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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:46 pm 
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AFCToTheMax wrote:

How often does she get drunk? Because to me it seems that she has issues and copes with drinking. Only she can solve them, but it's not acceptable to be drunk when around you at all especially if you are not OK with it.

You should work on yourself by:
- having goals (work promotion, buying a flat, hourse car etc.)
- having friends (ones you can spend quality time with)
- taking up new hobbies (list is endless here)
- getting healthy etc. (hit the gym, go kickboxing, yoga etc.)

The greatest boost for self esteem is when you set yourself a goal, work hard and achieve your goal. No matter what the goal is, doesn't have to be woman. I speak from personal experience.
For example If you set yourself that you are going to finish with good grades and you do it trust me you will be as happy as if you've just picked up a girl.

Picking up girls as a mean to validate yourself is terrible.


^This just says it all.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:15 am 
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AFCToTheMax wrote:
Valdemar1 wrote:
In$tinct wrote:

Have you told her that you were not fancy with getting drunk? I'm sure this issue could be solved easily. There are lots of possible choices:

1) She drinks and you don't (if you can put up with this)
2) She accepts you don't like drinking and will only do it when she's not with you.
3) She drinks and you do some other stuff(recommend weed. Almost the same effect, more healthy, less addictive, and you shouldn't be puking, if you do then you got some really bad stuff)

The key is to find a compromise which benefits both of you, or hurt either party the least possible.

Also don't commit your entire life to gaming because then you will have this issue of not being able to improve it when you're in a ltr. I myself play chess. And I'm always making myself better at it. Last time I played at a simul and I drew to a score of 3-3 with an international master. Needless to say, my girlfriend was quite amused. So just find something that you excell in and improve on that. Also, always focus on the weakest parts of your life. If you don't have a job, try getting one, if you don't study well, put more energy into studying, if you can't cook, learn it. etc... the possibilities in this modern world, are just endless for improving yourself. With all the possible literature on basically anything, and the internet, and lots of courses about well... everything, it shouldn't be hard.


Well she cutted down her drinking when for my benefit. But she likes getting drunk, and wether i am around or not, i really just don't like the idea of her being drunk (to the point where she is almost stumbling). When we talk about her going out i sort get a weird feeling, like something is completely wrong.. i Think i might overreact as a result of me being insecure...
It is also the things she does when drunk, like dance a bit offensive with her friends, whenever i bring it up, she then says she wants to improve it for me. but it has been going on for quite a while now. again i can't tell if it is me being insecure or her crossing the line that i have.

About improving constantly... i just find it hard, to improve in other areas. the reason is, that when i need to improve in gaming, i need to cross my own comfort line, and when doing that i get a kick out of it.. if i were to improve in studying, it would mean that i just stopped being lazy, and i just don't think that it would have the same effect as improving in gaming have a huge effect in my overall confidence.. so i guess i find it hard to improve in areas that will have the same result as improving in gaming will...

Appreciate your answer a lot!


How often does she get drunk? Because to me it seems that she has issues and copes with drinking. Only she can solve them, but it's not acceptable to be drunk when around you at all especially if you are not OK with it.

You should work on yourself by:
- having goals (work promotion, buying a flat, hourse car etc.)
- having friends (ones you can spend quality time with)
- taking up new hobbies (list is endless here)
- getting healthy etc. (hit the gym, go kickboxing, yoga etc.)

The greatest boost for self esteem is when you set yourself a goal, work hard and achieve your goal. No matter what the goal is, doesn't have to be woman. I speak from personal experience.
For example If you set yourself that you are going to finish with good grades and you do it trust me you will be as happy as if you've just picked up a girl.

Picking up girls as a mean to validate yourself is terrible.


I don't really see it as her being insecure or anything. She puts a lot of work into school and such from monday -> friday, then as a way of relaxing and a way to stop thinking, she likes to go out and get drunk.. So it is not so much that she gets drunk with me, it is not like we sit at home on a monday night and she suddenly start doing shots and get wasted or anything like that... She just go out and get drunk with friends or something.. I guess it is pretty normal for a girl at the age of 19 to do that, but at the same time i hate the thought of her being out and being really drunk...

