PUA Forum :: The Illusion of Success

Quote:

As a follow up to the above, if you want to find a "method" that works it should contain all of the following:

- Screening out uninterested women quickly

- The importance of Physical Game over verbal game

- Provides information on improving your looks

- Stresses the importance of sexual escalation and being sexual

- Stresses that you should be shameless

- DOES NOT replace your personality but is instead open ended enough to allow you to blend it with your current personality

- Shows you how to play to your strengths and minimize your weaknesses

- Is gimmick free

- Does not make outrageous claims about you being able to fuck any girl you want

- Stresses the importance of having fun

The above is a good check list. If what your doing doesn't meet most/all those requirements its time for you to reconsider what your doing.

This is where I supposed to pitch you my "solve alll your problems" product.

I have none to pitch you, nor am I going to pitch anyone elses. Us ethe checklist above to find one suited to you.

There are plenty of methods out there that fulfill all or most of these checkpoints. However problems start to arise when these guys post "proof" of lays. The community says the girls are paid actors, hookers, or the guru only gets girls because he's super good looking. Some aspiring pick up artists will even refuse to accept the idea that pick-up is a numbers game. Then also add in the fact that PUA is a business at heart, and any method that fulfills this checklist also tries to sell you something else.

I'll tell you a few realistic methods I've come across, and some of theirs pros/cons.

Aaron Sleazy: Night game. All about only approaching girls that have already given you an IOI, and getting them from girls that have not noticed you yet. From there it's a steady sexual escalation and attempt at isolation to have a same night lay, or get a number from a girl that's sexually interested. Sleazy still tries to sell his method in an ebook, his proof of lays is only lay reports. The man himself is said to be tall and goodlooking, and has apparently beaten approach anxiety through years of zen meditation. Common referred to as an anti-community guy. Personally I've had success following his method, but I have not gotten SNL or bathroom pulls using it most likely because I haven't had the balls or logistics to attempt it yet.

GoodLookingLoser: Day and night game. Basically you approach women just to find out if they are sexually available. You do this through pick-up lines to weed out girls without a sense of humour. Then physical escalation to turn them on and also weed out the weird girls with an aversion to physical touch, or who aren't interested in you sexually or sexually available. In this method approach anxiety is beaten through exposure therapy, and the mindset that you are not being rejected, but rather screening numerous girls until you find one thats down to fuck. His proof comes from pictures and lay reports. He also has a video of himself from an old dating show winning over 3 girls, which is worth a watch. The community hasn't accepted his method because the dude is something like 6'3" 225 lbs, so they claim he only gets sluts and other "undesirables" like smashed girls, because he is good looking. He also controversially endorses a penis enhancement product, so guys wary of the internet rarely look at his method beyond that. His night game stuff is similar to Sleazy except it doesn't involve waiting for IOIs, and instead suggests actively seeking girls out. I've had successful nights using this method, but still bad logistics and not enough balls for bathroom pulls.

JustinWaynePUA: Day game focused on creating a "romantic" experience with girls that you approach, ideally getting an instadate, and settling for her number if not. This is done through kino escalation and verbal techniques that he refers to as his "levels of flirtation." His proof comes from lay reports and segmented videos of him chatting with girls on the street, and then later kissing and undressing them on his webcam. This is the best proof I've seen, but the community still claims the girls are hookers or escorts. He also makes claims that a majority of the girls tell him they have boyfriends in the initial meeting, yet he fucks them anyways. Critics also claim he is gay and has a speech impediment, but I believe thats just uncalled-for mudslinging. He doesnt have any products for sale at the moment, and instead operates as a coach in New York. Doesn't really cover stuff like approach anxiety. I'm still looking into this one. I've gotten numbers from daygame but always flakes, but I havent gone for a kiss in the initial meeting like he suggests.

