are here to discuss it and exchange ideas arent we.

Quote:

Well, Pickup is not a science... And we are here to discuss it and exchange ideas arent we.

Neither is cookery, doesn't mean a Michellin star chef should be considered in the same light as Barry "the master of instant noodles".

In essence, practical knowledge, it's largely a self regulated thing.

---

In a discussion, there is a notion, of wanting to know more, or feeling uncertain. With "advice", what's being said is worth listening to as a source of some objective truth.

All it takes is 10 screaming morons to drown out 1 genius.

In a discussion, there is a notion, of wanting to know more, or feeling uncertain. With "advice", what's being said is worth listening to as a source of some objective truth

Quote:

In a discussion, there is a notion, of wanting to know more, or feeling uncertain. With "advice", what's being said is worth listening to as a source of some objective truth

Advice is discussion.

It is because advice for Pickup is not an absolute there can be multiple answers to the same problem. This is not a math problem, its an abstract, this is truly a behavioral science, PU could almost be put into applied social psychology for outer game, and self-help psych for inner game.

Quote:

In a discussion, there is a notion, of wanting to know more, or feeling uncertain. With "advice", what's being said is worth listening to as a source of some objective truth

Author:	Ezo [ Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Giving advice
I have seen a lot of this over the years. People handing out advice. Thats all good. I like that, it is what makes this forum great! However, i see a lot of people proclaiming their own truth to people who just starts out in the game. These people have just started to find their way in the jungle of information that is out there. They have weak inner game and tacky outer game. We have all been there. A lot of the guys giving advice (I have been one myself) just state sentences like "Just be yourself" or "its all in your head"... And they are right! Thats not the problem. The problem is that that is right for them. That is the realization they just got and think that hey, I would like to have known this earlier. But what they forget is that most likely people have been telling them that over and over again. I just re read my old posts. They have heard exactly that. But they were not ready to appreciate it to its full potential. A master PUA can "just be himself", a newbie cant. And why? Because the master have got inner game, outer game and the training required for it to work. A newbie is insecure and scared, if he would just be himself he would still be in his bedroom with a dirty magazine and some toiletpaper. So people, what I am trying to say is: Give advice based on the other guys level, not based on your level.

Author:	Chelios [ Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Giving advice
Quote: I have seen a lot of this over the years. People handing out advice. Thats all good. I like that, it is what makes this forum great! However, i see a lot of people proclaiming their own truth to people who just starts out in the game. These people have just started to find their way in the jungle of information that is out there. They have weak inner game and tacky outer game. We have all been there. A lot of the guys giving advice (I have been one myself) just state sentences like "Just be yourself" or "its all in your head"... And they are right! Thats not the problem. The problem is that that is right for them. That is the realization they just got and think that hey, I would like to have known this earlier. But what they forget is that most likely people have been telling them that over and over again. I just re read my old posts. They have heard exactly that. But they were not ready to appreciate it to its full potential. A master PUA can "just be himself", a newbie cant. And why? Because the master have got inner game, outer game and the training required for it to work. A newbie is insecure and scared, if he would just be himself he would still be in his bedroom with a dirty magazine and some toiletpaper. So people, what I am trying to say is: Give advice based on the other guys level, not based on your level. Good post Ezo as always. Good if people can go a little in depth with advice too, so people can get an understanding of what level each individual is at, they can pin point certain bits then too. The quest for a newbie is to be himself but in a "new" way. Confident, fun, better all around person.

Author:	Grunty [ Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:
Going to have to agree with this. A newbie can go out there with his act until he learns his inner game. Then he can be himself.

Author:	Fin [ Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:
Hmm, the thing I can't stand about this forum is that everyone is constantly giving advice. The big problem being that it is being handed out as "advice"; when in truth it is a regurgitated half hashed pseudo theory. And that this "advice" is being handed out by everyone, qualified or not.

Author:	Ezo [ Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:
Well, Pickup is not a science... And we are here to discuss it and exchange ideas arent we.

PUA Forum https://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/

Giving advice https://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=77101	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Jelly [ Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: And that this "advice" is being handed out by everyone, qualified or not. and what are the minimum requirements for qualified?? you beat me to it Ezo, If we dont discuss, debate and argue of whats what how can a community develop and further the knowledge of whole. I take a side in some threads just to generate a furthering knowledge of all. Elitism is never a positive thing, it keeps the top in control and hinders the end result of the group.

Author:	Chelios [ Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:
Forum's are for conversation, discussion, in pickup, it's science as Ezo stated, there are techniques, rights and wrongs, but many alternative paths. Advice should be given, people ask for it, whether people think someone's advice is quality enough is up to them, take it, or read the next man's post and take his.

Author:	Fin [ Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Well, Pickup is not a science... And we are here to discuss it and exchange ideas arent we. Neither is cookery, doesn't mean a Michellin star chef should be considered in the same light as Barry "the master of instant noodles". In essence, practical knowledge, it's largely a self regulated thing. --- In a discussion, there is a notion, of wanting to know more, or feeling uncertain. With "advice", what's being said is worth listening to as a source of some objective truth. All it takes is 10 screaming morons to drown out 1 genius.

