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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:27 pm 
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The Grand Puba
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And that's the thing...you're giving her the agenda by telling her that you are just about fun without giving her the chance to decide for herself.
No. By "agenda-driven" I mean a woman who wants a relationship, kids, money, etc right from the start. These women are plentiful.

These are not emotionally-centered women.

I will always qualify women first, not the other way around.
Still doesn't change what I said. You telling a girl that you're about fun allows for her to eject before you show your value. That's not just you, that's any man. A woman that wants a relationship, kids, money, etc. will still want fun in her life until she finds otherwise. During that time, if you're worth it she will change her agenda to more match your agenda.

You shouldn't be fooled by thinking that you're the only person who gets to qualify. Women will qualify you as well. Neither the man nor woman has a choice in that matter. That's the whole process of getting to know each other.

I'm not sure how you come to judge women that know what they want in life as not being emotionally-centered. You should elaborate on that thought.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:35 pm 
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Wait wait...2 weeks? Yeah thats premature imo. Lol, Arch man you seem to not follow your own advice. 2 weeks is really quick and I dont know how you'd distinguish. How is 2 weeks, especially if you're an active man with other women, NOT extremely fast for a chick to decide or bring that up, even sneakily? I may be wrong or different, it just seems like you'd consider 2 weeks clingy.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:00 am 
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You telling a girl that you're about fun allows for her to eject before you show your value.
That's not a bother for me. There are others at my door. I set the frame, not the woman.
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That's not just you, that's any man. A woman that wants a relationship, kids, money, etc. will still want fun in her life until she finds otherwise. During that time, if you're worth it she will change her agenda to more match your agenda.

I don't operate on an "If I'm worth it" frame. I only operate on a "is she worth it" frame. This is what happens once you achieve abundance mentality.


And I've dated plenty of women who weren't fun, and who want a relationship and ask tons of interview questions on date two, who are clingy as hell. They get the boot.

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I'm not sure how you come to judge women that know what they want in life as not being emotionally-centered. You should elaborate on that thought.
This entire forum, and PUA in general is learning to control your emotions. You, R.C. and I have repeatedly given advice to men here on how to not want marriage and kids on the first and second date, and to not over-invest. That is a sign of an emotionally-uncentered person. Whether it's a woman or a man.


Truly mature, independent people will let something evolve organically at a healthy pace. They don't come in with agendas.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:01 am 
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Wait wait...2 weeks? Yeah thats premature imo. Lol, Arch man you seem to not follow your own advice. 2 weeks is really quick and I dont know how you'd distinguish. How is 2 weeks, especially if you're an active man with other women, NOT extremely fast for a chick to decide or bring that up, even sneakily? I may be wrong or different, it just seems like you'd consider 2 weeks clingy.
If I remember correctly, it was over a month, and there was a proven amazing connection (daily sex, spending way too much time holding each other, etc).

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:42 am 
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That's not a bother for me. There are others at my door. I set the frame, not the woman.
It may not be a bother for you, but that doesn't mean it's a smart thing to do. It may not bother you to call a guy with a gun an asshole, but it wouldn't be smart to do it.
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I don't operate on an "If I'm worth it" frame. I only operate on a "is she worth it" frame. This is what happens once you achieve abundance mentality.


And I've dated plenty of women who weren't fun, and who want a relationship and ask tons of interview questions on date two, who are clingy as hell. They get the boot.
Same as above. You're not giving the girl a chance to show that she's worth it because you a preemptively starting the disqualification process. I've dated girls that will put you through the ringer by asking tough questions. Tough questions don't normally matter once answered. A woman will still follow your lead if you have value. Regardless, the moment you give her a reason to disqualify you, you've let her decide if your worth her time even though you may already think she's worth your time. Your girlfriend did that to you even though she did it on a manipulative level.
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And I've dated plenty of women who weren't fun, and who want a relationship and ask tons of interview questions on date two, who are clingy as hell. They get the boot.
Questions shouldn't bother you. Incompatibility should bother you. Questions don't equate to not being fun. Questions are just a way for women to protect themselves. If you are comfortable with answers that you give women it wouldn't be a big deal. It also gives you an indication of what's important to them.
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This entire forum, and PUA in general is learning to control your emotions. You, R.C. and I have repeatedly given advice to men here on how to not want marriage and kids on the first and second date, and to not over-invest. That is a sign of an emotionally-uncentered person. Whether it's a woman or a man.


