Candid Review of AFC Adam's DC Bootcamp



Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.   Board index » Reviews




Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:41 am 
Offline
New to MPUA Forum

Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:10 pm
Posts: 4
I shelled out the $1,000 and attended AFC Adam's DC bootcamp over the weekend.

Okay, before I get into the real nitty-gritty of what happened, how it all went, the quality I felt I got and my take on the whole thing, I will preface this all by saying that:

1. Yes, this is generally a negative review, and it's long; I'll give you a blow-by-blow of what happened to back it up; you can read it all and make up your own mind.

2. Anything where I reference any of the instructors specifically, they are not personal attacks, but rather serve to demonstrate the level of skill that I saw, and the quality of education that I felt I got.

3. I will have a lot more respect for this forum if this thread doesn't disappear mysteriously, because I dare to disagree with <a href="http://www.afcadam.com">AFC Adam</a>, PUA Training, or the way they teach. I can't post this in the "Review" section b/c I don't have 30 posts under this screen name. I'd be happy if a mod. could move it to that section, but that's no biggie. If this post is deleted, I will simply post it on lots of blogs, all out and about on the internet, to make sure it's seen.

Okay, here we go:

Friday: I arrived at the hotel, the lecture portions were held in their actual hotel room, not a conference room rented out at the hotel or anything, so it was me and like 12 guys crammed on a couch, for over 6 hours each day, it was really uncomfortable and hot as hell. So the bootcamps are labeled "AFC Adam's US Bootcamps", but Adam was largely nowhere to be seen for the bulk of the bootcamp. The sales website talked about Adam agreeing to do another US tour, but we learned that he lives in Austin with his wife, and has like a 10 year visa.

A good hour or so of day one was all about how Adam telling us how awesome PUA Training is, how they're the best, how they've gotten people better results than any of the other teachers out there, etc. I felt: "Okay, but why do they have to tell us this?" Then he mentioned that top, famous PUA's in the world call his wife (one of the other instructors) on a regular basis for tips. Again, I thought, "Okay."

Then they brought in Luke, one of the other instructors, of 4. Now Luke is a cool guy; he's loud, super-friendly, extroverted, and got great reactions from girls that night, from what I saw. He can just find a way to keep on talking and get girls to blush, etc.

But when they started talking about how much of a loser he used to be, and how he was just this shy, fat guy that cried the first time he had to approach a girl, I just didn't believe it. I mean, I'm not saying transformations don't happen, but this was just over-the-top. I think this guy had some pretty good social skills in the first place, that's why they brought him on as an instructor....why train good ones when pretty socially literate people can more easily be brought into the fold?

Adam said, "The way we do it, is we don't want to hear about what another company says about how to pick up girls, or make comparisons to other PUA's or anything like that."

Then he told us that although usually the instructors do demo's, since Adam's married and his wife will be out with us, it'd be wierd, but this is something they can show us: then they put on a quick, 10 second video showing 5 girls in their bras and panties in a hotel room jumping on beds and throwing pillows at each other. It looked like something that could've just been cut from one of those "girls-gone-wild" videos. And Adam said, "This is what we've actually gotten." I thought that was pretty lame. There were no guys to be seen in the video, much less any of the instructors.

So now, I'm a little disenchanted, b/c I thought, as the sales site pitches, it would be about watching Adam work, b/c he's so awesome. What a coincidence that he suddenly can't show us what's really going on....

Adam said that over the weekend, he will personally consult with each of us, one-on-one, at some point, to help us each get over our sticking points. Yeah, this never happened...a few guys each night were paired up with Adam as an instructor, and they rotated it, but this 1-1 thing never happened.

Adam said he had a problem with the way the marketing company pushes the bootcamps; he said "Apparently, for the Miami one, we were guaranteeing "pussy-pounding-pleasure" within 4 minutes of meeting the girl" and how that's not gonna happen. He said if anyone shows up thinking that's what they're gonna get, he'll give a full refund, b/c there's no way you can guarantee that. But he did say that yes you can get to that point, just not in a weekend, ok, fair enough.

But he did take quite a bit of time to let us know that a lot of the claims made on the sales site were things we just weren't gonna see. Too bad, b/c I was pulled in by a headline on the website about "girls pounding at my door, begging for me to have them, etc."

One of their phone reps said that Adam's style includes a lot of NLP, and that that's what I could expect at the bootcamp. There was no NLP anywhere.

Okay, the lecture material was really repackaged stuff, a lot of Mystery's, RSD's, and Neil Strauss' stuff, just said in different terms.

The field sessions consisted of instructors saying, "Go up to those girls; go talk to that group." that's not teaching, I'm sorry. They were trying to get us to just bombard groups of girls, and even guys with AFC questions. Generally the girls were not receptive, and just plain weren't interested.

There were these two girls my instructor told me to approach, and afterward, when I explained how I said just what I was told to say, and how they reacted (with one-word-answers, etc.) I was told, "Well, you see, those girls have been hit on all night, yeah these bootcamps are tough b/c most of the time you're not gonna have like 15 guys competing with you and talking to the girls one after another like that, so that's a little different."

