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Conversation/observational skills suck. Any advice?
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Author:  Rag&BoneMan [ Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Conversation/observational skills suck. Any advice?
Yo, so problem's exactly what it sounds like. I'm great as coming across as fun initially. However, once I've passed any introductions everything fizzles fairly rapidly without external help.

I think its something to do with my inability to pick up spontaneous conversation with people. Part of my brain just says "hey dude! Talk about the weather! Bitches love the weather!" Obviously this is not a good idea... and things spiral down after this point.

Any pointers for a guy who really can't initiate conversation? For the record once the balls rolling I'm good at chipping in funny remarks. But I'm tired of having someone else be the centre of attention and it really limits who I can talk to.

R&B
Author:  Versalis [ Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Conversation/observational skills suck. Any advice?
Have you tried making the box?
Author:  Rag&BoneMan [ Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Conversation/observational skills suck. Any advice?
Making the box? Are you referring to styles box thing? If you are then yes, however, I found it a bit tedious and long winded. I'm also fairly certain the girl coined onto how it was rehearsed pretty quickly and lost interest. If this isn't what you're talking about please enlighten me :)

Should be noted that I'm 21 and talking to mostly university students. I don't see myself as a boring person (but have had issues with confidence as of late) and should talk about myself and what I get up to with regards to studies/sports/nights out pretty easily.
Author:  heat2 [ Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Conversation/observational skills suck. Any advice?
I've had this same exact problem..
I watched Vin Di Carlo's Conversation Cure and that took my conversational skills trough the roof :)
Author:  Versalis [ Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Conversation/observational skills suck. Any advice?
Quote:
Making the box? Are you referring to styles box thing?
It was an RSD joke. Rather than try to be interesting, they do retarded shit like talking about lizards and making air boxes with their hands.

I'd say the biggest issue if you have problems with being interesting, is brevity. You probably hurl out a string of facts in a dispassionate way and then you're out of stuff to say.
You want to learn to talk about fun and having fun. Worry less about facts and focus more on conveying SPAM and emotion. It sounds like vague advise and it is. But it's the sort of thing that will slowly sink in as you try to pay more attention to how you speak.
Author:  Pikeman85 [ Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Conversation/observational skills suck. Any advice?
Where can I find this Conversation Cure?
Author:  insanemadman1990 [ Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Conversation/observational skills suck. Any advice?
For 500dollars I hopeVin Di Carlo's Conversation Cure does work..... would never pay that.
Author:  heat2 [ Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Conversation/observational skills suck. Any advice?
I never gave a penny, I watched it at my friend's :)
Author:  Rag&BoneMan [ Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Conversation/observational skills suck. Any advice?
Quote:
Quote:
Making the box? Are you referring to styles box thing?
It was an RSD joke. Rather than try to be interesting, they do retarded shit like talking about lizards and making air boxes with their hands.

I'd say the biggest issue if you have problems with being interesting, is brevity. You probably hurl out a string of facts in a dispassionate way and then you're out of stuff to say.
You want to learn to talk about fun and having fun. Worry less about facts and focus more on conveying SPAM and emotion. It sounds like vague advise and it is. But it's the sort of thing that will slowly sink in as you try to pay more attention to how you speak.
Thanks I will definitely try and take this on board. As I mentioned a lot of the problem stems from confidence issues. What you've said regarding hurling facts is fair, I tend to end sentences with "so yeah..." as if hoping someone would pick up the thread but I've probably overloaded them with info.

Another issue that has become apparent is my ability to turn things towards the negatives. This is relatively true to my personality (I tend to be quite cynical) and is something I'll be looking to address.

For now I'm trying to work on ways to better develop my ability to engage people on an emotional level* and get something back from them when chatting. In hindsight me talking at people is most likely due to either a need to be heard when in a group of people or a need to fill the silence when one on one. I feel like I'm overcompensating quite a lot here.


*I'm sort of realising more and more what I write here makes me seem like a social recluse with no game. What I should mention is that I have had game a few years ago, I wasn't fantastic but still got by. A series of attempted relationships and a 6 month dry spell (recently broken :P) put me in a pretty low place, so here I am trying to work myself back up again.
Author:  Versalis [ Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Conversation/observational skills suck. Any advice?
I understand totally. That's my natural inclination as well. I love picking things apart in an attempt to find the most insurmountable concept. I love debating things and I tend to assume agreement so I'd always seek out differences. To me, it was interesting, but I eventually realized most people see disagreement as a form of attack. It's odd, as to me disagreement and diversity of opinion is ideal. But I have a much stronger individualist streak than most people.

It took a lot of effort to change how I communicate. First, I focused on eliminating negative talk as much as possible. Then focused on reading other people's vibe as we talk. As I got good with that, I finally started trying to learn to bring my energy up. Then I moved on to learning to communicate fun. The forth is the most difficult to explain. You're just looking to have a good time. You should be in a good mood and have elevated energy for most of the early interaction. If you feel the conversation going down, cut thread and start a random topic that you think you'll find amusing. Don't over think it. My segue is usually something like "Oh, hey! Have I told you about ______!?". Conversations don't have to flow perfectly(something else that took me a while to learn). Looking back on things, I'm kind of amazed I ever had any success with women when I was younger. I guess being tall covers a lot of other flaws :P
Author:  Gunwitch [ Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Conversation/observational skills suck. Any advice?
For my beginners students who watch a lot of tv (if they don't they probably play video games so they never leave the house to approach anyway lol) the quick fix is to follow a format of asking:

"so what's your favorite tv show?"

If they say one you don't watch just say "I haven't seen that, it good?" "what else do you watch?"

Once you hit on a common ground one, duh, talk about it. This will keep conversation flowing and build rapport, being you both know the same characters, places, events and shit.

