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| The more you get into PUA the more ambiguous it becomes https://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=172953 |
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| Author: | DdOS [ Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The more you get into PUA the more ambiguous it becomes |
I like reading PUA materials, i like watching PUA videos and discuss with PUA on the forums, it became like a little hobby of mine, however it appears that general consensus on "dos" and "do nots" is rather ambiguous, literally i may say it was simpler when i only knew MM, there are some points that are universal like confidence, being high value, going out as much as you can etc. However there are also some points where every single PUA holds his own(often contradictory) belief, like for example looks, some will say looks don't matter and that the lookers are just having self esteem because everybody is telling them they look good, others will swear that looks do matter and believing you can pull a 10 while not being a looker is just a dream. Then there is a point of rapport, some PUA tells you you should lead the conversation, others say you should let the girl lead as you have higher value if she invests more. In fact if you take that PUA is made up of elements A,B,C,D and E, most PUA will say for example "A,D and E are way to success, B and C are BS" or "C and D are way to success, A,B and E are BS", in fact if you take out everything that some PUA swears is BS you end up with just self esteem and going out as much as you can, in other words be yourself and play numbers game, and PUA was created precisely to escape that type of mentality which was proving to be too constraining. So one might think that most of what we do here is BS and girls are just overlooking a lot of what we do because they find it cute how pathetic we are, and that is a dangerous mindset, in which i, by the way, do not believe. So i recommend that, instead of saying "this and this method is BS, you are just wasting time and money with it" you just say "i never had any success with that particular method" which does not have to mean it does not work, it just means you may not have been doing it well enough or it just does not suit your style. Also i heard a lot about "greedy guru's trying to sell you overblown stuff that is just hype" let me just say this, the day some "guru" manages to convince me to actually reach into my wallet and produce a few 100 or 1000 $ they ask for their program is the day will definitely open 4 ears at what he has to say because i am cheap as hell and if he can get me to produce some real cash then he can definitely teach me how to use the same method to make women produce, well whatever i want them to produce SPAM. our taughts? |
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| Author: | Bond-007 [ Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The more you get into PUA the more ambiguous it becomes |
Agreed. After some years you become hesitant about EVERY SINGLE choice you are about to make. It`s like: you`ve read it`s a good thing to apply here the straw men tech, but you also remember that some other dude said it wasn`t. I think this is no accident. There is deffinitevely a market towards this subject and some very important people try to protect it. What better way than giving contradictory advice? Perhaps a bit conspirationist, but my point of view and God knows there are fools out there who will buy. |
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| Author: | EademMutataResurgo [ Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The more you get into PUA the more ambiguous it becomes |
In terms of the superficial stuff like routines or pick-up lines anything can work. No one's really right or wrong about it. Women clearly don't know what the fuck they want so anything can work. The stuff that at the core of it that is right or wrong is the internal stuff that enables the superficial shit to work. So look for good advice on inner game and the basic philosophies inherent to being a high value man and then pick whatever style or technique you want to apply over that. When you love yourself without being egoic, are happy in your own skin, are willing to express your humour, passions and sexuality without worrying what other people think then you can pull with anything from the lamest MM to the most direct '60' style |
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| Author: | 7000 [ Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The more you get into PUA the more ambiguous it becomes |
When people say a certain routine or method or whatever is bullshit, you should read it as "I think it is bullshit". Some people are rather over opinionated on here - no doubt because they're posting anonymously and/or are trying to prove their manliness or something like that - but what everyone says is just their opinion. I think a lot of what I read on here is indeed bullshit in so much as that if I tried it, I would fail miserably. So it is bullshit for me, not necessarily for everyone. But some other stuff I find useful, other people will think is bullshit for them. Everything is, to an extent, numbers game. I'm not sure that pick up necessarily tries to stop that, it just tries to better the odds. So if you could originally go out and get 1 girl in 100, you can now maybe go and get 1 girl in 30, maybe 1 girl in 5, whatever. If you try a routine, you might get phone numbers from it 50% of the time, blown off 45% of the time, and take 5% of girls home with you. That's