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:47 am 
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Hey man, I read the post and was inspired by it, however you say very little about imposing certain boundaries and rules so I'd like to know your take on that.
I am in the first stage of a relationship with this girl(we're both 20), where we just try to get to know each other. She gets a lot of validation from other guys and from the world because she's hot, she is also a bit emotionally immature. I don't really know how to describe this, but it's almost like she's testing me: sometimes she acts nice and then turns into a bitch all of a sudden. She's playing all these games, like trying to get a negative reaction out of me. She also is egoist, would rather talk then listen to me, she is very reactive in general and gets bored very easily-THAT type of girl. She also acts a bit jealous, even though she gets hit on by guys daily, yet I have to go "sarging" if I want to meet any girl. Also I'd say she is a attention seeker, never leaves the phone unanswered. However she does have some solid boundaries and screening regarding guys from when I've noticed.
There are also things about her I like other then her looks(for instance she is passionate about what she does and is very creative), don't get me wrong, but overall I don't know if a relationship with her would be healthy.
Just 2 examples :
A few nights ago we were talking on the phone about her insecurities and suddenly she said she hates me, she turned VERY cold and serious, didn't want to even reply. I tried being sweet, then turning silent for a bit. Eventually I told her I kinda expected her to be like this(because I saw this type of behavior in her before) but it's ok, just that she's being dominated by her emotions. I tried to be calm and calm her down as well. Then she started acting a bit sweet towards me again in 10 minutes when this "ego boost" finished and asked me if I will ever talk to her again etc. Next day when she called me I asked her if there's something she wants to say and she apologized, but kind of superficially.
Last night she ended the phone conversation a bit abruptly, probably because I was talking about my life and she wasn't keen on listening(but I listen when she tells me about hers). Then later we exchange these texts(translated roughly from another language) :
Her : You are so insensitive...
Me : Aww call me again
Her : No
Me : Fine then I'm going to sleep
Her : I don't ever want to talk with you.
Me : I don't like the Jessica that plays games and is immature. I like the Jessica that is nice and listens to her man. If you're the first one I don't wanna talk to you either

Now I don't know exactly how to address the issue, what IS the issue, and what to tell her. Will she be like this forever ?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:24 am 
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PadawanLearner wrote:
Hey man, I read the post and was inspired by it, however you say very little about imposing certain boundaries and rules so I'd like to know your take on that.
I am in the first stage of a relationship with this girl(we're both 20), where we just try to get to know each other. She gets a lot of validation from other guys and from the world because she's hot, she is also a bit emotionally immature. I don't really know how to describe this, but it's almost like she's testing me: sometimes she acts nice and then turns into a bitch all of a sudden. She's playing all these games, like trying to get a negative reaction out of me. She also is egoist, would rather talk then listen to me, she is very reactive in general and gets bored very easily-THAT type of girl. She also acts a bit jealous, even though she gets hit on by guys daily, yet I have to go "sarging" if I want to meet any girl. Also I'd say she is a attention seeker, never leaves the phone unanswered. However she does have some solid boundaries and screening regarding guys from when I've noticed.
There are also things about her I like other then her looks(for instance she is passionate about what she does and is very creative), don't get me wrong, but overall I don't know if a relationship with her would be healthy.
Just 2 examples :
A few nights ago we were talking on the phone about her insecurities and suddenly she said she hates me, she turned VERY cold and serious, didn't want to even reply. I tried being sweet, then turning silent for a bit. Eventually I told her I kinda expected her to be like this(because I saw this type of behavior in her before) but it's ok, just that she's being dominated by her emotions. I tried to be calm and calm her down as well. Then she started acting a bit sweet towards me again in 10 minutes when this "ego boost" finished and asked me if I will ever talk to her again etc. Next day when she called me I asked her if there's something she wants to say and she apologized, but kind of superficially.
Last night she ended the phone conversation a bit abruptly, probably because I was talking about my life and she wasn't keen on listening(but I listen when she tells me about hers). Then later we exchange these texts(translated roughly from another language) :
Her : You are so insensitive...
Me : Aww call me again
Her : No
Me : Fine then I'm going to sleep
Her : I don't ever want to talk with you.
Me : I don't like the Jessica that plays games and is immature. I like the Jessica that is nice and listens to her man. If you're the first one I don't wanna talk to you either

Now I don't know exactly how to address the issue, what IS the issue, and what to tell her. Will she be like this forever ?


Your response to her is fine. This is what you do. You don't like if she is a bitch so you tell her.

Yes she will change if she loves you and realizes that if she don't change she will lose you. The reason she does act like this is because she knows than when she switches back to sweet mode you are there for her.

