Some Issues With Community Advise



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:51 pm 
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The problem with a lot of community advise is a similar problem we see in other industries or communities that I've been a part of. The issue is that a lot of what gets posted on here and other places is stuff being regurgitated is stuff people have read in a book, article, another post, or seen in a video. I will be the first one to raise my hand up right now and say I have done this a metric ass ton on this forum at times. The problem with this is that it is not first hand knowledge that a master coach could give you.

I am not going to advocate any particular coach out there and I have been out of the community for the most part for a while now. However there is a lot to be said from receiving advise from a person who has really put time into this and knows what they are talking about versus guys who are barely applying what they know.

Reference Here: https://www.blumercpas.com/blog/conscious-competence

In the article above there are 4 stages to learning. Unconscious Incompetence, Conscious Incompetence, Conscious Competence, and Unconscious Competence. At various times during my PUA quest I experienced all of these. I distinctly remember not trying to pick someone up one night I was just there to chill, and the next thing I know I'm standing with her at the valet stand going back home with her in her car. In my member journal in the PMZ for those that want to call bullshit.

For example of a similar industry with this problem. I was trying to learn to shoot a gun better. I've been shooting for years, I love it, and I wanted to get better. I would go to local schools and guys would say well your problem is you need to practice more you need to fire 10,000 rounds before you get better kind of thing. Others would tell me that I was shooting a touch left because I was slapping the trigger. Each coach I saw I got marginally better but fired a crap ton more bullets and spent more money. Finally I met this guy who is a master at what he does and he had the resume to back it up. When I tell you this guy is good I mean he is really good. Because of his mastery at it I shot 4 bullets and he had me shooting better than I ever thought I could. Granted he used video analysis but because of his mastery of it all I hit a 100 yard target with my handgun by the end of the day. He could break things down for me very simply and give me very powerful nuggets of information tailored for me and had me doing much better faster.

Like the gun industry this community is plagued by old information stemming down. Granted some things like don't point a gun at anything you don't intend to destroy stays the same since World War II but other things have changed. First hand advice from master coaches is far better than attending classes of retweeted information.

The truth is the more time you spend in the field, the more bullets you fire you do get better. BUT if you do it wrong 10,000 times then the 10,001 is going to be wrong also. You need a master coach to help show you how to do it correctly so you aren't just spinning your wheels.

Now the problem is we don't all walk around or have badges next to our name to tell you if a guy has put in 10,000 hours into PUA which is generally the amount of time it takes place for mastery of a skill. We also don't have badges showing percentages or who is really successful and who is full of it. I certainly didn't put that much time into it but I felt like I was far enough to really grasp things. Therefore the retweets of information dating back to before Mystery, David DeAngelo, and others is still spun. Is some of it good advise? Absolutely but some of it is old and doesn't completely apply.

When we start learning a new skill we tend to mimic people. Flattery is the sincerest compliment after all, so we start by regurgitating what we heard from the lastest youtube video or something we saw off a box dvd set from some mPUA. That is a part of learning. The downside is the person getting the advise has no idea if it is first hand or it is some bullshit crafted from a video.

There are some great people on this forum who do have a lot of hours in the field who have really honed their craft that can help people. And I think each of us have our own individual life experiences we can draw from to help each other as well and as a community is it awesome that we do that. Although there are a lot that have done what I did when I started out and that is just reposting some stuff. If you are out there on the forum and you want to help someone out, give your own advise from your perspective of what worked for you, or what you did in a similar situation and how it worked out. Please do someone the favor of NOT retweet or repost for lack of a better term from some other master coach or mPUA's stuff because it very well may not apply to them or the situation out there anymore, just as the gun lessons from WWII don't all apply now either.

I welcome your thoughts...

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:14 pm 
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This has been one of the issues that I've been having with a lot of the posters lately. The thing I notice is that on the surface level they have the right idea, but it's the same right idea that was in a book. They never understand at a deeper level than what they've read or they've modified a good technique and/or mindset and change it into something stupid (soft next immediately comes to mind).

Another thing that I'm kind of getting annoyed with is that more and more guys here are actively promoting that guys be something that they're not and then offering workarounds when these false fronts are exposed.

I was going to gripe about this today but you beat me to it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:38 am 
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Ironic thing is, when I first started reading your post I thought of the tactical gun training industry and then you started talking about it.

Its off topic but if you want a legit firearm training company then look at Suarez International and Tactical Response. Both companies took my skill level with a firearm and increased it to a level I didn;t think I would be at until many years down the line.

Now on topic, I'd say damn near 90% of the advice I see given here on the forum is shit. Seriously, men make this shit out to be waaaaay more complicated than it is. I was guilty of that once too.

Listen up men: Dont dress like shit, lift some weights, join social groups to gain some actual social skills, and go talk to pretty girls when you see them. Dont be afraid to ask them girls to hang out. If you arent socially retarded then pretty soon you will naturally get better and connecty the dots on what works for you and what doesn't.

