PUA Forum :: Pick up underneath all the marketing message

Points 2 and 3 were really solid and I agree with them.

However I'd like to comment on point 1.

You started pick up with pimples, your game improved after you took effort of getting rid of them.

Thing is, you will never know it were your pimples or your mindset that were holding you back. Your perception probably tells you it's either one.

Not living with pimples is a huge relief as you won't have to care about "what could she be thinking about my pimples" which could have made got you more out of your own head.

'confirmation bias'. Maybe you're looking for something that proves your point about 'looks do matter'. I'm not accusing you of something, we all do it. Noticing hot women before ugly ones is (in a way) such a thing aswell. Your brain picks up what you're tuned in to.

The less you have to worry about, the better.

You either accept your situation as is (fully, no remorse, full comitment)
or
put effort in changing.

Author:	zhukaching [ Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Pick up underneath all the marketing message
The community is filled with marketing message. These message is created in the purpose of getting your money, but not actually helping you out. Some of these messages are very destructive to personal growth. And here are some of those message that I notice. Feel free to add more if you find something else. Wrong message 1 - Look doesn't matter This might be hard to accept but it does and we all know it: look DOES matter. Your physical body, your facial feature, your style of clothes... they all matters. I am not trying to discourage physically unattractive guy from doing pick up. I personally is 5'5 and had massive amount of pimples on my face before. I never really care about them when I first started picking up, I do believe firmly that look doesn't matter. Only when I start to make an effort to clear up all my pimples I see massive result change. My point is, look doesn't matter when you have tight game. Before you get to that point it will have a massive influence in it. Good news is, you can always change your style of clothes, you have certain amount of control in your physical body. So start working out, start eating healthy. Also, why make it hard for yourself when a simple teeth whitening can smoothen out your game a lot. (Someone else quote, forgotten whom) Wrong message 2 - There is a quick fix You see the testimonial they post on the website saying how much the bootcamp changed their life and how they feel confident as hell in approaching woman. Let me tell you these testimonials are not lie, they are real people who actually did the bootcamp and had some success. But I would seriously doubt them saying the same thing in 2 months time. In a bootcamp, you get all the social pressure from peers and coaches. You did the approach and realize you are invincible. You get k-close in the first night out. You are basically in the "impossible is nothing state". You did the testimonial right after the bootcamp saying how awesome it is and you feel like it changed your life. Are you sure you can still keep that hyper state for the next 1 month? They try to get this message in our head because we all love instant gratification. We don't like things to take too long to get. Imagine would you be eager go to a bootcamp that requires you to commit 1 day a week for the next two year even if they guarantee you with lasting change? or would you be more willing to go to a bootcamp that only take 3 days? My point here is, bootcamp is awesome for a realization session to break your limiting belief and actually realize you can do it. But if you don't have follow up action to back it up afterwards and take consistent step to keep these changes, you are going to fall back right where you started. I do believe doing bootcamps is an awesome way to improve your skill, but what is most important is to keep practicing what you learn to actually internalize it. This includes all those practical skills and mindset/belief. If you have been a AFC for the last 20 or more years in your life, you are not going to suddenly become a mPUA in 3 days. It takes time. Wrong message 3 - Pick up is life This might be harsh to some in here but I hope you can read the following paragraphs with a objective point of view. Companies try to imply to you from time to time that true happiness comes from picking up a hell lots of woman. So that you would want to buy their stuff so bad because it affects your life. I would accept that life without girls could be quite depressing, but girls are not all. I don't want to get into those life and happiness debate too much so I am going to just go straight to the bad effects of thinking "pick up is life". When pick up means life or death, every single failure can have the power to break you down. When you can't stand failure you stop taking action, this is when people don't improve. When pick up means life or death, you can't really have fun. If you don't have fun, you are less motivated and you are less eager to experiment on new ideas and improve. Would you care if you get killed in CS? This is how you master it, keep trying and dying. Would you care if you got beaten in Warcraft? This is when you see failure is nothing and you improve with the use of your experience. But if one day someone point a gun at your head and say if you got killed 5 times in CS he is going to shoot you. Would you be as willing to play? There are some other wrong messages I notice, but I don't think they have much of a bad impact so I am not going to spend too much time on it. - Warm approach is gay, there is no glory in it - You are tricking and fighting against girl - Pretending to be someone is the only way to pick up - Buying woman stuff is supplication and should be banned totally Feel free to discuss Zhu

Author:	Tom_"Maybe" [ Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Wrong message 1 - Look doesn't matter This might be hard to accept but it does and we all know it: look DOES matter. I read this and I stopped immediately. Look bro. I'm 316 pounds...and I don't have any beautiful qualities, other than my hair...that of which I get compliments all the time. But the fact is that a guy that looks like me who has somewhere around 250 numbers in my cellphone, with the large majority of them being women, and I have women all the time texting me asking me if I'd spend time with them, and I've gone a year and a couple months straight without a night where I've not at least had the option to have sex with one of them. I call that complete success in my eyes, and I'm sure many others will agree. So I'm not even going to waste my time reading the rest of this post. It's completely bogus, I can tell already.

