We've all read Mystery. We've all read cock & funny. We've all read alpha male. We've all read negs, dhv, direct, and indirect game. Finally someone like 60yoc came along and some form of pick-up enlightment took place within the community. Boys started turning into men. Dicks and balls were starting to sprout and become bountiful just as the amount of hot women we see every day. People have learned to be genuine and direct with their intentions and no longer take rejection seriously as well as not trying to think what she's thinking anymore. But the dilemma is that all of these events that took place, led guys to start to believe that game does not exist. What once started as believing in being a pick-up artist being a Don Juan and having high ratios has changed into a numbers game. I, myself fell into it too. But then some people decided to revert back to the old definition that game is a skill, it is a form of art which got my attention.

So are guys now being overly realistic and completely rejecting the existence of game, art, and finesse? Discuss.

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Don't get on one knee for a girl that won't get on two for you.

look chrish 60 is legit and imo one of the/if not the best material out there, here is the problem if you are too inflexible when it comes to 60. For example Problems that would make you abnormal with 60 if you follow like the bible are -do not be funny, risk creepy(most people don't get this shit, i understand what 60 is saying, but a lot of you misunderstand it and do it wrong), do the thing that causes the most tension etc... 60 is good for a loud, club game environment in night game, similar to the shit i do, the rejection stuff(i get what he is saying) but getting rejected and rejected and rejected, till you find the girl that will say yes, is efficient but .. Better do warm approaches base on body language etc..... Again, the best shit out there, cause of his emphasis in not talking much, be honest in your intention, escalate, no stupid ass routines etc... But there has to be an element of seduction(game). And is ok to make a girl laugh, is ok to make out, is ok to seduce, is ok to text, is ok to push pull, is ok to do takeaways...Then Just like mm, most people with 60 are having a problem in mid game and connecting with the girl, in my opinion... MM, is just crap i just finish reading it again, only maybe 5% is useful, but is design for 40 year old virgins, that are kind of nerdy etc... Since you are so good looking please keep away from anything cocky funny... You will be ok just stop being so 60 yoc robotic... I am glad you finally realizing that shit ain't working right... Dude you are just starting you will be fucking superstar...You need too keep a low profile, NO MORE STUPID ASS SHIRTLESS PICS, that is look at me look at me look at me... Women don't like that shit, it means you are too much into yourself, i am telling you women don't like that shit... I know "the jersey shore dudes" popularize that shit, but it does not work, they get pussy because they are popular with money, no other reason, they are weak...

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I wouldn't call it being realistic, but yes.

Here's the thing. Most people are so wholly consumed by their ego, they'll do anything to protect it, which causes them to pervert what a lot of pickup gurus teach into a methodology that prevents them from doing anything that might risk exposing said ego to scrutiny.

It's this dynamic that gives birth to waves of posts like the recent 'Just tell her how hot she is then stare at her til she goes home with you' meme that has permeated our forum. As I have expounded upon elsewhere, this type of 'game,' if it can be called that, serves no purpose other than to shield one's ego from the potential rejection that could follow if the guy were to do anything that expressed any part of his personality. After all, she can't reject YOU if she doesn't know YOU. All she can really do is make it clear that she's not going to go in for that kind of tactless advance.

I'll admit that I've never read any 60YOC. I've never read much pickup material at all outside of "The Game," which is what initially attracted me to this community. As a natural, I never had a need for material and, truth be told, think exposing myself to a lot of it might encourage me to be less genuine.

And being genuinely oneself is always the most attractive thing a man can be, no matter the method or style of game he chooses to employ. The trick, of course, is to express it in an appealing, fun, seductive way, which is where the finesse the OP wrote about enters the equation.

That's what makes this whole thing worth doing.

Well, that and being in the company of some of Earth's most wonderful, beautiful, enchanting inhabitants.

Your boy,
870

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"Do not blame, call out, alpha male, superman, or water sprinkle any hoes. And what will be, will be." -Hobbit

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Just because Stelar and a few of his groupies felt that doesn't mean the whole forum does. Most don't.

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Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

I gotta ask, Chris, were all of those We are's supposed to be I am's? I mean, you were a big proponent of the style that you are now suggesting isn't perfect. And if that's the case, this post is just a means of asking for help without admitting you were wrong by spreading blame around.

Regardless, nobody's wrong, pickup is a matter of social sciences. Things are often subjective. 60YOC, MM, Adam Lyons, all of their ideas can be good in the right situation. Plus, you should try things out yourself. Just don't follow some guy's system to the letter as if it were gospel. Those guys developed game that worked for them, then just explained it in a marketable way.

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These hos ain't loyal

A common problem is that the one who shouts loudest sound like they are more numerous than they are. Most of us still believe that game is a skill.

It is a combination, there are some girls who will initially be interested in you based on your looks or whatever, that is a numbers game. Then there are those who hasnt decided yet and they can be "convinced" using PU skills. And there are people who wont ever be interested, thats a numbers game too.

So yes if you wanna drop all your skills and just go for people who are initially interested (DTF girls), it is a numbers game. Its called warm approaching. Just like youtube:ing people showing how to win a computergame, you goet to "win" without using any skill of your own.

The fact that people rhetorically call people doing cold approaches PU-monkeys instead of PU artists changes nothing. It just shows how low you have to stoop to protect your viewpoint.

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

here is the problem with 60 yoc, by some dude name refuter:



Guys that act act "as if" attraction was there and continue pushing by whatever means (verbal or kino etc) come off as creeps or socially inexperienced (which most of them certainly are). When you keep "gaming" a girl while she's not attracted to you, you actually prove her that you don't get it. You demonstrate that you're clueless about flirting and you have low EQ/empathy and minimal experience with women.

