If you try to make plans and she can't, but doesn't throw out an alternative you should always drop it, right?

Yes.

If she says "I will check my diary and get back to you" then doesn't, or doesn't offer anything, then go cold and arrange dates with other women.

Women often do this if you haven't built up enough of a connection with them. Work on that aspect before going for the date, and you will likely have more success. Show a woman a reason to date you, a reason why it's worth dropping what they have already got on for you. Just asking for a date off the bat often results in rejection or flakes.

I'd say it depends...

Many new guys are poor communicators and dont understand who it works. For eg, a guy and girl text exchange may be:

Blah blah blah, whatever bs before the date "invite"

Him: I'm heading to X bar on Friday with friends, you're welcome to join.

Her: Sure great what time?

Time is set up, somewhere in between she cant make it. May be legit or not

Her: Sorry cant make Friday, have fun!

Now, here she's not giving you an alternative, but thats due to the nature of your "invite." You said you were going to a place and said she was welcome to join. Its not something she can offer an alternative for. Same way if your friends are going to a movie on a specific night ,invite you but you cant make it. What could you say? "Cant make it but lets watch the movie again X night"? No, you'd just say you cant make it. My point is, dont make things more difficult to understand by using wishy washy date "invites." Be clear that its a date in the first place. That way if she doesnt offer an alternative, you can make an inference.

A date invite should be a mutual thing....You two should want to hang out. She should want to meet you and at least show some signs of that before you suggest that. If it's a mutual desire to meet, she'll offer an alternative.

I wouldn't say the ask out offered above is the best. It doesn't explicitly state it will just be the two of you.

That's my point... Many guys will ask a chick to tag along to something so if she can't make it its not something she can offer an alternative

The ask-out above includes the guy's friends. It's weak.

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That was the point he was making and then reiterated that was the point he was making. The guy invited a girl for a specific event and it didn't allow for her to offer a different time because the event was going to happen with or without her. It's kind of like the invite when a guy says, "I'm celebrating good news at bar X at 9:00 and you're welcome to join." It's weak because it's a celebration event that will happen with or without her and it doesn't allow for her to give an alternative date.

I know this goes against a lot of advice out there, but a date is about her and you together. It's not about the event nor the venue, although those things can work in your favor when it comes to how she feels about you after the date. If she's interpreting otherwise, the chance of a counter offer decreases and the chance of flaking increases.

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Yes... Whether it's to tag along with friends or tag along while you celebrate good news at the bar.. They're weak invites that she Can't offer alternatives to if she can't make it.

The "I'm celebrating good news" is weak imo because it doesn't suggest it's a date. If you go with a girl in your social circle for instance you might get the dreaded "Who else is coming?" when you get there.

When I've asked girls out, sometimes a soft rejection will take the form of "I'm at bar X you're welcome to join". Unless the purpose is crystal clear, why bother?

Absolutely true.

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Yes it is. That's why I wanted to highlight it because many guys use those weak invites then when the girl doesn't offer alternative they move on when the invite was shit in the first place.

Slight highjack (Sorry!) but got curious. Would you never go to the bar anyway? I mean, sure it could be a rejection but it could genuinely be that she is with friends and doesn't just want to ditch them this night. I guess if you have other options, of course but otherwise its still a bar. It's not like you are stuck with her if she is a complete no no?

One example I remember pretty well was when I was asking a girl out I'd recently met through a mutual friend, here's the conversation as I remember it - it was face to face. This was when I was pretty usueless with women so the ask out wasn't the best.

ME: You want to hang out on Friday?
HER: No, I'm at Club X
ME: You want to hang out before Club X
HER: I'm predrinking with *insert mutual friends* if you want to come

PS: This was in college at the end of the year, so we'd finished exams and had no tests/classes so her Friday was completely free.

That's exactly right. You'll have fun with or without her. It's the opposite of weak....especially if your in-game was strong.

The point of mentioning the "celebrating good news" comment is it shows you are a calm, positive guy without the idiotic machinations and canned gamey-ness of the Youtube pickup coaches who can't shut up for five seconds. Who doesn't want to hang out with someone who focuses on the positive? That specific invite you quoted also makes it far more casual, which reduces pressure for her and awkwardness.

The invite says things, without saying them:

Guy: I really want to go out with you! Just us at Bar X, tomorrow!

Guy2: Hey, XXX. I'm celebrating good news at bar X at 9:00 and you're welcome to join.

Which one of those offers an air of indifference?


now, when you include "friends" into the ask-out, you're being a bitch. I've heard girls slam the hell out of guys who invite them out with their friends. That's weak, frat boy game.

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If a girl is into you, she won't care, unless you bring the frat.

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