Author:	Bormad [ Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:
I agree really I think a lot of the points you make aren't really assumptions in the PUA community. I would say that looks certainly help and even more so when you have some style , well groomed etc.

Author:	Jav [ Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:
Points 2 and 3 were really solid and I agree with them. However I'd like to comment on point 1. You started pick up with pimples, your game improved after you took effort of getting rid of them. Thing is, you will never know it were your pimples or your mindset that were holding you back. Your perception probably tells you it's either one. Not living with pimples is a huge relief as you won't have to care about "what could she be thinking about my pimples" which could have made got you more out of your own head. 'confirmation bias'. Maybe you're looking for something that proves your point about 'looks do matter'. I'm not accusing you of something, we all do it. Noticing hot women before ugly ones is (in a way) such a thing aswell. Your brain picks up what you're tuned in to. The less you have to worry about, the better. You either accept your situation as is (fully, no remorse, full comitment) or put effort in changing.

Author:	Tom_"Maybe" [ Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:46 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: You make really good posts and I no doubt believe that you describe yourself accurately. However, have you ever been 200 pounds? I took the time to read his entire post, and I do see a glimmer of sense. And I looked back at my post and realized how much of a jackass I must look when people read it. But the fact is that I never have weighed a reasonable weight my entire life. I've always been husky and I learned to adapt. Through my experiences and my conversations I've had with women I've come to the conclusion that, for the most part, women don't judge people in the same way men do. True, there are some girls that only go out with guys that have amazing bodies. But those girls are usually unattractive to begin with, and they have false images of themselves with their own bodies...so they're pretty much barking up trees they don't even belong in. It is also true that women, at first, see me as a lovable teddy-bear instead of a sexy beast. But once they get to know me all their views change and they find themselves saying, "I never imagined myself doing the things I do with you." And they tend to actually fall in love with me even harder than they would with an "average" looking guy. I built a fetish for them that they never even knew they had. So I stand by my word that looks mean NOTHING! If you've got pimples, OWN THEM PIMPLES, and if you've got an overbite, braces, come off as a geek, dweeb, or nerd OWN IT! If you're fat then fucking run with it, cause it all doesn't matter! People look for differences during the first date anyways...why not make your differences shine like a diamond for all to see, then shatter all their beliefs, labels and prejudices once they get to know you? Normal people will look past it all, and if they don't then they have social problems and are genuinely horrible people to meet regardless. That's what meeting new people is all about. Bottomline...if it matters to you then through your body language and through your means of communication it's going to vibe onto them and they'll begin to feel uncomfortable because of you....you get it?....not because of your pimples or weight....but because of you as a person. There has been several times where I've talked to a girl, and I can feel them slipping away from me, because they're self conscious about themselves. So what I do is talk about it right there on the spot. I ask, "What part of your body, or your personality are you unhappy about?" And usually I'll get an honest answer, because it's on they're mind already. I can tell this post is really unorganized and choppy, but I'm just real emotional about this subject cause it was a barrier in my life for a long time, and I fought through it and I hate seeing people not seeing a bright side to being different. Cause that's all it is in a woman's mind...you're different, not unattractive.

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Author:	Sykko [ Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:11 am ]
Post subject:
There is another message,not sent that much by marketing,more by people: You can get in and out of Pickup/the game. YOU CAN'T UNLEARN IT. Pickup is an art which you learn for life.Increased confidence,changed body language,voice tonality,good looks..it becomes a part of you.While talking to girls,sarging or not,you will recognize the IOIs,her shit tests,you will look around the room and cold read people from their body language.If at any step you can just quit "for some time" and return to old you,then you FAILED at PU. People are reborn in pickup.It is THE modern Renaissance art.Art of rebirth. Some people start rock climbing,some start playing football,some start DJing.They get fit,they dye their hair,they take care of their looks,and it becomes a routine.Most of them get a completely new social circle,and leave old friends behind because they don't approve of their new lifestyle or don't fit in it. When you do this the right way,a new persona will be born.A new you. PU is not about using/not using routines.It is about improving yourself,about being reborn as a new,more confident man.If you "get in",you won't be able to "get out".

