PUA Forum :: When your friends are the enemy...

Then later, when we were at another bar I was talking to a cute guy for a bit and they were off doing something else and then all of a sudden i get a pull on my arm to tell me they are leaving. I didn't get the chance to exchange numbers with the guy so now that opportunity is lost.

Rye I see your point, and there are times when I should be more selfish and look out for my well being. But there are also times when sticking up for what I want is not worth the argument between me and my friends. Not to say that it would be a big argument, but they would obviously hold a small grudge and the night would be awkward and it just isnt worth that.

Men and women just have a different foundation when it comes to this. Guys can piss each other off and most likely they will be over it the next day...women hold grudges for a longer time. Not to say they wouldnt talk to me...but it would subtely show up by them talking about something and not including me in the convo or whatever. You used the classic bathroom example. Women do most everything in groups...the reason why is because we have been social programmed that women should be in groups. Not just for safety, but for social validation. In an ideal world, your idea makes sense (that if they are good friends they will get over it)...but we all know this is no utopia here. Girls hold grudges and to preserve the peace of the group, you cant be selfish. At that moment...it wasn't worth the argument...I just wished they wouldn't have done that.

I’ve always wondered this about women who learn PU. Do you study it only to understand the social dynamics behind being picked up? Or do you actively use it on men, like we use it on women? Because I would think that, since men are wired psychologically different, that a lot of PU wouldn’t work in reverse. I don’t mean to offend you or anything, it just really intrigues me that women might be out there using openers and dhv-ing and stuff.

Quote:

We often say that women do this stuff naturally, so that just means there are more Naturals among the female population, but there's no reason they can't learn to do it just like men can. We're really not as different as you'd think at first. I've recently started teaching a few women privately and they've been able to apply what I've taught them just as successfully as a man would; perhaps even more effectively, as men are more repective and so they mostly just need fine tuning, rather than dramatic changes.

The reason I am intersted is because of the psychology behind it. Also, society tells us that men are to approach women, not the other way around. With this out-dated thought, women have to settle for the best guy out of the group of men that approach her. But what if there is a different guy that would have been better for her, but she didn't meet him bc he was too shy to approach? It isn't fair that women should settle so this helps women take control of their own love life.

Author:	Bonita [ Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:10 am ]
Post subject:	When your friends are the enemy...
Girl game is different because when you go out with your girls you dont always "plan" on talking to guys in the way that guys plan on talking to girls. But you basically just assume it. Well I went out with my two friends (girls) and when we got to the first bar they wanted to sit in the corner!! Now, granted, we sat by the window and got some attention from guys passing by...but not the same as guys that are actually IN the bar. A few groups sat at the tables near up later and we chatted with them...but it was so annoying that they picked a table far away from everyone when we could have picked one in the middle (I was out-numbered). Then later, when we were at another bar I was talking to a cute guy for a bit and they were off doing something else and then all of a sudden i get a pull on my arm to tell me they are leaving. I didn't get the chance to exchange numbers with the guy so now that opportunity is lost. Lastly, we were ready to head home almost and started to talk to 3 guys. I was talking to one (which i was pretty sure was a PUA and I was trying to find out for sure) when they just totally ruined it by acting drunk. Going out with your friends is good and bad. It offers social proof, entertainment, it attracts attention....BUT sometimes your friends are are you worst enemy.

Author:	Punkyfish [ Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:26 am ]
Post subject:
Strange to hear this from a girl's perspective but I've experienced similar stuff as a guy. Going out with friends who have never come across pick-up artistry. They stand holding their drinks to their chest and try to act "cool" in the most cringeworthy ways possible around girls, there's a certain worry that's always there that they're demolishing your social proof with every passing second just by association. And I feel bad saying this, they're great guys in other respects but it does making game very difficult if you choose to actively practice pick-up when you're with them. I suppose it should have been obvious but it never occured to me that girls might have this problem too. I have no solutions for your problem but hopefully you can make do with me empathising

Author:	Brenoporra [ Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:40 am ]
Post subject:
well... since I am in Brasil, nobody knows about pickup, worse than that, they think it's bullshit, so when I go out with friends, the time that I choose sarging I don't even have hopes that I can coun't on them for that... too bad for them but being a women in this case is probably worse

Author:	Bonita [ Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:56 am ]
Post subject:
yeah, these girls don't even know about pua and i don't plan on telling them. as girls, you would think that they know some of the basics just by being girls...but sadly they do not! i think if a guy is in this situation he has it a bit easier. a guy can just leave his group and pick up women alone, but if i told my friends that i am not going with them then they would be very mad at me. and we all know that women hold grudges for a while. so basically, telling them to go away is not an option.