Truly mature, independent people will let something evolve organically at a healthy pace. They don't come in with agendas.
I'm not going to speak for R.C but you are confusing my message. I don't advocate controlling your emotions because that's not a healthy thing to do. I advocate not making bad decisions because of them.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:46 am 
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Wait wait...2 weeks? Yeah thats premature imo. Lol, Arch man you seem to not follow your own advice. 2 weeks is really quick and I dont know how you'd distinguish. How is 2 weeks, especially if you're an active man with other women, NOT extremely fast for a chick to decide or bring that up, even sneakily? I may be wrong or different, it just seems like you'd consider 2 weeks clingy.
If I remember correctly, it was over a month, and there was a proven amazing connection (daily sex, spending way too much time holding each other, etc).
My mistake. You said she asked if you guys are more than just sex and not fun. Basically, the same question by trying to validate her importance to you. It was just a little over two weeks and your response was to show her that she was more than sex. It was perfectly ok with you to have it strictly a sexual relationship with you until she indicated that she may be looking for more than that and that caused you to react. I'm not saying that your response to it is neither bad nor good. I'm just saying that all of this "me the catch" isn't really realistic. If you were the prize, you wouldn't have needed to change what you were doing. In your case you liked her and weren't willing to take the risk...even though she agreed to it just being about fun and pushed it to relationship after the fact.
Quote:
I dig this girl a lot. We've been seeing each other since January 1, about 3 times a week. Sometimes she spends the night, other times I hit up her place.

The other day I get the "are we more than sex?" text, so I surprise her with dinner out and she's very happy. Then she invites me over to her place for a movie and says "no sex" because her stomach hurts. Normally all we do is have crazy sex, so this day is the first no-sex hangout.

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Last edited by JackZero on Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:53 am 
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Wait wait...2 weeks? Yeah thats premature imo. Lol, Arch man you seem to not follow your own advice. 2 weeks is really quick and I dont know how you'd distinguish. How is 2 weeks, especially if you're an active man with other women, NOT extremely fast for a chick to decide or bring that up, even sneakily? I may be wrong or different, it just seems like you'd consider 2 weeks clingy.
If I remember correctly, it was over a month, and there was a proven amazing connection (daily sex, spending way too much time holding each other, etc).
Can you see how it sounds contrary to what you typically say though? I mean, I'd expect you to not see the same chick every day, I'd expect you to say that you should be seeing the other women, doing other things, that you shouldnt see one chick daily or even every other day. Its like I'd never expect you to say you're avoiding clingers, I'd more expect you to say 9's and 10's are ruthless, independent and will destroy you for niceness. I'd never expect you to say you have a problem with chicks wanting marriage on a 1st date, because "thats not how 9's and 10's operate."
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That's not a bother for me. There are others at my door. I set the frame, not the woman.
I'd think that a chick "sneakily" bringing up exclusivity is her setting the frame. Just as if I sneakily brought up to my boss that I should get a raise, and he gave me a raise...he didnt set the frame.
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Truly mature, independent people will let something evolve organically at a healthy pace. They don't come in with agendas.
But your gf didnt...she "sneakily" brought it up. Thats not organic.