Author:	jurupa [ Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:59 am ]
Post subject:
[quote="Tom_"Maybe""] Quote: You make really good posts and I no doubt believe that you describe yourself accurately. However, have you ever been 200 pounds? I took the time to read his entire post, and I do see a glimmer of sense. And I looked back at my post and realized how much of a jackass I must look when people read it. But the fact is that I never have weighed a reasonable weight my entire life. I've always been husky and I learned to adapt. Through my experiences and my conversations I've had with women I've come to the conclusion that, for the most part, women don't judge people in the same way men do. True, there are some girls that only go out with guys that have amazing bodies. But those girls are usually unattractive to begin with, and they have false images of themselves with their own bodies...so they're pretty much barking up trees they don't even belong in. It is also true that women, at first, see me as a lovable teddy-bear instead of a sexy beast. But once they get to know me all their views change and they find themselves saying, "I never imagined myself doing the things I do with you." And they tend to actually fall in love with me even harder than they would with an "average" looking guy. I built a fetish for them that they never even knew they had. So I stand by my word that looks mean NOTHING! If you've got pimples, OWN THEM PIMPLES, and if you've got an overbite, braces, come off as a geek, dweeb, or nerd OWN IT! If you're fat then fucking run with it, cause it all doesn't matter! People look for differences during the first date anyways...why not make your differences shine like a diamond for all to see, then shatter all their beliefs, labels and prejudices once they get to know you? Normal people will look past it all, and if they don't then they have social problems and are genuinely horrible people to meet regardless. That's what meeting new people is all about. Bottomline...if it matters to you then through your body language and through your means of communication it's going to vibe onto them and they'll begin to feel uncomfortable because of you....you get it?....not because of your pimples or weight....but because of you as a person. There has been several times where I've talked to a girl, and I can feel them slipping away from me, because they're self conscious about themselves. So what I do is talk about it right there on the spot. I ask, "What part of your body, or your personality are you unhappy about?" And usually I'll get an honest answer, because it's on they're mind already. I can tell this post is really unorganized and choppy, but I'm just real emotional about this subject cause it was a barrier in my life for a long time, and I fought through it and I hate seeing people not seeing a bright side to being different. Cause that's all it is in a woman's mind...you're different, not unattractive.[/quote]But the thing is looks DO matter as much as you don't think they don't. Looks just don't cover what you physically look like, but also cover what you are wearing as well as how you hold your self in public. You can be the hottest guy in the room but if you don't wear clothes that work in your favor nor hold your self well you are going to have a higher rejection rate no matter what. I am sure you have heard that first impressions are important, that is because how you look does matter. Is it everything? No. But it is certainly a plays apart.

Author:	zhukaching [ Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:57 am ]
Post subject:
Just to clarify my point about look: Look does matter, but it's not all of it. Let's see it this way: Look + Game + Money + Other random things = Score if score is bigger than 100 you get the girl. I know this analogy is stupid but bare with me for a second. Some people are born with good looks let's say its 70, and they have no game so they end up around 70 and don't get the girl. Some are extremely ugly and have 0 look, but their game is god and they have 200 points for it. They get the girl. Looks does matter, so is game. There is some "look factors" that can be changed easily, for instant style of clothe, all it cost is money but it instantly change your score. Of course other physical feature such as your weight or acne is a bit harder to change and takes longer time. Stuff like unorganized teeth might take only a surgery. Depends on what you want, if you just want result you might consider changing stuff that can be easily changed. Of course you still need game. But don't you think it's easier to take a SPAM with your face than to improve your game? Of course if you are just aspiring to have superb social skill you can ignore what I say. But of course, you can only improve your look so much but you can improve your game unlimitedly.

Author:	zhukaching [ Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Points 2 and 3 were really solid and I agree with them. However I'd like to comment on point 1. You started pick up with pimples, your game improved after you took effort of getting rid of them. Thing is, you will never know it were your pimples or your mindset that were holding you back. Your perception probably tells you it's either one. Not living with pimples is a huge relief as you won't have to care about "what could she be thinking about my pimples" which could have made got you more out of your own head. 'confirmation bias'. Maybe you're looking for something that proves your point about 'looks do matter'. I'm not accusing you of something, we all do it. Noticing hot women before ugly ones is (in a way) such a thing aswell. Your brain picks up what you're tuned in to. The less you have to worry about, the better. You either accept your situation as is (fully, no remorse, full comitment) or put effort in changing. True, I have to admit I did change my beliefs as well at the same time I start seeing huge improvement in my result. It is hard to tell what's the cause/effect and there will definitely be a certain extent of bias in my experience. One thing for sure, it will definitely not be a simple linear relationship between my result and pimples and beliefs. The fact that my pimple is cleared will sure have some help in changing my belief therefore leading to results. Not saying that look is all that matters. My point about look in this thread is that "look does matter, some factors with look can be changed easily" and "they try to tell you look doesn't matter at all because they want your money".

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