Author:	Roads [ Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: When your friends are the enemy...
Quote: Then later, when we were at another bar I was talking to a cute guy for a bit and they were off doing something else and then all of a sudden i get a pull on my arm to tell me they are leaving. I didn't get the chance to exchange numbers with the guy so now that opportunity is lost. ARGH I hate that!!! Makes me wanna cockslap the friend across the face. Ok B here's the plan, we're gonna start a national "Don't Fuck With My One Night Stand" movement. The plan is simple, Girl: 1) Feels "tug of death" on arm. 2) Turn and tells friend to "Fuck Off". 3) Jump into cute guy's waiting arms. Guy: 1) Catch.

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Author:	Rye Lee [ Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:
I think the girl tugging her friend away is always broken, as she obviously isn't giving a shit about her friend's happiness in my opinion. The girl that allows herself to be pulled away is just as guilty of not looking out for her own happiness though. Sorry Bonita, but you could have easily told your friend to chill out, go to the bathroom, grab a beer, hit the dance floor, or something else in order to entertain herself for a few minutes until you had finalized things. When a girl is asked to come to the bathroom with her friends, 98% of the time she just goes along with it and you can see the dissappointment written all over her face. 2% of the time I look her in the eyes, raise my eyebrows a bit and give her a serious look and she gets the idea; tells her friends that she'll be there in a bit and stays with me; she ends up instantly smiling, laughing, having a good time and tells me that her friends are jerks for trying to pull her away. Why don't all girls do this? Same reason why all girls don't approach guys; they're pussies. Men are just as bad for allowing their friends to take them away. A guy will be on the verge of picking a girl up and then his friends come by and say, "Hey man, we're leaving, c'mon!" then just start walking away. What does he do? Shrugs, appologizes to the girl (sometimes it happens so quick he doesn't even do this) and follows after his friends. I've been guilty of this many times, so don't think that I'm trying to say I'm any better, but reading this thread has finally drilled it into my head how ludicrous this behaviour is. It's a socially accepted norm, but that's why we're here! We are fighting the norm, going against what's accepted and taking the bull by the horns! So next time this happens to you, realise that your friends most likely won't just ditch you, especially if they see that you are waiting a few minutes with someone that you are interested in, OR you can just clear them from your mind and stick around with your target, cause sometimes if you don't seal the deal that night, you never will. Your friends will forgive you when they realise what was going on and if they don't, then they're some selfish mother fuckers that don't care about your happiness.

Author:	Musterion [ Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:
Rye Lee you speak the truth mate. This happened to me last night and has happened before, friends fucking things up before they've even started (excuse my french). Whenever my friends do this usually I just go along with them and leave like an idiot, then realise what I just did and that I was an idiot. So what I've been doing recently is telling my mates before we go out "If you see me chatting with a girl, then unless there is a genuinely important reason why I should leave, don't inturrupt." As such the inturruptions have become less frequent.

Author:	Mr. Fickle [ Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:	so
Sooo, Bonita, tell me three things about yourself that I wouldn't know by lookin at you... hah sorry I had to. what would you guys suggest to do if her friends tug her away after you have number closed. I ask cuz I was chattin it up to this one girl, and another girl ran upto her and said hey we have to go right now, I have to be home in like two minutues. so i said "two mintues eh, no sense in going now late is late." then the bitch said back to me "no not really" *grabs girls arm I was talking to and pulls her off so im ganna text her tomorrow and see if I still stand a chance even though her friends obviously hate me. maybe i'll treat the sitituation like a flake and claim I met her twin. idk.

Author:	Bonita [ Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:
Rye I see your point, and there are times when I should be more selfish and look out for my well being. But there are also times when sticking up for what I want is not worth the argument between me and my friends. Not to say that it would be a big argument, but they would obviously hold a small grudge and the night would be awkward and it just isnt worth that. Men and women just have a different foundation when it comes to this. Guys can piss each other off and most likely they will be over it the next day...women hold grudges for a longer time. Not to say they wouldnt talk to me...but it would subtely show up by them talking about something and not including me in the convo or whatever. You used the classic bathroom example. Women do most everything in groups...the reason why is because we have been social programmed that women should be in groups. Not just for safety, but for social validation. In an ideal world, your idea makes sense (that if they are good friends they will get over it)...but we all know this is no utopia here. Girls hold grudges and to preserve the peace of the group, you cant be selfish. At that moment...it wasn't worth the argument...I just wished they wouldn't have done that.

