Not another new PUA method...



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:07 pm 
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I truly appreciate the innovation it takes to come up with a method for doing pickup. I can certainly appreciate those guru's out there such as Gambler, Sinn, Adam Lyons, Mystery, Style, Brad P., Hypnotica, etc. They truly are given a momenumental task with coming up with their original idea of their method or general principals for making what they do work.

I can also truly appreciate how difficult the marketing of their method must be. Constantly these men and others are coming out with new material to satisfy the young learning monster minds out there. They are constantly pushing limits and coming up with new ways to get the girls and market their products. Seriously this is no easy task.

Ok JSmooth I see what you are saying but what is the point? The point is simple there are lots of way to get the girl. There is no "one and only" way that works all the time which we know. The truth is the method Mystery employs works well, Gamblers works well, Sinns stuff works, and Adam Lyons stuff works too if you get in there and really apply what you learn from them.

One of the constant problems a lot of us that have been around a while is the "learning junkie" PUA. Guys come into the forum and they just want to absorb all they can because they think that LEARNING MORE is the answer to their deficiency. Then there becomes this fallacy that the "new" material is better than the old material.

Here is a revelation for some of you all. THE PROBLEM IS NOT A SHORTAGE OF NEW IDEAS BUT A LACK OF UNDERSTANDING THAT THE OLD IDEAS STILL WORK.

Wait JSmooth so therefore are you saying that Mystery Method still works using all those canned lines? Yep. 100% I will focus for a moment on the Mystery Method because there is a lot of bias around the fact that its been out a long time and it no longer works. Eric V. you can thank me later!

There is a lot of material that stems from the Mystery Method that #1 a lot of people haven't applied and/or don't understand the underlying principals regarding why it works. For instance there are people out there using David D.'s "cocky funny" style without reading the book and ultimately they are just being asshole to women. Evan P. you can thank me later!

Going back to Mystery Method cause this is an easy example is Negs! OMG, some of the negs you all say to women should land you in freaking prison or at least a kick in the balls. Those that understand the idea that just a few negs are needed, and most of the time aren't needed at all. There are those of you that understand that negs are meant to just be peppered in to make microcalibrations to the value shifts. Most of the people that really "get it" are those that have gone out and applied the craft.

Does that mean a neg won't work without understanding the underlying principals for why it was put in Mystery's Method? No, you can get results with it. It's like fishing in the dark though, you'll get sporadic results using the right bait, even if you aren't using it the right way.

Another side point I'll go ahead and make here is that a lot of people think of canned material as the openers specifically mentioned by Mystery Method or used on the VH1 show. As it is defined in the book Mystery and LoveDrop wrote it is any material you've used before that you can recall at a moments notice. The "Can" is your own memory. Yes that means that original opener you wrote and have used a few times is now considered "Canned material."

Guess what though... Can you use "Who lies more" as an opener and get women. Yep! I've done it fairly recently actually. I don't advise it because of how much that particular opener has been used but it can be done with little problems. The framework of the method works just fine, what you fill in the blanks with is up to you.

The old methods work just fine. I know it came out some 6 years ago and it's a shocking thought that some of the guys from that era that used it knew what the hell they were talking about and still do. People don't change! Evolutionary speaking it takes a while to put in change into a society. Since people don't change quickly that means the underlying principals that make a method work are still good to go. :)

This is why a book called Dale Carnegies book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" which is considered one of the top books about people and working with people by business written in 1936 still has a lot of principals that still work for us today. Yes 1936 principals still apply today.

I'm not knocking any of the new methods like 60 YOC because there are good principals in it as well, just as there are in the old material. The point is the enemy for you guys isn't finding the latest and hottest method that you just got an email about from your favorite guru. It is about getting good with what you already know, applying it in the field, and understanding the underlying principals that make it that method work.

Now comes the point where the guru's won't like me so much. Put down your latest copy of the DVD you got on pickup, stop the YouTube Videos, put down your 5th PUA book you are now reading...if you already have a PUA method in your head then get off your ass, get into the field, and apply what you've learned.

If you are new to the game and are trying to piece it together from the forum...STOP....spend the $20 to get a book or $100 to get some DVDs so that you can learn this the right way instead of trying to re-invent the wheel. If you are serious about getting good and making an impact in your life then you can afford to invest in yourself.

