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Managing others' perception of you & your game
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Author:  R.G. [ Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Managing others' perception of you & your game
This has become a key and serious issue for me over the past few months.

So I thought I'd mention it and welcome your thoughts as I haven't seen much covered on this issue before.

Note: If, like me, you don't have the time to read all this shit, skip to the bold blue bits :D

When you're doing your thing, running your game - whatever situation it may be - people who are not in the know will be seeing you surrounded by high value girls all the time, closing here and there perhaps, on dates with random girls.

This can often result in negative feelings towards you. Whether that's jealousy, thinking you're some kind of manwhore, feeling that you're ignoring them and being too selective in who you talk to...whatever.

It's much akin to being a magician. If any of you are serious, you will know that the hard part is not always performing the trick - but getting the audience to ENJOY your performance, rather than feeling like they are dumb/have been tricked/incessantly wanting to know how you do it.

We need a strategy/ideas to make sure that others perceive us well.

I was spurred on to write this after a 2-day conference I recently attended with my work mates. There were quite a few 7's hanging around so during breaks where everyone was talking I would bring them all together, social proof the venue and in the end, set up day 2's with two of the three (the third lived too far away). In fact I drove into the conference on the second day with one of them in the car with me.

All the while my colleagues are chode crystalling, eyeing me in the corner. At the pub afterwards we talk about it a lot - mostly they congratulate me on how I did it etc etc but in their good spirit I take it a bit too far and mention that I'm probably going to keep the 7's as nothing more than FBs. This does not go down so well.

In any case, oftentimes opinions are not so rosy, and people will even make fun of you. I'm not talking about trying to 'convince' people about PUA - that's a completely separate and long-discussed issue. This is about getting others to feel alright when they see you exponentially sarging the shit out of millions of blondes on a day-to-day basis.

What I've done so far is bring the girls and introduce them to the chodes in question, and let them talk. This way afterwards you can congratulate the chodes on helping you/winging you to pick them up and everyone's happy. But this is not always possible due to logistics.

How do we avoid bad feeling?

All thoughts welcome.

P.S>I hate to brand 'normal people' => 'chodes' but it's for the sake of comprehension.
Author:  Ciornia [ Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Rafiel, I'm glad you brought up this topic. It's something I've been thinking a lot about lately, spurred largely by two recent conversations.

In one, a female friend of mine told me, after a party we'd both gone to, that she thinks I flirt with too many women -- that she imagines I'm "leading on" a lot of them and setting them up for disappointment. Because she's a friend, I answered her seriously -- but with questions. Did I ask all of the women I talked to for their numbers? No. Are the women I talked to grown up and able to both mediate their expectations and decide what is best for themselves? Yes. So we don't need to insult their capabilities by treating them like babies? No. And do you think all the girls had fun talking and flirting with me? Yes. So where's the harm? She said that, on second thought, there wasn't any.

In the second conversation, another female friend of mine, who recently got married, criticized me for going on all kinds of dates but not -- and these were her words exactly -- "taking her friends off the market." Whoa. After turning things back on her, to explore why she felt so emotional about the topic of my dating life, I gave her my response: First, it's not my responsibility to "take her friends off the market." Second, it's really nobody's business but mine whom I date. (I didn't get into the idea that nearly all of her female friends are mean-spirited, toxic people and that it's no wonder they have problems attracting guys and maintaining relationships.)

Part of the answer to your question, Rafiel, is that we can't always avoid others' negative perceptions. If it's the case of a friend who makes a comment, we can, if we're so inclined, try to bring the friend to some understanding of our actions. Otherwise, the answer lies in not giving a shit how others view us in situations in which their negative perceptions of our behavior are rooted in their own limiting mindsets, petty jealousies, loaded agendas, or hypocritical pieties.

Ciornia
Author:  R.G. [ Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
^That's a brilliantly balanced and insightful input. I can't express my gratitude enough. As if you hadn't guessed, I more or less agree.