I did get a number from one girl; she was just a pretty cool girl, and we had a good rapport going, etc. A few people in our group had some success that night...2 got makeouts, at least one got laid, and we all got numbers. The student who got laid said it had nothing to do with the instructors. I'm wondering if some of the friendly girls weren't just "plants", as in, the instructors get there early, and pay like 2-3 girls or something to be really friendly to us, and eventually give us their number at the end of the night, to make it look like it worked.

No alcohol rule. Yeah, that's the rule. Perfect, take someone who's nervous as shit, usually awkward approaching groups cold, and could use a drink or two to loosen up, and tell them they can't have one drink, no instead, you know what they were recommending? RED BULL!!! Oh yeah, that'll help someone who's high-strung and nervous. I think this is all just part of a ploy to keep up from being that successful, so they can keep us in their programs, etc.

Feedback I got from instructors was as deep and insightful as "You looked uncomfortable." or, "You looked like you were trying to get the girl." When you push someone into a group and say, "Go do it." don't you think they're gonna be a little more outcome-attached, and stressed-out?

When I'd then ask the instructor to do it better than I did and show me how it was done, he'd always get the same response from the girls that I did. I never saw an instructor get one of those impossible girls I talked to, to open up any more than I got them to.

I pushed to ask stuff like, "So what do you do? Oh you're a nurse? I love nursing! I have a bunch of friend's who're nurses."

So by the end of the 1st field night, I got to thinking, "You know, these guys don't know shit about picking up girls; they just know how to chill back in a corner of a bar and tell guys to go up to people, then give half-backed, half-assed feedback."

Day 2: long lecture, similar material, followed by a field night at the same venue.

That day, Adam asked everyone in the room to raise their hand if they got a number, when we did, he said, "See, we're the ONLY school that consistently has gotten 100% number close rates on the first night. You guys are awesome! You have what it takes to get girls' numbers!!!" Then he disappeared for the rest of the day.

I felt like I was being fed a line. Getting a girl's number is no problem. I've gotten as many as 10 a night in my hometown. Girls will give out their number.


Even the guys that got success on night 1 told me at the end of night 2 "man...things aren't so great now." It was a lot quieter, mostly groups of girls out for birthdays with 40 year old dudes, etc., and most of the girls were either older, housewives, not hot, or okay-attractive, and extremely unfriendly.

The common complain I get from DC women is that guys usually don't hit on them b/c usually there are no dudes in clubs and bars in DC....it's all girls, yet somehow, they were able to pick the one venue that had heaps of dudes, and mostly unfriendly, homely-looking girls.

The instructors couldn't do any better than I could with these girls; I watched them.

I read a recent post about PUA Training's bootcamps, and some guy said something like, "At least they have a money-back guarantee." Actually.....no..., there's no guarantee to be found, anywhere, so they must have changed that. Read the sales site, the disclaimer talks all about how this is entertainment purposes only, and there's no warranty, etc.

So needless to say, it started to sink in towards the end of night 2, this idea had been nawing at the back of my head for the past day, but finally hit me: "These guys are fucking full of shit!!!! They haven't been drinking their own Koolaid...they're drowining in it!!!!"

For day 3, we focused mostly on day game, met in midtown DC, went back to the hotel, then called it quits.

Tyler, with RSD talks about how they attract a higher quality student, that years ago it was the world of warcraft people they used to bring in, who wanted to pick up a girl, and take her back to the basement, but these days, it's all cool, chill guys that do RSD's stuff, and just want to get better at meeting girls.

Most of these guys at this bootcamp were some major nerds, socially awkward, and actually pretty young too. I'm a little older, and I get put off when we have to change the venue b/c someone's under 21.

Anyway, this is what happened and this is my take. I can't, in good conscience give any more positive of a review than this. Feel free to respond, agreeing, disagreeing, feedback of any kind; I'd be happy to hear it.


Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:05 pm 
Offline
MPUA Forum Enthusiast

Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:57 am
Posts: 65
Damn! that's quite a complaint :P

I was seriouslt considering taking a love systems bootcamp, but i'm afraid it will be the same shit as you said here. of course their website is full of good reviews but what does that prove? nothing i guess. anyone got some experience with it?


Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:17 pm 
Offline
Dedicated Member

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:24 pm
Posts: 732
Location: Montreal
Don't worry it wont get deleated... I most likely will be moved to the review section, but that's ok.

Great insight. Thanks for sharing. This is why I'm leaning towards finding a local guy rather then a 'PUA academy'. I would pay a guy like Chief or Doctor 10 times before going to one of those big events.


Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:55 pm 
Offline
MPUA Forum Enthusiast

Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:57 am
Posts: 65
If adam isn't gaming because he's married he shouldnt be doing the bootcamps... that's my opinion.