Highly on the fly observational conversation skills don't come from knowledge, they come from relaxation. This is why so many use routines that stink until they can relax, then some use them forever anyway even once relaxed and never get good.

Anything to keep conversation flowing until you get relaxed in the game is all that matters. Eye contact is 5 times more important by itself. "Slowing down" and relaxation and KINO are also bigger. You do need to have the two of you speaking though of course, and that's all you need is a common tv show or movie you've both seen to accomplish that.

For more intermediate guys who can actually talk beyond an opener and relax, and I also use this myself, field tested over 100 times, I make fun of people in the place with her.

I start up like "hey look at that guys pants, oh my god they have something on them, I bet his name is Marcus D.......................Fudgepants" type stuff.

A. Great fun.
B. It sets an "us against them" frame in the backdrop you can use later.
C. Is 100% perfect rapport assumption, it is exactly what you and a friend from your past, her and a family member etc have done while in natural flowing rapport.

For intermediate levels the golden rule is anything to assume rapport.

Both of these are about 50% of my verbals even at an advanced level. The key isn't the base conversation tactics, it is what you transition them in to that makes the advanced game conversationally.


Gun

Learn from the guru of gurus at:
http://www.wayofgun.com
Get my free 18 page method.
Author:  puaninja [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Conversation/observational skills suck. Any advice?
Learn to talk the same way women and gay dudes do. That doesn't mean you need to sound effeminate, but rather your topics and the way you communicate should match that of women and gays. No weather, no sports, no religion, no violence, no controversial subjects. Talk about fashion, travel, relationships, and other female-oriented topics.

Versalis said it best. Use things like "Oh, hey! Have I told you about ______!?". When you kind of interupt yourself and sound excited about mentioning a new thing it really draws someone into your conversation.
Author:  Pikeman85 [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Conversation/observational skills suck. Any advice?
My problem is petering out. I guess I should concentrate more on relationships and emotions. And other types of stuff.

But even still, I seem to not do that well.

I'm really upset because I can open REALLY hot girls now, effectively, but I keep killing my chances because I just end the interaction because I think to myself "Oh, if I continue you're going to be less impressed!"
Author:  officialpoypoy [ Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Conversation/observational skills suck. Any advice?
i usually try to learn at least 5 things about them.

so just try to learn or ask things about them like their personality and apply it to you.

today I was just being very honest and I just said that today Im having troubles talking to girls lately and she replied back that it happens all the time and everybody has their good and bad days in their skills.

if you walked away without learning at least 5 things about her then you probably didnt connect or talk well.

I used to think that its about time and how to make conversations last longer but really its about the quality of the conversation that counts.
Author:  Swami [ Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Conversation/observational skills suck. Any advice?
Just start telling a story. You can make a story increasingly long by adding detail. It's like stalling. There's the one about the kid jumping on the manhole cover shouting 21. Every time he leaps, he shouts "21!" The trip is to set it up. Where is this? Describe the location. Ask her if she's ever been there. If yes, go off on a tangent about it with her. But now she wants you to get back to the story. Okay, what time of day and what is it like out? Cold? Is it cold out now too, like it is here? Talk about how cold it is. I stubbed my big toe the other day and because it's sooo cold I still feel the pain. Oh crap, I'm in the middle of this story. Well, does anyone want to know what happened to this fucker on the manhole cover? Great, let me recap. So I'm in Calcutta and oddly enough it's eerily empty and cold as a motherfucker. So I'm layered up in some merino wool at the market trying to buy some daal when I see this boy that looks like a gypsy jumping on this manhole cover. I think to myself "gypsy? better secure my fucking wallet THIS instant." So I get my wallet out, stash 100 rupees in my fucking socks just in case, and put the rest in my front pocket. This way, if it gets taken, I'll at least know it was a lady gypsy, get my drift? You ever been pick pocketed? How about had your handbag snatched? Where, around here or while traveling? That's got to be a shit show, what did you do?

So anyway, this gypsy boy on a cold day in Calcutta is jumping on this manhole cover and shouting 21 in English. I see this extremely annoying homeless man walking through the sparse crowd. I notice him because he's wearing a neon hoodie. I think... how utterly ridiculous! Have you ever seen a homeless person where neon clothing? I don't even think they did that shit in the '80's when neon clothing was sort of in. It's as if he wanted everyone to know he's homeless. What's the strangest thing you've ever seen a homeless person wear or not wear? I'll tell you about this one homeless man on the subway this one time. He looked like he was wearing an entire Goodwill. This guy wore every single thing he'd ever owned. It got me to wondering. If this fellow had a house, he'd probably be like one of those pack rats, I think we call them hoarders now. Ever seen that reality program about the hoarders on tv? Most people don't like watching that disgusting crap, no one I've spoken with, anyway, but I dig. But hey, I fucking love Cops too.

Anyway, back to this homeless guy on the subway. When I got on, his side of the car? Absolutely empty except for him. I don't have that strong a sense of smell, but I caught a whiff and I'll tell you what... there was no denying that something was long dead in the Goodwill. I'm surprised that there were any people on the other side of the car at all. I had to get off at the next stop and move to the next car. It was gross. I don't know how else to describe it, the smell is seared into my memory. I'll always associate that aroma with putrid Goodwill homeless people on a New York City subway. Do you know what I mean? What smell associations do you have? I mean, I've a couple of good ones, now that I think about it but what have you got for me?

Listen, I don't know where the time has gone. What's your phone number? I've just GOT to tell you about this gypsy fucker jumping on the manhole cover. In fact, you're too distracting in here with the other people and such let's go for a walk and I'll tell you the rest of this story. It's a good one. Like the time my friend hit a deer up in Maine while he was driving around trying to find a thrift store that sold betamax tape players.
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