Next time she does it tell her. "Look baby, I love you but this behaviour of yours makes me unhappy. So I'll leave you to think about what do you want to do about this." Then you go no contact.
I don't advertise no contact in a relationship but she is really immature and doesn't realize that you can just go away and find someone else.

Either this or you just accept her as she is and decide whether you want to put up with this or not.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:32 pm 
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AFCToTheMax wrote:
PadawanLearner wrote:
Hey man, I read the post and was inspired by it, however you say very little about imposing certain boundaries and rules so I'd like to know your take on that.
I am in the first stage of a relationship with this girl(we're both 20), where we just try to get to know each other. She gets a lot of validation from other guys and from the world because she's hot, she is also a bit emotionally immature. I don't really know how to describe this, but it's almost like she's testing me: sometimes she acts nice and then turns into a bitch all of a sudden. She's playing all these games, like trying to get a negative reaction out of me. She also is egoist, would rather talk then listen to me, she is very reactive in general and gets bored very easily-THAT type of girl. She also acts a bit jealous, even though she gets hit on by guys daily, yet I have to go "sarging" if I want to meet any girl. Also I'd say she is a attention seeker, never leaves the phone unanswered. However she does have some solid boundaries and screening regarding guys from when I've noticed.
There are also things about her I like other then her looks(for instance she is passionate about what she does and is very creative), don't get me wrong, but overall I don't know if a relationship with her would be healthy.
Just 2 examples :
A few nights ago we were talking on the phone about her insecurities and suddenly she said she hates me, she turned VERY cold and serious, didn't want to even reply. I tried being sweet, then turning silent for a bit. Eventually I told her I kinda expected her to be like this(because I saw this type of behavior in her before) but it's ok, just that she's being dominated by her emotions. I tried to be calm and calm her down as well. Then she started acting a bit sweet towards me again in 10 minutes when this "ego boost" finished and asked me if I will ever talk to her again etc. Next day when she called me I asked her if there's something she wants to say and she apologized, but kind of superficially.
Last night she ended the phone conversation a bit abruptly, probably because I was talking about my life and she wasn't keen on listening(but I listen when she tells me about hers). Then later we exchange these texts(translated roughly from another language) :
Her : You are so insensitive...
Me : Aww call me again
Her : No
Me : Fine then I'm going to sleep
Her : I don't ever want to talk with you.
Me : I don't like the Jessica that plays games and is immature. I like the Jessica that is nice and listens to her man. If you're the first one I don't wanna talk to you either

Now I don't know exactly how to address the issue, what IS the issue, and what to tell her. Will she be like this forever ?


Your response to her is fine. This is what you do. You don't like if she is a bitch so you tell her.

Yes she will change if she loves you and realizes that if she don't change she will lose you. The reason she does act like this is because she knows than when she switches back to sweet mode you are there for her.



Yea , his response is good.

But no , she won't change. People don't just change , and especially not for other people. I don't care how much they "love".


@OP: Yeah , you have an emotionally immature girl(EIG) on your hands.

I don't really know what to tell you though. My case of EIG was a great learning experience , was overall pretty fun , never boring with all the drama going on..sex was also insane since I was "hate-fucking" her today and "making love" to her tomorrow.


Point is it's not a healthy relationship. It will either leave you a completely broken man , or it will be the foundation of your new and exponentaily better version of yourself.

