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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:06 am 
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Hey all. I've been reading for some time, and finally decided to post my situation here. Sorry if it's slightly long, i kinda poured out whatever was in my head.

I've been in a relationship of almost 1yr+ now.

She used to value our relationship a lot and really care for me, which I really enjoyed. (something like the orbit theory, which i understand isn't totally healthy and we should all have some balance)

To cut a long story short, I've cheated on her, once, more than half a year ago. I know, once a cheater always a cheater, right? She allowed it to pass, but she's never formally forgiven me, and I feel that inside her she still grudges it. I understand it takes time, which I am more than willing to give. I've grown to be really serious about this, and I've resolved never to do it to her anymore. Other than that, there has been much dissent as well. I tend to be self-centered, and often she says I'm not considerate enough for her and I do not think from her side as much as I should.

I told her I'll change, and have been trying. However, in the last two months, things have been weird between us. I feel that she doesn't see the value in this relationship anymore. It's almost as if she's given up (the balance has swung to the other side, she's found herself a new job, she's been hanging out with her friends, our sex life has deteriorated to basically almost nothing)

I've learnt that she has been considering a break up for some time, and there's nothing really stopping her from doing so, she's just putting it off for some time to in a way give me a little chance, since she has nothing to lose from hanging around a little more. She's also been flirting with one or two guys (one of which is her ex), but as far as i know they haven't done anything.

We still have good days, but it's hard cos her job has long hours, so we barely hang out.

So I have a variety of questions I'd like input on:

How can I help her get over the cheating incident, i.e. regain her trust.

I understand I have problems. I need to be more of a man, be more confident, and regain her trust and interest in this relationship, at the same time being a good boyfriend to her. I want to and am willing to work for all these. How can I ensure it happens, while making sure she sees it?

How can I, given the circumstances, create value in our relationship? (I understand I can't make her feel it's valuable, I have to actually create the value.)

How can I manage my own insecurities with 'letting her go'? (being a cheater, i often tend to think the worst of situations, which although logically i know isn't the best thing to do, happens)

Don't worry I can take harsh advice, so just let it rip. I understand that anything I do do salvage/fix this situation is on my part, and if she doesn't reciprocate I can't do anything. I try not to let that bother me. I just want to come out of this knowing I put in everything I could. So whether it ends up being favorable or not, I can really say "at least I tried".


Please don't ask me to simply ditch her. I feel that 1. both of us have put too much into this to give up. 2. she's really the girl i want in my life (she has many unique ways of thinking that i really feel no other girl has)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:04 pm 
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I think you're in a fairly good position. Seems like even though this relationship is getting ready to die, there's still some normalcy and respect.

From what you wrote, I'm not entirely convinced that your cheating is that big an issue for her. Fact is, if I was to guess, it seems like it's a bigger issue for you. That's a good thing, shows you're a good guy. I mean, does she bring it up? If it was that big of an issue for her, I promise you, she'd be bringing up, especially during fights.

If she doesn't, then it's probably something else.

Seems like your deal is running out of steam big time. If you want to change that, then do so. Whatever you do, don't talk to her about it. Talking kills attraction and value.

Imagine a girl being swept off her feet. She's getting roses at work with the card signed "I'm hot for you" no name added. This guy is taking her to exciting places and having a huge good time,,,, then he's scarce. He's working her up, making her feel hot, then he's gotta leave. He's giving her books that she finds exciting, that she never thought to buy herself.

Creating value is done by creating value. Every run in with you must be excting and fun. When she's near you she feels like a better person. She misses you when your not around.

That's value.

Good luck.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:01 pm 
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Website: http://thesecretlivesofman.blogspot.com/
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Hey Battleship,

let's not sweat this one, don't worry yourself too much about this girl, focus more on yourself.

In order to win this girl back you need to focus on developing yourself rather than the perceptions of the girl.

You can only win her back if you win yourself first.

Do you know what your ideal self is ? Explore, investigate and envisage your ideal self (separate from your girl). Now, create that man. Dwell in him, live his life - become him. He is truly you.

If she doesn't like you because you 'cheated' then drop her, drop her like a stone. You're a man, you need a range of engagements - this is healthy and biological. Do not expend time and energy on women who want you to be any less than the man you truly are !

have fun on this journey !

PhilZ


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:14 am 
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Thanks so much for the responses! They've been helpful, keep them coming... I think I can/will get through this, and all this support helps!
Quote:
From what you wrote, I'm not entirely convinced that your cheating is that big an issue for her. Fact is, if I was to guess, it seems like it's a bigger issue for you. That's a good thing, shows you're a good guy. I mean, does she bring it up? If it was that big of an issue for her, I promise you, she'd be bringing up, especially during fights.
Nope she doesn't bring it up. So I guess I've to deal with it internally.
Quote:
If she doesn't, then it's probably something else.

Seems like your deal is running out of steam big time. If you want to change that, then do so. Whatever you do, don't talk to her about it. Talking kills attraction and value.
You're 100% right about the talking. It hasn't worked for us before. But I've got to ask, aren't relationships built on communication? So if we can't talk about our issues, does it mean this relationship has way broken down?
Quote:
Creating value is done by creating value. Every run in with you must be excting and fun. When she's near you she feels like a better person. She misses you when your not around.

