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"I am This, I am That"
https://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=134758		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  870 [ Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:45 pm ]
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I'm intrigued by this, but I'd like to see a study, rather than just the vague abstraction of "research," to validate the claim.

Gut instinct alone tells me that both things probably affect each other, rather than one necessarily being the more dominant factor in determining an individual's personality.

Your boy,
870
Author:  skills360 [ Tue May 01, 2012 3:04 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Kasabi always posts about this habit of posters to proclaim "I am this, I am that." I thought this was an interesting pairing. Maybe he's diagnosed the correct symptom, but misattributed the cause.

This would be correct if you talk in "context of pick up" with i you should be talking or getting the girl to talk about herself, this also applies to biz and social interactions, 2nd speed dating is for afcs(the study), 3rd kasabi(i like the dude) he is being bias, cause as everybody knows he does not like sexaddict, and he is taking it out of context... Now lets talk facts, the dudes contributes and has gotten people lay here and yes he knows his shit... Now when we say i am this or that, is not out of inferiority is on the context of game for example natural vs routine, or in the context of credibility, i slept with this many girls, listen to me i have the experience, i may know a thing or 2, is not i this or that( trying to impress, lying,qualify ourselves or dhv), actually i would love to see more people do a mini resume when posting, i have gotten into 3 page fights/discussions to find out i am arguing with a 17 year old that has been with max 3 girls in some cases... Here: let me quote sexaddict:

Quote:
The difference between you and I is I take people at their word until they give me a reason not to. You have been bias towards me since day one. I mean you just showed it by your comments of my "introductory thread. It's quite clear. Here's the thing though, I never once insulted you. In fact I have even complimented you in the past. There is no need to throw insults now at me. If you cant take constructive criticism then perhaps you are not the right person to be moderating others. I don't brag, I never have. You see it as a bold statement, I see it for what it is. The truth. If a man climbed every mountain on this planet, and told others about it, on a mountain climbing forum, would that be arrogance and ego?

If you knew anything about marketing, you would know a title is merely for the purpose of drawing attention and intrigue. Can you think of any better way I could of showed my experience to the community within a few words? Has anyone on this forum had almost 40,000 views and over 500 posts on their introduction post alone?

As far as ego's go, its the majority of you that have the ego's the forums so called "elite" You all have not even given me a chance, I was ridiculed since day one. I see people getting props by half of you, meanwhile they are saying points that I have already made ( but was ridiculed for) Should I have lied about my experience and lay count? Would that of been better? WTF! Should I have dulled it down? Am I the only one on this forum that loves women with an extreme overwhelming passion, am I the only one that is obsessed with the art of seduction? Is this a Pick up artist forum? It sure as hell doesn't seem like one.

You need to get into the real world, if you see me as arrogant you are blind.

I am not gonna change my personality to suit you, or anyone else. It took me a long time to become the man that I am, In the real world people fucking adore me. I take pride in my honesty, and respectability. I have never encountered this kind of shit in real life. If anyone should be pissed off it's me. For one I am much older then a majority of you, I have tried to remain respectable at all times even in the mouth of ridicule. The lack of respect is insulting.

The irony of it all is, wise men would try to learn from someone like me, or at least learn from my experience. ( especially the ones that are already some what successful) Instead what do the majority of you all do? YOU DOUBT, ridicule, and assume arrogance, assume I am lying, assume I am delusional.

IF this was a business forum or a sales forum and someone joined and said they had x number of sales, or 20 years experience and could back it up, a majority of the community would probably welcome them and try to utilize that individuals experience. Ego's would not be clouding everything. Not here! Anyone that feels they are somewhat accomplished doesn't want to hear a thing from a person like me. You've all read your books and field tested your theories and thats fucking great, good for you all. But tell me this, has any of you been around this game for 20 years??? I'll be the first to admit, at the pace a majority of the forum veterens are going, you all could easily best me in this game after 20 years.

