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Soc. Psych & PU: Overjustification & Intrinsic Motiv
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Author:  Chief [ Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:43 am ]
Post subject:  Soc. Psych & PU: Overjustification & Intrinsic Motiv
Social Psychology and Pickup: The Overjustification Effect and Intrinsic Motivation
Chief

Taken from an old folk tale:
Quote:
An old man lived alone on a street where boys played noisily every afternoon. The din annoyed him, so one day he called the boys to his door. He told them he loved the cheerful sound of the children's voices and promised them each 50 cents if they would return the next day. Next afternoon, the youngsters raced back and played more lustily than ever. The old man paid them and promised another reward the next day. Again they returned, whooping it up, and the man paid them; this time 25 cents. The following day they only got 15 cents, and the man explained that his meager resources were being exhausted. "Please, though, would you come to play for 10 cents tomorrow?" The disappointed boys told the man they would not be back. It wasn't worth the effort, they said, to play all afternoon at his house for only 10 cents.
There are many elements in psychology that can explain the behavioral responses of women to AFCs and PUAs. Social psychology offers the theory of the overjustification effect as one underlying reason as to why AFCs fail to elicit desired responses from women.

The overjustification effect - The result of bribing people to do what they already like doing; they may then see their actions as externally controlled rather than intrinsically appealing.

Intrinsic motivation - Motivation to do something out of genuine internal preference and liking.

From his study and development of Inner Game, a PUA comes to fully understand and believe, with every fiber of his being, that women love sex. The act of sex is intrinsically motivated within both men and women. The AFC, on the other hand, fails to truly recognize women's genuine liking of sex. Therefore, he, in a way, feels compelled to instill an external motivation within her to do the dirty with him.

In the mind of an AFC, women don't like sex. He comes to this conclusion through his faulty interpretation of social scripts.

Social scripts - Culturally provided mental instructions for how to act in various situations.

Women, from being sexually oppressed by a patriarchal society that has used sex as a competitive resource for too many generations, developed the social script of responding negatively to sexual topics when presented in public situations. Examples of this behavior can be seen whenever a woman responds to a sexual joke in disgust or when she says anything along the lines of, "I'm not a slut" and "I don't do that on the first date."

The AFC interprets the social script as "women don't like sex." Logically, if you want someone to do something that they don't like doing, you must compensate them with external rewards. The AFC takes this logical path and compensates women with external rewards such as drinks, dinners, gifts, and an overall attitude of supplication, during the process of courtship. In doing so, the AFC triggers the overjustification effect. When a person is rewarded with external factors to do something he or she already likes, he or she loses sight of his or her intrinsic motivation and justifies his or her actions as "I did it because I was paid to do so."

Proof of the reality of this effect can be observed in experiments by Edward Deci and Richard Ryan (1991, 1997) at the University of Rochester, by Mark Lepper and David Greene (1979) at Stanford, and by Ann Boggiano and her colleagues (1985, 1987) at the University of Colorado:
Quote:
Pay people for playing with puzzles, and they will later play with the puzzles less than those who play for no pay. Promise children a reward for doing what they intrinsically enjoy (for example, playing with Magic Markers), and you will turn their play into work.
It is implied that intrinsic motivation is an undeniably more powerful and consistent of a driving force in motivation than any mode of external compensation. In failing to recognize women's innate desire to have sex, the AFC forces his targets to replace her intrinsic motivations with his inconsistent, incongruent, and desperate offerings of resources.

Social Psychology, ninth edition, by David G. Myers:
Quote:
When people do something they enjoy, without reward or coercion, they attribute their behavior to their love of the activity. External rewards undermine intrinsic motivation by leading people to attribute their behavior to the incentive.
Myers also points out that "the overjustification effect occurs when someone offers an unnecessary reward beforehand in an obvious effort to control behavior."