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:33 am 
Offline
Homewrecker
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:09 pm
Posts: 1063
Location: Springfield, Missouri, USA
Quote:
I can't post this in the "Review" section b/c I don't have 30 posts under this screen name. I'd be happy if a mod. could move it to that section, but that's no biggie.
Your wish is my command :)

Your boy,
870

_________________
"Do not blame, call out, alpha male, superman, or water sprinkle any hoes. And what will be, will be." -Hobbit

http://tinyurl.com/c6lbje<-Member Journal (PMZ Only)


Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:27 am 
Offline
Member of MPUA Forum

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:56 pm
Posts: 185
First all of all thank you Chicago Boy for writing a review of a live Bootcamp.
It is extremely rare to find a review about Live Bootcamps and I am surprised I haven’t seen more reviews (good or bad) on Pick Up Artist Forum about other PUA companies as well.

As feedback Chicago boy I have to say the points that you’ve raised are pretty much standards complaints about Live Workshop Based Companies- no matter which company you go to whether its-

Real Social Dynamics (“Tyler Durden” from The Game)
Love Systems (Formerly Mystery Method until Mystery left)
Venusian Arts (Mystery’s New Company)
Speed Seduction (Ross Jeffries)

ALL the above companies live workshops have been criticised in some way or another online. If you look in the “comments” section of sites like Seduction Chronicles many former students have written less than positive reviews about various PUA workshops and the lack of talent in the instructors.
Unfortunately most of the above have “self moderated” forums and will delete generally negative reviews of bootcamps or criticism of their Instructors.

One company listed above (who I won’t name so I don’t appear inpartial) even banned me for daring to ask on their forum why they didn’t post infield videos of their instructors practicing what they preached. I was then labelled as “the one with the problem” and banned for “Spamming”.

Back to AFC Adam’s Bootcamp Review and explaining why it didn’t turn out the way it did.

1) Bootcamp was held in a Hotel Room instead of a Conference Room

Answer- Pretty standard I’m afraid. Whilst many companies portay Bootcamps being held in Conference Rooms in their Promotional DVD sets or TV spots; the reality is that most- hold theirs in Coffee Shops, Restaurants, Public Gatherings- or even by the sidewalk etc. This includes Real Social Dynamics or Love Systems who (if you look at unbiased reviews online have been held in Pizza Hut etc).

2) AFC Adam was nowhere to be seen for the majority of the Bootcamp

Answer- Again the way “Conference” DVD sets put out by these PUA Companies appears to show the main PUA “Superstars” as running the Bootcamp and you getting taught by Mystery, Neil Strauss, Tyler D, Ross Jeffries etc. The truth is they are just the “figureheads” and many Bootcamps are taught mainly by Interns, Approach Coaches, Junior Coaches.
Your criticism is right; many of these junior coaches aren’t much better with women than the students. In fact rumour has it that some junior coaches are still virgins themselves or have only ever slept with one woman in their life.
This is true across the board; and the point is raised by experienced men who attend these Bootcamps purely to learn how to Attract Women of Higher Quality and Looks.
The bottom line is if you think you’re better- why not apply for an internship? You’d get paid if you could prove your worth. Gambler (PUA Training) did, AFC Adam (Attraction Explained/PUA Training) did, Savoy (Love Systems) did, Discovery (Venusian Arts) did etc.

3) Adam said, "The way we do it, is we don't want to hear about what another company says about how to pick up girls, or make comparisons to other PUA's or anything like that."
Answer- Hmmm now I find this part a tad suspicious. Did AFC Adam really say that? I trained with AFC Adam when he was based here in the UK in London and I did a One on One training session with him (when the facility was available). I said that I preferred Mystery’s A=Attraction, C=Comfort, S=Seduction over AFC Adam’s own
(C-R)+Q+SE=A.
Unlike other companies who insist you use their own respective Methods, Models AFC let me use Mystery Method as a basis for the session whilst adding in his own inputs about Pre-selection, Entourage Game etc. In fact click on AFC Adam’s picture above this forum and it reads “Myframe: a core understanding of what attracts us to other people, and what causes them to be attracted to us in return. From this core knowledge and understanding you can use any method from any Pick Up Company, dating coach or even just invent your own, and still meet and attract the person of your dreams.”

4) Lack of any video evidence of AFC with girls- (sic) girls bouncing on a bed could’ve been ripped from a “Girls Gone Wild Video”

Answer- go onto Youtube and search “Adam Lyons”, “AFC Adam”, “Attraction Explained”, “Dating Science”.
Adam Lyons has not only posted videos of him Approaching, Opening hot women- he has also done one of him number closing (see PUA Training Website).
In fact emulate what you see in this video because it works 100% of the time.
Very few MPUAs release videos of themselves infield- so its just a case of blind faith trusting your money elsewhere.
However be wary of infield videos- they can be faked. I almost believed that “Seduce In Seconds” guy and “MYPUAJOURNEY” (search on Youtube be amazed) before googling PUA Watchdog and being disillusioned.

5) Marketing saying Pussy Pounding Pleasure-Girls Knocking on Door.

Answer- If I am not mistaken- AFC Adam is famed for his “Entourage Game” (that is turning up to a club with 10 women on his arms) and getting into exclusive clubs via Social Proof and Pre-selection.
I’m sure he (or his instructors) must have run through it then? If not then the chances of you getting laid this way are pretty much slim.