That's value.
I understand that, but its way easier said than done. How do you translate "exciting and fun", and making her feel like a better person, into real everyday actions? I've been looking in many of the other threads around the forum and slowly digesting them, but in some ways I need quick fixes. Any tips?

Or should I see this more as a process and it takes time?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:07 pm 
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Honestly,

I'm not as optimistic.

Men are pretty linear. Man hungry, man eat, food taste cold and bad, man angry, man talk to waiter.

Women are a bit different: After "food taste bad", they . . .smile, then they joke. . . then they ask you, "What do you think about this? Is this really bad or what?"

What I'm saying is that by the time women display some "visual signs" that a relationship isn't working, she's already made up her mind and could already be fucking somebody else. They typically give the guy negative vibes at this point to shift the responsibility of cheating to the guy. "See . . it's YOUR fault" (Without ever even having to say it.)

I've actually given this "speech" to 3 guys in the last few months. What do you think EVERY guy says to me. "No, no . . . you don't know my ____."

In my mind, I think . . 'what do you mean? Don't you think I know that your girlfriend is indeed a girl?' . . . but what I say is, "Yeah, well . . . it could happen."(I found out later that one particular girl wasn't even living in her own apartment any more and had already moved into her new boyfriend's apartment long before my buddy and I even had this discussion)

Anyhow . . . this is where we are . . . but I also think you're taking the wrong approach.

Your #1 goal seems to be "Recovery". "I want to be together with her! I want to be together with her!" - But what is it that you're really trying to save here?

You are allowing her to use her crazy ass female moody crap as a weapon to train you into her little pet. "I'll change for you. . . " Are you kidding? Why not just cut your balls off now and stuff it in a jar for her? Think about the cycle you're creating here. Let's say that you somehow leverage your doormat skills to win her emotions back. How do you think she will respond to anything that goes wrong in the future? (Believe me, this is life. . . and you've only been together for a year. You will face MANY more challenges for sure) I'll tell you what she will do. She will AGAIN be a cold fish to you. she will deny you sex. she might fuck around (You don't know ANYTHING) but she will of course for certain flirt with others (which typically leads to fucking around)

Is this what you want? Do you want to be with a girl who runs you like a little pet? I know where you are. You're thinking . . . "I love her and I will fight for her at all costs, blah, blah, blah . . ." Go ahead and let me know how this works out for you once she gains a few pounds, shows some wrinkles, and you've been together long enough so you're well aware of her intellect. What do you have left at that point? How will SHE adapt to changes in your future "for better or for worse"(sorry for the pun)

Just do this exercise: 1. Reach down between your crotch. 2. Cup your hands. 3. You should feel a pair of dangling orbs . . . give them a nice squeeze to remind yourself that YOU are the MAN.

Here's where you go:

1. You don't make announcements for your efforts at "putting everything you can" into this relationship. You don't tell her you'll "change" for her. This is like telling her that when you did the above exercise, you felt a vagina down there instead of balls.

2. Start gaming her all over again. You have to STOP this "I did this wrong, I did that wrong, I have to make it better" song of yours. Start DOING things like:

You call her up at work and go, "Hey, what are you doing for dinner?" ("I don't know" is standard answer) So you go, "Well, now you do. I just found this recipe for _______. It'll be great." And just have a great time like nothing ever happened.

"I just heard about this _______ place that makes a killer latte. Why don't we bring a couple of books there and kill a day. It'll be fun."

Bars, parks, malls, etc . . .etc . . .

Just try it out . . . but you I would suggest you really, really give a serious thought to what you're doing here.
Quote:
Please don't ask me to simply ditch her. I feel that 1. both of us have put too much into this to give up. 2. she's really the girl i want in my life (she has many unique ways of thinking that i really feel no other girl has)
1. Your first "excuse" is that you put "too much" into this to give up now. Hey, isn't that what they're saying about the war in Iraq these days? If a stock is dropping in price, when do you want to sell it? (Yeah, yeah . . . that's what EVERYBODY says but what do ALL the losers do?)

2. Well so far, you haven't shown us one unique thing about this girl. What's your reference point for "uniqueness"? Because this one sure sounds like a typical junior varsity balls crusher to me.

Wish you the best of luck.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:29 pm 
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Battleshipgrey, ? Sounds a Navy name. I was Navy myself.

ANyhow, You bring up a good point about relationships and communication. They certaibly are important. But in this particular case, the issue is that your girlfriend's level of attraction has decreased for you. And that is not something that can be increased by sharing your feelings.

Here's the funny thing about women. We think they hold all the cards. The yes/no vote on dating. The yes/no vote on sex etc. But there is one thing that they do not control and that is their level of attraction for us.

If you meet a lady in church and she is with her husband, the priest and five kids and she sees you and finds you attractive, there is not a single thing she can do about it. It's not her choice. It's a subconcious reaction.

