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L.A. Tripp
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 Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:33 am Post subject: True Alpha versus Fake Alpha |
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Ok, since there is much discussion and disagreement and misunderstanding about this subject, I thought it would be good to start a thread to help distinguish the differences between what a true alpha is and what a fake, or overcompensating alpha is.
True alpha:
Confident in yourself.
Able to look others directly in the eyes w/o fear.
Able to talk to others on ranging topics.
Able to be in someone's personal space w/o them feeling threatened.
Able to lead others.
Makes other feel good about themselves.
Overcompensating alpha:
Insecure in yourself, trying to appear confident by pushing people around.
Have a hard time maintaining normal eye contact. Feels threatened if someone keeps EC too long.
Gets irritated easily.
Trouble having others follow WILLINGLY.
Others usually feel better when the overcompensating alpha is gone, calling him a jerk or worse.
Now, others feel free to add more to this list so we can fill it out more. |
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Rye Lee
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:38 am Post subject: |
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True Alpha:
-Can comment on things around without sounding negative
Overcompensating Alpha:
-Insults people and things around and offends |
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3 hands
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:43 am Post subject: |
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A true alpha can feel ''at home'' in any place
A fake alpha tries to always push people to places he feels ''at home'' at
Damn, thought i'd say something I havn't said before but it's basically just a merge of 2 charactaristics  just use it if you find it good enough |
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Methuselah
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:17 am Post subject: |
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Alot of people are confident in themselves, that doesn't mean they're an alpha personality. For example, person A can be confident in himself, but be completely incompetent, this person is obviously not an alpha personality. Alpha characteristics come from proven ability, not the confidence in yourself to do something. Sure, those with Alpha characterisitcs will be confident, but it isn't a defining characteristic.
Just because you can look someone directly in the eyes without fear doesn't mean your an alpha personality. There are plenty of people who don't have a strong personality that will look you directly in the eyes while in conversation. Once again, not a definining characteristic.
Being able to talk to anyone on a variety of subjects is a characterisitic of being a well-rounded, intellectual, and open-minded person. People of all personalities can do this. Once again, not a defining characteristic.
I don't understand what you mean about being able to be in someones personal space w/out them feeling threatened. I don't see why that would make a difference. Maybe I'm reading it wrong or it needs to be reworded.
The ability to lead is certainly a defining characteristic of an Alpha personality. Out of all of them, it may be the one of utmost importance. In packs and groups of animals/humans Alpha-male or female is THE LEADER of the group.
The ability to make people feel good about themselves, I don't think so. Anyone can make someone feel better. Perhaps instead, it is the ability to make people feel good about themselves indirectly, by them just being associated with you. That sounds more likely.
What you have to remember is this, there is not one type of alpha personality. There are ass-holes, highly respected, highly feared, extremely smart, extremely strong, very vocal, very friendly, and a variety of other sub-categories of alpha personalities. Some of them get irritable, some are very calm. Some are very hostile, some are very peaceful. And so on.
Fake Alpha = Anyone who excessively talks or studies about 'being alpha'
Once again, an Alpha personality is one that is proven to be capable and effective at a range of different skill sets. One who acheives it by being themselves, not worrying about others opinions, and who naturally radiates with excellence.
Last edited by Methuselah on Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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~Flight~
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| Methuselah wrote: | Alot of people are confident in themselves, that doesn't mean their an alpha personality. For example, person A can be confident in himself, but be completely incompetent, this person is obviously not an alpha personality. Alpha characteristics come from proven ability, not the confidence in yourself to do something. Sure, those with Alpha characterisitcs will be confident, but it isn't a defining characteristic.
Just because you can look someone directly in the eyes without fear doesn't mean your an alpha personality. There are plenty of people who don't have a strong personality that will look you directly in the eyes while in conversation. Once again, not a definining characteristic.
Being able to talk to anyone on a variety of subjects is a characterisitic of being a well-rounded, intellectual, and open-minded person. People of all personalities can do this. Once again, not a defining characteristic.
I don't understand what you mean about being able to be in someones personal space w/out them feeling threatened. I don't see why that would make a difference. Maybe I'm reading it wrong or it needs to be reworded.