For me it's the latter. I'm wouldn't change a thing about the whole experience.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:32 pm 
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R.C wrote:
AFCToTheMax wrote:
PadawanLearner wrote:
Hey man, I read the post and was inspired by it, however you say very little about imposing certain boundaries and rules so I'd like to know your take on that.
I am in the first stage of a relationship with this girl(we're both 20), where we just try to get to know each other. She gets a lot of validation from other guys and from the world because she's hot, she is also a bit emotionally immature. I don't really know how to describe this, but it's almost like she's testing me: sometimes she acts nice and then turns into a bitch all of a sudden. She's playing all these games, like trying to get a negative reaction out of me. She also is egoist, would rather talk then listen to me, she is very reactive in general and gets bored very easily-THAT type of girl. She also acts a bit jealous, even though she gets hit on by guys daily, yet I have to go "sarging" if I want to meet any girl. Also I'd say she is a attention seeker, never leaves the phone unanswered. However she does have some solid boundaries and screening regarding guys from when I've noticed.
There are also things about her I like other then her looks(for instance she is passionate about what she does and is very creative), don't get me wrong, but overall I don't know if a relationship with her would be healthy.
Just 2 examples :
A few nights ago we were talking on the phone about her insecurities and suddenly she said she hates me, she turned VERY cold and serious, didn't want to even reply. I tried being sweet, then turning silent for a bit. Eventually I told her I kinda expected her to be like this(because I saw this type of behavior in her before) but it's ok, just that she's being dominated by her emotions. I tried to be calm and calm her down as well. Then she started acting a bit sweet towards me again in 10 minutes when this "ego boost" finished and asked me if I will ever talk to her again etc. Next day when she called me I asked her if there's something she wants to say and she apologized, but kind of superficially.
Last night she ended the phone conversation a bit abruptly, probably because I was talking about my life and she wasn't keen on listening(but I listen when she tells me about hers). Then later we exchange these texts(translated roughly from another language) :
Her : You are so insensitive...
Me : Aww call me again
Her : No
Me : Fine then I'm going to sleep
Her : I don't ever want to talk with you.
Me : I don't like the Jessica that plays games and is immature. I like the Jessica that is nice and listens to her man. If you're the first one I don't wanna talk to you either

Now I don't know exactly how to address the issue, what IS the issue, and what to tell her. Will she be like this forever ?


Your response to her is fine. This is what you do. You don't like if she is a bitch so you tell her.

Yes she will change if she loves you and realizes that if she don't change she will lose you. The reason she does act like this is because she knows than when she switches back to sweet mode you are there for her.



Yea , his response is good.

But no , she won't change. People don't just change , and especially not for other people. I don't care how much they "love".


@OP: Yeah , you have an emotionally immature girl(EIG) on your hands.

I don't really know what to tell you though. My case of EIG was a great learning experience , was overall pretty fun , never boring with all the drama going on..sex was also insane since I was "hate-fucking" her today and "making love" to her tomorrow.


Point is it's not a healthy relationship. It will either leave you a completely broken man , or it will be the foundation of your new and exponentaily better version of yourself.

For me it's the latter. I'm wouldn't change a thing about the whole experience.


I agree, core personality traits are difficult to change. However her behaviour needs to change. She might be a good girl, but she act the way she does because she can get away with anything. And this you can change by not letting her. This was my point.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:22 pm 
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The thing with emotionally immature brats is that you tell her something along the lines of what you suggested:

Quote:
"Look baby, I love you but this behaviour of yours makes me unhappy. So I'll leave you to think about what do you want to do about this.


Then she'll eventually call you up and apologize ,cry , be very very sorry and promise to never do it again.

And she'll keep that promise. Until tomorrow. Or until 3 hours later. At which point it will be like you never even had that conversation. Because she's immature.


A kid will do shit like that. He'll promise to not do <random stuff> again , and as soon as you turn around , guess what he's doing ? All you can do as a parent is help him understand what he's doing wrong , give him perspective ,work on his character ,what have you, but ultimately your perfect parenting will only reflect on him once he outgrows his immaturity.

All you're really doing is influencing the person he becomes once that phase is over.Which is all good,except that's a parent's job , not a boyfriend's.

Sure he can influence her and raise her up to a better level / a better overall human being , but the effects of that won't show until she actually stops acting like she's 9. And by that time chances are some other dude will be the one enjoying his time and effort.


I know women in their 40's + that have not yet outground the bitch today / princess tomorrow phase. Also they're miserable , since their self-destructive nature prevents them from ever being even remotely happy.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:10 pm 
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Whether she would change or not it's difficult if not outright impossible to answer. Some people change, some people don't. But keep something in mind. The incidence of people changing for another human being is I think close to 0. People change for themselves, because they feel miserable the way they are. I hardly ever got to see any reason other than that.

You did everything correctly. Your reply was absolutely perfect. If this relationship is not working, it's not going to be your fault. As I have said, some people are just not meant to be together, and some people are just incompatible with most of the human population because they put too much shit on the table to live with.

My advice is that give this girl some time. She's in her 20s and in some cases women start to experiment with this kind of stuff later than their teenage years. It's pretty much just their way of learning how to tease. They don't quite know how to do it so they might create drama over nothing for no reason and that's hard to tolerate. The best way is to start learning to identify when she's just in bitchy mode, or there's some real issue. And ignore every stupid shit and if she doesn't stop then yeah pretty much just tell her to start behaving like a mature person or off she goes. Another key thing in this situation is that she seems to be learning that she can make up for anything when she starts acting sweet. And this is not helping at all. You need to make her understand that this is not the way to go. You accept and understand that she's making some mistakes but she can not compensate not learning from them by just suddenly being all over you. Be careful and don't overreact though. Don't punish her for every single little thing. It's not easy, I know.