Author:	Warped Mindless [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:	The Illusion of Success
Sense you have started PU, have yet achieved any success? If so, was that success do to learning PU theory? I asked a guy I know, Rob, those same questions five months after he started learning PU. Searching the internet he accidentally stumbled onto a book that included routines and theory about picking up women. He said the book first got his attention because "it had a Gothic looking clown on the cover." Rob had always had average social skills and had been average with women. He had never cold approached a woman in his life but had managed to get a few GFs from his social circle. His GFs ranged from slightly below average, to slightly above average but mostly average overall. Rob was just the average 22yo American male with average success and average looks. I ran into him five months after he had been practicing PU. I was curious as to what his success had been. I live about 70 miles away from him and haven't really been able to give him any coaching because of it. When he got the book with the "funny goth clown" on the cover I advised him against it. I told him there were better books on the market but he was drawn to that one due to the seemingly logical structure it gave and also because it gave the exact lines to say. It simply made sense to him. He bought me a beer and we started talking about his "success." I learned that Rob did do quite a bit better than most new guys do in five months but I attributed that to his previous social skill. Most guys who enter this community have extremely bad social skills to begin with, he didn't so his learning curve is shorter. Rob broke it down for me. In five months he went out four nights a week on average and approached anywhere from 8 - 20 girls a night on average. Over all he estimated that he approached anywhere from 800 - 1200 women all together and the large majority of the approaches had been night game in dance clubs, bars, the occasional lounge or two, and a concert. Overall he managed to get a lot of numbers, 23 dates and 7 lays. Thats better than a lot guys get after their first five months, specially when they practice the type of linear, scripted game he was. I looked at Rob and asked him a question: "Rob, to you contribute this success to the PU theory you read?" A smile beamed across his face, "Hell yes. I never had this kind of success before I read the PU theory." I nodded my head and asked him another question. "Rob, from what I know about you, I get the feeling that you were generally liked by the females in your social circle before you started learning PU, correct?" "Yes..." he replied wondering where I was going with this. He then added, "they liked me as a friend but I didn't appeal to them as a lover." I nodded again. "and Rob, would you say you ever creeped out the girls in your social circle?" Rob looked at for a second as if trying to think... "Not really. I was just kinda 'neutral' really. Not creepy, not a potential lover, just 'likable." I smiled and took a sip of my beer. "Rob, sense you have started learning PU and started cold approaching women, how many women have you creepd out? Rob had a puzzled look on his face but spoke up after only a moment of hesitation. "Umm, a lot to be honest. Most girls I approach reject me in a nice way. Some just blow me off, some hooks, and a good number get creeped out." He stopped talking but looked as if he had more to say. "Go on Rob" I motioned... Rob continued, "Well, it sometimes seems as if the women doesn't really care about me needing a female opinion. I mean, its like they don't get why a guy in a nightclub is interrupting them dancing to get an opinion on something random." I nodded in agreement. "Rob, what else do you do that creeps the girls out?" He didn't even have to think.... "Well man, more than a few times I was called on the lines I used. Told me they herd them before. I ended up making my own routines but even then I was called out for sounding inauthentic a few times. Also, women didn't really seem to care about the magic tricks I tried to do. I was good at them but they were basic and they probably seen them done before. Besides, I just felt like I was bothering them when I done that. They were busy dancing and chatting with their friends. I added no value except a lame magic trick. I cut that out." I thought back to the time I tried a magic trick in the club a long time ago. It was lame and the chick did her own disappearing act because of it. I couldn't help but laugh to myself a little bit at that memory. "Rob," I continued, "Would you say that you now acct more creepy than you did before?" He thought hard for a minute and looked up at me, "yes, I suppose you could say that. BUUUT, I'm having more success now than I was before." I nodded in agreement. "But Rob, how many woman did you approach before?" "None." He quickly answered. After another long gulp of beer, "So Rob, what your saying is, when you approached no women, you had no success. When you started approaching women, you started having success?" "...yes..." he softly answered, again not knowing where I was going with it. I continued, "You also became more creepy. Another question for you, I know you suck at basketball but if you went outside and show 20 free throws, how many would you make?" "A few because of dumb luck" he said. "Now what if you read a book that incorrectly taught you how to shoot free throws. Lets say it taught you to turn your back to the hoop, close your eyes, and wildly throw the ball without aiming to the hoop. Now lets say you did that method and threw 800 free throws. How many would you make?" I asked him. He sat up in his chair, the puzzle coming together for him. "More than I did when I shot the 20 free throws. But again, it would be due to dumb luck." "Exactly" I replied. "You were probably better at shooting free throws before you read the book. The reason you would had more success at free throws after you read the book is only because you took more shots." He beamed a smile, "so your saying that the more action I take, the more results I will get." "Yes." I leaned into him a little bit. "Now what if you read a book on free throws that taught you the right way to shoot? It teaches you to bend your knees when you shoot, the correct way to stand, the correct way to shoot. Then you go out and shoot 800 times, how many would you make?" "A lot more than anytime before" he said. We continued on our conversation into the evening and chugged some more beers. I got him to realize that what he read only made him worse. he thought he was getting better because he was sleeping with more women but the reality is that if he would have approached the same amount of women without learning the PU theory he did, he probably would have had more success. Rob eventually learned the right way to do things and went on to not be creepy and actually get very good at seduction. The point I'm stressing here is that no matter what method/style of "game" your practicing you need to take a hard look at it and figure out if its the reason your having success. No matter how bad socially you are, if you have by the time you have approached 800 women, you should have at least a 5% success rate if what your doing actually works at all. You don't even have to be doing it all that good to get a simple 5%. Take Rob for example, after 800 women he only slept with 7 of them. 5% of 800 is 40 women... much more than 7. Pretty much any "afc" without game can approach 800 women and get better than seven lays. Once again, look at what your doing and figure out if the reason your getting more success is due to your approaching more, or due to the method itself. I've ran into so many guys from the local lair here that went out and did the PU stuff they learned and only had a tiny amount of success. They they gave it up, went back to being normal and started having more success. Then some of them found stuff that actually works and played to their strengths and went out and had even more success.

