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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:03 pm 
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Posts: 32
I agree with Mack.
If there's any mental masturbation going on here its from those that are philosophizing about cause and effect. I mean sure, ultimately EVERYTHING is your own fault. Of course, I always take personal responsibility for allowing anyone to mistreat me, but that's exactly what Mack is doing:

He's recognizing that he has been mistreated.
He's correctly identifying the SOURCE of the relationship problems.
He's actively riding himself of this burden.


Saying that he's BLAMING the woman in question for his own faults is not only senseless, but its insensitive to someone that's just coming out of a relationship like that.
That's what she's probably been doing to him the whole time, and right now he needs to rebuild his personal sense of REALITY.


Also, about controlling love. Ummm, is this not a PUA forum? If you're not controlling love, then you're still using phrases like 'I got lucky'



Quote:
The main obstacle to becoming a seducer is this foolish prejudice we
have of seeing love and romance as some kind of sacred, magical realm
where things just fall into place, if they are meant to. This might seem ro-
mantic and quaint, but it is really just a cover for our laziness. What will se-
duce a person is the effort we expend on their behalf, showing how much
we care, how much they are worth. Leaving things to chance is a recipe for
disaster, and reveals that we do not take love and romance very seriously. It
was the effort Casanova expended, the artfulness he applied to each affair
that made him so devilishly seductive. Falling in love is a matter not of
magic but of psychology. Once you understand your target's psychology,
and strategize to suit it, you will be better able to cast a "magical" spell.
The Art of Seduction

The problem is not that these woman are trying to control love, its that they aren't doing anything useful or pleasant with the power that they have.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:28 pm 
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Thanks, GOK.

I have to admit after this has been posted for months and had productive conversation all thoughout, I was definitely surprised to see it resurrected with the spin that I found this morning.

Since a particular poster has decided that the topic of this thread should not be about understanding and dealing with women with histrionic and borderline personality disorders, and instead should be about analyzing what type of person I am and reducing me to a controlling, mental masturbator...I guess I will respond and clarify.

1. The relationship that caused me to write this article was one I had suffered through before even discovering the PUA community.

2. I was still very deeply in the grip of an AFC mentality, and when I got with this woman, I was only a year out of what basically amounts to a marriage of over a decade that ended very badly. In that year, I lost my family, my house, my job, and all my savings.

3. I met a woman who portrayed herself as an absolute angel. I bought it, hook, line, and sinker. She changed. (and I'm not talking typical "shit tests" and other "girl stuff" here). I am talking INSANITY.

4. The last 8 months of the entire 12 month relationship with this woman were a living hell. (Now, please keep in mind, I was in total AFC mindframe, and had no idea of how else to be)

5. Once it became apparent that I wasn't dealing with your run-of-the-mill "bitch", I decided to start doing some reading. Why? Because I wanted to make sure that I understood what was going on because I loved this woman, but her behavior was unacceptable. I didn't want to give up on her without at least trying. I read dozens and dozens of psychiatric articles and I found that she is a TEXTBOOK CASE of: histrionic/borderline. (Which, GOK, it sounds like you've lived this hell as well)

6. Around the same time I realized that I was dating a "mentally ill" and "incurably so" woman, was the time that I discovered this community, so I thought I would share my story, just in case another guy somewhere down the line found himself in the same position that I did. It was basically done as a public service, intended to save someone from going through what I did.

Now...

About me (since my motives and personality have been called into question)

1. I'm not a PUA, but I'm also not an AFC anymore, and that alone, makes me fucking ecstatic.

2. I'm not controlling, I hate control. I grew up in an abusive home being controlled by a domineering figure. If anything, I am TOO "Live-and-Let-Live" with my attitude. Not about control at all.

3. I'm most certainly not into mental masturbation. Meaning that I don't go over something over and over in my head to try to gain some sort of win or satisfaction. THE ONLY REASON I REVIEW WHAT I HAVE BEEN THROUGH IS TO LEARN FROM IT AND MOVE ON. Again, anyone who knows me, knows this about me.

The point is this...

On the internet it is all too easy to come into someone's thread and throw around false wide-sweeping statements about someone else's inner most workings, such as their justifications or weaknesses. Since I was psychoanalyzed and granted a "cold reading" by one such poster, I figured I would add my two cents about the real me.

_________________
what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:46 pm 
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Posts: 10
The thread was called Signs of a Emotionally Manipulative Woman.
Not don't fuck with people who will fuck back with you. Ha ha ha ha...