Conversely, if her level of attraction decreases for you, there is nothing she can do about that. Let's say a lady may be with a guy who she knows is perfect for her. Her parents and friends all love the guy. Kids like him. He has a good job and treats her like a queen. He wants to save the whales and adopt a dolphin or whatever. If her level of attraction decreases for the guy, she is screwed because there is not a single thing that she can do about that.

Attraction is something we can actually control and influence. So the ball is in your court there bud. Maybe it might help to consider it from this angle. Forget she's your girlfriend. Pretend she's just someone you know and really want . How would you go about things? How would you get her interested in you?

Do a google search for seduction techniques and find some stuff that will work for you.

Good luck.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:16 am 
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kasabi, thanks for the hard advice, really appreciate it. you've given me much to think about:
Quote:
What I'm saying is that by the time women display some "visual signs" that a relationship isn't working, she's already made up her mind and could already be fucking somebody else. They typically give the guy negative vibes at this point to shift the responsibility of cheating to the guy. "See . . it's YOUR fault" (Without ever even having to say it.)
This could be true, although I'm somewhat sure she isn't fucking somebody else yet. Yep I'm aware that it will probably happen, and part of the negative vibes she's giving me might be due to that. I feel that I have a limited time to get out of the "LJBF" zone and back to being her passionate lover.
Quote:
Your #1 goal seems to be "Recovery". "I want to be together with her! I want to be together with her!" - But what is it that you're really trying to save here?

You are allowing her to use her crazy ass female moody crap as a weapon to train you into her little pet. "I'll change for you. . . " Are you kidding? Why not just cut your balls off now and stuff it in a jar for her? Think about the cycle you're creating here. Let's say that you somehow leverage your doormat skills to win her emotions back. How do you think she will respond to anything that goes wrong in the future? (Believe me, this is life. . . and you've only been together for a year. You will face MANY more challenges for sure) I'll tell you what she will do. She will AGAIN be a cold fish to you. she will deny you sex. she might fuck around (You don't know ANYTHING) but she will of course for certain flirt with others (which typically leads to fucking around)

Is this what you want? Do you want to be with a girl who runs you like a little pet? I know where you are. You're thinking . . . "I love her and I will fight for her at all costs, blah, blah, blah . . ." Go ahead and let me know how this works out for you once she gains a few pounds, shows some wrinkles, and you've been together long enough so you're well aware of her intellect. What do you have left at that point? How will SHE adapt to changes in your future "for better or for worse"(sorry for the pun)
What is it i'm really trying to save? I want this relationship to be back where it used to be, passionate, loving. It had all the qualities I would say I want in a LTR. (I know this is a very optimistic/naive view)

You are right, I have to stop being a doormat. Your comment about the few pounds, some wrinkles, has actually happened, she's put on weight. We've been together a short time, but I really like her for her way of thinking. I know I risk sounding like a hopeless romantic here. I'm not really defending myself, I feel many of your points are valid, but not all to the same extent. But the general idea is right, that I should stop being a pet!
Quote:
Here's where you go:

1. You don't make announcements for your efforts at "putting everything you can" into this relationship. You don't tell her you'll "change" for her. This is like telling her that when you did the above exercise, you felt a vagina down there instead of balls.

2. Start gaming her all over again. You have to STOP this "I did this wrong, I did that wrong, I have to make it better" song of yours. Start DOING things like:

You call her up at work and go, "Hey, what are you doing for dinner?" ("I don't know" is standard answer) So you go, "Well, now you do. I just found this recipe for _______. It'll be great." And just have a great time like nothing ever happened.

"I just heard about this _______ place that makes a killer latte. Why don't we bring a couple of books there and kill a day. It'll be fun."

Bars, parks, malls, etc . . .etc . . .

Just try it out . . . but you I would suggest you really, really give a serious thought to what you're doing here.


Thanks for your tips in that aspect. Yes I'm aware I need to game her all over again. I used to be fairly decent at gaming, then I got into this one-titis thing, and over the course of our relationship I became a wuss/doormat. I'm beginning to take steps to reverse this.
Quote:
1. Your first "excuse" is that you put "too much" into this to give up now. Hey, isn't that what they're saying about the war in Iraq these days? If a stock is dropping in price, when do you want to sell it? (Yeah, yeah . . . that's what EVERYBODY says but what do ALL the losers do?)
Yes you're right, it is an excuse. But, rather, I meant I feel like I should have a little determination and persistence when I want to pursue something (in this case her). And having come so far down the road, yes I can turn away/back anytime, but why not go just a little further and see what it brings?
Quote:
2. Well so far, you haven't shown us one unique thing about this girl. What's your reference point for "uniqueness"? Because this one sure sounds like a typical junior varsity balls crusher to me.
I have a very skeptical view of uniqueness, that yes, everybody is unique. It's just, we've talked about the future, about sharing our lives with one another, and I'm really keen to live out that dream. Or rather, give it a shot. I know, many things will never come true, but then again, I want to risk this. I didn't tell much about how she is unique, partially because I don't see the point, and also it'll take a while to type.


I might reply in more detail later, have to go to work now.


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