Author:	Ezo [ Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:
Yeah, well, the intention of this post was not to debate who is allowed to give their opinion on something. Everybody are and thats awesome. I mean, a newbie can come up with a great idea sometimes. The fact that I am against is that people of a higher level of the game oversimplify matters just because they themselves have reached a point where they dont have to care anymore. Like a natural told me when I discussed pickup a while ago. He said: There are no rules, you just need to be horny and you get laid. For a non natural that comment would have been stuck up and arrogant. But I mean, yeah, from his point of view he was right, he doesnt have to care about any rules, because he already does everything right. It comes to him naturally. Same thing with us. I can sit here telling you that all that matters is inner game, and I truly feel that way since I have got my outer game up to a decent level. Now my main task is to shape up my inner game to annoyingly high levels. But that doesnt mean that that is the case for everybody. Some people have to work with their AA, I dont, I never have. But does that mean that I can tell a newbie who is paralyzed with fear to "just do it"? No of course not, that is useless information for him, it will only make him feel worse. So I have to look at the problem from his point of view... That is the main point, try to understand the guy asking for advice based on his situation, not yours.

Author:	Ezo [ Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Quote: Well, Pickup is not a science... And we are here to discuss it and exchange ideas arent we. Neither is cookery, doesn't mean a Michellin star chef should be considered in the same light as Barry "the master of instant noodles". In essence, practical knowledge, it's largely a self regulated thing. --- In a discussion, there is a notion, of wanting to know more, or feeling uncertain. With "advice", what's being said is worth listening to as a source of some objective truth. All it takes is 10 screaming morons to drown out 1 genius. I do agree, advice coming from experienced PUAs are worth more than the advice from a KJ.

Author:	Grunty [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:37 am ]
Post subject:
It definately makes a good read when two succesful puas with radically different beliefs discuss them. Bad advice isn't too bad to hear either just so long as somebody who knows their stuff is the one to set them straight

Author:	Jelly [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: In a discussion, there is a notion, of wanting to know more, or feeling uncertain. With "advice", what's being said is worth listening to as a source of some objective truth Advice is discussion. It is because advice for Pickup is not an absolute there can be multiple answers to the same problem. This is not a math problem, its an abstract, this is truly a behavioral science, PU could almost be put into applied social psychology for outer game, and self-help psych for inner game.

Author:	Ezo [ Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:06 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Quote: In a discussion, there is a notion, of wanting to know more, or feeling uncertain. With "advice", what's being said is worth listening to as a source of some objective truth Advice is discussion. It is because advice for Pickup is not an absolute there can be multiple answers to the same problem. This is not a math problem, its an abstract, this is truly a behavioral science, PU could almost be put into applied social psychology for outer game, and self-help psych for inner game. Yep! Exactly! I am not a psychologist but I guess that most PUAs could benefit from a professional shapeup of their psyche. I know that I would have done that long ago if I had the spare money. It would be great for inner game I think. And I think that inner game is a good way to get started if you have issues. But Im sure that nothing beats professional help.

Author:	AFC Royal [ Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:56 am ]
Post subject:
I agree with what you're saying Ezo, but I think we need a disclaimer. If a newbie is opening a hired gun or something, and they fail, right now we're telling them negs are unnecessary and they should just "be the man". If people listened to you, they would say, "OK, go ahead and use a neg to help you out". This allows a lot of misinterpretation to happen, with the newbies starting to think that women like to get treated like shit. I just think that your advice needs to also be blended with a little bit of higher-level "inner game" type of stuff so that newbies understand WHY the advice we're giving helps. I know I'm not being very clear, so just ask me to clarify the parts you don't get.

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Author:	Fin [ Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Quote: In a discussion, there is a notion, of wanting to know more, or feeling uncertain. With "advice", what's being said is worth listening to as a source of some objective truth Advice is discussion. It is because advice for Pickup is not an absolute there can be multiple answers to the same problem. This is not a math problem, its an abstract, this is truly a behavioral science, PU could almost be put into applied social psychology for outer game, and self-help psych for inner game. I've already gone into why I don't think PU is subjective field. ---------------- "The best way to (P) is (S)" - Advice. "I have a feeling that the best way to (P) is (S) because i have had experience (E). I have also seen X doing/talking about.....(S) You could look into..... (N) though, becuase I know he disagrees and likes (Y) instead.... so may be worth reading his stuff..."- Discussion. Way I see it, advice is part of a dialogue but it's miles from discussion. It should not be up to other people to smack bullshit out of your mouth, and it is not the responsibility of the newbie to know bad advice from good advice (Even if it were his responsibility, how can he?). As speakers I feel WE have the responsibility to shut up when we don't know what we are talking about, and to make it clear that our input (when we chose to give input) is OUR input and may be flawed or mis-informed. This forum is filled with basement masturbators handing out advice and new recruits mimicing meme's from more experienced PUA to up their status in the heirarchy, the current problem regarding mis-information and blinkered mindsets in the PU world is down to the fact that everyone is giving advice, rather than actually laying out their views with a reasonable disclaimer and then actively listening to someone else.