PUA Forum :: "Persistence" vs. "Neediness"

Quote:

Hi!

In an early stage where you and the girl haven't met for a day 2 yet, and are still texting back and forth, when do you know you FUCKED UP and lost her? I find it hard to draw the line between being "persistent" and being "needy". I've had many times where the girl doesn't reply to my text messages anymore (usually after suggesting a day 2). Should I act like nothing happened and continue suggesting to hang out with her or is this "needy". Also, if I don't get a response after sending an initial text, should I give up immediately? Almost all numbers I collect are from direct cold approaches btw.

Thanks for your advice,

Chief hits pretty hard in his responses. You’re lucky you got a response from him.

A couple of years ago I was considered a desperate and needy guy. I looked for women to accept me. This acceptance validates my life, and motivates me to keep trying. Using PUA and a “no fear” attitude I was able to get girls, but they were needy. They clinged to me for their sanity - I hated it. I'm realizing that I have to be a complete person before I can get with a girl who is not needy. I can't hide who I am, and there is no point in simple sex for me. I want a relationship and fulfillment. The hardest thing for me is to become a complete person without parents to support me.

I look for attractive women who have strong parental bonds and after I found one I started to hang around her. I end up caring more about her than I do about myself. Because she brings so much good guidance I wante to be with her forever, and it creeped her out. I started to imagine the future with her, and the happiness we would have. Then I got one-itis. (this happens a lot with other guys too)

So I'm now working on trying to not care so much about this girl. I’m trying to “play it cool” I fear I have lost it with Kate forever, and I am coming to grips with that. It’s sad that she may be hurting over me. I don’t know if she is, but I know she called me her best guy friend. And here I am trying to date her in the most awkward way because I let my neediness control my thoughts.

My personal approach is to truly become not needy. In order to do this I have to have such a strong system of support. I need extreme guidance. I need the love and support my parents never offered me. Then I can offer my strength to a girl who is "not needy" and when two complete people get into a relationship for the right reasons the possibilities are endless.

My Plan: Try and get back in the friend zone with Kate. Realize that by asking her on a date I displayed how truly needy I was, and it turned her off. Because I text messaged her the date at 11pm on a friday night out of the blue. I feel ashamed because I am needy. I fell in love with a girl who didn't love me. It's embarrassing. Now I am here spilling my heart out to internet strangers because I lack the system of support I truly need. Maybe I could go to church. Find a pastor to help me. Or start paying a psychologist like 125 per week to let me vent. I have struggled the most with relationships - more than any other aspect of my life. It’s because my parents never taught me how to have a functional relationship. Everything I have learned is from self- help books and PUA.

Well, I hope I didn't derail this topic. I really appreciate you guys listening to me. Thank you for letting me vent.

Sincerely,
Magnum45

P.S. Mister Boss, my advice to you is to forget about her and move on. You wouldn't care about her if you didn't need her in your life for some reason. She can sense that. And I don't mean any disrespect to PUA, but PUA is not the answer to neediness- it just masks it. Most PUA's will tell you to focus on yourself. You have to be complete.

Author:	Mister Boss [ Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:	"Persistence" vs. "Neediness"
Hi! In an early stage where you and the girl haven't met for a day 2 yet, and are still texting back and forth, when do you know you FUCKED UP and lost her? I find it hard to draw the line between being "persistent" and being "needy". I've had many times where the girl doesn't reply to my text messages anymore (usually after suggesting a day 2). Should I act like nothing happened and continue suggesting to hang out with her or is this "needy". Also, if I don't get a response after sending an initial text, should I give up immediately? Almost all numbers I collect are from direct cold approaches btw. Thanks for your advice,

Author:	R.G. [ Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:
In my opinion: You are viewing it from the wrong angle to begin with. Setting up day 2 comes BEFORE loads of texting/number close. If this is not possible, you should have built enough attraction (if not comfort as well) in your original approach, so that the texting process is only merely for formalities. If you are in the position that you are trying to 'manufacture' a day 2 via text, that means you fucked up during the original meet. Once you departed there, there should have been subcommunication that you will see each other again, if you hadn't verbalised it. The number is not important. Many guys are able to escalate heavily through text; this has never been for me but I commend those guys who can. Instead, I usually use text as a process to gain more comfort, nothing more. It's a dangerous medium in my opinion and should be kept to a minimum before the lay. Try and call where possible but many girls in my experience are too shy to pick up even if they want to. Still, try and set up the day 2 over calling. You have more control. If she doesn't respond to it after a text, it's probably gameover; I'd try once more going direct, and if there is no response or a negative response, cut the tie and move on; it's due to a mistake you made earlier in your game, not the setting up of the day 2. Remember, 'closes' like setting up the day 2 are not like pulling a trigger and shooting a gun. It's more like spending time to load a catapault. When you finally pull the trigger there, everything's already set up. See: scales-of-closing-the-importance-of-sol ... 55851.html

Author:	Ezo [ Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:
Im too lazy to be persistent. It is also more fun to go out to find a new project.