Author:	Warped Mindless [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:
As a follow up to the above, if you want to find a "method" that works it should contain all of the following: - Screening out uninterested women quickly - The importance of Physical Game over verbal game - Provides information on improving your looks - Stresses the importance of sexual escalation and being sexual - Stresses that you should be shameless - DOES NOT replace your personality but is instead open ended enough to allow you to blend it with your current personality - Shows you how to play to your strengths and minimize your weaknesses - Is gimmick free - Does not make outrageous claims about you being able to fuck any girl you want - Stresses the importance of having fun The above is a good check list. If what your doing doesn't meet most/all those requirements its time for you to reconsider what your doing. This is where I supposed to pitch you my "solve alll your problems" product. I have none to pitch you, nor am I going to pitch anyone elses. Us ethe checklist above to find one suited to you.

Author:	P-Style [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:
Excellent essay. I can relate to what you say.

Author:	Warped Mindless [ Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:14 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Excellent essay. I can relate to what you say. Thanks and yes, I can too. I was a lot like Rob when I first started.

Author:	PurpleSmash [ Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: As a follow up to the above, if you want to find a "method" that works it should contain all of the following: - Screening out uninterested women quickly - The importance of Physical Game over verbal game - Provides information on improving your looks - Stresses the importance of sexual escalation and being sexual - Stresses that you should be shameless - DOES NOT replace your personality but is instead open ended enough to allow you to blend it with your current personality - Shows you how to play to your strengths and minimize your weaknesses - Is gimmick free - Does not make outrageous claims about you being able to fuck any girl you want - Stresses the importance of having fun The above is a good check list. If what your doing doesn't meet most/all those requirements its time for you to reconsider what your doing. This is where I supposed to pitch you my "solve alll your problems" product. I have none to pitch you, nor am I going to pitch anyone elses. Us ethe checklist above to find one suited to you. There are plenty of methods out there that fulfill all or most of these checkpoints. However problems start to arise when these guys post "proof" of lays. The community says the girls are paid actors, hookers, or the guru only gets girls because he's super good looking. Some aspiring pick up artists will even refuse to accept the idea that pick-up is a numbers game. Then also add in the fact that PUA is a business at heart, and any method that fulfills this checklist also tries to sell you something else. I'll tell you a few realistic methods I've come across, and some of theirs pros/cons. Aaron Sleazy: Night game. All about only approaching girls that have already given you an IOI, and getting them from girls that have not noticed you yet. From there it's a steady sexual escalation and attempt at isolation to have a same night lay, or get a number from a girl that's sexually interested. Sleazy still tries to sell his method in an ebook, his proof of lays is only lay reports. The man himself is said to be tall and goodlooking, and has apparently beaten approach anxiety through years of zen meditation. Common referred to as an anti-community guy. Personally I've had success following his method, but I have not gotten SNL or bathroom pulls using it most likely because I haven't had the balls or logistics to attempt it yet. GoodLookingLoser: Day and night game. Basically you approach women just to find out if they are sexually available. You do this through pick-up lines to weed out girls without a sense of humour. Then physical escalation to turn them on and also weed out the weird girls with an aversion to physical touch, or who aren't interested in you sexually or sexually available. In this method approach anxiety is beaten through exposure therapy, and the mindset that you are not being rejected, but rather screening numerous girls until you find one thats down to fuck. His proof comes from pictures and lay reports. He also has a video of himself from an old dating show winning over 3 girls, which is worth a watch. The community hasn't accepted his method because the dude is something like 6'3" 225 lbs, so they claim he only gets sluts and other "undesirables" like smashed girls, because he is good looking. He also controversially endorses a penis enhancement product, so guys wary of the internet rarely look at his method beyond that. His night game stuff is similar to Sleazy except it doesn't involve waiting for IOIs, and instead suggests actively seeking girls out. I've had successful nights using this method, but still bad logistics and not enough balls for bathroom pulls. JustinWaynePUA: Day game focused on creating a "romantic" experience with girls that you approach, ideally getting an instadate, and settling for her number if not. This is done through kino escalation and verbal techniques that he refers to as his "levels of flirtation." His proof comes from lay reports and segmented videos of him chatting with girls on the street, and then later kissing and undressing them on his webcam. This is the best proof I've seen, but the community still claims the girls are hookers or escorts. He also makes claims that a majority of the girls tell him they have boyfriends in the initial meeting, yet he fucks them anyways. Critics also claim he is gay and has a speech impediment, but I believe thats just uncalled-for mudslinging. He doesnt have any products for sale at the moment, and instead operates as a coach in New York. Doesn't really cover stuff like approach anxiety. I'm still looking into this one. I've gotten numbers from daygame but always flakes, but I havent gone for a kiss in the initial meeting like he suggests.

PUA Forum https://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/

The Illusion of Success https://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=129358	Page 1 of 1