We all get what we need, what will make us better. Personally I don't bitch about others. I always look to myself and how I contributed to my situation. That's cool that your a NON controlling Zen Master.. You sound like a Narcissist to me.. (maybe that's why you know so much about hod's and bpd's. )

However read your very first post and see if it doesn't sound like your describing yourself.


My intention wasn't to put anyone down, actually it was to offer a actual solution. Some may have personality disorders and maybe that's why they stuck with assholes like us. Normal women may not.. unless they are very naive, and if so... then we just gave them a personality disorder..

Own up to it Mack! Man up!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 6:28 pm 
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Quote:
The thread was called Signs of a Emotionally Manipulative Woman.
Not don't fuck with people who will fuck back with you. Ha ha ha ha...

We all get what we need, what will make us better. Personally I don't bitch about others. I always look to myself and how I contributed to my situation. That's cool that your a NON controlling Zen Master.. You sound like a Narcissist to me.. (maybe that's why you know so much about hod's and bpd's. )

However read your very first post and see if it doesn't sound like your describing yourself.


My intention wasn't to put anyone down, actually it was to offer a actual solution. Some may have personality disorders and maybe that's why they stuck with assholes like us. Normal women may not.. unless they are very naive, and if so... then we just gave them a personality disorder..

Own up to it Mack! Man up!
To be truthful, I have no idea what you are talking about. First off, you are assuming that I was referring to you with my last post. Second, "emotional manipulation" or "emotionally manipulative" is virtually synonomous with histrionic disorder. Third, I have no idea what you are referring to when you say "don't fuck with people who will fuck back" (truly, that perplexes me). Fourth and finally, I have no idea where I would have given the impression that I am a narcissist. My signature says "Not a PUA". Does that sound like something a narcissist would say?

Also, I'm a fairly friendly person as many on this board would say I'm certain. I have no idea why you seem to have a "problem" with me.

What exactly would you like me to "man up"?

_________________
what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 6:53 pm 
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You posted 3 defensive ass posts after my first one. I only offer a different point of view. Everyone else is jumping on the wagon with you. Hey, I'm not saying your wrong and your evil. However it is wrong to point fingers when this whole forum is about how to manipulate women.

Now women who manipulate men are HPD or BPD.. I agree.
Men who manipulate women are not, the difference is, the men HIDE it, pretend it's not happening.. those are called NPD.

So go ahead deny it away...
Your first post stated very clearly you are posting this for AFC's who would more likely be in this situation, to offer your help, you being a MPUA. That's what you said, now I don't care either way, I wouldn't have even noticed unless you later denied it.

Glad your not so defensive suddenly. However I feel like I know you, and see a pattern. To be honest your woman may be HPD or whatever.. sounds like she's a tough case for sure. However there is always a way to handle anything and everything. You still do it respectfully and salvage your own soul since it may feel like to you, that it's on the line. (a guess)


Here is my boxes for Men.

1. AFC

2. PUA

3 ex AFC and ex PUA,


None is better than the other.. but like the last boxes I posted, these are also steps. step 1, 2 and 3.

Each step feels like the only one, the best one, however a step up feels exactly the same way.

Your still going through shit with the ex, so I offered my advice, because I don't think yours is even helping you. Not because I think your this or that. It's just a point of view from someone who has been through these steps and seen many others go through them.

The dude that keeps coming to your defense, he's a PUA all the way, so he's gonna defend you though he may not even care. Dasani... he also doesn't care, but he's beyond it all, been there done that, probably won't waste his time explaining things to those who aren't ready to hear it.
Wal.. I like Wal... again, maybe he can add some of this to his view, if it applies...

However if you really come from a enlightened view... then advise from a view of a woman you just met. Because I don't think you saw all these things in her from day 1. However there were red flags that maybe did not make sense at first.

I'm not going to argue. I was trying to have a actual conversation with those who wanted to avoid situations like this. That's all.
So if anyone actually wants to help themselves...
Let me know.


Last edited by Mirrors on Thu May 05, 2011 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:20 pm 
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See that's the problem, I personally don't believe in borderline personality disorder even if it is documented and other people approve of it. I just don't see it as being a legitimate disorder. I think it's more of a state of mind. We all show signs of "borderline personality disorder" it's just a really vague thing. I like that craziness in relationships where she ends up hitting you and slapping you and then you just grab her in and hold until she calms down. Does that mean she's crazy? Not at all. I'd blow up at her from time to time too.

