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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:10 pm 
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Lol. That is great advice but that is what I am trying to do - two problems with that are:
a) we really fuck a lot - like 2-3 times each evening we see each other, it can go up to 5 if we spend entire day together, like on weekends (we both have quite big libido) to a point that she gets sore and can't anymore - so hard to change much here. What definitely improved recently is wuality of sex - it wasn't that great for neither of us (even tho we both are quite kinky) while we were fighting. Got much better now. But I can't do much here. Can't fuck her more. And am fucking her best I can.
b) I did developed feelings for her (nothing unnormal since we date 7 months already) and I have been expressing them a lot. So now if I don't say "I love you" on my own, first. If I only reply "I love you too", then she immediately picks it up and points it out and gets upset about it. Quite hard to play that girl now since I have given away everything at the beginning.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:15 pm 
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You need to read my posts again. Carefully.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:53 pm 
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The problem to me is that you negotiated the relationship where it's the way she wants it and I don't believe that you're being honest about what you wanted. If she wanted more freedom in the relationship as you say you did, why wasn't it like that in the first place? It took her to be ready to break up with you for you to come up with the conditions that allow for you to stay together.

You're not on equal footing and you probably never will be unless you start acting like a man that WANTS her but NOT AFRAID to lose her. Turn the relationship into a more spontaneous one and not so much a planned one. Part of the process of building long lasting attraction is showing you care but not showing the extent of your caring. You negotiating took that advantage away from you.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:01 pm 
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I did developed feelings for her (nothing unnormal since we date 7 months already) and I have been expressing them a lot.

Quit trying to do HER job. There's a reason why we men are called the opposite sex. Opposites attract.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:47 pm 
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So I fucked up big time. I have been seeing this girl for 7 months, we became exclusive around 3 months ago. She is very alpha and somehow has overcome my confidence and self-esteem which resulted in very controlling and possessive behaviors of mine (like flipping when she didn't text me back for couple hours, when I saw she was posting smth on social media, and some other stupid shit like that) and with us fighting a lot. Really a lot.

Our relationship was on the verge of ending so i took action and told her I am pulling back significantly, that we shouldn't be seeing each other more than 3 days per week (we used to much more), we should avoid contact while we are at work (one important point why she was unhappy is that she felt I am interrupting her work), we should go out a lot with friends on days we don't see each other and that I will make no more claims on her attention, time, plans, etc.

I have delivered on that and I have minimized amount we text each other - situation has improved a lot (and it has been just a week so far), I see her now texting me first much more, texting me or telling me first that she loves me much more and generally being much more caring and I think much more happy. I plan on continuing this setup without further action for another couple of weeks until situation stabilizes and until she sees the change in my behavior is permanent and she has much more space, freedom and I am not trying to make her or not make her do things.

The big problem I see is that the balance of power in the relationship is super skewed in her way. She basically has all the power. She knows I want her more than she wants me. She wanted to end things couple of times and I was opposing so she knows she has leverage over me. The relationship at the moment looks exactly how she wanted it to look like - with us having our own lives outside our relationship and lots of freedom, etc. I don't mind that relationship looks like that (I am actually more happy this way also) but the fact that she has driven it here and that we both know that it got here because that is what she wanted makes her having all the power in this relationship. The relationship is driven by her needs at the moment. And she surely realizes it.

Since she has all the power I fear that soon she will lose interest in me and start looking around. I think that doing something now as we still recover from that "fighting/controlling period" is too risky (as she might read some stuff as again controlling behaviors or as me trying to get back at her or punish her for driving relationship where it is) but I would like to get your advice on how can I get back some power in this relationship back once the situation settles and stabilizes - in couple weeks. Any thoughts on how to do that without her feeling controlled or punished?
So you're applying a bandaid to a wound that won't ever close.

That you're saying the relationship is driven by her needs tells me quite clearly you don't like the current arrangement. Not only that, you've become a 'nice dead person' in the process (a person who puts their needs subservient to their partner's).

I can tell you with a high degree of certainty that you're applying a quick fix to a deep-rooted issue. Your attachment needs aren't being met by this person, and the only way you can stave-off the inevitable breakup is by selling yourself down the river and satisfying her needs.

In the process you're neglected your own. After a period of time once again you ll blow-up again. She'll threaten to leave, and you'll sacrifice your needs again. The more you do this, the more entrenched/invested you'll become and the abusive cycle will continue until she likely tires of you and gets rid of you for good.

There's no longevity in your approach and you're simply disrespecting yourself by pretending there is.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:49 pm 
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The problem to me is that you negotiated the relationship where it's the way she wants it and I don't believe that you're being honest about what you wanted. If she wanted more freedom in the relationship as you say you did, why wasn't it like that in the first place? It took her to be ready to break up with you for you to come up with the conditions that allow for you to stay together.