If you are socially retarded then sorry then you're probably fucked. Life isn't fair, deal with it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:13 pm 
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I agree with your post. Gurus make books or videos, guys hear or read them and it sounds good.. Then they go on to repeat the advice. In a recent post I spoke on guys recommending books without speaking to how it helped them. This was taken as an attack on reading. You make a good point but sadly the community is so dogmatic that it forgets that good advice should come from experience, not what sounds good.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:41 pm 
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Glad to know that I am not the only one that feels this way. That being said I don't have a solution to this zombie virus except to pay attention to the background of individuals. It's easy for anyone on the forum to claim things and say they are a superstar pua.

Truth is in the words of the joker in Dark Knight "If you are good at something, never do it for free" is that most FREE advise may not be the best. The guys who are really really good figured this out early on. I'm not saying people can't give quality free posts because it does happen. As a moderator I've seen some big name PUA guys post on the forum here giving solid advice (Hypnotica, ExtraMask, Adam, and others I think). That being said it just doesn't happen often because guys like that are busy earning a living.

The good thing about the forum is maybe you're at step 1 and the guy posting to you has mastered steps 1 and 2 but may be struggling with 3. He can help you get past that level and maybe even up to his level. Again a "Master Coach" you can go further quicker in my humble opinion but again you just don't know who you are talking to. Ensure if you get community advise look at the individual and the name you are paying for. Ensure they have good reviews and a good track record. Give it some of the same research as you'd put into getting a house or a car. You're making an investment into your life, therefore, make it a good one.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:55 pm 
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Glad to know that I am not the only one that feels this way. That being said I don't have a solution to this zombie virus except to pay attention to the background of individuals. It's easy for anyone on the forum to claim things and say they are a superstar pua.

Truth is in the words of the joker in Dark Knight "If you are good at something, never do it for free" is that most FREE advise may not be the best. The guys who are really really good figured this out early on. I'm not saying people can't give quality free posts because it does happen. As a moderator I've seen some big name PUA guys post on the forum here giving solid advice (Hypnotica, ExtraMask, Adam, and others I think). That being said it just doesn't happen often because guys like that are busy earning a living.

The good thing about the forum is maybe you're at step 1 and the guy posting to you has mastered steps 1 and 2 but may be struggling with 3. He can help you get past that level and maybe even up to his level. Again a "Master Coach" you can go further quicker in my humble opinion but again you just don't know who you are talking to. Ensure if you get community advise look at the individual and the name you are paying for. Ensure they have good reviews and a good track record. Give it some of the same research as you'd put into getting a house or a car. You're making an investment into your life, therefore, make it a good one.

I gotta disagree here because alot of the paid dudes are scamming as well. How many have been caught with fake infield footage, false testimonials, shady bootcamp practices and made up field reports? I agree that the individual needs to take the advice, knowledge seriously....but that means that they should TEST what they learn before attaching an undying belief into it. Cant tell you how many guys Ive met whove said "X teacher is great, I went to his bootcamp and it was awesome." and when asked what results theyve gotten in the 6 months since the answer is "none." Then why praise the advice? Its a community filled with people not getting results from certain methods/books/videos and gurus, yet praising the work along with anyone else. Personally, I don't attach any value on any guru or poster, even the ones I enjoy. They could all be fake. Their advice could be wrong. What I focus on is whether they helped me and I got results from their advice. Not how many girls they said they've banged, or infields they've done that later turn out fake. All I can ever know is how their words helped me and got X results.

A few years ago a guy on the forum hit me up cause he moved to my city. We met at a bar, chatted, told him some stuff about girls and game since he was new to it. About 6 times girls I'd messed with came up and flirted with me at the bar and I could tell he was in awe at what I was saying to him and the quality of the girls. A couple weekends later, he hits me up to go to a bar, and he brings his roomate. At the bar, both are offering me $200 to teach them stuff. I tell the guy "Why the fuck are you offering to pay me?" He says "Oh cause you know your shit, you gave me good advice and I need more." I tell him "Did anything I say help you get chicks?" "Nah, I havent gone out and approached yet." I tell him "so how the fuck do you know I'm good, cause my words made sense and you saw some chicks? Don't go rushing to throw your money at me until what the fuck I said helps you in an actual way." Many guys in the community are quick to tie themselves onto advice without practicing it themselves and evaluating whether it works for them or not.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:58 am 
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Now a days I just assume every commerical dating coach is a fake until I find evidence (or am told by someone I trust who knows that coach personally) otherwise.

This problem should decrease as the community dies off a bit and becomes smaller. Not as much money in it will make the scammers go other places. Of course, it will also make some legit guys not bother teaching and use their time to make money other ways.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:30 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
Glad to know that I am not the only one that feels this way. That being said I don't have a solution to this zombie virus except to pay attention to the background of individuals. It's easy for anyone on the forum to claim things and say they are a superstar pua.