6) “Obvious feedback” from Instructors- who had as about as much luck as the students.

Answer- again this boils down to the question “are you better than the Interns?” If you understand the Psychology behind Dating, Social Proof, Pre-selection and PUA then you should consider being an instructor.
Even people who have attended other PUA Companies have had “their opinions about so called top 5 MPUAs in Thundercats list and walked away disappointed. Some have the complete opposite opinion and shout their names from the rooftops.

7) So by the end of the 1st field night, I got to thinking, "You know, these guys don't know shit about picking up girls”

Answer- to be honest the above statement is the same idea I had about all PUA in general regardless of the Instructor, the Company, whether they were “System Based” or (so called) “Naturals”.
I have met 100s of guys who are complete pussy magnets- who have never studied PUA or psychology, Evolutionary Biology, or NLP etc and can still get laid (for real) on a weekly or daily basis.
Many had well paid “purposeful jobs” (that required professional skills), Good Genetics, Had a Nice Car, Had a Large Social Circle of Popular Friends, a Nice Flat House (let’s face it we don’t get laid at our parents houses do we?).
Some had access to “the source” of Illegal Drugs (Cocaine, Ecstasy) some had Spearmint Rhino Strippers as girlfriends.

As a closing statement I will also make a reference to the Book “If you see The Buddha on the Road Kill Him”
The moment one believes they’ are an “expert” on something is when they STOP becoming an expert.
So take the best parts of the Bootcamp (if any) relate what was taught to your own lifestyle and integrate into your nights out.

As you said it yourself- you met one guy who claimed he got laid without any influence from the bootcamp itself.
Did you ask this person what it was that he did? Did you need AFC Adam’s permission to get this info or did you hold back because you were only meant to learrn "PUA"?


Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:49 am 
Offline
Member of MPUA Forum

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:56 pm
Posts: 185
Quote:
Damn! that's quite a complaint :P

I was seriouslt considering taking a love systems bootcamp, but i'm afraid it will be the same shit as you said here. of course their website is full of good reviews but what does that prove? nothing i guess. anyone got some experience with it?
As I mentioned compaints about live workshop companies apply to all companies.

Unlike Chicago boy there Mark, you have the best part of $3000 Dollars to worry about lol :lol: !

As for the positive reviews they don't make room for "negative reviews" so its up to you.

I have heard negative reviews about all companies and Love Systems was one of them.


Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:55 am 
Offline
Member of MPUA Forum

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:56 pm
Posts: 185
Quote:
If adam isn't gaming because he's married he shouldnt be doing the bootcamps... that's my opinion.
AFC Adam is not married. Its all a Publicity Stunt.

Damn celebrities :evil:

Just joking. I can vouch for Adam Lyons Approaching Skills I have seen him do it, its amazing.

I refuse to comment on how his Marriage affects his ability to do Bootcamps but what I will say is good luck to him.

I have never heard of a married PUA- but if that means not being able to approach other women then thats another nail in the coffin called "The idea of getting married" :roll:


Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:45 am 
Offline
MPUA Forum Enthusiast

Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:57 am
Posts: 65
jesus christ! what a downer!

I actually called love systems and asked them about the bootcamp and the level of their instructors. I wanna take it to get with a higher quality women, i AM picking up 9s and 10s but not consistently, and i wanted to be an instructor.
They told me i HAD to take the bootcamp in order to become an instructor and that after this bootcamp i could pick up any 9 and 10 i saw walking down the street.
Still i was suspicious...

Judging by this story I'd be teaching the instructors on how to pick up women instead of the other way around.... what a crock!


Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:55 pm 
Offline
Master PUA

Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:04 pm
Posts: 444
Website: http://www.attractionexplained.com
Location: Everywhere!
Heya man,

I just true sending you a pm, but it doesn't seem to be taking, however seeing as how I was google to repost it here for everyone to read I figured I'd write it here for you.

sorry to hear You didnt enjoy the camp man,

we feel really bad when someone doesn't enjoy the experience, and are not only happy to give you a refund but would love to talk to you about getting feedback on how we could improve the experience for you in the future and seeing if we can help you improve your skill as well!

We were exceptionally sad to hear you hadn't enjoyed it as 4 guys got laid over the weekend and some of them enjoyed it so much they road tripped down to NY to catch up with us this end.

Feel free to drop me your number and or email and a time when it's convenient to call. And I'd be happy to discuss ways we can make it up to you.

Kind regards

Adam,


Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:11 pm 
Offline
Master PUA

Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:04 pm
Posts: 444
Website: http://www.attractionexplained.com
Location: Everywhere!
And apparently iPhones change what you write with predictive yet :0s


Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:03 am 
Offline
New to MPUA Forum

Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:27 am
Posts: 3
Location: D.C.
I also attended this bootcamp and feel compelled to give another perspective. I'll give some comments about myself and my experience with the bootcamp, and then try to respond to the specific issues that Chicagoboy mentioned.