Author:	R.G. [ Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:
^Broadly speaking, I'm the same. Although, even if we don't possess this trait within our characteristics, it certainly has its powerful uses to someone with strong inner game. By that, in this case I mean someone who's not afraid of failure. I'd take a case study of a café worker I approached last year - she was an 8 - and I had asked her out right off the bat (most of the game was non-verbal). A gazillion important things happened at the micro-verbal and non-verbal level, but in short, she replied with "Umm, I don't think that's a good idea, I have a boyfriend"; to which I made some jokes, and asked her out again (I knew she was lying). The second time, she said yes, but upon switching numbers she suddenly said she'd take mine instead of me taking hers (bad news). I played dumb and accepted this proposition because I knew I could regame her later. Sadly, I never got round to it (that's mostly a poor excuse), and she had left by the time I did. But if I had persisted, I would have gotten a proper day 2. Persistence there was shown by my ploughing after the initial rejection, but not after the second (subtle rejection) - if I had, I would have closed her. Moral of the story - persistence is persistence and not neediness only when you have a frame that is not outcome dependent and based on an abundance-mentality. Then you are just an alpha trying to get what you want, rather than a beta clinging onto hope.

Author:	Marc [ Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: "Persistence" vs. "Neediness"
Quote: In an early stage where you and the girl haven't met for a day 2 yet, and are still texting back and forth, when do you know you FUCKED UP and lost her? I find it hard to draw the line .......Thanks for your advice, Depends on what your goals are. If you want to COMPLETELY learn this whole PUA thing then you should push you limits WITH CALIBERATION. But if you think you just want to find a girlfriend or two to spend the rest of your life with and not in for Games then dont bother. I dont pursue myself and had this question posted in this forum on which some of the guys advised. I took their advise and ended up on a 3 week dating spree by calling up dead leads !!! - So dont assume anything.

PUA Forum https://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/

"Persistence" vs. "Neediness" https://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=64329	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Chief [ Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:56 am ]
Post subject:
Persistence in the context of pickup and seduction is SEXUAL. Neediness is a validation-seeking ego based concept related to value. They are starkly different. Persistence: 1. Girl turns away and gives you the cheek when you try to kiss her 2. You maintain sexual frame/state because you know it's just ASD 3. You try to kiss her again in a few minutes after building more tension Neediness: 1. Girl turns away and gives you the cheek when you try to kiss her 2. You get sad and feel like less of a man because you think it's about you 3. You buy her drinks and beg for her to be attracted to you

Author:	denzel [ Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:
#1 When ever I set up a day 2 it is always mention on the first encounter. #2 First text. Hi How are you? Which will get a standard reply - good how are you? #3 Second text. Im good ^^ are you free tuesday or friday I want to take you to (park, mall, drinks with friends etc) #4 From here she will agree, suggest another time or let you down.. #5 Lets pretend she agrees, sort out the details and end with "see you later "

Author:	Ezo [ Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Persistence: 1. Girl turns away and gives you the cheek when you try to kiss her 2. You maintain sexual frame/state because you know it's just ASD 3. You try to kiss her again in a few minutes after building more tension But thats trying again after changing something vital. Wash, imrpove and repeat. I was thinking more like persistance: 1. Try to kiss her, she turns away. 2. Dont do anything to improve the situation. 3. Try to kiss her again.

Author:	Mister Boss [ Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:
Thanks for offering me some point of views and clearing things up guys. Quote: #1 When ever I set up a day 2 it is always mention on the first encounter. #2 First text. Hi How are you? Which will get a standard reply - good how are you? #3 Second text. Im good ^^ are you free tuesday or friday I want to take you to (park, mall, drinks with friends etc) #4 From here she will agree, suggest another time or let you down.. #5 Lets pretend she agrees, sort out the details and end with "see you later " Sounds simple and effective! I tend to avoid questions though(maybe that's why girls stop responding. They think I'm not showing genuine interest aka playing games?!) Don't you ever use a non-reaction seeking text? Something as simple as: 'Hey cutie '

Author:	denzel [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:47 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Don't you ever use a non-reaction seeking text? Something as simple as: 'Hey cutie ' No not anymore I prefer to compliment in person, its far more effective and personal. Also I think "hey cutie" is a very reactive type of text that is in her head of course