I am not claiming to be the all mighty pick up master. I am not claiming to be anything but someone that has had a passion for seduction for 2 decades. AND YES I AM DAMN GOOD AT IT!!! call that arrogance if you like, I earned the fucking right to be proud, I put my time and effort in. I have even sacrificed a family life for my experience. I have paid the toll in many ways. Yet you dare call it egotistical. SHAME ON YOU KID!

You're welcome to have your own opinion of me. But don't assume to know who I am, and don't assume to know my character. I have always been polite to you Ezo even when you decided to be biased towards me. I have complimented you in the past. This is a FORUM THAT IS OPEN FOR DEBATE AND OPINIONS. You have you opinion of me and that's fine. I certainly have a new opinion of you.

If your only argument is the title of one of my threads. Then there is no point in debating anything here.

Lets leave it at that, I am not here to pick fights or be involved with negative energy. If I have insulted you, I can assure you that was not my intentions. I will be sure be more aware of your sensitive nature in the future.

Just know this, I am not like Stelar or anyone of the sort. I still have loads of info in me to share. And I will gladly do so. If you or any other moderators have any issues with me or anything I post, then by all means PM me.

One last thing to keep in mind, when you or anyone else is passing judgement. The majority of the community, even the long time dwellers at one time came here to better themselves, came here to get help, to learn pick up and the art of seduction. ME?? I CAME HERE TO HELP! Accept the difference, be wise and take advantage of me experience while you can. Put your ego's aside, I am not going to be around much longer.
_________________
Author:  kasabi [ Tue May 01, 2012 3:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: "I am This, I am That"
Hobbit,

Didn't you just write up a "Causation vs. Correlation" thread complete with a PPT picture chart?

Pennebaker's discovers that those who overuse "I" tend to have lower status. This is obvious. Leaders are busy with the tasks of all the "you's" in his group(s) and low level workers only need to deal with themselves. However, leaders don't use "you's" because they're in power positions. Leaders simply have used "you's" all their lives. They were always concerned with others. They were thinking about the group, its dynamics, and its progress. It is these habits that bring 'leaders' into leadership positions. ("Self Conscious" is his issue)

Pennebaker has confused cause with effect. His letter samples are interesting because in his enthusiasm over counting the "I's" and "you's", it seems he forgot to read the letters:

1. Regardless of their status level, most people will write many "I's" when asked to write a 'favor letter'. This is simply due to the popular usage of the English language: "I am asking" . . . "I would like to invite you". . . "I would love it if " . . . ."If there is anything more I can do". . . "I am hoping."

2. Regardless of their status level, most people will write many "you's" when replying to 'favor letters' . . . again, simply due to the way we use language: "Thank you." "Nice to hear from you." . . .

Now here's when the rules change. Extremely low status, powerless people will almost always turn both 1 & 2 into "I Letters" whereas extremely high status, powerful people will turn both 1 & 2 into "You Letters". They might do this unconsciously, as Pennebaker assumes, but others will consciously and even painstakingly revise communications to a "you approach". Why? It's because they know that a 'you letter' is usually better received than a "me letter'. They know that a 'you letter' has a higher likelihood for compliance for whatever it is that they are trying to convey. They know that a 'you letter' tends to create deeper connections. The higher status that naturally comes from accomplishing these things well on a regular basis is if anything, an afterthought.

On the other hand the "I" people only care about status but fail to realize that their habits are counterproductive to what they are trying to achieve. Ironical . . .
Quote:
Well, should we manipulate how we speak to change perceptions?
Quote:
You can't, he believes, change who you are by changing your language; you can only change your language by changing who you are. He says that's what his research indicates.
My research tells me that I can write whatever the hell I want to write. I'm a decent writer and I can express my thoughts well. I am pretty persuasive and when I want to be, very convincing. Hell, I suppose I could write "I" messages all day long if I chose to . . . but I don't. Because if I did, I'd be a different "me".
Author:  kasabi [ Tue May 01, 2012 3:46 am ]
Post subject: 
Skills,