First of all, let me say that I did not know anyone from PUA Training before this camp, and had not even communicated with them, except to sign up for the course. In fact, I had taken a bootcamp from another company in New York the week before (Art of Charm) for more than triple the price of PUA Training, and it had not given me a whole lot of new information or skills, so I wasn't expecting much when I showed up that Friday in DC.

I also had not really looked at any ads that claim ""girls pounding at my door, begging for me to have them, etc." . (I think if that was your expectation, then you would have disappointed with any bootcamp that you attended, regardless of content or instructor, because you're expecting magic, not an instructional course. BTW, I've got some penis enlargement pills I'd love to sell you dirt cheap that will double the size of your member.) I basically had gone to Adam's website, watched his tutorials, and come to the conclusion that this guy seems like he knows what he is talking about. If he's as good in person as he is on his videos, then my game could improve tremendously from his feedback.

Having said this, I was actually considering not signing up for the course at all. The other company had already convinced me to drop $3500 on a 1-week live-in and had even told me that Adam wouldn't be running the field nights at his bootcamp and I wouldn't get much personal attention from him. Based on this, I was hesitant, but I dropped the $1000 on Adam's course anyway, because I had a feeling that I would regret it if I didn't find out whether he was for real or not. (NB: I am not wealthy, so this combined expenditure was a big percentage of my annual income.) I'm extremely glad that I did decide to do Adam's course.

First, it was completely different than the last course I did. It had a specific syllabus, a tight schedule, and plenty of exercises. Moreover, Adam's Assistant Coaches (Luke and Psych) were more than happy to do demos whenever we were having trouble or needed an example of how to apply a principle. (This was not the case in the other camp I attended.) They also never had more than 4 students with a single coach, at least 4 people had a 2-to-1 ratio each night, and more often the feedback was individualized.

I did not personally see the Assistant Coaches get blown out. If you say they did, then I'm not going to disagree, but I can tell you what I saw. I saw the Assistant coaches pulling attractive girls away from the guys they were with. I saw them get the attention of groups of girls, and have them all smiling and laughing and dancing with them. To cite just one example, I knew a guy at the venue who was with a group that had paid for a table and bottle service. He invited me over for a drink and told me that all 4 guys had tried to hit on the table of Japanese girls next to them and gotten shot down. He knew that I was with a pickup class and asked what they should do. I told him to hold on for a few minutes. Within 10 minutes, one of our instructors not only had all three of these "cold" Japanese girls outside of their VIP rope, but they were dancing in a circle around him. I saw the same instructor later use body language alone to get a girl to ditch the guy she was with on the dance floor and come to him. And (no offense) but he is no Abercrombie model. Simply put, the instructors showed that they had the skills themselves and had a lot to teach.

Regarding Adam, it is true that he does not demo, out of respect for his wife. But, if you think that means he is not extremely involved in the bootcamp, you are sorely mistaken. My roommate (who was not on the bootcamp) showed up at the club too. After we got home, he pointed something out to me. Even though he always had 2 or 3 people talking to him, he constantly was watching me out of the corner of his eye during my interactions with girls. He specifically commented that in one interaction he saw Adam look at me about 6-7 times. And each time that I thought something was going wrong, all I did was come back to Adam and he told me subtle things to change and my results improved dramatically.

The one thing that I might say is that this bootcamp isn't for everyone. But, not because it is hackneyed or because the guys you will be dealing with are nerds, etc. Just the opposite, if you have never gamed before, or are just starting out, it is a LOT of information to absorb in just 1 weekend. Personally, I think the course could be expanded a lot and slowed down for beginners, because it is very difficult to go from zero to hero in a weekend. I think that if anyone got frustrated during the course, it was probably because they couldn't put the principles into practice that fast. But, this takes time and dedication. You can't have Michael Jordan teach a camp for a weekend and get upset that you couldn't join the NBA at the end of it. But, if you have read a lot, tried things out on your own, but have never been able to figure out what your specific problems are, then this course would be EXACTLY what you need.

Now, let me address some specific points that you (Chicagoboy) brought up:

1) You complain about the lack of a conference room. This is a matter of personal preference. For me, the environment of the lecture is not nearly as important as the environment of the field nights, and I would rather them find a cheap convenient area to teach in than shell out extra money for a venue that is then built in to the cost of my bootcamp. My legs are longer than yours and I was fine on those couches, but that is a matter of personal preference.

2) "Adam was largely nowhere to be seen for the bulk of the bootcamp". I'm not sure what you are talking about. Adam didn't teach all of the lectures, but they had a strict syllabus with modules to adhere to. Personally, if Adam had taught all of the lectures, I might have had more doubts about Amanda, Luke, or Pysch's knowledge. If you want Adam to do every single lecture, I'm sure he would, but there would be a trade-off there of not having different instructors' perspectives. During the field nights, Adam actually stayed 2 hours AFTER he was scheduled to go home, to make sure we had quality education. I was really surprised by that, because I've seen his travel schedule and I don't envy his late nights/travel dates.

