Candid Review of AFC Adam's DC Bootcamp



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:41 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:10 pm
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I'm sorry, the email notification didn't seem to work after the post was moved, so I had no idea there were this many responses until I checked it just today.

I just wanted to drop in to have the opportunity to respond to some of the comments made on my post.

Most of this message will be aimed towards answering srikbe, and cygni's responses, because you guys said the most, even though your posts began to become redundant.

You guys are veering in the direction of personal attacks, but I’ll try to reply as calmly and civilly as possible; I don’t want this to become a forum flame-war and get deleted. You guys should really take a hint from Fame2Advancement, he thanked me for my feedback, offered a balanced view on how many bootcamps are, and didn't simply accuse me of "pissing and moaning."

You should also note that one of the reasons I was thanked was because there are so few reviews of ANY live bootcamp events.

First off, about who I am, srikbe, don't assume you know who I am, because you don't. I am not the guy from Chicago, ( think there were a few actually), even though I might really be a Chicago boy at heart. I didn't say anything about this at the bootcamp. I concealed my identity when posting, frankly, because I didn't know what to expect when I posted a review. You can even tell by the dates that I clearly waited a few days before deciding to even post it. It turns out that it was more or less okay I guess.

With regard to the point that I had a skeptical attitude and simply did not want to learn: look, I paid the $1,000 plus expenses of traveling and staying in DC obviously because I had an open-mind and wanted to get as much as I could out of this (I’m not rich either). To suggest that I just had this skeptical attitude the whole way through and didn’t want to have anything to do with the bootcamp is absolutely insane.

So you also understand that the thing about the comments about the Asian community, etc. didn't happen, (at least not with me) so we can put that to rest right here.

Someone mentioned that if I think I'm so good, why don't I just become an instructor. I do not want to become a pickup instructor. I’m an MBA student now. I’m interviewing for jobs now. Once your name is associated with something like this, you’ll never see a fortune 500 interview, much less a job, ever again, unless you want to be in this profession for life. All they have to do is Google your name.

No I did not expect girls to be literally pounding on my door begging for me to have them, just after finishing the bootcamp, even though the headline claimed that.

It just got me in the mood for the level of flash and amazement that I should be expecting, I mean jeez, I could’ve taken it literally, as it was intended, that’s what we call truth in advertising after all, but no, I wouldn’t hold them to that.

I just wanted to be blown away to that extent, but again, this didn’t happen.

Fame, the guy who got laid on night one explained in detail what happened; he said to the instructor in open-session "You didn't have anything to do with it." and the room burst out laughing. He just found himself seated next to this really drunk girl who wanted to just get with someone that night, and he just took it from there.

Srikbe. Adam doesn't demo out of respect for his wife? No shit! I'm not judging that; that's perfectly cool, it's just that after all the over-the-top pitches I got on the sales site, I was surprised to find that coincidentally, I couldn't see a demo from the guy whose name was on the bootcamps. Another poster here expressed disatisfaction with that idea as well.

Srikbe: Regarding my comments about Luke, you're not paying attention, he was very cool. We're talking about a guy who's been able to teach himself that it's okay to be really extroverted and do a ton of stuff with girls out there, that most people wouldn't even consider, and just get away with it. I was simply skeptical about the degree of change, but like you said, it can't be conclusively proven one way or the other; all we have to go on is their word, but I still think that the idea of a guy crying the first time he ever cold approached a girl, and then ending up this successful is a little over-the-top.

Jarret, if that's how you spell it, I found to just be a jerk and unhelpful. He would give me general negative criticism, and wouldn't tell me what I needed to do to fix those issues. He even downplayed some of my successes and didn't tell me what I could've done better. He couldn't do any better with the set he sent me to, the one that that blew me out, than I did. I couldn't get a demo out of him.

During a Day 2 lecture, Luke was talking about social circle game, and how to go into a new city and get to know the bouncers, bartenders, etc. and use them for connections to get into all kinds of places. This is all very cool, but do this plenty in my hometown now.

“God damn man!" Was one attendee's response; I mean that's cool, we're all coming from different experience levels, etc. but someone suggested this bootcamp maybe wasn't for beginners I GET THIS STUFF ALREADY.

*I went into this fairly experienced* and wanted to up my game, see real PUA demo’s, like I've read about, and see what could be done to maybe bring in those supposed unreachable girls who shoot everyone down.

After seeing that almost no one knew any of the standard PU community acronymns, over lunch, and during the lectures, I began to think that this might have actually been a more “beginner” style bootcamp.

About the social circle game, Bouncers I know let me walk past a line of people down the block, and just work me in the front door. I never get my ID checked, and I get hooked up with drinks on a constant basis.

The girl I'm dating ranks up there; different people would have their own opinions of course, but just take my word for it, I’m investing this much into writing this whole thing up, there’d be no point in lying.

I picked her up by using no material or technique whatsoever. I was out solo that night and she made a comment to me; I replied; and later learned that she became attracted to me because I was in my own world and didn’t seem to give a shit. I’m not that great looking of a guy either.