This is not really for you to defend, just saying my thoughts. You have absolutes, but I dont think you afford others the same flexibility you allow yourself. Alot of guys could come with your same actions and you'd say they were making huge mistakes, yet its not that dogmatic. It's like if I saw N2 saying he played games with his gf, I'd have to ask how that aligns with his more compatibility/understanding/chill theme of advice. Or if MC was saying he got his gf from a weak, untrobbing cock while being out of shape.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:26 am 
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This is not really for you to defend, just saying my thoughts. You have absolutes, but I dont think you afford others the same flexibility you allow yourself. Alot of guys could come with your same actions and you'd say they were making huge mistakes, yet its not that dogmatic. It's like if I saw N2 saying he played games with his gf, I'd have to ask how that aligns with his more compatibility/understanding/chill theme of advice. Or if MC was saying he got his gf from a weak, untrobbing cock while being out of shape.
Arch, our back and forth with each other stem from this exact thought. Neo just explained it in a way that I have been failing to do no matter how hard I've tried. To me it isn't the sign of weakness in the way you go after women because regardless of the bravado you display to other guys, you got the girl that you wanted in an unspectacular, not feeling the need to be dominant, and a mildly insecure type of way. It was actually organic. The guy that's giving advice doesn't match the guy that got the girl. Which one do you think is more trustworthy?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:31 am 
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My mistake. You said she asked if you guys are more than just sex and not fun. Basically, the same question by trying to validate her importance to you. It was just a little over two weeks and your response was to show her that she was more than sex. It was perfectly ok with you to have it strictly a sexual relationship with you until she indicated that she may be looking for more than that and that caused you to react. I'm not saying that your response to it is neither bad nor good. I'm just saying that all of this "me the catch" isn't really realistic. If you were the prize, you wouldn't have needed to change what you were doing. In your case you liked her and weren't willing to take the risk...even though she agreed to it just being about fun and pushed it to relationship after the fact.
You're kind of creeping me out by going so deep into my love life, Jack, while failing to bring any personal details of your own into the discussion. You bring it up fairly often out of the blue. I get you may be too insecure or inexperienced to impart personal details, but you should at least make an effort.

Something to chew on.


It would be cool if you talked a bit about things on your end.

Quote:
I dig this girl a lot. We've been seeing each other since January 1, about 3 times a week. Sometimes she spends the night, other times I hit up her place.

The other day I get the "are we more than sex?" text, so I surprise her with dinner out and she's very happy. Then she invites me over to her place for a movie and says "no sex" because her stomach hurts. Normally all we do is have crazy sex, so this day is the first no-sex hangout.

Is this a valuable use of your time?

I'm going to kindly ask you to get off my ass, and stick to the OP's topic. Spend more time with women, and less digging through ancient posts.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:49 am 
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My mistake. You said she asked if you guys are more than just sex and not fun. Basically, the same question by trying to validate her importance to you. It was just a little over two weeks and your response was to show her that she was more than sex. It was perfectly ok with you to have it strictly a sexual relationship with you until she indicated that she may be looking for more than that and that caused you to react. I'm not saying that your response to it is neither bad nor good. I'm just saying that all of this "me the catch" isn't really realistic. If you were the prize, you wouldn't have needed to change what you were doing. In your case you liked her and weren't willing to take the risk...even though she agreed to it just being about fun and pushed it to relationship after the fact.
You're kind of creeping me out by going so deep into my love life, Jack, while failing to bring any personal details of your own into the discussion. You bring it up fairly often out of the blue. I get you may be too insecure or inexperienced to impart personal details, but you should at least make an effort.

Something to chew on.


It would be cool if you talked a bit about things on your end.

Quote:
I dig this girl a lot. We've been seeing each other since January 1, about 3 times a week. Sometimes she spends the night, other times I hit up her place.

The other day I get the "are we more than sex?" text, so I surprise her with dinner out and she's very happy. Then she invites me over to her place for a movie and says "no sex" because her stomach hurts. Normally all we do is have crazy sex, so this day is the first no-sex hangout.

Is this a valuable use of your time?

I'm going to kindly ask you to get off my ass, and stick to the OP's topic. Spend more time with women, and less digging through ancient posts.
You put the information here to be read, so don't let that bother you. I've posted a lot of information about my personal life on the forum. More than you have actually. But why would you be crying about that? Are you looking for something to make me look bad like you tried and failed with the pictures while making yourself look less credible?

To me, it is actually a very valuable use of my time. I like seeing different ways that guys are successful with women. No one hypes up their success as much as you. You've went as far to show pictures of a girl with my name in both pictures to promote your success and to paraphrase what you said: Sometimes you have to man up and prove yourself.