Lastly, I'm sorry to say this but I give this not too much chance. Seen this too many times, and to be realistic they are usually just way too stupid emotionally for you to do anything about it. I hope it's not the case this time.

Peace,

In$tinct.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:37 pm 
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Here's my detailed theory on this one:

Men and women are a lot different in this case yet somewhat similar too.

Think about how men mature about interacting with women.

Really few are born with a real natural talent. These are the guys who had girlfriends since elementary school and wouldn't stop pulling women ever.

For most guys, they need to learn. They experiment and they do it usually in the teenager ages. They try the nice guy, they try the douchebag. They identify what's wrong and what's correct conciously and some thing subconciously too.

And then there is also a significant number of guys, who join the community because they realize that their life sucks too much to figure it out by themselves. And then the experiments begin too. Dedicated guys will learn sooner or later while others will remain miserable or keyboard jockeys who read everything yet know nothing.

With women, it's a bit different. And this is because women have much trouble with identifying responsibility. Women are masters of blaming others for their own faults, and blaming themselves for something that is clearly not their fault. So their learning is a bit harder in this aspect because they fail to draw to correct consequences. Speaking practically some douchebag may cheat on his girl eventhough she did nothing wrong. But the girl may blame herself and try to change for the better, yet she will only change for the worse. Or a girl who's a little brat, when left several times will draw the conclusion that all men are assholes and will never change. The scale is really big here and is entirely full from both extremes to the ideal all the way.

And this is why it is important when you're the man, to make the woman understand what is her responsibility and what is not. Clearly, when a pregnant girl throws big drama over that you didn't put enough butter on the toast it is just the hormones that made her crazy and later if she apologizes you should have a clear understanding of the situation and treat it like nothing happened, because really, nothing happened.

It is also important to see the nature of this behaviour. Has it always been like this, or is it a new problem? If it is a new problem, you can bet that there is something beneath the surface. That her behaviour is just the symptom, not the real problem.

If it has always been like that then it's hard times. You will most probably never understand the reasons because there can be many. Childhood, high school, problems at work, problems at home, problems with her self-esteem, it's close to impossible to diagnoze what is the matter and in many cases you can not even do anything about it.
The best thing to do is staying a man. Keeping the boundaries. Be consequent with your actions. She will learn or she will go, no other way around this.

Peace,

In$tinct

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:49 pm 
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Thank you for the replies everybody, this is really so much more than just a pickup forum.
Things are better put in perspective after I've read this.
I will try to communicate the message to her and see if she understands. If she does not, that that's life.
In case this works out I will post here in a few months just to let you know haha.

Cheers guys !


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:01 pm 
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Just do as In$tinct advised you and stay a man.


You have to walk a very thin mid-line here.

Don't get all worked up over small nothings and don't get too impressed with her sweet act.


Good luck.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:05 pm 
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Really wish I was following Pick Up from this forum when I got into my relationship, because this thread would probably have helped me keep my head focused. I hit so many of the bad points that this thread highlights.

Great post In$tinct.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:55 am 
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Thank you for taking the time to make this guide. It will help a lot of guys.

I have to admit that I have failed in understanding what my girlfriend says. I can be just really simple sometimes and forget that women are not that simple.

Bonne chance my friend!!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:26 am 
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Brilliant post by OP. Information is available anywhere else in the forum, right. The way it is presented is not. Thumbs up for simple explanations instead of typical responses like "less attention to her" "don't be a nice guy" and "dump her" - we all know that. Long story short, i love the practical way of presenting the ideas.

I am not hijacking the thread or anything, because my comments and questions will be related to general inquiries (ok, maybe some things towards my relationship, but thats that) instead of "Please solve my problem In$tinct" thus I hope this will be useful to many of us like the original post was.