Rosenfeld & others, 1980; Sansone, 1986:
Quote:
Rewards that seek to control people and lead them to believe it was the reward that caused their effort - 'I did it for the money' - diminish the intrinsic appeal of an enjoyable task.
In terms of pickup, this evidence is a clear explanation as to why women feel unappreciative toward AFCs who supplicate to them as a strategy of bedding her. The supplication makes the woman feel less intrinsic motivation, and therefore more jaded, bitchy, and less able to revel in the beauty of pure human desires.

Consciously armed with this knowledge of the overjustification effect, a PUA can keep himself in check to make sure that he isn't preemptively rewarding a woman with external factors such as IOIs and SOIs for following him in the progressive route toward the mutually pleasurable experience of sex. By acknowledging and reinforcing the woman's intrinsic motivation (not just for sex, but for all areas of life), the PUA can "leave her better than he found her," letting her fully enjoy an internal cultivation of her enthusiasm for life.
Author:  LoveMonkey [ Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
agreed sweet post!
Author:  Chief [ Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Wow, thanks for the high regards, guys!

I actually forgot all about my Attitude Innoculation thing :oops:
I've had a huge load of stress on my shoulders from school, actually, but I'll be getting on that pretty soon... or I may be writing something about some psychology studies done at Stanford I found that prove neg theory and push/pull before I do that.
Author:  Waffle [ Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
Totally cool post. It really is nice to know the details of why I failed for years. This was but one. Looking forward to the next batch.
Author:  cain25 [ Fri May 09, 2008 8:25 am ]
Post subject: 
AWESOME POST

I remember reading about it in university but as i read it now IT just filled some blanks in my understanding of the game. thanks man!! 1 reputation point from me
Author:  Rome0 [ Fri May 09, 2008 4:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
I love when you can back things up with scientific work. That was a great post. I wanted to pursue a psychology major before and now i think i am even more attracted to the idea. Has studying physcology helped you alot Chief? I can bet it has.
Author:  Chief [ Fri May 09, 2008 6:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Studying psychology really helped me understand everything more, especially pickup. The greater the understanding, the greater your potential. Knowledge is power. :wink:
Author:  x3dxFox [ Fri May 09, 2008 10:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
An old man lived alone on a street where boys played noisily every afternoon. The din annoyed him, so one day he called the boys to his door. He told them he loved the cheerful sound of the children's voices and promised them each 50 cents if they would return the next day. Next afternoon, the youngsters raced back and played more lustily than ever. The old man paid them and promised another reward the next day. Again they returned, whooping it up, and the man paid them; this time 25 cents. The following day they only got 15 cents, and the man explained that his meager resources were being exhausted. "Please, though, would you come to play for 10 cents tomorrow?" The disappointed boys told the man they would not be back. It wasn't worth the effort, they said, to play all afternoon at his house for only 10 cents.
dude, when I saw this I laughed my ass off...I use this all the time.

Respect.
Author:  Castnett [ Sat May 10, 2008 3:01 am ]
Post subject: 
Quality post, Chief. BTW, I love that old folk tale.
Author:  marquisdesade [ Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Excellent post, this is a mistake I've made a lot. Would be an even better post though, if you could give some practical examples of acting right and wrong, respectively, in this regard?
Author:  KCBaller [ Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm still a little new..... I understand women love sex more than men. But how do you reward intrinsic motivation?????

Also, part of my inner game is not stressing about getting laid. I've noticed if you C&F as well as have a "fuck it" attitude, then women crawl all over you. Half the time, I act as if I wouldn't have sex with the woman and that seems to make them want to ride you like seabiscuit. I went from having sex with 2 different women in my first month of PUA (I don't screw anything less than HB 8), to last week pulling 3 differents chicks in the sack.

One more question. What is a man's IOIs??????? Except for a boner lmao;)
Author:  Jav [ Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:24 am ]
Post subject: 
It was discussed today at my uni, goddamn chief, you stole my thread.



Nonetheless good thread, if not excellent.
Author:  Glowstick [ Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
very good post, love the correlations of social interaction and psychology
Author:  V1V [ Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
I take my hat off to you sir.
Author:  Johnny B. [ Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Soc. Psych & PU: Overjustification & Intrinsic M
Interesting post Chief, keep them coming!

[ Johnny B ]
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