If you're going to tell someone why they're wrong and that person uses examples provided by you, don't you feel obligated to clear up any confusion? You drove the conversation here, so don't be mad if I remember the entire story of how you got your girl and can point out statements that look contradictory. Clear them up and move on. If you deflect, it just makes you look like you're not being honest and you deflect a lot.

LMAO...Ancient posts. You mean the posts that tells the story about how you got your current girlfriend? You don't think how you got your current girlfriend, the one you have as of today that you used as an example of how you get women, shouldn't be talked about when it comes to the consistency of your advice? No, I'm going to stay on your ass whenever you contradict yourself.

Arch, if you notice I wasn't being disrespectful towards you when I pointed out that you aren't being consistent. I didn't say anything out of line and actually went out of my way by saying that the way you went about things was better than the story that you tell now. Whatever blow to your ego that is causing, it's not my doing...it's your own documented telling of the story. You can try to attack my experience with women if you'd like, but that doesn't change a word that you've written to when it comes to the woman that you are supposedly with. Even if I were a fraud, as you wish I were, it doesn't change the story that you've told and now are revising. If you were honest you wouldn't have anyone say a word about you.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:03 am 
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Arch the overARCHING (couldn't resist) concern amongst the more reputable board members is the message you're promoting. Added to that the incongruence in what you say and what you do.

There is a bit of a dichotomy of people on this board from what I saw years back when I joined:

1) PUA die-hards, the ones who promote the macho, patriarchal views who espouse this idea that women are to be subjugated, tamed, and essentially led about (cave man caricature).

I'll call this type the 'Power-Over' camp. The guys that believe everything in a relationship is about power/one person jockeying for power over the other.

and

2) The other type, the 'Power-WIth' camp believe that vulnerability is an asset, a strength. This isn't the same as spilling their guts on the first date, it has NOTHING to do with poor boundaries. They do not share themselves with another to seek validation or gain sympathy. Rather they share themselves (over time as they build trust) to form deeper, more meaningful connections with another. They aren't consumed and overwrought with fear (unlike the Power-Overs) about whether the person will accept or reject them. That said, its not as though they wouldn't be completely disaffected if they are rejected; they just won't collapse, and figuratively die, change their ways, or lament the person they are because of another person's reaction to them. These people often intuitively will progressively share bits of themselves with a person as a way to see how responsive that person is to them. Think of it as a qualification of sorts. If you were to open up to a prospective partner and they were bothered by what you'd shared, and reacted upset then would you find fault in yourself, or see this person's reaction as a potential flag that they may not be responsive to you in the future? This isn't the same as finding fault in others, rather its a way to determine if someone would be a good fit or not.

The problem w the Power-Over guys is that they perpetually exist in a state of paranoia. They live in FEAR, as they are consumed with thoughts that the day they let their guard down is the day they get run over and their partner will leave. How do I know this? Personal experience, including the couples I work with who I can surmise quite early on have the lowest chance of repairing their relationships.

I'll go further in my hypotheses in that its my belief that MOST Power-Over guys are classic withdrawers in their relationships. Meaning they get overwhelmed easily, and are constantly employing techniques and strategies to keep the girl invested, whilst preventing themselves from getting TOO close.

For the Power-Overs the self-fulfilling belief is that when their relationships implode (which they do, more often than not), that it was the woman's fault, not theirs. Power-Overs unconsciously create an adversarial dynamic by default. There's never a cooperative air to their relationships.

I think what you're seeing is guys like Jackzero, RC, Neo is Power-With vs your Power-Over mindset. You wont gain any sympathy from them, myself included.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:34 am 
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The reason for my post is because I know of few guys like this. Always asking me for game tips, I help them land the chick, then they do this. They always end a relationship with "I don't know what I was thinking, I'm staying single for awhile"... A few weeks later, sometimes a month or two and they are back in a relationship. When I asked them about it they deny they only did it for the sex but what other reason could it be?


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