While you have touched the topics of balance, boundaries and extremes I would like to ask more about those topics. It is LTR thread not a pick-up thread. There is a lot of difference as OP knows, but not everybody does. Here is goes:

Most of us have tried the nice guy thingy. some of us have tired the douchebag mode. We know that the former is very bad and the latter is not good. I am really flexible and I know i can change to the better person if i knew how. Where do i have to find myself between nice guy and douchebag? (Rhetorical question). Yes you have to be alpha, but that is on different dimension. I mean, this forum in general in giving advice on what not-to-do instead of what-to-do. "Don't be a nice guy" -> "Oh this shit is working great, lets get more in to it (not being nice guy), thats so functional, lets become super-douche or asshole to the max now!!!" - You see what problem I am referring to? Finding a proper balance.

Lets assume i live with my girlfriend for 2.5years. Lots of routine due to studies work, typical problems, sex life not good, cold to each other, blah blah. You know it.
1. Bad behavior. Yes she has to be punished by not getting back the attention. Now lets go to extreme: ignoring her and being angry like hell. This will not make things any better! (captain obvious) How to find the balance between licking her ass vs. being a total ass to her?
2. Lack of sex. Do I have to punish her for not wanting sex with me? Probably no. Do I have to punish her for giving me a cold "no" instead of explaining something? Maybe?
Then again lets assume she has all the power there. How to take it back? One might say rejecting sex for no apparent reason might work (It is childish IMHO, not that i have not tried it :) ). Yes, playing hard-to-get works in pickup, but it does not in relationships. She will do the same next time for you. It all sums up to: The balance between "he is such an immature boy to reject sex with his cock rock hard ATM" vs. "That douchebag is available/always there for me every time, so cheap, so boring".
3. Lack of respect from her how to treat that? Disrespecting her is a good idea? Probably no. Giving her a lot of respect/compliments in return so she will give that in return to you? Nope, not gonna happen, she will just expect this next time no matter what. Some say if respect is lost it is gone for good, some say you can get it back.
4. Attention. Does she deserve it in advance or does she have to get it when she does something good for you (remember it is LDR and we are living together), so small things are always there like household stuff - they are taken as obligations rather than favors (problem form both of us). What if she is not showing there emotions affection towards me, should I be colder or more affectionate than her?? What are the boundaries and the balance.

This list can be extended. But you get the idea. I am asking your opinion about the balance, and if you had some examples, it would be perfect. And I do hope to get a what-to-do instead of what-not-to-do as you are from a moderately close culture to mine while most of population on the board is from across the pond, where I tend to notice that they are very good in presenting ideas in "what-not-to-do" way. That is also applicable to textbooks for studies/work as well. I hope I did not sound politically incorrect there and sorry guys if that that offended you.

Thanks


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:42 pm 
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Hey do8, you raise a very good and very important point.

First, I want to talk about respect. I believe that after some point when the girl is literally walking all over his guy, it is practically impossible to get back the respect. The best thing to do, is move on, and learn from this mistake. However, if everything is caught early, when the problems are still manifesting, then it can be dealt with. So this respect thing is not so black and white, and it's hard to really talk about everything here. There will be some cases where simply proper communication would be enough. A more "progressed" case would require a bit of being unavailable. Not talking about being rude, and going no contact, that's not going to solve anything, as you have said it too. I'm talking about more subtle things. Asking for more, and providing less, and passing the shitstorm that will accompany this path. Of course this needs a lot of energy, work, and inner realizations too.

Unfortunately, providing a guideline on finding the proper balance is beyond me. It's a topic that is just too practical to be discussed in theory and in details. It's a skill, one has to obtain through experience and learning from each and every mistake. This, and the fact that every girl is different. What works for one may not work for the other, that's what calibration is all about.

What can be helped though, is how to realize a problem early, and coming up with appropriate solutions immediately. And really the best way is to communicate with your girlfriend. If a guy doesn't know his girlfriend well, he will surely not notice when something goes downhill in time, only when it's already too late. That's why it is very important, and why I always emphasize this critical thing.

I'd provide examples, but these are just too complicated. I'd have to completely describe an entire relationship. There is no perfect relationship. There is always something that needs work, and if you think there isn't, that's already bad. The thing that can be done is trying to prevent most of these with paying attention, and catching most manifesting problems in the early stages before they disrupt the harmony of the relationship itself.

I know what I've written is really vague, and probably not what you have expected, so I'll try giving one example, but it's not going to be a full coverage, because that simply can't be done in a topic like this. To actually cover everything, it'd be enough for an entire book, and I don't consider myself a master in the relationship section, an expert, max, so this is simply beyond me.