I'm impressed by the way you used questioning in the original case to bring the first friend to a fuller understanding. Almost always the best way.

Yes, I think to some extent it's a part of the job we have to accept and more importantly, expect.

I think it was Voltaire who said (to paraphrase); all great people have both great friends and great enemies.
Author:  Marc [ Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Rafiel buddy, its good that you are thinking about this. My answer is in a PM to you.
Quote:
....Because she's a friend, I answered her seriously -- but with questions. Did I ask all of the women I talked to for their numbers? No. Are the women I talked to grown up and able to both mediate their expectations and decide what is best for themselves? Yes. So we don't need to insult their capabilities by treating them like babies? No. And do you think all the girls had fun talking and flirting with me? Yes. So where's the harm? She said that, on second thought, there wasn't any........
I hear you Ciornia but do you think that she feels differetly about you after you have logically explained things to her !! - Your logic is great and I get it but you are trying to address an emotion with logic and hence I this no no more than a quick fix. When she sees you doing it again she cannot help but think of you in the same way...
Author:  Ciornia [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:06 am ]
Post subject: 
Rafiel, thanks for the kind words. Glad I could help.
Quote:
I hear you Ciornia but do you think that she feels differetly about you after you have logically explained things to her !! - Your logic is great and I get it but you are trying to address an emotion with logic and hence I this no no more than a quick fix. When she sees you doing it again she cannot help but think of you in the same way...
Does my friend feel differently after my explanation? Maybe, maybe not. We can't know. And it really doesn't matter either way; ultimately, we can't control how people feel. Plus, I'm not looking for a fix -- quick or otherwise. About a year ago, I stopped trying to convince people of anything. In my view, when we seek to sway another's opinion, we are setting up an antagonistic dynamic that naturally makes that person defensive -- and closed off to truly processing our words. And we're demonstrating a good measure of intellectual arrogance, because we enter the fray convinced that our opinion is more valid than the other person's. Nowadays, I listen much more attentively to others' thoughts. And, when it's my turn to speak, I simply present my ideas in a neutral way. They're just my ideas, and people are free to take them or leave them. I'm not looking to win anyone over to my side of the philosophical table. And you know what? I've found that I have a much better chance of having people actually hear and absorb what I'm saying when I express ideas without any accompanying agenda.

As for the first friend I mentioned, I'm pretty sure that the only reason she even raised her question is that she's a new acquaintance and hasn't spent much time with me yet. But she's a smart woman, and I'm certain she'll soon realize that I treat all the women I date, regardless of the duration of our intrigue, with tremendous respect. If, instead, she chooses to pigeonhole me, based on the limited data available to her so far, a heartbreaking flirt, and to write me off, well, so be it -- her loss.
Author:  samex [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:24 am ]
Post subject: 
Well, the best I can say Rafiel, is normally don't tell people about your good deeds. Unfortunately people enjoy other people being down, because it helps them feel better.

I would rather relate to the guys who are chodes. Explain to them the times you would get blown out or the time the girl rejected you.

Remember a real man always takes responsibility, so if YOU choose to hang around with chodes, then you have bring your self to their level(your always aloud to be a bit a ahead).


The best example I can give is say your playing basketball and you suck at it. Imagine having to go 1v1 against Michael Jordan. You would have no chance at all, and you would never get a chance to develop any of your basketball skills. But if you played someone slightly better then you, then your given the opportunity to put forth some of your skills.

Although its easy to brag, its nobler to hold back.
Author:  Marc [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:51 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
...... And it really doesn't matter either way; ultimately, we can't control how people feel. In my view.............is that she's a new acquaintance and hasn't spent much time with me yet. ...........
If it really didn't matter to you then why did you go through the drill of asking her all those questions and justifying your ACT, she is a new acquaintance right !! You could have told her, "thats the way I am take it or leave it"

Rather than being aloof of the fact that others are judging you why not drop subtle hints through your behaviour all along the way for them to have an opinion about you. Why not assist smart and intelligently and make it EASY for them.