still a numbers game, because you've still got to approach enough to get the girl home. You mention that pick up shouldn't be about being yourself and playing the numbers game. I would disagree with that premise. I would say that pick up is about improving yourself in order to make the numbers game work more in your favour. So the chat up lines and routines - they're there to help you as an opener, or as something to say if you run out of things to say, or as a hook if you are struggling with smooth transitioning or whatever. You mention leading a conversation - again, this is a matter of debate because some guys will prefer to play mysterious, brooding and quiet and get some success with it, others will be very loud and life of the party, and others will be somewhere in between. There is no one-size-fits-all policy. What you're trying to do is improve yourself. So everything you do should suit your personality. Sometimes, it's good to get out of your comfort zone slightly, but essentially, you don't want to be changing your entire personality to suit pick up theory. You want to be adapting pick up theory to you. That's why there is rarely unanimous agreement on here - we're all different people and different things work for each of us. You also mention stripping everything down and "removing the bullshit" - I think that stripping all of this down is, eventually, the best way to go. Routines should be something of a 'crutch', a support. What you're aiming for, is to be able to go up to girls and just naturally charm their pants off! If you're having to run routines, then yeah, fine, it will work sometimes, but the main goal (certainly in my book) is to get to the stage where you don't need to remember routines in your head to get good with women - you just are good with women naturally. Now, I'm not saying you should just go out and 'be yourself' from the start. If we did that, we'd never improve. You should read some of the theory/routines etc. on here and try them out. But what I'd personally recomment doing, is rather than looking at your results simply in a "pulled 5, rejected by 10" sort of way, actually analyse WHY that is so. So if a routine works for you, look deeper into why - is it because the routine involves touching girls in a certain way, or using a certain tone of voice or whatever? Then you make that become a part of your natural identity. If a routine works because it gets you touching early, then you start touching people early in an interaction all of the time - and eventually, you pat people on the back or shake their hand immediately as second nature. You don't even think about it. Then a few months down the line, you go up to a girl, you take her hand to say hi in a completely natural way, she's turned on, you're not having to remember shit routines or whatever. That's what you should be doing and aiming for, in my opinion! |
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| Author: | Tr@veler [ Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The more you get into PUA the more ambiguous it becomes |
Instead of looking at the technique used, look at the underlying principle. These people who say it works for them, they are CONGRUENT when they do it, they totally believe it. Find something you totally believe in and it will happen. BTW 60 Years of Challenge and The Attraction Code and Models by Mark Manson are the way to go. 
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| Author: | rakeal [ Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The more you get into PUA the more ambiguous it becomes |
Different women like different things. If you can choose the right method for each woman you are set. It's not as hard as you might think. The paris hilton, high up on a pedistle type chicks usually respond to MM. The shy girls who are smiling, and sending signals, direct is fine. The ones that are all around well balanced.... well you guys tell me cause I would like to know. Passing the shit tests is a good idea. |
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| Author: | HSP [ Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The more you get into PUA the more ambiguous it becomes |
Different styles work for different people. Someone can pull off a technique that may never work for yourself. Do not believe everything you hear even if people are just trying to help. If it sounds like it works try it. If it sounds like Bull-shit don't. If you are unsure of the results test them yourselves, because it is healthy to try new things. Be the best you can be. |
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| Author: | hugge [ Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The more you get into PUA the more ambiguous it becomes |
Why do you have so much focus on theories and methods? Go out and get your own experience, put two and two together and create your own method! What I have realized is that everyone has his own "method" with various "techniques", talking about things with his own terms, saying that other methods are just BS. But when you look closer you will see that all methods are just the same, with some slight variations. I have also noticed that concepts tend to overlap in their interpretation, like sets in set theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory). You are probably not a very analytical person, but if you are I would recommend you to try to analyze every technique you read about, and try to put it in a context of normal (non-PUA) behavior. "How does this technique relate to how normal people behave?". |
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