3) You voice extreme doubts about Luke's personal transformation. To be fair, I think this is partly just your skeptical nature about everything. (Be honest, you were more suspicious than anyone else of everything from the beginning, even going so far as to suggest that the women in the club were "plants") Looking at Luke, everyone can see that he is not the most physically stunning man in the world. But, girls adore him. Why? Your answer is that he already had outstanding social skills and that he and Adam have concocted a lie about how horrible he was when he did his bootcamp. While I can't contradict this, I can say from my personal experience that game is a powerful thing. I have gone from having the first girl I ever asked out telling me that it was ridiculous for me to even think she'd go out with her all the way to dating runway models. I do think Luke probably had the potential within him to be a rock star, but based on talking to him, it was 50% Adam's system and 50% his meticulous and methodical dedication to game (to the point of drawing up flow charts and creating elaborate spreadsheets on his results) that made him what he is today. In any case, the argument is academic. What are you trying to prove by claiming that Luke was actually better than he claims at the beginning? (Didn't you claim in your post that you were better than some of these average nerds and didn't need the basics anyway?)

4) Adam said, "The way we do it, is we don't want to hear about what another company says about how to pick up girls, or make comparisons to other PUA's or anything like that." I think you heard the words but totally missed the point on this one. Adam was saying this not to dismiss anyone of his students' personal style or method, but just because there was a limited time over this weekend, and he didn't want anyone missing the critical teaching points that he was trying to get across and into practice with all the students, simply because some student keeps asking "Tell me again whether this contradicts Mystery's Neg Theory" In the field, Adam gave specific instructions based on his theory and training but he also seemed extremely interested in the results of his students, which is tough to maintain, given the wide variety of experience and previous study in the class. (I know from having taught mathematics, that it is extremely difficult to get a wide range of students all on the same page, so my hat's off to him.)

5) Regarding the video, again the point (as I saw it) was to give you a glimpse of what his life was like before marriage. I think it's admirable to see a PUA in a happy relationship, where he actually respects his wife. I think that many PUA's really desire that but haven't been able to achieve it, and many more students just want a really hot girlfriend. That's what Adam has and you can see that. He doesn't need to demo on girls when he's got 2 other instructors more than willing to do that. The video was just to show you a taste of what his life was like before. If that was off-putting to you, then that's your right but it only occupied about 2 minutes of our weekend.

6) I don't recall the 1-on-1 claim that Adam made, but perhaps he did so I won't dispute it. What I can say is that with me (and others that I saw, including you) he gave specific instruction on sticking points in the club itself (where it was most needed). Many times, he pulled me out to the bathroom to explain a concept in detail or give me another method to try. If you really felt like he wasn't giving you enough personal attention, did you ever mention it to him?

7) I don't know anything about claims about NLP or girls on doors, because I didn't base my decision this. Perhaps PUA Training's marketing dept. should look into this.

8) Repackaged Neil Strauss/Mystery stuff? One of the things that made Adam's course so appealing is that it is a whole different theory. If you didn't catch it during the lecture, there is a sharp division between Mystery/everyone else and Adam's theory. Forgive me if I get the technical term wrong, but it's basically "Value-based Attraction Theory" vs. "Investment-based Attraction Theory". Mystery, etc. teaches that you have to get a girl to assess you as higher value to attract her, and Adam teaches that you have to get a girl to invest in you to attract her. I'm not going to comment about the theories any further because I'm not an expert, but I've seen the results of former MM students using Adam's game, and it's impressive.

9) You mention that the instructors didn't teach. I wasn't with you every moment, but I do recall at least once during daygame where Luke told you to keep working on a group and you refused, arguing that "I know Asian culture and they don't like their personal space being invaded". Two things: a) you can't blame the teacher if you don't follow their instructions. I mean would you argue w/ Phil Jackson that you know this defense better than he does so you won't run his play? and b) I lived in Taiwan for 2 yrs. and have picked up girls in China, Korea, Vietnam, and Hong Kong, so I feel confident telling you that you were being closed-minded about that set. Besides, you don't have to start by "hitting on" every set. Why couldn't you just brighten their day with fun conversation? Honestly, your attitude that day actually was having a negative effect on MY game. And, maybe when I wasn't listening the instructors didn't offer you advice, but particularly during daygame, Luke gave explicit breakdowns of successful and unsucessful interactions and I saw you listening to it. (Adam and Psych did the same thing for night game, but maybe you couldn't hear it in the club.) One of the things I loved about this camp was the specific feedback after bad AND good interactions.

10) You mention in the same breath that girls were unreceptive and instructors were being blown out (which I did not see) while you were convinced that they had hired "plants" to be more receptive in the club. Honestly, this was the oddest conspiracy theory you had. It doesn't even make logical sense. Even if they had the time and money to hire women beforehand to show up at the club, why wouldn't everyone have gotten a kiss-close then? I told you that night, and I'll tell you again, this theory is just your imagination getting the best of you.