What I didn’t like was this course's insistence that there are specific things that you have to know to do in order for a 6 or a 7 to start reaching way out of his comfort zone. But a well known PUA Zealot on this forum, has said in one of my favorite threads something to the effect of “there’s no such things as…a 6 having good enough game to get a 9” etc. The course just seemed to put way too many labels on stuff that just didn't need to be labeled.

Everything is a different type of "game", there's "Stripper Game" "Phone Game", "Text Game" It's like you can just pick your random public place, add the word "Game" to the end, and you have a whole section of another course you can teach.

Insisting that the boundaries are rock-solid like this only proves to reinforce the hesitations some guys would have about their abilities.

The plants theory was something I was just throwing out there as a curious possibility, more of a joke I guess, I’m not gung-ho on proving it or anything; but I wouldn’t put it past companies to do this.

The 1-1 on one claim was made to me by a phone rep as well as by Adam on lecture day 1. The phone rep told me that NLP is a centerpiece to Adam’s game, and that there actually *is* canned material involed. (when I asked about the nature of the material I’ll be learning since the sales site claims no canned material)

About your bar/tipping comment, I mean go for it if you want. I was only able to really get in edgewise to a male bartender, every time, who was happy to charge me $5 per diet coke. I wasn’t about to tip him $5 for an ice water to get in his good graces.

The girls were generally standoffish, and bitchy, with the exception of later on in night 1. Again, I don’t know if you were on the patio on night 2, but the women were largely older, married, with guys, or just extremely antisocial and unfriendly. You say you prefer runway model quality, well so do I, but that wasn’t it.

"11) Alcohol vs. Red-bull? Pick your poison. If you don't like the rules of the camp then tough."

Who the fuck are you to just blatantly throw a rule out like that? That rule wasn’t told to me before signing up. What if I have severe social anxiety, and in order to loosen up to perform, when I’m out, it might be waaaay easier with just a couple of drinks, that’s it.

Regarding your claim about openers: “They DID give me openers whenever I asked for them, even elaborate ones.”

- No, I was refused openers, I was told simply "Go up to those girls. I don’t know what *are* you gonna say?”

About the kiss-close day two thing, no, I did raise my hand, that kiss-close goal that was set earlier in the day 2 lecture was also never mentioned again the rest of the night; I guess it was obvious from the venue on night 2 that it just wasn’t going to happen.

Look, it’s weeks past the fact now and I don’t want to beat a dead horse here, add insult to injury, or criticize anymore, I just wanted to reply to some responses to my post which I felt frankly, were just downright unfair and probably too personal.

I’m sure Adam’s a great guy and plenty genuine, I mean he seemed pretty nice to me, the few times we had a chance to speak. I'll be taking him up on his offer to contact him personally.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:48 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:57 am
Posts: 65
Chicagoboy,

Let us know how that works out please!

I think I'm on the same level as you and i want to take the bootcamp for the same reasons you did. Only I'm thinking of lovesystems.
However, my fear is that my experience will be the same as yours and that I won't be taught anything new and just waste my money.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:08 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:33 am
Posts: 34
It wouldn't be a problem if there wasn't so much money involved. These gurus need to understand that their prospective students are making a huge investment when they sign up for a seminar. If you're like me, you probably won't be able to afford more than one, which makes it even more risky.

I was seriously considering Adam's seminar in Miami, but this thread has given me doubts.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:10 pm
Posts: 4
Update: At the beginning of the week sent Adam a PM, then sent PUA Training an email about the refund, a few days later. I haven't heard back from either...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:39 pm 
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Master PUA

Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:04 pm
Posts: 444
Website: http://www.attractionexplained.com
Location: Everywhere!
Heya guys,

Just so that EVERYONE is aware of all the facts and where we are up to date.

Chicago boy messaged me privately on the 8th of this month, I've been in vegas but checked my email today where someone told me about his pm so managed to reply to him asap with confirmation to our office of his refund which will be given to him asap.

We stand by our products 100% so much that if someone doesn't get results they are happy with we will always give a full refund.

I do want to make some small replies to some accusation which are completely wrong however.

1) we do not use "plants of any kind" a) we can't afford to b) if we did wouldn't our instructors look absolutely amazing always? The fact is no game is ever perfect, but you can significantly increase the results you're currently having.

2) Of all the students on the course 25% got laid, and 50% got make outs. These are results we're incredibly proud of, and results I know our students were over the moon with as you can tell by their own replies. Some of them had done bootcamps with our competitors and valued ours as significantly better even though it was 25% of the cost.

3) Unfortunately Chicago boy didn't complete the entire bootcamp, which is always going to affect your infield time. There are 3 in field sections, and failure to complete all three is always going to limit your results. One of the other students only really had a breakthrough last minute on the sunday. When he did he managed to go on a date with a girl he'd only been speaking to for a few minutes and within the following week had sex for the first time in a very long time.

Chicago Boy, as I said I am upset you didn't manage to get the results you wanted. My offer to you of continued free training after the bootcamp until you got the results you wanted was genuine as of course is the refund which you've opted to take instead.

I wish you the very best, and hope you find the exactly what you're looking for.

Kind regards

Adam Lyons


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