Truth is in the words of the joker in Dark Knight "If you are good at something, never do it for free" is that most FREE advise may not be the best. The guys who are really really good figured this out early on. I'm not saying people can't give quality free posts because it does happen. As a moderator I've seen some big name PUA guys post on the forum here giving solid advice (Hypnotica, ExtraMask, Adam, and others I think). That being said it just doesn't happen often because guys like that are busy earning a living.

The good thing about the forum is maybe you're at step 1 and the guy posting to you has mastered steps 1 and 2 but may be struggling with 3. He can help you get past that level and maybe even up to his level. Again a "Master Coach" you can go further quicker in my humble opinion but again you just don't know who you are talking to. Ensure if you get community advise look at the individual and the name you are paying for. Ensure they have good reviews and a good track record. Give it some of the same research as you'd put into getting a house or a car. You're making an investment into your life, therefore, make it a good one.

I gotta disagree here because alot of the paid dudes are scamming as well. How many have been caught with fake infield footage, false testimonials, shady bootcamp practices and made up field reports? I agree that the individual needs to take the advice, knowledge seriously....but that means that they should TEST what they learn before attaching an undying belief into it. Cant tell you how many guys Ive met whove said "X teacher is great, I went to his bootcamp and it was awesome." and when asked what results theyve gotten in the 6 months since the answer is "none." Then why praise the advice? Its a community filled with people not getting results from certain methods/books/videos and gurus, yet praising the work along with anyone else. Personally, I don't attach any value on any guru or poster, even the ones I enjoy. They could all be fake. Their advice could be wrong. What I focus on is whether they helped me and I got results from their advice. Not how many girls they said they've banged, or infields they've done that later turn out fake. All I can ever know is how their words helped me and got X results.

A few years ago a guy on the forum hit me up cause he moved to my city. We met at a bar, chatted, told him some stuff about girls and game since he was new to it. About 6 times girls I'd messed with came up and flirted with me at the bar and I could tell he was in awe at what I was saying to him and the quality of the girls. A couple weekends later, he hits me up to go to a bar, and he brings his roomate. At the bar, both are offering me $200 to teach them stuff. I tell the guy "Why the fuck are you offering to pay me?" He says "Oh cause you know your shit, you gave me good advice and I need more." I tell him "Did anything I say help you get chicks?" "Nah, I havent gone out and approached yet." I tell him "so how the fuck do you know I'm good, cause my words made sense and you saw some chicks? Don't go rushing to throw your money at me until what the fuck I said helps you in an actual way." Many guys in the community are quick to tie themselves onto advice without practicing it themselves and evaluating whether it works for them or not.
Thanks Neo, and that is what I was trying to get at is that you really need to talk to guys and see if they are getting results and checking a person out. Back to my comparison with the shooting industry just because you trained the local Sheriff's office one time doesn't mean they liked what you did or you got them results. You need to find a guy with a proven track record for helping guys get results, which is very hard to do especially with all the BS reviews and setup infield footage.

I could go deeper into infield footage as I was approached by a large name in the community to do some at one time and declined, but it is hard to succeed in the circumstances they want you to operate in. I'd imagine as a guy making money doing it for a living there is a TON of pressure to get it right so you keep selling your books, dvds, or bootcamps. I've worn hidden cameras in the field at times and succeeded and got it on tape. I've also had the stupid things die on me or the audio not pick up during some of the best times. You don't get a second take in real life. I don't want to derail my own post so I'll stop there.

RESULTS are what matter. I think you made another good point about guys who go to these bootcamps as almost a hero worship and even though they don't get any results they still swear by what the dude taught them. Some are so in love with the idea that they got to be in instructor X's class that they don't care what anyone else thinks, they are the real deal. That's cute they have a man crush but again RESULTS.

Which to be fair to some instructions here for a moment not everyone is a solid student, some don't put forth the effort that others do, some sabotage themselves, everyone is different and learns differently. Some guys can apply what they learned very quickly and others take a lot longer. There are just some students who are convinced it won't work from the get go, don't really give it a try, and when it doesn't work say they knew it wouldn't all along.

I wish there was a for lack of a better term an Angie's List or car buying guide for instructors out there. Maybe there is and I just don't know about it.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:14 pm 
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I think a big problem is guys out of fear trying to become "perfect" before they actually go and do. To use use the target shooting analogy they want to feel certain that they are super elite marksman capable of shooting 100% on target before they even pick up the gun. Thats just silly, when you think of it in terms of shooting but a lot of guys do that with trying to attract women.

I do agree that getting an excellent coach can be an immense help, but I would say it's actually a bad idea for guys to bother with until they are doing. All the firepower and training in the world won't help at all if you refuse to pull the trigger.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:17 pm 
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This forum needs this thread to be bumped right at this moment.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:31 pm 
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Brilliant post.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:57 pm 
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I like where this is going.

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