Final Thought: "If you haven't changed, you haven't learned."

Jon

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:49 pm 
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Excellent observations JSmooth!

Peace...

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:59 pm 
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I am gonna have to respectfully disagree with a lot of this post...

After joining the community i realize that a lot of gurus for example have some valid points, method etc... But some methods are suited for some individual better than others... For example i probably would look for something from you or adamtaste wrote on online game, is that is what i wish to do vs Mystery method...

If i am a virgin cluless in what to do at all with women, i probably get mm, if i want to do day game, maybe night game(no loud clubs)

If i am a natural good looking with a lot of game and some success, i probably do vin dicarlo or david d...

If i am a natural with some success in loud venue, i would probably do 60 yoc, gunwitch etc...

if i want to do foreign stuff maybe chief, or dj fuji or roosh..

If i want dancefloor game, well you get the point...

it depends on the individual strenghs, desires, niche and goals... some methods are better than other in certain situations...


If a dude would do Mystery Method in a loud club, with peackocking gear the dude is better of jerking off to his playboy...


or let say i am doing online game(your strength):

Subject: can i get your honest opinion on something?

Body: who lies more girls or guys?


By the way in your profile says that you do modeling? is that hand modeling?


That girl will not reply in a million years...

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:27 pm 
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I agree that everyone needs to find their own personal style(and have them fill that gap in their game) and what works for them skills but I think what Jon was saying holds a lot of validity. A lot of guys come on here and read 5 pua books and never really master the lessons, never apply the information and make it all useless. Having the knowledge is only half the battle, mastering it is where the success comes into play.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:57 pm 
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I agree


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:01 pm 
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Quote:
I agree that everyone needs to find their own personal style(and have them fill that gap in their game) and what works for them skills but I think what Jon was saying holds a lot of validity. A lot of guys come on here and read 5 pua books and never really master the lessons, never apply the information and make it all useless. Having the knowledge is only half the battle, mastering it is where the success comes into play.
Thanks for that!

Skills I won't disagree that you should find your own style and different styles and different teachers work better in different situations. I won't argue that at all. Not trying to. My point is a lot of people especially on the forum believe the Mystery Method and other methods to be worthless and they are not. They are often misused as you put doing that stuff online is just stupid.

Again back to the point is a lot of people come here thinking learning more is the answer and it isn't. Most guys here need to take what they already know, apply it, and learn its strengths and limitations as guys like you and I have come to understand them. And also that many of the old concepts STILL WORK!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:26 pm 
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JSmooth makes a telling point... 'Pick up' has been an art form for hundreds of years. Many simply naturally adapt towards attracting the opposite sex. Many were already doing the methods, lines, etc.... before they were ever defined and put on TV.

As JSmooth and Skills said - find your own game. I'm eclectic. I love to read, and I'm an avid learner - I love to delve into new books by different people, but it's a crap shoot. I told a guy in PM recently if he wants to buy a new 'system', to look at it like putting money in a slot machine. You may diagree with every fucking word the guys says. Oh well. Lesson learned. Or you can hit the jackpot and find what YOU consider as PUA gold... Truth is you'll pull that handle and you'll get a few coins - you'll get a few things that channel your thinking and conceptualization - and if you do, consider that success. There is no specific right or better way - there is just YOUR way.

Once you've practiced enough, once you've actually gained the experience of meeting hundreds of women, you'll find your own natural rythmn - at which point your own success will tell you what you need to know about pick up.

Does it work still? Yep. Well.

'Game' is simply a way for me to lower a lady's defenses enough for her to see that I'm a great guy she really wants to fuck - quickly. That's MY game.

RR

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:46 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
I agree that everyone needs to find their own personal style(and have them fill that gap in their game) and what works for them skills but I think what Jon was saying holds a lot of validity. A lot of guys come on here and read 5 pua books and never really master the lessons, never apply the information and make it all useless. Having the knowledge is only half the battle, mastering it is where the success comes into play.
Thanks for that!

Skills I won't disagree that you should find your own style and different styles and different teachers work better in different situations. I won't argue that at all. Not trying to. My point is a lot of people especially on the forum believe the Mystery Method and other methods to be worthless and they are not. They are often misused as you put doing that stuff online is just stupid.