Don't you find it at all ironic to be copy/pasting another one if his 'I am this and I am that' posts in a thread titled "I am this. I am that."? Do you not understand that the post you just pasted is a poorly written attempt to describe this:

Image

*By the way, he is the most visible and stubborn poster child for high self esteemed, low ability, low self aware, low status person here so it's easy to point him out . . . but there are plenty of others. From a PU perspective, I am warming up to the idea that people like this can get laid once in a while . . . it's just that their cycles of delusions are plain miserable, even to witness only through their writing.
Author:  Monsignor Crisanto [ Tue May 01, 2012 4:40 am ]
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Quote:
I'm intrigued by this, but I'd like to see a study, rather than just the vague abstraction of "research," to validate the claim.
"L'état, c'est moi." - King Louis XIV of France

Pennebaker is an expert alright and a distinguished researcher on trauma, disclosure, and health.

Here's a sample Pennebaker article, http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage ... 201997.pdf

:twisted:
Author:  mi1ooo98 [ Tue May 01, 2012 6:27 am ]
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Interesting.

Is sharing this concept an attempt to try and govern who has the most status on the forums though? It seems a little like that...

Since our only communication is through writing, does that mean we have to establish a pecking order? Once again bringing ego into the equation.
Author:  7000 [ Tue May 01, 2012 7:59 am ]
Post subject: 
Whilst obviously this is about writing, surely it's not all about writing "you" or "I" more often. I think Kasabi hits the nail on the head with his post above - leaders tend to use you more often because of their mindset. It's not always necessarily a conscious decision to turn it into a "you" discussion, in fact it probably more often than not is an unconscious one.

"Leaders are busy with the tasks of all the "you's" in his group(s) and low level workers only need to deal with themselves. However, leaders don't use "you's" because they're in power positions. Leaders simply have used "you's" all their lives. They were always concerned with others. They were thinking about the group, its dynamics, and its progress. It is these habits that bring 'leaders' into leadership positions."

Great paragraph that can be adapted to so many walks of life and still rings true.
Author:  Dros [ Tue May 01, 2012 8:57 am ]
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I agree with kasabi in that true leaders always focus on other people rather than themselves. This simple concept could improve every aspect of our lives. Even in PUA, how many of us choose to learn some scripted lines, in order to fulfill our own desires, instead of actually focusing on the girl in front of us? It's almost like we don't actually care about the girl, her reaction, or what she wants... We're so focused on what we want, (getting laid or whatever), that sometimes we forget we're supposed to have fun and create a bond with another human being. Girls obviously notice this egoistical attitude.

I don't think Kasabi really meant this with his original post though. It seems to me that he wanted to encourage facts rather than words of self-praising - which don't mean anything after all.
Author:  skills360 [ Tue May 01, 2012 3:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Interesting.

Is sharing this concept an attempt to try and govern who has the most status on the forums though? It seems a little like that...

Since our only communication is through writing, does that mean we have to establish a pecking order? Once again bringing ego into the equation.

^ that is what i got too, it reminds me of facebook, when people post status to tell something to someone they know, indirectly, but everybody knows who they are talking about.... Nothing, and i mean nothing in this post adds value, when it comes to woman, but what do "I" know.. What about people that are envious or jealous, that for me is inferiority, usually leaders are not envious or jealous and they don't tend to criticize directly or indirectly, plus they ad value...
Author:  pumpington [ Tue May 01, 2012 8:51 pm ]
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good post, thank you
Author:  izumi [ Tue May 01, 2012 9:55 pm ]
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Basically he says that the more i use ``i`` ``me`` ,the more i try to qualify my self...
Author:  Monsignor Crisanto [ Tue May 01, 2012 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "I am This, I am That"
Quote:
Pennebaker's discovers that those who overuse "I" tend to have lower status. This is obvious. Leaders are busy with the tasks of all the "you's" in his group(s) and low level workers only need to deal with themselves. However, leaders don't use "you's" because they're in power positions. Leaders simply have used "you's" all their lives. They were always concerned with others. They were thinking about the group, its dynamics, and its progress. It is these habits that bring 'leaders' into leadership positions. ("Self Conscious" is his issue)
The trouble with this analysis is that it places leaders and followers in a black or white, good or evil, and/or heaven or hell dichotomy of society.