I just think the following are fake:

-BPD
-Bipolar
-ADHD
-ADD
-Autism

Bipolar disorder for example. I'd have times being really happy with my ex and then I've had times when I'd be really mad at her and she'd have the same thing going on. Does that mean we're bipolar? Come on now. And I've seen some crazy shit between my parents too where I could easily fit them in that category.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:34 pm 
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Posts: 2702
Quote:
You posted 3 defensive ass posts after my first one. I only offer a different point of view. Everyone else is jumping on the wagon with you. Hey, I'm not saying your wrong and your evil. However it is wrong to point fingers when this whole forum is about how to manipulate women.

Defensive ass posts? All I did was answer your claims.

Now women who manipulate men are HPD or BPD.. I agree.
Men who manipulate women are not, the difference is, the men HIDE it, pretend it's not happening.. those are called NPD.

So go ahead deny it away...

Again, not sure what you claim I am denying.

Your first post stated very clearly you are posting this for AFC's who would more likely be in this situation, to offer your help, you being a MPUA. That's what you said, now I don't care either way, I wouldn't have even noticed unless you later denied it.

I never said I am an MPUA. That is a flat out lie. I am not sure what inspired you to seek my thread out and then plainly lie about my words, but I don't appreciate it. You can go back and check, you will see that what you just stated is either incorrect, a lie, or both!

Glad your not so defensive suddenly. However I feel like I know you, and see a pattern. To be honest your woman may be HPD or whatever.. sounds like she's a tough case for sure. However there is always a way to handle anything and everything. You still do it respectfully and salvage your own soul since it may feel like to you, that it's on the line. (a guess)

How am I "not defensively suddenly"? You just said I was defensive and now you claim I am not. This is all very hard to follow. I am not "being defensive", however, I am responding to your claims in "my own defense".

Are you suggesting that me reading and understanding the affliction that this girl had, and then gracefully exiting the relationship was "soulless"? That seems like a pretty bold statement when you have no idea what transpired between she and I except for the very few details I shared in this thread.


Here is my boxes for Men.

1. AFC

2. PUA

3 ex AFC and ex PUA,


Wow, that's deep! Been working on that theory long?


None is better than the other.. but like the last boxes I posted, these are also steps. step 1, 2 and 3.

Each step feels like the only one, the best one, however a step up feels exactly the same way.

Your still going through shit with the ex, so I offered my advice, because I don't think yours is even helping you. Not because I think your this or that. It's just a point of view from someone who has been through these steps and seen many others go through them.

You just said:

1. "Your still going through shit with the ex" - No, I'm not, we haven't spoken in days.

2. "My own advice isn't helping me" - What does that even mean? How does one give himself advice?

3. "It just comes from the view of someone who has been through these steps and seen many others go through them" - Are you saying you've dated a woman with histrionic/borderline personality disorder? What exactly do you mean?


The dude that keeps coming to your defense, he's a PUA all the way, so he's gonna defend you though he may not even care. Chris... he also doesn't care, but he's beyond it all, been there done that, probably won't waste his time explaining things to those who aren't ready to hear it.

GreenOrgyKing isn't "coming to my defense", he is just sharing his opinion. All he said is that he agrees with me. Is he not allowed to do that? That makes him "defensive" too? Maybe if you have two people in one thread who claim to have dated histrionic women (myself and greenorgyking) who both agree and confirm what the other is saying...maybe...just maybe...it's because we actually know what we are talking about. Is that possible?

Wal.. I like Wal... again, maybe he can add some of this to his view, if it applies...

However if you really come from a enlightened view... then advise from a view of a woman you just met. Because I don't think you saw all these things in her from day 1. However there were red flags that maybe did not make sense at first.

What? That sentence was even grammatically understandable? I would answer it, if it actually made any sense.

I'm not going to argue. I was trying to have a actual conversation with those who wanted to avoid situations like this. That's all.

So if anyone actually wants to help themselves...
Let me know.

I'm sure there will be a line of people from here to eternity waiting for your special brand of "help".

_________________
what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!


Last edited by Mack 2.0 on Thu May 05, 2011 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:36 pm 
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Quote:
I just think the following are fake:

-BPD
-Bipolar
-ADHD
-ADD
-Autism
That's fine. You are entitled to your opinion. However, many professionals in that trade (psychology, psychiatry, medicine) would disagree with you.

