PUA Forum :: LR: Our own little world

I also planted logistical seeds to ensure plausible deniability for taking her back to my place.

Quote:

I also planted logistical seeds to ensure plausible deniability for taking her back to my place.

Can you give examples?

Do you do this only in Korea or does it apply to every pick-up you do?

I try to never generalize a country by their culture and conclude that 'country x will grant me better chances with women than country y'. I could be wrong, but it seems like you'd be complicating things more by thinking along those lines and trying to adapt to a culture/generalized idea which may not even be true.

As per the teachings of Zan Perrion and Vin DiCarlo, along with many other PUAs, communicating that you don't kiss and tell is a very good idea. It removes a huge objection that women may have to sex, and this concept applies to every country, not just Korea. I don't know any culture where the average woman would be comfortable being called a slut.

Panda, seems to me you should attempt your style of game first, the level of directness with which you feel most comfortable, then see what kind of responses you get. If you're blown out over and over off your apocalypse opener, you should probably try toning it down and see what the new reactions are. Test the waters.

You misunderstand. The discretion part was irrelevant, my question/concern was rather about whether or not you should adapt to a culture you're just being introduced to, according to the stereotypical way women's mentality works. So for example, somebody visiting Korea might have heard that women are usually sexually repressed and therefore can't handle the kind of game the person in question is playing.

Is it now better for the person to attempt changing his game, just so he can adapt to this 'culture' which is just a stereotype - or should stereotypes like as such not be taken too much in consideration?

Because every time I talk to my friends about visiting a certain country, they all seem to have an already established image/stereotype of the women there.

"Oh dude, you should totally not go there. Women are so much harder to game in country X than they are in country Y . . ." - Which generally annoys me because it all sounds like bullshit and I don't believe you should adapt your game to a whole culture based on rumors/stereotypes, but rather the specific woman you're gaming.

I could be completely off, but it seems to make more sense that way.

Also keep in mind that actually believing in the wrong stereotypes will greatly hinder you like a limiting belief. You do, however, need to at least be aware of how the culture affects social scripts.

So... Yes.

