PUA Forum :: It all starts with you. (on ego and giving value)

Question: What do you mean by giving value?

I'm guessing compliments, but i just want to clarify. Anyway if that's what you mean, i've always had such a hard time doing so because i would always be taken advantage of and have the sensation of "being under someone's thumb".

Even now a days...i feel that if i "give them value"(unless they are already a great friend, i'm talking more so about girls i've just met/girls i'm hooking up with)....it feels that once i do this...i'm raising their value and they will feel that now mine is lower. In the past i've always tried to be "sweet" and "sincere" but i feel that whenever that occured.....i would feel very weak in the relationship and feel at their mercy. Any thoughts on this?

Quote:

The natural flow of water within this ocean doesn't involve relying on others for validation.

Would you consider marketing something that could be very damaging to women, with the intentions of garnering fiscal success and critical acclaim, an attempt to receive validation? In this scenario, isn't money a quantifiable measure of validation one is looking to receive?

well hey man, interesting post about an interesting point of view..
but my question is, how do you go about this transition in urself..i mean what helped you, any books?

Author:	Chief [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:28 am ]
Post subject:	It all starts with you. (on ego and giving value)
Here's some heavy stuff. When I was in middle school, I was depressed. It was pretty bad. I thought nobody in the world could ever really care about me. In turn, I didn't give a damn about anyone, myself, the world, whatever. I saw life through a narrow pessimistic scope. I saw myself as worthless, useless, and also as a victim. I had no faith in humanity or its potential to love. I remember one time I was sitting at my desk, reaching for the nearest long sharp object I could grab hold of. It was a foot-long pair of scissors and I held the sharp end against my neck. Fuck writing a note or a last letter; I didn't give a shit. I was sitting in front of my computer because that's where I usually was. I was pretty withdrawn and not very social, which explains why I would just be in front of the computer a lot, but of course I had that secret desire to be able to have fun and be social with others, so I was logged onto AOL Instant Messenger. By sheer coincidence, right as I was about to escape by shoving those scissors through my throat, a window pops up. It's an Instant Message from one of my female friends, Emily. Emily was the type of girl who was just naturally happy and joyful, and she had the habit of doing something that pickup artists call "giving value," or just sharing the feeling of love and positivity with others. She just randomly IMed me with "I love you!" out of the blue. At the time I just thought it was a sign from God (I used to be Christian) that He wanted me to continue living, that He had some sort of plan for me, so I put the scissors down. As a Zen Buddhist and as a "pickup artist" now, I look back at that and see something else, something more. I had no faith in humanity. I didn't think anyone could genuinely care about other people. Emily, though, loved and cared about everyone in her life. She saw friends as family and strangers as friends. She would not hesitate to go out of her way for the sake of helping others. I see humanity as a whole very differently now. I know the potential for human beings to love each other, to live a life of compassion, mostly because I can now see that potential within myself. In my life's journey since that day with the scissors, I think I have become one of these kinds of people, or at least I am striving to become one. I think that's just beautiful. I think every pickup artist MUST develop this positive habit. RSD talks about giving value. As much as I hate to quote him, Mehow talks about giving value. Mark Redman, the relatively new guru on College Game who automatically subscribes you to a "Mastermind Program" by taking money from your bank account monthly without giving enough warning ahead of time when you buy his ebook, refers to it as "giving love." Plenty of pickup companies nowadays are catching on because the habit of giving value is an extraordinarily attractive trait. I think that the GENUINE habit of giving value is rooted in the feeling of compassion. I believe that all human beings are naturally compassionate. To have compassion for others, one must understand others. To understand others, one must understand himself. Some people have great difficulty in expressing their compassion because they allow themselves to be blinded by ego. Now, where did this ego come from? When a man isn't self-aware, he allows his ego to creep up to compensate for the metaphorical wounds he has suffered from early on in his life. This is practically unavoidable, unless the man has had a perfect childhood. We usually call those guys "Naturals," by the way. Not to say that ALL Natural pickup artists have been raised flawlessly, of course. The ego disallows us from accepting reality as it is, which in turn disallows us from taking the right actions toward positive change. For example, our ego tells us to stay in our comfort zone by telling us that we are "good enough," when in reality we want to IMPROVE. A man can let his ego tell him that doing cold approaches isn't his "style." A man can let his ego tell him that he doesn't need to read a book on pickup or relationships because he is above doing things like that. A man can let his ego tell him that he doesn't need to challenge himself by moving onto level 2 because he's already good at level 1. Ultimately, the ego makes us closed-minded. A man does have the ability, however, to muster enough self-control to tame his ego. Trust me, Buddhists do it all the time. It takes humility to hold an empty cup, but it's easy to have humility when you can admit to yourself that you are currently not the best man you could possibly be, but you are striving to become your best self. As my friend RedpoleQ once said, "A man isn't what you are. A man is what you become." Once someone lets go of ego, it becomes easy to practice non-resistance. I learned from RSD's Blueprint program that resistance is actually an emotion we feel. Once we accept reality for what it is by NOT letting ourselves feel resistance (come on, we're men so we can control our own emotions), we can allow ourselves to take the right actions to change our very reality. To me this is like an amazing 2-step program that can solve any problem. First, you accept yourself and reality. Then, you take right action to change yourself and reality. All of this leads to a greater sense of self-awareness, which leads to a greater sense of understanding, which leads to an unlocking of your naturally compassionate nature, which leads to an unlocking of your natural habit of giving love and value, which leads to attracting more people, coughwhich leads to you getting laidcough. All of this makes you a better person in the end, which allows for a greater opportunity in leaving everyone you interact with better than you found them. Imagine a world full of compassion and positive energy like that. Wow, right? And it all starts with you.