The ability to lead is certainly a defining characteristic of an Alpha personality. Out of all of them, it may be the one of utmost importance. In packs and groups of animals/humans Alpha-male or female is THE LEADER of the group.
The ability to make people feel good about themselves, I don't think so. Anyone can make someone feel better. Perhaps instead, it is the ability to make people feel good about themselves indirectly, by them just being associated with you. That sounds more likely.
What you have to remember is this, there is not one type of alpha personality. There are ass-holes, highly respected, highly feared, extremely smart, extremely strong, very vocal, very friendly, and a variety of other sub-categories of alpha personalities. Some of them get irritable, some are very calm. Some are very hostile, some are very peaceful. And so on.
Fake Alpha = Anyone who excessively talks or studies about 'being alpha'
Once again, an Alpha personality is one that is proven to be capable and effective at a range of different skill sets. One who acheives it by being themselves, not worrying about others opinions, and who naturally radiates with excellence. |
i agree with everything you say here, but i believe that the point is that they all come together in order to form alpha, and no one trait makes them alpha, the individual has to have them all. |
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Starbuck
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:44 am Post subject: |
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There are as many definitions of what an Alpha is or isn't as their are stars in the sky. And many of them are dead wrong, or just overcompensation for deep seated feelings of insecurity or inferiority.
A true Alpha in the human sense is independent in personality and in mentality. He doesn't need to depend upon others to define him. Nor does he need to walk upon others, or denigrate others to prove anything. He's secure in his knowledge of who he is and is prepared to deal appropriately with any conceivable situation.
Whether others choose to follow him or not is their choice entirely. An true Alpha is not defined by what others choose to do, he is defined by what he does.
He's a man of standards, accountability and character. And this is instantly noticeable. Some react to him with envy, others with respect. Regardless, what others think about him doesn't change his behavior in the least. He doesn't require their approval to exist or to thrive.
Ever heard the old saying, lead, follow or get the hell out of the way? The Alpha leads. This often brings out the worst in fake Alphas or betas, who will try any tactic to try to bring him down to their level.
He's also kind to children and other things smaller than himself. He's not insecure in the least. |
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The Wild One
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah this is why many guys are here. To learn man lessons in life dealing with these crazy mixed up emotional creatures called women. Yeah you've got the right idea about being an alpha man! Good outlook. |
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L.A. Tripp
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:33 am Post subject: |
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LOL . . . I just love how some people's posts get personal.
And, thanks Starbuck. That's excellent wording. While my post didn't come across that way, what you said is basically what I was trying to actually get across lol.
| Starbuck wrote: | | Ever heard the old saying, lead, follow or get the hell out of the way? The Alpha leads. This often brings out the worst in fake Alphas or betas, who will try any tactic to try to bring him down to their level. |
Maybe that's why daily life can be so messed up, lol. |
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Rye Lee
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| I've discovered that sometimes being truly Alpha means that you can just step back and wait while other people try to start problems and they end up doing all your work for you. Sometimes you can let people make their attempt at getting a girl and if you've done well up until then and the guy comes off like a jerk, then the girl will reject whatever that guy is saying anyways and you don't really have to defend yourself. |
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Ka
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| Methuselah wrote: | | Alot of people are confident in themselves, that doesn't mean they're an alpha personality. For example, person A can be confident in himself, but be completely incompetent, this person is obviously not an alpha personality... |
I think LA means all around confidence, people can be confident in their comfort zone, that doesnt make them confident persons. Also there is little to no correlation between confidence and competence. You could be incompetent in regards to responsibilities and still be confident.
| Methuselah wrote: | | Just because you can look someone directly in the eyes without fear doesn't mean your an alpha personality. There are plenty of people who don't have a strong personality that will look you directly in the eyes while in conversation. Once again, not a definining characteristic. |
In a short term i agree with you, however on the other persons part they would be making a consious effort to not look away. An Alpha personallity would make EC with everyone, on a regular basis, and never feel inclined even subconsiously to look away. For an Alpha it would be natural for them to make EC.