Author:	Chief [ Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:	LR: Our own little world
I've resisted writing LRs lately for various reasons (one is laziness), but this is one I think I should share. Many guys often struggle to meet new women. They find themselves at a loss as to where they can find them besides bars and clubs. The truth is, though, that women are everywhere. As long as you're not being a pussy, it's hard NOT to meet new women. About a week ago, I joined the Buddhist club at my university. Now, when you ask anyone what kinds of groups you can join to meet women, they might tell you some shit like Yoga class or some Salsa dancing club or whatnot. No, you can find women everywhere. You name the venue; you'll likely find attractive women there. Since the club members were Buddhists, they were all really cool and kind to me, including this one dude I shall refer to as ThatOneDude. The club president, HBPresident, happened to be a cute girl in her sophomore year and, since she's a cute girl, I started flirting with her a bit. It was mostly just EC flirting but I sprinkled a couple SOIs in, too. I later learned that HBPresident and ThatOneDude were dating, so I backed off; pursuing HBPresident would have been rude when ThatOneDude had been nothing but cordial to me. After the meeting, we all started drinking together (haha). After drinking in the club room, I took a bunch of them to a bar. Of course, some tired people went home instead. After the bar, I took some of them to karaoke. Of course, some tired people went home instead. ThatOneDude and HBPresident both went home. Among the survivors was a cute girl - the only girl remaining - whom I shall refer to as HBDrinksMoreThanMe. I was quite impressed with her ability to keep up with the rest of us even while one of the dudes was passed out on the couch in the karaoke room. I started up some kino and eventually pulled some good overt hand kino when no one else was looking (plain English: I held her hand). After karaoke, there were four of us remaining and we all decided to walk home together, which was strange seeing as the other two guys lived in the opposite direction. Coincidentally, HBDrinksMoreThanMe and I actually lived very close to each other. I guess the other two guys were also attracted to HBDrinksMoreThanMe. She and I, however, already established an unspoken understanding of liking for each other, as evidenced by the discreet kino we shared earlier. The other two guys were justifying their actions as polite and gentlemanly, saying that they had nothing better to do anyway, while HBDrinksMoreThanMe was telling them things like "No, really, it's OK. You guys can go home." The other two guys, of course, didn't take the hint and I just watched without saying anything because the situation was pretty funny. One of the guys eventually gave up and started walking back in the opposite direction, and the other guy eventually took a bus. HBDrinksMoreThanMe and I were finally walking together alone. As soon as we ditched the last guy, we both exhaled a sigh of relief as she took my arm to walk arm-in-arm. So far, though I hadn't verbally expressed me wanting to keep things discreet, I demonstrated it by keeping things discreet from those other two guys, and by becoming a lot more open as soon as we lost them. I walked her home and gave her a kiss. The next day, whatever plans I happened to have got pushed or canceled. So, I asked HBDrinksMoreThanMe out for dinner and she was cool with that. We had Pho. I totally forgot what our dinner conversation was like. Some boring shit, probably. After dinner, we decide to go to a Korean-style drinking place with rice wine and some special food you're supposed to eat with rice wine when it's raining. Oh, by the way, it was raining. Not that it really matters. We didn't share the same umbrella (most of the time) since we were too close to campus and people may have seen us. We were intentionally trying to avoid people we may know. However, while we were at the rice wine place, someone else from the Buddhist club saw us and said hello. It would have been fine if it weren't for the fact that she had a shocked expression on her face and asked us (loosely translated), "What are you two!?" She looked pretty jealous to me. HBDrinksMoreThanMe answered weakly, "Oh, we just had dinner together..." I later talked to that girl (different day) and used my awesome social skills to make sure she didn't spread rumors or anything. Anyway, the rice wine place was where I reinforced the frame of being discreet with my explicit verbal "let's keep everything between us secret" line. Our discretion frame was so strong that it was like the two of us were from our own little world. I also planted logistical seeds to ensure plausible deniability for taking her back to my place. A difficult challenge when it comes to trying to seduce Korean women is that they oftentimes label themselves as sexually conservative. It's not easy to change that self-labeling but it is, of course, necessary for the purposes of seduction unless you want to marry a girl before you get to fuck her. In the case of HBDrinksMoreThanMe, it wasn't too difficult to change her mindset; all I really had to do was point out various pieces of evidence to prove that she wasn't conservative at all. For one, she stayed out with three other men all night long at the bar and karaoke the previous night. She's out on a date with a foreigner (me). She kissed that foreigner the same night they met. She's demonstrated that she's open-minded and such, meaning that she's not actually conservative. As I told her these things, it seemed as though she was really realizing for herself how liberal she was. I believe that having a strong discretion frame allowed her to do so many non-conservative things without fear of being judged by others, and thus allowed her to peel away her conservative label. A ton of other fun shit happened that don't really matter for the purposes of this LR, but let's just say she drank a hell of a lot more than me. I generally don't like to fuck on the first date, but we had really good chemistry and the strong discretion frame lifted our usual social/sexual inhibitions. I also learned something new from this experience. Generally, I follow a strict "No Virgins" rule. I learned that she was a virgin while we were already walking back to my place. Some people might think that girls, especially those in Korea, would lie and say that they are virgins even when they're not because Korean men are generally closed-minded sexually judgmental inexperienced pussyass douchebags. However, since I express a genuine dislike and aversion to virgins, girls tend to tell me the truth. HBDrinksMoreThanMe admitted to being a virgin in spite of my disappointment. Since we've been having such a fun time together, I decided to go for it anyway. I'm not really good at following rules. What I learned was that virgins won't necessarily get crazy and clingy if you take their virginity. I think it has more to do with emotional maturity and HBDrinksMoreThanMe was pretty emotionally mature. One might generalize and say that, since virgins as a whole are less experienced in life, they would be less emotionally mature. However, that won't be true for everyone. I guess I lucked out. Something else I noticed was that it was pretty obvious that HBDrinksMoreThanMe was experienced in giving blowjobs. So was HBTaboo, the only other girl I broke my "No Virgins" rule with, and she wasn't crazy/clingy, either. Both of these experiences have been positive. Perhaps how well a virgin gives a blowjob might be a good indicator of whether or not she'll get clingy if you fuck her. Makes sense to me.