I agree that seeking validation is a downward spiral but saying that others opinion don't matter AT ALL and you remain aloof is again self denial. Its like saying I lost the game, I am loosing all the time but thats fine because I know I am good.

Again, it goes BACK TO SOCIAL CALIBERATION and you have to know who your audiance is, what kind of a social event you are in and whats the DECORUM of the EVENT.
Author:  Ciornia [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
If it really didn't matter to you then why did you go through the drill of asking her all those questions and justifying your ACT, she is a new acquaintance right !! You could have told her, "thats the way I am take it or leave it"

Rather than being aloof of the fact that others are judging you why not drop subtle hints through your behaviour all along the way for them to have an opinion about you. Why not assist smart and intelligently and make it EASY for them.

I agree that seeking validation is a downward spiral but saying that others opinion don't matter AT ALL and you remain aloof is again self denial. Its like saying I lost the game, I am loosing all the time but thats fine because I know I am good.
Marc,

I have the impression that your interest in discussing these topics is genuine. Still, your responses to this post and to Fin's post on the ego make me wonder whether you're reading the threads attentively before composing your comments.

Your point drastically mischaracterizes what I wrote. I never stated that others' opinions don't matter "at all." If you go back and read my first reply, you'll notice that I was careful to specify precisely those cases in which I believe it's important not to care: "in situations in which [others'] negative perceptions of our behavior are rooted in their own limiting mindsets, petty jealousies, loaded agendas, or hypocritical pieties."

And your reply oversimplifies the ideas I presented by ignoring the possibility that one might hold, simultaneously, different layers of approach and attitude. Having a foundational attitude of not caring what others think in certain situations does not, in any way, exclude a coexistent approach on a different level; namely, having the patience and willingness, in some cases, to clarify your ideas -- and to do so without "justifying"; that is, without trying to prove you're right.

The fact is that my new friend had a gap in information. This was the first time she had seen me at a party, and she spent most of it off to the side, flirting with some guy. Whatever impression she had of my interactions with the women I talked to was based not on hearing the conversations herself but on observing from afar. Since her view of my actions was based on an information gap -- and since she's a cool person whom I could see as a long-term friend -- I was happy to clarify my perspective.

You, Marc, have an even greater gap in information; you don't know me, you don't know my friend, and you weren't at the party. But since your interest strikes me as sincere, I've been happy to try to explain my viewpoint. Perhaps it's clearer now, perhaps it's not. Fundamentally, though, I don't care what you think. See what I mean? :)

Peace, my man. Peace, my brothers.

Ciornia
Author:  Marc [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
...I have the impression that your interest in discussing these topics is genuine. Still, your responses to this post and to Fin's post on the ego


Ciornia, Fin knows exactly what I was doing to his ego post on that thread. There is more than what meets the eye in my response and he is quite experienced and intelligent to know whats going on so lets not bring him up.
Quote:
You, Marc, have an even greater gap in information; you don't know me, you don't know my friend, and you weren't at the party. But since your interest strikes me
One may say "You dont know me, you dont know my game, you dont know how I react etc etc." But in reality any people's person who has been around for long; after reading posts & replies has a good idea of how the poster would react and what his inner game.

You keep saying you don't care and everytime you are challenged the length of your reply keeps growing longer !- And who am I to you, just another poster on a pick up site ; So why so much time and the effort !!!

In Conclusion, what I'm saying that if you want to be perceived in a certain way drop enough hints through subtle communication that helps people to make that judgement. Also a Logical explanation doesnt help here.
Quote:
negative perceptions of our behavior are rooted ...., petty jealousies, loaded agendas, or hypocritical pieties
Now this is where all bets are off and you shouldn't care as much because there is nothing you could do for jealousy etc.. You could but not worth the time.
Author:  Ciornia [ Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Uh-huh.
Well, I'm just going to let my words and your words in this thread -- and Fin's words to you in his "Check Your Ego" thread, which I encourage you to go back and read, because your memory of them seems quite shaky -- speak for themselves.
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