_________________
Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction

I haven't read 60yoc yet, but I'll check it out.

I think you've described two extremes. The first to arise was the Mystery Method "Adopt this personality so you can get girls!" idea. That came before my time, but I can see how it would be appealing, all you have to do is use the lines that other people have proved are successful, and you will be successful.

The second, more recent extreme, is the super-directness, a la Stelar. The PUA community has discovered the concept of honesty and took it to its fullest expression. This is the "I came to this club for sex, so that's what I'm going to ask for" mentality. It works, as numerous stories have pointed out, but sex is all you ever get, because it's all you ever asked for.

You can use both of these philosophies in tandem.

I understand body language, after reading a lot of material about it. I am able to pick up on social cues that way, it's very useful. Despite it being material though (I also use a couple kino routines) I still feel like its a genuine part of my personality, not some MM-manufacture.

Also, many newbs are scared of taking the "I want sex" approach, which is IDEAL if used at the right time! There is a time in a natural interaction where you can physically show a girl "I want sex!!" and its the right move! It doesn't need to come at the beginning of an interaction.

It could be Stelar being the loudest making it look numerous like Ezo said. Then again, Stelar gets his ideas from Bad Boy whose not that much different. I've been into Aaron Sleazy recently, he seems to follow a similar route. There's been lots of talk about unlearning game in order to have game.

Some say that trying to make a girl laugh and getting good reactions is playing the boyfriend role and selling yourself. After all, this is how most people on here viewed "game" in the past. Sarcasm, wit, humor, etc.

What happened to me personally is that I dropped the sarcasm, the wit, the humor. I just layed sex on the table and I no longer cared about explaining myself, proving myself, or showing how entertaining I am. It came at the price of not being able to connect with women very well at all, I get boxed in.

Game here was heavily based on being social and then it changed to being sexual. I guess you can't do either one, it's got to be both.

And yes, everything is subjective..which why it's difficult drawing a conclusion from these forums. These forums are starting to seem as a tool of calibrating view points in order to get closer to the real deal.

_________________
Don't get on one knee for a girl that won't get on two for you.

60yoc is just saying to do something that works with a certain percentage of women. Same as any other method.

aaron sleazy and 60 very similar... Both good for night game in a club environment... You do not TRY to make a girl laugh or get reactions, that won't work... You try you lose...

_________________
Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction

60yoc gives a reality check at the end chapter about the purity/affection issue
all men have to face.It's a sobre thought about what you think you are gaming
for when the other party is gaming also.The reality for the need of affection is greater than sex and you will never be loved as much as you would like to think you should be.It's a choice you have to make.Freedom or her agenda.His advice is
get your affection from other sources so you won't be held hostage or be disappointed with the reality of your choice.

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law of attraction=Your reality is the outcome of your thoughts.

This topic is a fucking highlight. I'm glad to see the real people here posting...I've always been direct. I started off direct, but a lot of persistence methods like 60YOC/ Real Social Dynamics "Hotseat" event methods, etc stress persistence but RESPONSIVENESS. A lot of the stuff Julien does in his infield video (i think skills u saw this on the Night game direct topic) can be perceived as creepy, but he is still responsive.

The problem is, even though you are man to woman, you show your intentions, and it's very direct no bullshit - it does not guarantee results. It really doesn't. Sometimes it does sometimes it doesn't.

Chris, I am beginning to respect you more for your deep analysis into all these theory game and asking this question regardless of the level of deep discussion that can happen.

Man let me tell you, I've done Mystery Method, I've done Direct and Indirect, and sometimes it feels like it just depends on your momentum, and your state (we ARE human beings). Just 2 days ago, I did Direct game on a girl.

Straight up went and said you are so fucking delicious and she laughed and then I just negged her on her hat and also started to just do whatever in the frame that I'm HOT shit.

The real problem with Mystery, Direct, Indirect, etc is they all share so many elements. I sometimes go indirect, then build to direct (Mystery), other times I go direct, and add indirect stuff (Negs, DHV) but keeping my intentions direct as man to woman.

It all fucking seriously blurs to some level once you delve into it...it's all open mindedness.

Skill....numbers game? I think the question itself you pose is open to so many variables, it's hard to decide.

All I know is this Chris: Girls respond differently. That is just life. Some would love direct, some hate it, some love indirect, but crave direct in different moments.

The question is not "is pickup still a SKILL?" but more of ...."is pickup a rigid set of rules...or can there be more to it than meets the eye?"

I think Mystery, Don Juan, Tyler Durden, Julien, Brad Branson, 60YOC are all saying the same thing to some strong level.

Naw, it works with a certain TYPE of woman. Since you can't screen for 'DTF' with 100% accuracy, there is a numbers game feel to it.

Does anyone alter their techniques to get different types of girls? Is it systematically done or do you just calibrate the interaction as it progresses?

Vin DiCarlo's Pandora's Box is all about identifying a woman's type and correctly behaving, like whether or not to show interest early or compliment her. I never got really into it, does anyone know this system?

Not at all. When I was single, my game was specifically geared toward screening for and weeding out women whose personalities weren't compatible with mine while encouraging those who were to want to get to know me.

Then again, I cared about more than just fucking as many women as possible.

Your boy,
870

_________________
"Do not blame, call out, alpha male, superman, or water sprinkle any hoes. And what will be, will be." -Hobbit

http://tinyurl.com/c6lbje<-Member Journal (PMZ Only)