Author:	Slip n Slide [ Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: LR: Our own little world
Quote: I also planted logistical seeds to ensure plausible deniability for taking her back to my place. Can you give examples?

Author:	Chief [ Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: LR: Our own little world
Quote: Quote: I also planted logistical seeds to ensure plausible deniability for taking her back to my place. Can you give examples? The classic move that people in college do is "hey let's go back to my place to watch a movie" lol It works pretty well. I got sick of doing the movie thing since everyone does it so I learned how to read Tarot and leave my Tarot deck at home. This time, however... I used a movie. The difference between a PUA and a regular dude, though, is that the PUA will plant seeds and the regular dude will just be like HEY LETS WATCH A MOVIE out of nowhere at the end of the night. I planted seeds by mentioning the specific movie, asked her if she's seen it, etc.

Author:	Little Panda [ Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:
I really like the 'discretion' part where you create a little fantasy world between the girl and you. I haven't really compared being discreet with the girl with not being discreet, as I've always enjoyed discretion and been doing it naturally. Of course, not because I knew what kind of effect it gave, but because I simply enjoyed the enhanced excitement and mystery that 'our world' created. But of course, it seems as if the girl is more willing to comply in these situations as well. Do you do this only in Korea or does it apply to every pick-up you do? I try to never generalize a country by their culture and conclude that 'country x will grant me better chances with women than country y'. I could be wrong, but it seems like you'd be complicating things more by thinking along those lines and trying to adapt to a culture/generalized idea which may not even be true.

Author:	Chief [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Do you do this only in Korea or does it apply to every pick-up you do? I try to never generalize a country by their culture and conclude that 'country x will grant me better chances with women than country y'. I could be wrong, but it seems like you'd be complicating things more by thinking along those lines and trying to adapt to a culture/generalized idea which may not even be true. It applies to every culture with a patriarchal system, which is essentially every culture in modern day. As per the teachings of Zan Perrion and Vin DiCarlo, along with many other PUAs, communicating that you don't kiss and tell is a very good idea. It removes a huge objection that women may have to sex, and this concept applies to every country, not just Korea. I don't know any culture where the average woman would be comfortable being called a slut.

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Author:	Little Panda [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: As per the teachings of Zan Perrion and Vin DiCarlo, along with many other PUAs, communicating that you don't kiss and tell is a very good idea. It removes a huge objection that women may have to sex, and this concept applies to every country, not just Korea. I don't know any culture where the average woman would be comfortable being called a slut. You misunderstand. The discretion part was irrelevant, my question/concern was rather about whether or not you should adapt to a culture you're just being introduced to, according to the stereotypical way women's mentality works. So for example, somebody visiting Korea might have heard that women are usually sexually repressed and therefore can't handle the kind of game the person in question is playing. Is it now better for the person to attempt changing his game, just so he can adapt to this 'culture' which is just a stereotype - or should stereotypes like as such not be taken too much in consideration? Because every time I talk to my friends about visiting a certain country, they all seem to have an already established image/stereotype of the women there. "Oh dude, you should totally not go there. Women are so much harder to game in country X than they are in country Y . . ." - Which generally annoys me because it all sounds like bullshit and I don't believe you should adapt your game to a whole culture based on rumors/stereotypes, but rather the specific woman you're gaming. I could be completely off, but it seems to make more sense that way.

Author:	Slip n Slide [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:
Panda, seems to me you should attempt your style of game first, the level of directness with which you feel most comfortable, then see what kind of responses you get. If you're blown out over and over off your apocalypse opener, you should probably try toning it down and see what the new reactions are. Test the waters.