11) Alcohol vs. Red-bull? Pick your poison. If you don't like the rules of the camp then tough. If coach tells you no partying the night before a big game, you just do it. I don't think anyone else had a problem with this rule. I can tell you from my other bootcamp, that the alcohol really impaired my game over the course of the night and the instructors suggested I go without on my last field night. During Adam's camp, I ended up ordering multiple sprites from the bartender and tipping her well, without harming my wallet. To take care of me, she actually brought a model friend of hers over to meet me at the bar, and I k-closed her. Unless she was a "plant" who was in cahoots with the bartender, I have Sprite and the no-alcohol policy to thank for that :)

12) Regarding instructors getting blown out, although I didn't see it, of course it probably happened some times. But remember, even Michael Jordan doesn't score 100% or even 50% of the time. It doesn't mean he isn't better than all the average players out there. And I can guarantee if you model his form, your jump shot will improve. Honestly, if Adam or any of the instructors (or Mystery or Style for that matter) NEVER got blown out, I'd be more suspicious that there were "plants" in the room. Much to my chagrin, I've come to the conclusion that not every girl in the world can be picked up. But, I also saw 3 guys last week that have a MUCH higher probability of doing it successfully than you or I, and those are the people I'd like to model.

13) A word about AFC questions. One thing I noticed about you was poor body language. (Not to say that mine is perfect by any means.) And if you learned anything from the bootcamp you should have learned that body language trumps verbal language every time. The verbal language can help but you need to correct the body language first. And I think you were focusing more on them not putting words in your mouth rather than them telling you how to stand, walk, interact, etc. I can't say for sure, because I wasn't watching you the whole time, but I didn't get the feeling that they were throwing me to the wolves unprepared at all. They DID give me openers whenever I asked for them, even elaborate ones. But, I also came there with a lot more receptiveness to be taught. Remember that when Adam asked if anyone didn't wanted to be pushed to K-close on night 2, you raised your hand? That's fair, but if you're not willing to push your own boundaries, you can't put all that on your teacher. And for the record, I counted every student number closed on night 1. That may not seem like a lot, but considering some people may have zero experience I think it's a good start. Adam said his next target is to have everyone kiss close by day 2 of his bootcamps. I think 1/3 of the guys did that on ours. But, you have to factor in students like you, who don't want that to be a goal. I counted 4 guys (out of 11) got laid by the end of the camp. Some (like me) couldn't realistically do that for logistical reasons, but I wasn't doubtful that I could if I wanted to. If he ever got to the point where he could guarantee f-closes after a weekend, he could probably charge $10,000 a student and still have takers.

14) The quality of girls at the club. I don't know what your tastes are, but I prefer runway models, and I saw plenty of talent at that club both nights. Hell, the first night there WERE runway models there, naked and covered with sushi. We can argue the point if you want, but if you say there wasn't talent there, you have a unique sense of beauty. (I'd be interested to hear what the other guys in the class thought about this, though, as I know at least 2 other students who had the same assessment as me.) When you're not having a good night, it's easy to make excuses. There's too many dudes here. The girls aren't hot. No one's single, etc. But, that's not what I saw.

15) About the money, Adam went out of his way to make the point that he is the instructor, not the businessman, and that he wants to see everyone succeed and doesn't want to anyone to go into the poorhouse for this knowledge. He also clearly said during the course that everyone has a money-back guarantee, and that includes you, bro. He came off as much more genuine than some of the other PUA instructors/businessmen that have tried to cajole me into taking their course.

16) You said most of these guys were "major nerds". I don't know what to tell you. I already said that someone with zero experience or study might have trouble absorbing all of this. Perhaps you do have a lot of experience and can get "10 phone numbers a night" but some of those same nerdy, techy guys got better results with the game they were taught that weekend. (One even got on the Real World because of the girl he was successfully hitting on, if you recall.) If you are completely resistant to being taught or following instructions, than it doesn't matter how good your game is, it definitely won't improve.

In conclusion, this may sound like an super-positive review of this bootcamp, and it is. I'm not going to lie. I have been to 3 bootcamps, with 3 companies, and this one was by far the best. It literally blew me away with the content and the quality of teaching. I wasn't planning on posting here right away, because I'm on vacation with my family, and i have little time with them. (My mom is upset with me right now for spending the last 30 min. writing this.) But, after reading ChicagoBoy's harsh review of a bootcamp that I attended I felt compelled to write a response. I think I literally had exactly the opposite reaction as he did to the same people and events. I'd really enjoy hearing what other camp participants felt to find out if in fact I was "drinking the same Kool Aid" too and maybe no one else had the amazing experience that I did. And Chicagoboy, I would encourage you to contact Adam and either work with him to correct whatever went wrong, or maybe just ask for your money back. After all, you can't get blood from a stone.


Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:21 pm 
Offline
New to MPUA Forum

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:53 pm
Posts: 1
I'll keep this short, as srikbe did a pretty good job of summing everything up.

I was at the DC bootcamp as well. I'm actually the underage person ChicagoBoy mentioned in his rant. Regarding that, I was the only underage person there and it was due to a mistake on their website. I'm 20 years old, and it says you must be 18 or older on the site because the drinking age in the UK is 18 and I guess they forgot to change it for the US bootcamps. I asked Adam about this afterwards and he said that you must be 21 to participate in US bootcamps. It worked out anyway though, because the venue I could get into was actually more interesting and target-rich anyway.