As for the example, I'll describe my very first relationship.

I was 18 years old, and the girl was 17. We met at a party on New Years Eve. Things clicked pretty well, and we kissed and spent the night together(no sex at this point). She was still a virgin, though I was her fifth boyfriend, and I lacked experience and tried taking things slow to not make her think that I only want to fuck her. I wasn't actually needy, because I didn't mind. I'd describe it more like I was overly patient and didn't give a shit. I thought it was a good policy, hell how wrong I was...

Not long after we "got together", she asked me out, and I agreed. We met and she asked me if I thought I could fall in love with her. I wasn't too confident in my reply, but I said that I thought so. (I really did, actually). She answered that she's not sure if she could fall for me. I thought, well, that's okay, and I told her that I thought it was best if we gave it a shot, as we realy had not much to lose. We agreed, and soon, as she found out more about me, she started feeling it. After this pretty bad start, everything was going great.

After about a month, we were drinking with some friends, and we started making out. I gently slid one of my hands under her shirt, and started massaging her breasts. She liked it very much actually, it was pretty bold and I was doing well at this point, because really, noone noticed. (Those were my closest friends, they'd have instantly started telling things like "Find a bedroom guys" or something like that, if they'd noticed it...)

So another 2 months passed, and she was at my place in the afternoon, and my parents weren't at home. This was the first time that the panties came off and I could start doing some things. I wasn't quite the expert, since it was my first time too, though I've read up on things and learned a few things from porn. At first it was quite inconvenient for her, but soon enough, it got better. Well, this was not the case on my side though. She was just way too gentle with my dick. Basically too afraid to do anything, she was really just stroking it as if she were afraid of hurting me or something like that. I told her that she shouldn't worry much and to do it stronger, but that lasted for about a minute before she went back to useless mode again. I never even came close to having an orgasm. After a while I was able to make her come though.

Now this started to frustrate me a bit, but I was like "well it's okay, we're having sex soon anyway..." I was so naive, and I couldn't calibrate properly, couldn't communicate properly, I was just a noob having a pussy that I couldn't handle.

So this went on for another 5 months, when she told me she was ready to have sex. Unfortunately, it hurt for her way too much. So I had to move really slowly, I couldn't put it in all the way through, and I had condom on too, so technically it was still impossible for me to come. This really disappointed me, but I thought, well okay this was her first time, next time it'll be better.

Stupid... Next time it hurt for her only a little bit less, I wasn't even close.

Next time... Oh. there was no next time... Well, next time we met we were already on long distance mode, since we applied to different universities. I visited her, and she was having an extraordinarily bad time. Something like this never happened, I had no idea how to do anything with this. At first I was trying to comfort her, but it was useless, so intead I decided: "Fuck this shit. I'll enjoy myself anyway". So after this bad evening, we got back to her place, and I was ready for action. She didn't want to do it. I was massively disappointed. I could hardly sleep, trying to figure out what the hell was wrong. Surprisingly, next day I didn't give a shit. I left, and somehow I forgot about her for an entire week. I had so much going on in my new life since it was my first year in the university, in a different city. It was not an intentional freeze-out. I REALLY forgot about her. So after a week she calls me up and tells me that she wants to meet. And then she called me out on why I hadn't called in a week. I striked back with "well, you didn't call me either". And so there we were sitting in the park and both of us new that this realtionship has no future. We broke up, and this was the end of story.

The amount of mistakes I committed in this relationship is shooting through the skies.

As you could see this had multiple issues. I wasn't pushing for sex, big mistake. I wasn't doing much to spice up the relationship, just got comfortable with the feeling that I have a girlfriend. Super big mistake. Sometimes I acted a bit needy, sometimes I was a douchebag. I couldn't communicate my needs to her properly so instead, I didn't communicate them at all to not look like I'm needy. Hardly ever did I have the correct attitude, it's actually a damn wonder that it lasted for so long.

Note that this was only 4 years ago. Only 4 years have passed and I'm on an entirely different level. And throughout those 4 years it was not the topics I have read here that got me good with relationships. It was actually having relationships and learning from my mistakes. So this is why I have really no better advice. I have started as a complete AFC too, eventhough I had lots of material in my head. Only experience truly enlightened me.

Hope this clarifies at least a few things, because in reality, I don't think I can do better in this aspect...

Peace,

In$tinct.

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Relationship guide: extended-relationship-guide-vt170687.html

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