Author:	Gay [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:37 am ]
Post subject:
Very nice post. Helped me understand rapport alittle. but mainly it motivated me to buy the blueprint again, so I can actually finish watching it. Thanks Chief. (Edit: I fixed your post so you're following the rules lol -Chief)

Author:	Nogame [ Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:54 am ]
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Great post, Im going sound off on the first part of your post talking about your depression and such.This goes out to anyone pissed off and depressed, As bad as it probably is now, it will get better. Grade 10 and 11 were dark times for me. I would go out on friday nights with my nerdy friends and watch all these teenagers have fun, get laid. Chill with friends and such, I wanted that life so bad. I really found no way to change it, racked my mind trying to figure out what I could do to change it for the good. I eventually ran across the book "The Game" It was a whole new lease on life. Im in grade 12 now, I feel like Im 10 feet tall and bullet proof now. Its all based on this one kanye west quote "I use to feel invisible, Now I know im invincible" I did feel invisible in my first part of high school, now I know im invincible. Don't ever give up even when things look really shitty.It might get shittier in the future. But in the end the sun will shine for you and it will be glorious.

Author:	Chino Kapone [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:44 am ]
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Great post Chief. I think many guys miss these points when they first begin. I see it as putting value in yourself and what you can accomplish before you learn how to be a pua. CK

Author:	slyder2412 [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:
Chief awesome post....the ego is something i used to think about a lot but it had fallen out of my thoughts for a time being. Now i'm going to consider what true excuses i'm making only to protect my ego. Question: What do you mean by giving value? I'm guessing compliments, but i just want to clarify. Anyway if that's what you mean, i've always had such a hard time doing so because i would always be taken advantage of and have the sensation of "being under someone's thumb". Even now a days...i feel that if i "give them value"(unless they are already a great friend, i'm talking more so about girls i've just met/girls i'm hooking up with)....it feels that once i do this...i'm raising their value and they will feel that now mine is lower. In the past i've always tried to be "sweet" and "sincere" but i feel that whenever that occured.....i would feel very weak in the relationship and feel at their mercy. Any thoughts on this?