Again back to the point is a lot of people come here thinking learning more is the answer and it isn't. Most guys here need to take what they already know, apply it, and learn its strengths and limitations as guys like you and I have come to understand them. And also that many of the old concepts STILL WORK!

ok got you, i misunderstood and you are 100% correct, they want more info. instead of applying whatever it is... Imo yes all you need is too need that basics of attraction, mm, david would do... And get the experience on the field, instead of searching and searching for a book that will give you a magic trick to get you laid, i sound like a broken record but Experience and the field is what will make you or break you, and as in anything in life practice makes perfect...

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Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
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http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:54 am 
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Exactly there just can't be enough said about this on the forum. I personally would ask all of you guys who read this post and agree with it. When you see a new guy on the forum whose read 5 different methods and wants to know where to go from here. Tell him he's done learning and to go into the field.

Experience and failure are the best teachers that I know as Skills pointed out above. It is a broken record but getting out there and making your own mistakes and finding your groove is the way it goes. For those who have read 5-6 different methods find one that's more your speed and stick to it.

This learning problem isn't much different than the cures for approach anxiety. Those that have problems approaching ultimately however they may slowly start into it, eventually they have to confront their fears and approach. The only way around the problem is to go right through it.

It is very easy to go out there and complain about the methods. It is easy to point your finger at the loud club music or the girl across the room that just shut you down. Take some accountability for yourselves in that maybe "YOU" are doing something incorrect and figure out how YOU can adapt to make the method work for you. Sometimes we have to mold to the method instead of making the method mold to us, cause nothing is going to be 100% customized to what you prefer. You can't change ME, you can't change the obstacles in field, you can't even change your targets and how they react. You can change YOU.

As they say accountability with getting better with all of this stuff starts with ME. :) So start asking yourself questions like.

What can I do to adapt to make this method I know to make it work for me?
What is it that I could be doing better?
How can I improve my sticking points?
How can I keep myself accountable to my goals with pickup?


Go as far as you can with the method you prefer and when you hit your sticking points come to the forum and get help. That's what we are all here to do! We are here to help each other as a community to get better with women, and improve our lives. If you aren't here to apply what you've learned then you aren't changing, and are just another keyboard jockey. Be proactive take the initiative to get in field and start learning.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:15 am 
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I agree with Jsmooth to 200%. How are methods born? They are born by someone who gets how stuff works, and how it works for him, all aspects of it. Then he takes the things that is most important for him and summarize them in a book and wraps it into a nice package and sells it.

In some cases the method is gonna work for many people but most likely it only works for a few.

Some people having methods that work for naturals have based their methods on what works for people with their own set of advantages. Like having balls and lookinng better than ok, being social. That is why they are so popular with elitistic egocentric machomen.
Why then is Mystery so popular? He has made his method from his own strengths and weaknesses. He was a tall skinny nerd who loves analyzing things. His method obviously works for people who are nerdy and not very alpha, thus he spends a lot of time explaining how to mimic being alpha. This is something that people using direct game rarely has problems with, thus the lack of it. Its just said, be alpha and never explained how to be. Frankly, most people who come here suck at pickup and they need help. So chances are that they are gonna be nerds, like me. So the MM is attractive to them. Now people say that Mystery dont use his own method anymore and yes, he doesnt need to. He dont have to overcome being a nerd anymore, he has developed himself so he can just skip that part now. Same with all of us.

Anyone making their own method does so by focusing on what methods have overcome their personal sticking points and that is all good. But it will only apply to people with the same kind of sticking points.

So to summarize the direct vs indirect debate:
Direct: I have balls and your method is stupid.
Indirect: Im trying to grow balls and your method is stupid.
All: Yey, we are different.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:22 am 
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jay, you def. right on!

the core lies in the fact that it's a lot easier to read a forum or a book than it is to tackle aa and get out there, ready to fuck it all up!

yes, it's dumb to go out with an unloaded gun. know your stuff, but practice is what makes a pua, not theories.

also what i think gives a bad rep. to a lot of mpua's and their seminars. these students need to go out and apply, and understand that they will fuck up!

reading a book on tennis and getting on the court will not make you a roger federer. neither will reading a book on f1 make you nikki lauda.

check out "skill's" post about "the worst type of newbie". it's really true.


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