Author:	Little Panda [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Panda, seems to me you should attempt your style of game first, the level of directness with which you feel most comfortable, then see what kind of responses you get. If you're blown out over and over off your apocalypse opener, you should probably try toning it down and see what the new reactions are. Test the waters. I haven't been traveling a lot since I got into pick-up and moved to a different country, but this definitely seems like a more favorable and logical choice.

Author:	Chief [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: You misunderstand. The discretion part was irrelevant, my question/concern was rather about whether or not you should adapt to a culture you're just being introduced to, according to the stereotypical way women's mentality works. So for example, somebody visiting Korea might have heard that women are usually sexually repressed and therefore can't handle the kind of game the person in question is playing. Is it now better for the person to attempt changing his game, just so he can adapt to this 'culture' which is just a stereotype - or should stereotypes like as such not be taken too much in consideration? Because every time I talk to my friends about visiting a certain country, they all seem to have an already established image/stereotype of the women there. "Oh dude, you should totally not go there. Women are so much harder to game in country X than they are in country Y . . ." - Which generally annoys me because it all sounds like bullshit and I don't believe you should adapt your game to a whole culture based on rumors/stereotypes, but rather the specific woman you're gaming. I could be completely off, but it seems to make more sense that way. When I first came to Korea, I ignored cultural differences and just thought "game is game no matter where you go." While that's true to an extent, ignoring cultural differences is foolish. I only got so far by trying to push forward with what I've always done. Korean girls already expected that I would be different from the Korean guys since I'm a foreigner, but I was still hitting some roadblocks. For example, I think that using the same indirect game I used in America resulted in a ton of more pointless lost time and effort, so I adapted by being more direct. If you want the best results, you have to adapt to your circumstances. With that said, however, I'd say that your friends are wrong to say that women are "harder" to game in a certain country compared to another country - the game is just different in some ways. The thing that frustrates me the most about women in Korea is that they're generally less sexually experienced and also generally more sexually conservative. That makes it more inconvenient for me when I'm trying to use some sexual framing and whatnot, but it still works as long as I approach it from a different angle. Sometimes, I still revert back to my default sexualization game here out of laziness and I feel like it's "harder" to game in Korea, but that's not necessarily true. Even the cultural difference of Korean women being generally less sexually experienced than American women can be a non-issue if you change up your game a little bit, and in some ways it can make seduction even easier (yet still more difficult if I just did what I usually did in America). For example, if I play up the frame that I'm safely "guiding" her and showing her this whole new world of perverse freedom within a nonjudgmental bubble, it works better than if I'd try it on a more experienced American girl. In America, more often than not I treated women like sexual equals who can keep up with me in bed. That frame isn't as relevant with the women I've met here in Korea, though. It's not so much the stereotypes you should concern yourself with, but the real cultural differences that PUAs in that country will tell you about. The average stereotype you hear around may be true or false when it comes down to it. Knowing which ones are true and which ones are false will also be very useful. Also keep in mind that actually believing in the wrong stereotypes will greatly hinder you like a limiting belief. You do, however, need to at least be aware of how the culture affects social scripts. So... Yes.

Author:	Little Panda [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Also keep in mind that actually believing in the wrong stereotypes will greatly hinder you like a limiting belief. You do, however, need to at least be aware of how the culture affects social scripts. So... Yes. I guess this was my general concern overall. I believed that if I started fully committing my mentality to these stereotypes, that it would risk turning into a limiting belief of some sort. But the way you're putting it makes so much more sense now. I guess the way I saw it wasn't entirely one-sided, just as the opinions of my friends was never one-sided. I'll take your words in consideration. Btw, check PM.

Author:	Clozer [ Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:08 am ]
Post subject:
Bustin' up virgins in Korea. Sounds like a special job! I like your line, "Let's keep everything between us a secret". Virgins generally don't make a good fuck if you're just going to tap it once. If you train them they can get good after a while. I have noticed here in Japan that Japanese girls really don't care about giving up their virginity. They don't associate any sin or "this is wrong" feelings with it. They sleep around pretty easily. It's just the culture and it's also a part of Buddhism.

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