Leadership is actually a gradient of leading and following which contextually expands or contracts within a social shell layer or several layers of a social shell. This is the same reason why we have a pecking order.

For instance, in the military, privates follow their platoon leader. That's one social shell layer. Four to five platoon leaders follow a lieutenant. That's another social shell layer and so on in the military hierarchy.

Moreover, the social shell layer is not only a vertical exposition but is also a horizontal exposition. Catholic privates, lieutenants and captains will follow the leadership of a local priest for instance or the leadership of the town mayor in which they live in.

I also don't like kasabi's anti-SA911 stance. The guy is helpful and polite most of the time. Why hate him with his "approximately 800 laid thread"? One thread does not make the man. It's what he regularly does to help the small guy that makes him a good leader which also earns my respect. :twisted:
Author:  Slip n Slide [ Wed May 02, 2012 1:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: "I am This, I am That"
Quote:
The trouble with this analysis is that it places leaders and followers in a black or white, good or evil, and/or heaven or hell dichotomy of society.

Leadership is actually a gradient of leading and following which contextually expands or contracts within a social shell layer or several layers of a social shell. This is the same reason why we have a pecking order.
Agreed.

I could go through phases in a night, sometimes I'm on top of the world, and sometimes I feel like shit. Does my language change? Do I care?

The one thing I will take away here is that Leaders care about others.

I forget where I read this, but I was told that the right attitude is to care a lot about others, but not give a shit whether they care about you. I think that's good advice. Keep your arms open, be warm to everyone, and those who need comfort will flock to you by their own accord.
Author:  poeticlyskuac [ Wed May 02, 2012 8:13 am ]
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Fantastic thread. Too many people are far too narcissistic on this forum. They are all about the ego stroke.

The use of the word I is overrated. You is very important when you are managing, if you are sitting there saying "I would do it this way." You can come across negatively but if you say "You can do it that way but this way is easier." It comes across differently and frankly it looks far more diplomatic, people tend to listen far more often.

It seems like I read somewhere a long time ago there was a study done on people with psychological issues and it showed they have an abnormally high use of the word I compared to others. Kasabi can you help me out on this? Maybe I'm just thinking about people with a narcissistic personality disorder.
Author:  870 [ Wed May 02, 2012 12:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
The one sure result of this thread is that people will now pay extra attention to whether they are saying "I" or "you" more often in e-mails and conversations.

Just for fun, I went back through some old e-mails yesterday to see which I tended to use more often. Two in particular struck me because both involved asking for a favor from someone who could be perceived as more powerful than myself (potential interviewees). In one, I was asking an author for a press copy of his book; the other was requesting an interview with a fairly influential businessman.

In the e-mail to the author, I used the word me once, and in the other e-mail I never referred to myself, but asked if he would grant 'us' an interview, referring to my news organization collectively rather than individually.

Because I consider myself both self-centered and a narcissist, I expected to find lots of references to myself scattered throughout my various and sundry communications, but it turned out to be just the opposite. So I asked the missus, who has more experience than anyone with my selfish nature, how often I talk about myself versus talking about her.

Her answer? One of the most attractive things about me is that I'm supremely attentive to her despite my self-interest, and when she is upset with me it's typically because I haven't focused on her enough. Of course, this could easily be explained by mentioning that I see my self-interest as being irrevocably tied to hers since, as the old adage goes, if the mama's not happy, nobody's happy.

But it was still an interesting exercise. And since I was not making any special effort to refer to myself less in either of these cases, it would seem to lend credence to what Hobbit posted and the general theory that the language one uses reflects who they are.

We all know that, though. The question is, can you use language to change who you are?

Your boy,
870
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