| Methuselah wrote: | | Being able to talk to anyone on a variety of subjects is a characterisitic of being a well-rounded, intellectual, and open-minded person. People of all personalities can do this. Once again, not a defining characteristic. |
While it may not be the most important characteristic, i beleive it is one. Being able to connect with people and communicate clearly to them, is alpha. You can have all the personality traits you described, i would say people who know me consider me to be all those, however one of my stickying points is conversational. I am working heavily on being able to do this.
| Methuselah wrote: | | I don't understand what you mean about being able to be in someones personal space w/out them feeling threatened. I don't see why that would make a difference. Maybe I'm reading it wrong or it needs to be reworded. |
I think LA means things like kino, close proximity. If you are not really alpha, but are fakeing it, you would still cause the "invadeing personal space" alarm to go off on the people around you.
| Methuselah wrote: | | The ability to lead is certainly a defining characteristic of an Alpha personality. Out of all of them, it may be the one of utmost importance. In packs and groups of animals/humans Alpha-male or female is THE LEADER of the group. |
I agree 100% with you here, this is probably the most important trait. I would think however that it is contingent on almost all the others listed. There is also a difference between naturally leading and forcing people to follow.
| Methuselah wrote: | | The ability to make people feel good about themselves, I don't think so. Anyone can make someone feel better. Perhaps instead, it is the ability to make people feel good about themselves indirectly, by them just being associated with you. That sounds more likely. |
I dont agree with that at all. People could feel good about being around you because of your social status, or because you in some way make them look better. (think the hot chick who always has a fat friend, the fat chick isnt alpha). I think this trait is that you make people feel good in a general sence, when they leave your company they want to see you/be with you again. I have a friend who is a natural, he is extremely good at this, without really doing anything. He asks you to do things for him and makes you feel good about doing it, wereas if anyone else asked you you would tell them to screw themselves.
| Methuselah wrote: | What you have to remember is this, there is not one type of alpha personality. There are ass-holes, highly respected, highly feared, extremely smart, extremely strong, very vocal, very friendly, and a variety of other sub-categories of alpha personalities. Some of them get irritable, some are very calm. Some are very hostile, some are very peaceful. And so on.
Fake Alpha = Anyone who excessively talks or studies about 'being alpha'
Once again, an Alpha personality is one that is proven to be capable and effective at a range of different skill sets. One who acheives it by being themselves, not worrying about others opinions, and who naturally radiates with excellence. |
I kinda of agree with this. There are definatly different types of Alpha's, however i think the type we try to emulate (and later become) are the positive, socially outgoing kind. I definatly do not agree with your definition of a fake alpha, otherwise the vast majority of the PUA community would be fake alpha's. I think up until you embody all the traits listed you are not really alpha, i would even go as far as saying that the real test would be the leader of the group trait. Since i feel this trait hinges on the other traits, it is probably a good indicator of your status as an alpha. Of course your ability to replicate this status in any group you are in is another indicator. |
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Muse
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:15 am Post subject: |
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I think Starbuck put it best.
The definition of Alpha to me is all about the mindset, it's not about the little specific details. Those details come with the attitude, outlook, and personality of the person.
~Muse |
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Starbuck
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Ka wrote: |
I think LA means all around confidence, people can be confident in their comfort zone, that doesnt make them confident persons. Also there is little to no correlation between confidence and competence. You could be incompetent in regards to responsibilities and still be confident. |
In my view one can't be incompetent and truly confident at the same time. Those excellent Royal bank of Scotland commercials are an excellent example.
Of course confidence, being an Alpha quality can be faked.
And plenty of the people in the choir don't seem to know the difference in their zeal to follow anybody, and anything they deem greater than themselves.. |
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BlackBull
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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In a simpler sense, that is part of a whole:
Alpha= Being yourself, in the best way possible, taking advantage of your abilities
Overcompensating alpha= Not being yourself, and not making an effort to improve.
Fake Alpha= Trying to be someone else.
Last edited by BlackBull on Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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L.A. Tripp
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| One question about that BlackBull. With the "overcompensating" . . . wouldn't that be "going overboard"? |
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BlackBull
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| L.A. Tripp wrote: | | One question about that BlackBull. With the "overcompensating" . . . wouldn't that be "going overboard"? |
Going overboard. No.
Overcompensating, yes.
Why do you ask? |
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