Author:	magnum45 [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: "Persistence" vs. "Neediness"
Quote: Hi! In an early stage where you and the girl haven't met for a day 2 yet, and are still texting back and forth, when do you know you FUCKED UP and lost her? I find it hard to draw the line between being "persistent" and being "needy". I've had many times where the girl doesn't reply to my text messages anymore (usually after suggesting a day 2). Should I act like nothing happened and continue suggesting to hang out with her or is this "needy". Also, if I don't get a response after sending an initial text, should I give up immediately? Almost all numbers I collect are from direct cold approaches btw. Thanks for your advice, Chief hits pretty hard in his responses. You’re lucky you got a response from him. A couple of years ago I was considered a desperate and needy guy. I looked for women to accept me. This acceptance validates my life, and motivates me to keep trying. Using PUA and a “no fear” attitude I was able to get girls, but they were needy. They clinged to me for their sanity - I hated it. I'm realizing that I have to be a complete person before I can get with a girl who is not needy. I can't hide who I am, and there is no point in simple sex for me. I want a relationship and fulfillment. The hardest thing for me is to become a complete person without parents to support me. I look for attractive women who have strong parental bonds and after I found one I started to hang around her. I end up caring more about her than I do about myself. Because she brings so much good guidance I wante to be with her forever, and it creeped her out. I started to imagine the future with her, and the happiness we would have. Then I got one-itis. (this happens a lot with other guys too) So I'm now working on trying to not care so much about this girl. I’m trying to “play it cool” I fear I have lost it with Kate forever, and I am coming to grips with that. It’s sad that she may be hurting over me. I don’t know if she is, but I know she called me her best guy friend. And here I am trying to date her in the most awkward way because I let my neediness control my thoughts. My personal approach is to truly become not needy. In order to do this I have to have such a strong system of support. I need extreme guidance. I need the love and support my parents never offered me. Then I can offer my strength to a girl who is "not needy" and when two complete people get into a relationship for the right reasons the possibilities are endless. My Plan: Try and get back in the friend zone with Kate. Realize that by asking her on a date I displayed how truly needy I was, and it turned her off. Because I text messaged her the date at 11pm on a friday night out of the blue. I feel ashamed because I am needy. I fell in love with a girl who didn't love me. It's embarrassing. Now I am here spilling my heart out to internet strangers because I lack the system of support I truly need. Maybe I could go to church. Find a pastor to help me. Or start paying a psychologist like 125 per week to let me vent. I have struggled the most with relationships - more than any other aspect of my life. It’s because my parents never taught me how to have a functional relationship. Everything I have learned is from self- help books and PUA. Well, I hope I didn't derail this topic. I really appreciate you guys listening to me. Thank you for letting me vent. Sincerely, Magnum45 P.S. Mister Boss, my advice to you is to forget about her and move on. You wouldn't care about her if you didn't need her in your life for some reason. She can sense that. And I don't mean any disrespect to PUA, but PUA is not the answer to neediness- it just masks it. Most PUA's will tell you to focus on yourself. You have to be complete.

Author:	denzel [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:28 am ]
Post subject:
I admire your brutal honesty Magnum, it means your are on the right path to completing yourself Do you have a tight group of friends, ones that you can open up too? I have been a couchsurfer (couchsurfing.org - CouchSurfing is a worldwide network for making connections between travelers and the local communities they visit.) for over a year now and I can't begin to describe the amazing people I have met and will meet through this hub (its not about fucking, well there is the possibility cuz I have met plenty of hotties) its all about meeting people to share a piece of you life, your culture your hometown maybe they live there with you maybe they are only visiting. All I know is the people I have meet have changed my life and are also a big anchor of support and guidance. Here is someones testimonial "CouchSurfing is just amazing. I joined this community a couple of years ago. Since then, I've had incredible experiences with all the people I've hosted, met at the gatherings, and whose couch I've surfed, from France to Vietnam. In everyday life, it can be hard to find deeply motivated, nonconformist, cultured people with high goals in life: really interesting people. But CouchSurfing is just full of these individuals. It's a conglomerate of well-intentioned people, of good karma, and you just have to jump in to enjoy it. The CouchSurfing project definitely changed my life. And it has changed many people's lives. Through this process, connecting people from elsewhere, bringing them together, I believe the world is also going to change. Perhaps we don't see it now. But in the future, we will." If you do join I recommend searching for your cities forum and checking out the up and coming events, plus its a great place to practice game just don't be overly sexual play it light or you may be labeled a creep and get bad feedback. Here are other ways to help complete yourself. Learning some form of art I believe is one of the most powerful examples. Martial Arts - kicking, punching, yelling in a group environment Dance Classes - moving your hips in way you never thought possible, most probably in front of hot chicks too Drama - learning how to use your voice and body language!!! Painting - Letting out your inner imagination All of these are art forms and there are countless more, they all follow patterns, routines and repetitions which in turn build on your character and confidence not to mention they are great talking points. I hope this is useful for you Denzel