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Author:	Chief [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Question: What do you mean by giving value? I'm guessing compliments, but i just want to clarify. Anyway if that's what you mean, i've always had such a hard time doing so because i would always be taken advantage of and have the sensation of "being under someone's thumb". Even now a days...i feel that if i "give them value"(unless they are already a great friend, i'm talking more so about girls i've just met/girls i'm hooking up with)....it feels that once i do this...i'm raising their value and they will feel that now mine is lower. In the past i've always tried to be "sweet" and "sincere" but i feel that whenever that occured.....i would feel very weak in the relationship and feel at their mercy. Any thoughts on this? It's certainly not as simple as giving compliments. It's actually not that easy to simply switch from a habit of taking value to giving value. Allow me to dissect this concept further for you. If you feel that you are of a lower value than others, you are by default going to be taking value instead of giving value. Girls describe this behavior as "creepy," but it's not actually the specific ACTIONS or BEHAVIOR that's creepy - it's the vibe behind the action. Imagine a guy outside a woman's window with a guitar singing her a love song. This scenario could do one of two things: 1. Cause the woman to go into a trance that makes her panties melt. or 2. Cause the woman to call the police. An AFC gives compliments to women all the time, but so does a really attractive alpha PUA. It's not the compliment that defines whether or not he is giving or taking value, it's mostly a matter of how he perceives himself. If you truly believe that you are of high value and see everyone else as equals, you will, by default, be giving value. That romantic musician outside the woman's window could either be confident by seeing himself as high value and make the woman's panties melt, or he could see himself as low value, generating the feeling that HE NEEDS HER to validate himself, to give him value. The latter example is one where the man is taking value just because he sees himself as lower. Every individual human being has and equal infinite value. Once you realize that, you'll naturally give value, or "give love," to the world. It's just a matter of the energy you exert onto the rest of humanity. Why does every individual human being have an equal infinite value? That's because, in a way, deep inside, we all ALL THE SAME. It's the illusion of separation that causes us to believe in unequal values of human beings. So, picture two cups of water. One has more water and one has less. Let's say the cup with more water gives some water to the cup with less water. I think that's how you are seeing this "giving value" system, and you end up giving so much water to other cups that you end up with less water and therefore become lesser in value. Forget that picture completely. Look at this concept not as individual cups of water, but as an entire ocean. You are this ocean. I am this ocean. Every human being you interact is this ocean. We are all this same ocean. The natural flow of water within this ocean doesn't involve relying on others for validation. That doesn't even make sense. I hope that helped you get a better understanding on giving value.

Author:	SouthernSeducer [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:48 am ]
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GREAT ARTICLE! One of the more relevant ones to me that i've read here. Thanks for that

Author:	Bedrock [ Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:03 pm ]
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To me, Chief your second post helped me more. It gave me a better insight and understanding to what you meant. Thanks

Author:	DesertHighway [ Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:27 am ]
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Thank you Chief, you're slowly but surely changing my life through your posts Much appreciated!

Author:	Fin [ Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:28 am ]
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See this is where PU is going, recently I've seen some dark thoughts among the community, But I hold faith that their will be at least one person left to pull everyone out and reset the tracks. Chief I think what your speaking about works in the same way that sean messengers "tantric" excersise works. It's about a genuine love for others a genuine desire to give value, that reflects in your actions, your attitude and your general presence. Madals has touched on this aswell with "semi-oneitis". Emotion is what powers humanity, we have the choice to make that emotion positive, I think as human beings, as people in this world we HAVE to retain and nurture the compassion in humanity. Great post man!

Author:	Chief [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Quote: The natural flow of water within this ocean doesn't involve relying on others for validation. Would you consider marketing something that could be very damaging to women, with the intentions of garnering fiscal success and critical acclaim, an attempt to receive validation? In this scenario, isn't money a quantifiable measure of validation one is looking to receive? There's a difference between seeking validation and making a living in a controlled, responsible fashion, Hobbit. Don't hijack this thread plz (start a new thread, or, more appropriately, PM me if you wish to respond...or use my Ask thread if you REALLY want to keep my ego in check lol).

Author:	Youth Riot [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:32 pm ]
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Chief, your posts are awesome. You have answers to questions that I ponder about. I notice that I subconsciously don't value myself that much. To me, I'm always trying to impress people in general to get some sort of validation. That's probably why I've gotten the same results that I always gotten.

Author:	Cassian [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:47 pm ]
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Very inspiring and insightful

Author:	Rawbot [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:25 pm ]
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well hey man, interesting post about an interesting point of view.. but my question is, how do you go about this transition in urself..i mean what helped you, any books?

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Author:	Chief [ Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: well hey man, interesting post about an interesting point of view.. but my question is, how do you go about this transition in urself..i mean what helped you, any books? A combination of many things has helped me in my journey thus far: Taoism, Buddhism, teachings of insightful pickup gurus, really reflecting on personal experiences in field (I highly recommend writing detailed honest FRs and LRs and rereading them from time to time), and the passionate pursuit of growth and happiness. The thing that has helped the most by far, though, is really thinking about what it means to be a man. The primary spark that got me into natural game and made me start thinking about all this stuff was probably "The Zen of Meeting Women" by Max Weiss. Great book.