Author:	skills360 [ Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Quote: As a follow up to the above, if you want to find a "method" that works it should contain all of the following: - Screening out uninterested women quickly - The importance of Physical Game over verbal game - Provides information on improving your looks - Stresses the importance of sexual escalation and being sexual - Stresses that you should be shameless - DOES NOT replace your personality but is instead open ended enough to allow you to blend it with your current personality - Shows you how to play to your strengths and minimize your weaknesses - Is gimmick free - Does not make outrageous claims about you being able to fuck any girl you want - Stresses the importance of having fun The above is a good check list. If what your doing doesn't meet most/all those requirements its time for you to reconsider what your doing. This is where I supposed to pitch you my "solve alll your problems" product. I have none to pitch you, nor am I going to pitch anyone elses. Us ethe checklist above to find one suited to you. There are plenty of methods out there that fulfill all or most of these checkpoints. However problems start to arise when these guys post "proof" of lays. The community says the girls are paid actors, hookers, or the guru only gets girls because he's super good looking. Some aspiring pick up artists will even refuse to accept the idea that pick-up is a numbers game. Then also add in the fact that PUA is a business at heart, and any method that fulfills this checklist also tries to sell you something else. I'll tell you a few realistic methods I've come across, and some of theirs pros/cons. Aaron Sleazy: Night game. All about only approaching girls that have already given you an IOI, and getting them from girls that have not noticed you yet. From there it's a steady sexual escalation and attempt at isolation to have a same night lay, or get a number from a girl that's sexually interested. Sleazy still tries to sell his method in an ebook, his proof of lays is only lay reports. The man himself is said to be tall and goodlooking, and has apparently beaten approach anxiety through years of zen meditation. Common referred to as an anti-community guy. Personally I've had success following his method, but I have not gotten SNL or bathroom pulls using it most likely because I haven't had the balls or logistics to attempt it yet. GoodLookingLoser: Day and night game. Basically you approach women just to find out if they are sexually available. You do this through pick-up lines to weed out girls without a sense of humour. Then physical escalation to turn them on and also weed out the weird girls with an aversion to physical touch, or who aren't interested in you sexually or sexually available. In this method approach anxiety is beaten through exposure therapy, and the mindset that you are not being rejected, but rather screening numerous girls until you find one thats down to fuck. His proof comes from pictures and lay reports. He also has a video of himself from an old dating show winning over 3 girls, which is worth a watch. The community hasn't accepted his method because the dude is something like 6'3" 225 lbs, so they claim he only gets sluts and other "undesirables" like smashed girls, because he is good looking. He also controversially endorses a penis enhancement product, so guys wary of the internet rarely look at his method beyond that. His night game stuff is similar to Sleazy except it doesn't involve waiting for IOIs, and instead suggests actively seeking girls out. I've had successful nights using this method, but still bad logistics and not enough balls for bathroom pulls. JustinWaynePUA: Day game focused on creating a "romantic" experience with girls that you approach, ideally getting an instadate, and settling for her number if not. This is done through kino escalation and verbal techniques that he refers to as his "levels of flirtation." His proof comes from lay reports and segmented videos of him chatting with girls on the street, and then later kissing and undressing them on his webcam. This is the best proof I've seen, but the community