Author:	Nesho [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: "Persistence" vs. "Neediness"
Quote: Quote: Hi! In an early stage where you and the girl haven't met for a day 2 yet, and are still texting back and forth, when do you know you FUCKED UP and lost her? I find it hard to draw the line between being "persistent" and being "needy". I've had many times where the girl doesn't reply to my text messages anymore (usually after suggesting a day 2). Should I act like nothing happened and continue suggesting to hang out with her or is this "needy". Also, if I don't get a response after sending an initial text, should I give up immediately? Almost all numbers I collect are from direct cold approaches btw. Thanks for your advice, Chief hits pretty hard in his responses. You’re lucky you got a response from him. A couple of years ago I was considered a desperate and needy guy. I looked for women to accept me. This acceptance validates my life, and motivates me to keep trying. Using PUA and a “no fear” attitude I was able to get girls, but they were needy. They clinged to me for their sanity - I hated it. I'm realizing that I have to be a complete person before I can get with a girl who is not needy. I can't hide who I am, and there is no point in simple sex for me. I want a relationship and fulfillment. The hardest thing for me is to become a complete person without parents to support me. I look for attractive women who have strong parental bonds and after I found one I started to hang around her. I end up caring more about her than I do about myself. Because she brings so much good guidance I wante to be with her forever, and it creeped her out. I started to imagine the future with her, and the happiness we would have. Then I got one-itis. (this happens a lot with other guys too) So I'm now working on trying to not care so much about this girl. I’m trying to “play it cool” I fear I have lost it with Kate forever, and I am coming to grips with that. It’s sad that she may be hurting over me. I don’t know if she is, but I know she called me her best guy friend. And here I am trying to date her in the most awkward way because I let my neediness control my thoughts. My personal approach is to truly become not needy. In order to do this I have to have such a strong system of support. I need extreme guidance. I need the love and support my parents never offered me. Then I can offer my strength to a girl who is "not needy" and when two complete people get into a relationship for the right reasons the possibilities are endless. My Plan: Try and get back in the friend zone with Kate. Realize that by asking her on a date I displayed how truly needy I was, and it turned her off. Because I text messaged her the date at 11pm on a friday night out of the blue. I feel ashamed because I am needy. I fell in love with a girl who didn't love me. It's embarrassing. Now I am here spilling my heart out to internet strangers because I lack the system of support I truly need. Maybe I could go to church. Find a pastor to help me. Or start paying a psychologist like 125 per week to let me vent. I have struggled the most with relationships - more than any other aspect of my life. It’s because my parents never taught me how to have a functional relationship. Everything I have learned is from self- help books and PUA. Well, I hope I didn't derail this topic. I really appreciate you guys listening to me. Thank you for letting me vent. Sincerely, Magnum45 P.S. Mister Boss, my advice to you is to forget about her and move on. You wouldn't care about her if you didn't need her in your life for some reason. She can sense that. And I don't mean any disrespect to PUA, but PUA is not the answer to neediness- it just masks it. Most PUA's will tell you to focus on yourself. You have to be complete. That'll be 125 please

Author:	Chief [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:56 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Quote: Persistence: 1. Girl turns away and gives you the cheek when you try to kiss her 2. You maintain sexual frame/state because you know it's just ASD 3. You try to kiss her again in a few minutes after building more tension But thats trying again after changing something vital. Wash, imrpove and repeat. I was thinking more like persistance: 1. Try to kiss her, she turns away. 2. Dont do anything to improve the situation. 3. Try to kiss her again. Well, here's the thing. My step 2 said "maintain," which implies that the PUA already had a sexual state and/or frame to begin with. Holding that same state or frame after you get resistance will actually build more sexual tension even if you don't do anything different. So, it's basically the same thing.

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Author:	Ezo [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:
I guess it all comes down to if she thinks that you are interesting enough when you run into the problem or if she thinks that you are a loser. I have seen terrible things in the country where I currently live. Like, some AFC guy grinding up against a girl from behind, she tells him off and he just moves to the girl next to her and does the same. Or as a friend (girl) of mine said. Oh, that guy, he has been trying to kiss me for 2 years and I always say no... Sometimes peole need to realize that they arent gonna get there with that girl and no matter how persistent, they have lost.