Author:	Rye Lee [ Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Rye I see your point, and there are times when I should be more selfish and look out for my well being. But there are also times when sticking up for what I want is not worth the argument between me and my friends. Not to say that it would be a big argument, but they would obviously hold a small grudge and the night would be awkward and it just isnt worth that. Men and women just have a different foundation when it comes to this. Guys can piss each other off and most likely they will be over it the next day...women hold grudges for a longer time. Not to say they wouldnt talk to me...but it would subtely show up by them talking about something and not including me in the convo or whatever. You used the classic bathroom example. Women do most everything in groups...the reason why is because we have been social programmed that women should be in groups. Not just for safety, but for social validation. In an ideal world, your idea makes sense (that if they are good friends they will get over it)...but we all know this is no utopia here. Girls hold grudges and to preserve the peace of the group, you cant be selfish. At that moment...it wasn't worth the argument...I just wished they wouldn't have done that. In that case, do like Must has done and set the rules before hand. If they aren't willing to let you succeed in life, if they're gonna reign you in that hard that they won't even let you finish your conversation with someone before pulling you away, then they're pretty fucking rude and maybe you need to sit them down to have a chat, or re-evaluate the purpose of your friendships. I've been out with guys that have done this and they got all pissy when I stayed to finish talking to someone in order to make sure we would hook up again later; they didn't get the fact that I had just as much right to achieve my goals for the night as they did and that a few minutes isn't going to make the world explode, so I stopped going out with them. I've got REAL friends that when I'm in the middle of getting a girl that I'm attracted to, will grab another beer, or have a smoke, or just tell me that they'll meet me outside. Time to break your friends' social programming and let them see that you deserve to get yours too.

Author:	Kalel [ Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:43 am ]
Post subject:
I’ve always wondered this about women who learn PU. Do you study it only to understand the social dynamics behind being picked up? Or do you actively use it on men, like we use it on women? Because I would think that, since men are wired psychologically different, that a lot of PU wouldn’t work in reverse. I don’t mean to offend you or anything, it just really intrigues me that women might be out there using openers and dhv-ing and stuff.

Author:	Rye Lee [ Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:02 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: I’ve always wondered this about women who learn PU. Do you study it only to understand the social dynamics behind being picked up? Or do you actively use it on men, like we use it on women? Because I would think that, since men are wired psychologically different, that a lot of PU wouldn’t work in reverse. I don’t mean to offend you or anything, it just really intrigues me that women might be out there using openers and dhv-ing and stuff. We often say that women do this stuff naturally, so that just means there are more Naturals among the female population, but there's no reason they can't learn to do it just like men can. We're really not as different as you'd think at first. I've recently started teaching a few women privately and they've been able to apply what I've taught them just as successfully as a man would; perhaps even more effectively, as men are more repective and so they mostly just need fine tuning, rather than dramatic changes.

Author:	Bonita [ Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Quote: I’ve always wondered this about women who learn PU. Do you study it only to understand the social dynamics behind being picked up? Or do you actively use it on men, like we use it on women? Because I would think that, since men are wired psychologically different, that a lot of PU wouldn’t work in reverse. I don’t mean to offend you or anything, it just really intrigues me that women might be out there using openers and dhv-ing and stuff. We often say that women do this stuff naturally, so that just means there are more Naturals among the female population, but there's no reason they can't learn to do it just like men can. We're really not as different as you'd think at first. I've recently started teaching a few women privately and they've been able to apply what I've taught them just as successfully as a man would; perhaps even more effectively, as men are more repective and so they mostly just need fine tuning, rather than dramatic changes. Oh Kalel...you have no idea how well this works on men Rye is right. A lot of this stuff comes naturally to women. I basically used a lot of this stuff before I knew about pu, but now I just know the terms for things. Women don't have to use a lot of pu techniques like men do...actually some of them are counterprodictive. For instance, negging and not qualifying doesn't work too well. But push-pull works and kino is wonderful! But basically, women are more natural when it comes to pu (with some exceptions of course) but it is more fine tuning. The reason I am intersted is because of the psychology behind it. Also, society tells us that men are to approach women, not the other way around. With this out-dated thought, women have to settle for the best guy out of the group of men that approach her. But what if there is a different guy that would have been better for her, but she didn't meet him bc he was too shy to approach? It isn't fair that women should settle so this helps women take control of their own love life.

Author:	samex [ Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:28 am ]
Post subject:
Are your friends ugly? or dont get attention, I realize girls friends do that when their the ugly ones and they think for some reason their the shit because their hanigng around a HB. I got a piss off story when I was in cancun about this fat bitch who block two of girls(one I was supposed to bang) and it was the most annoyingest thing EVEr.

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Author:	jurupa [ Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:28 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: The reason I am intersted is because of the psychology behind it. Also, society tells us that men are to approach women, not the other way around. With this out-dated thought, women have to settle for the best guy out of the group of men that approach her. But what if there is a different guy that would have been better for her, but she didn't meet him bc he was too shy to approach? It isn't fair that women should settle so this helps women take control of their own love life. You do realize this more has to do with the Woman's Right Movement and feminism than PUA right?