Also, on a personal note, I have a very close family member who has had a legitimate case of bipolar disorder his entire life. So, I will exercise my opinion to believe in those things that I experience in life.

Just like you "know" those things are fake.

I "know" that histrionic is not.

Presents quite an impasse, except for the part where the vast majority of the medical establishment agrees with me.

_________________
what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:40 pm 
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Ha ha...
The pattern..

Fight, then defend, then retreat....
just to come back and fight...


That's the pattern you take with women...

I'm going to respond.. and your ass is gonna be feeling fucking stupid.

lolololo


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:45 pm 
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I forgot to mention,
name call and put downs...

When nothing else fails, deny and make fun of....
in a long dragged out pointless post.


Man up means be straight and real, honest and clean.
That's a real man, and I don't mean say you are these things to us,
or others, but take the actions in your own life.


YOur not a controlling person, yet, you have tried to control this thread. calling people trolls when things did not go the way you intended them to go. No one put YOU down directly, but you took all of it personal.

BTW, this isn't my actual response to your long empty post directed to me...


Peace! I got a life, I'll get back to yours later.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:50 pm 
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Quote:
I forgot to mention,
name call and put downs...

When nothing else fails, deny and make fun of....
in a long dragged out pointless post.


Man up means be straight and real, honest and clean.
That's a real man, and I don't mean say you are these things to us,
or others, but take the actions in your own life.


YOur not a controlling person, yet, you have tried to control this thread. calling people trolls when things did not go the way you intended them to go. No one put YOU down directly, but you took all of it personal.

BTW, this isn't my actual response to your long empty post directed to me...


Peace! I got a life, I'll get back to yours later.
You can do and say whatever you'd like to.

Up to this point, I am just discussing with you. I haven't called names. I haven't sworn at you. I haven't attacked you personally. I am simply discussing your claims, most of which are confused and baseless.

You can come back and post whatever you'd like, but if you think I'm going to be baited into some sort of flame war with you, you need to think again. I have no interest in discussing ANYTHING with you any further.

Nothing you've said takes away any of the validity in this thread. I am proud that I wrote it and I hope it helps people who may find themselves in the same situation that I did.

Good luck to you in life. Come back and with your "argument" if you want to. You'll be arguing with your echo as I won't respond again.

_________________
what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 11:03 pm 
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HAHAHAHA Mirrors you are hilarious.
You're Mack's gf aren't you?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 11:11 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
I just think the following are fake:

-BPD
-Bipolar
-ADHD
-ADD
-Autism
That's fine. You are entitled to your opinion. However, many professionals in that trade (psychology, psychiatry, medicine) would disagree with you.

Also, on a personal note, I have a very close family member who has had a legitimate case of bipolar disorder his entire life. So, I will exercise my opinion to believe in those things that I experience in life.

Just like you "know" those things are fake.

I "know" that histrionic is not.

Presents quite an impasse, except for the part where the vast majority of the medical establishment agrees with me.
Hey, I completely understand where you're coming from. I believe in certain elements from psychology and psychiatry myself like neurotransmitters, perception and whatnot. It's just that when it comes to studying the human mind, some of it can be over analytical in cases that don't seem like a big deal like being hyper and then classying that person with having ADHD or something. Shit, and psychiatry with all the pills can actually mess with a person's head more than it needs to.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 12:36 am 
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Exactly.. GreenOrgy and Mack Daddy.... have nothing to add to actual thought out solutions that do not include blaming.

Your so very correct when you say I did not take any validity from your post.
You took it away from yourself by being defensive, putting words in my mouth and of course by putting my post down before this last one where suddenly now you are too big of a man to even respond to.

So far, no one has put much thought into anything other than D and Chris, and from other posts I've read, looks like no one validates those smart brothers much either.

Congratulations though, pushing others, blaming them and finally running away and giving up will ALWAYS be your destiny.
Remember that when you get off the computer and live it out in your every day life.

Don't think this means I don't like you, or I want beef. If I waste my time telling people the truth, it's because either I feel for their situation, or... I just plane respect them.

Nothing has changed.. not in my intention or in life.

I could keep laughing...but in all honesty it's really a shame.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 12:45 am 
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Quote:
HAHAHAHA Mirrors you are hilarious.
You're Mack's gf aren't you?
lol ... and *eek*

i honestly thought the same thing.

oh, pizza!

catch ya later :D

_________________
what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!


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