still claims the girls are hookers or escorts. He also makes claims that a majority of the girls tell him they have boyfriends in the initial meeting, yet he fucks them anyways. Critics also claim he is gay and has a speech impediment, but I believe thats just uncalled-for mudslinging. He doesnt have any products for sale at the moment, and instead operates as a coach in New York. Doesn't really cover stuff like approach anxiety. I'm still looking into this one. I've gotten numbers from daygame but always flakes, but I havent gone for a kiss in the initial meeting like he suggests. yep it sounds like aaron sleazy, it is very simple find a method or something that you feel comfortable with and you can relate, the idea of proof is hilarious at best what do they want a picture of the guru inside a vagina???... Make the game fit you and your personality, your style, not you fit the game... Finally, in a year in the community i have read about 10 books, to make sure my stuff is original, but Picking up women is pretty much the same shit, and yes a big part is a numbers game, screening, being efficient etc.. Finally, Even the bad stuff like mm, if there is one thing you can get out of it, then it was worth reading, for example with mm, and after i was successful with girls, i never really knew about the "shit test concept" ...I don't think you never stop learning, women are complex creatures, every time you think your figure them out, then you go like "damm" i never knew that...For example i never knew that the number one quality women look for in a man is "hygiene" props to Adam Lyons, but my point is you never stop learning, and there are dudes that think they know it all, i do not think you ever stop learning specially when it comes to women, my martial arts mestre has about 30 years experience he say i never stop learning, the same in biz, you never stop learning, if you are not growing you are dying... However the outline giving by Wrapped Mindless beyond excellent, i wish he could give some book recommendations, everything wm recommended so far and i have read right on the money...Ex: 60 yoc, attraction code, etc...

Author:	Defy [ Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:
Amazing article Mindless.

Author:	Jizza [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:32 am ]
Post subject:
not to sound like an asshole but that's the second time i have noticed you misspell "Since"

Author:	TygaNasty [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:55 am ]
Post subject:
This reminds me of the supplements and working out analogy. If you ever lifted, you may have taken supplements. I know when I first started seriously lifting I started off with supplements. Creatine, protein, and glutamine. (I recommend only protein in case if you are wondering) So I was starting out and after a few months, I was making some nice gains! Getting a lot more massive! I blamed it on the supplements rather than my hard work. If I didn't take any supplements, I probably would have had at least 80% of what I achieved with supplements. People need to credit themselves more than what method/supplements they are learning/taking.

Author:	A Silent Way [ Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:29 am ]
Post subject:
I think part of the problem is labelling the process of seduction as an "art"; mystifying it does nothing but stroke your own ego or makes money from it.

Author:	DJ_Z [ Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:08 am ]
Post subject:
Sparknotes version: never stop improving. Just like when you tell a guy he shouldn't stop gaming other girls cuz he went on one date with one chick, never assume you've reached your peak.

Author:	Warped Mindless [ Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:30 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Sparknotes version: never stop improving. Just like when you tell a guy he shouldn't stop gaming other girls cuz he went on one date with one chick, never assume you've reached your peak. Thats part of it. Also to figure out if your having success and what the real reason for that success is.

Page 1 of 1	All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/