Several other points:
- Adam did take breaks during the day to give other instructors a chance to lecture, but I wouldn't come close to saying he was MIA most of the time. I found this kept things interesting and I appreciated the alternative point of views. The other instructors were very helpful and knowledgeable, and definitely knew what they were talking about (as shown in their demos during night game).
- Adam, Luke, Jarrett, and Amanda were all super friendly and helpful to me in the field. After most of my approaches I would come back to Adam for advice and he would always have suggestions.
- This was the first bootcamp they've ever had in DC, so their venue choice probably wasn't the best, but it was still a pretty cool place with a lot of hot girls. If you thought they weren't hot enough or they were too mean then I'm sorry but that's your problem and shouldn't be reflected in a bootcamp review.
- Ripped of Mystery method? Hardly. Yes there are some overlapping concepts, but that's just the nature of human interaction. You don't have to be some cocky-funny peacocking douchebag to pick up girls, you can just be yourself, which is what I really like about Adam's method and why I signed up.
- Major nerds and socially awkward? What the fuck? Isn't that the point? What do you expect when you attend a bootcamp on how to talk to girls? Actually I found most of the guys there pretty easy to talk to, and I was actually surprised by how normal most of them were. They all had social lives and could keep a conversation. If you're brilliant and socially adept then why did you signup in the first place? Your arrogance and judgmental attitude is bullshit. No wonder you didn't have a good time.

In the end bootcamps are what you make of them. If you have a cynical, judgmental attitude from the beginning then you're not going to enjoy it. I had a great time and I feel like I opened up a lot in just a couple days because of the help I got. I didn't get laid during the bootcamp, but a week later I did for the first time in over a year, multiple times. I give a lot of the credit to Adam and the other instructors.


Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:15 pm 
Offline
New to MPUA Forum

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:45 pm
Posts: 1
Well basically cygni and srikbe and skribe really have summed it up about the DC bootcamp. It was an amazing time and all the instructors are great and know so much. I should know cause I was one of the bros who enjoyed it so much I traveled to NYC for the bootcamp there. In fact that's what this post is about.
Adam was more than welcome to let me attend my 3rd bootcamp in a row without question. The seminar was great and as went for live field training, all of the instructors were doing their best to help the guys get #s or get laid or both. And as for Adam not helping 1 on 1......that is a load of cockamamie bullshit because I know for a fact Adam stayed with one of the bras until near closing time helping and pushing that good sir. Even during day game, when students did not get what they wanted, Adam would make the instructors go and work with the students until get got the results (insta-dates, numbers, whatever). I myself within a week have seen massive improvements just by hanging around the guys. It really is a shame that Chicago Boy had a terrible experience but this does not come over night and even I am still trying to figure things out. As for the other instructors, if you had any doubt about the abilities, then New York was the place to be because one of the instructions by the end of the night was making out with one of the hottest girls in the bar while the birthday girl lost her purse. But again, even if you did not get the experience you wanted, then Adam prefers you talk to him about it and not just bitch and moan afterwards. Anyways, I hope this post is helpful and gives a little more insight on AFC Adam and his crew.


Top
   
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:22 pm 
Offline
New to MPUA Forum

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:02 am
Posts: 4
well it seems everybody at the dc bootcamp was satisfied, so was I. I will keep this simple as the others have touched on everything with regards to the bootcamp, and i dont want to sound repetative.

This was my first bootcamp, i thought it was an overall positive experience. The interaction of man and woman has been around for thousands of years, and there are many ways to get a woman of your dreams, just as there are many different personalities. Hence there are many different ways/types of game out there. Just as when studying for a standarized test (sat, mcat, lsat, etc..), you have different companies that would promise you great scores but you have to put in your work. This is exactly the samething, adam will not bring a girl, undress her, spread her legs for you, pick you up, and then finally insert your dick in her vagina. 2 reasons, 1) id think any sane man would charge more that what was paid for the course, 2) thats just fuckin weird. Point is, i really think that you should be more proactive as far as what you want to accomplish, and stop blaming people for your lack of success.

They funny thing the concept to get pussy is clear, "have balls". Adam's teachings, would only filter your patchy rough game, and turn it into a smooth greek sculpture. But then again, i would agree with you if you say his game isnt your style, you may just need to look around for other MPUA's see their styles, then go for one. Perhaps, you'd be more interested wearing feathered hats, and carrying a bag of cards, or maybe using vocal anchors, or whatever. Ofcourse this applies to everyone.

I really dont mean to attack anyone, but you just have to put the time in the field bro, use the teachings you learned, see what works what doesnt and make your own philasophy. Not everything adam said will work for you, but he gave you ideas of how you could improve your game, and i think thats the best value of the money.


Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 20 posts ] 

All times are UTC


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Can we be honest?

We want your email address. Let me send you the best seduction techniques ever devised... because they are really good.
close-link