You're not on equal footing and you probably never will be unless you start acting like a man that WANTS her but NOT AFRAID to lose her. Turn the relationship into a more spontaneous one and not so much a planned one. Part of the process of building long lasting attraction is showing you care but not showing the extent of your caring. You negotiating took that advantage away from you.
Agreed. He's too invested in this however to play that part. Idealy when she'd threatened to breakup his response would have looked something like "I agree this isn't working, and I respect your decision" and ended it there. More importantly that he actually mean it rather than use it as a tactic to woo her back in.

The fact he's already sold himself down the river tells me he's far too invested in this to pullback and become the aloof, self-confidant guy (the kind of guy she likely wants).


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:12 am 
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Quote:
I feel like I still express my feelings more than her - .
STOP expressing your feelings with your mouth, use you dick! And STFU about your 'feelings'!!

Boom.

Once in a while is okay in an exclusive relationship, but show how you feel by being a beast in the bedroom. She'll prefer that to mushy talk. Most women these days are more manly than men, lol.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:46 pm 
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OP, I read the prior thread on this chick.

Now, this girl was against a committed relationship with you, and I have to ask, what has changed? She wanted to fuck you, and still be free. She's fucking you, and she's still free. She may have spun it as "lets live separate lives", but its not a real relationship. At least, on her side. When you say she wants freedom to not have to text you back immediately, post what she wants...good. When you say that when you pull back on the over investment and she gets mad, well then its clear to see she wants your investment to higher, WITHOUT investing herself.

She wants YOU to kiss her, she wants YOU to cuddle her, she wants YOU to be sappy...thats not needy or a turn off for her if you're overinvesting like that...but dont ask abt what she posts on facebook, or what she's doing friday night. So the dynamic she wants, is you giving her more attention, and she has freedom. So months ago, it was fucking and freedom, now its still fucking and freedom. Now thats not to say a real rs shouldnt be fucking and freedom, but if you have a chick who wants you to overinvest while she doesnt, somethings wrong.

You're needy as fuck, but youre also dating a chick who wants you to be needy as fuck. She just doesnt want to lose anything in return for your neediness. She didnt want commitment, and it sounds like she's doing what she did months ago, killing time. Thats why its easier for her to walk away...she didnt want it in the first place.

Its great having a life outside your relationship. But when a chick who didnt want commitment in the first place, was constantly trying to move on months ago wants you to keep fucking her and showering attention, I gotta roll my eyes.
Quote:
Women lose interest when the world of their man revolves purely around them. They lose interest when you have no life outside the relationship. They lose interest when you display needy and controlling behavior. You're not worth much at that point. Why would she want to be around you when no one else does?
So true by RC. Thats why you gotta ask yourself why this chick wants YOUR world to revolve around her? Cause she is ok with THAT neediness, just not the kind that inconveniences her. She doesnt get mad for the smothering (you saying I love you constantly, you being the one wanting to cuddle), only when her freedom or responsibility comes up, well she's ready to go.

Are you just the guy who's showering her with attention while she waits for another guy? Cause months ago, thats what it was. And today it sounds like that as well. I mean, you gotta watch anyone who is OK with you overinvesting and look at what that means. Does that person really taking you seriously or just killing time?

Quote:
It's like she wants to keep my attention, attraction, involvement and investement level above hers.
Does this sound like a committed person to you? You can say well she is just accustomed to this dynamic, but shes also accustomed to the dynamic of you flipping out over social media right? I'm seeing a needy bf, and a chick who wants a needy bf, just doesnt want you to have expectations of your own. Funny you call your own actions controlling and possessive, but when she "gets hostile and angry and disengages" simply because you say I love you second and not first, well hey...thats nothing.
Quote:
In other words, and you said it yourself, she's more or less your #1 priority in life at the moment. That should never, ever be the case. You should always be #1, and the most she can be is #2.
Good advice here, only problem now is the chick. She doesnt want to be #2, because when you pull back she gets mad. You gotta be suspicious of anyone who when you do what they do, they get mad.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:51 pm 
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I think she gets mad because his pull is not actually a pull, just distant and passive aggressive behavior.

Pulling back sounds easy on paper but realistically speaking how many guys do it for themselves and how many do it exactly to get her attention?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:05 pm 
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I think she gets mad because his pull is not actually a pull, just distant and passive aggressive behavior.

Pulling back sounds easy on paper but realistically speaking how many guys do it for themselves and how many do it exactly to get her attention?
But isnt he pulling back because he's been too needy? Thats how I read it. I can see where he could be pulling back to be passive aggressive, but tbh I just think he's too afraid of losing this chick to try that. Like I think he's more focused on not losing her vs his own expectations. Or he could be that needy he's pulling back to get attention, so could see that too. Though it sounds more that he's not being distant, just toning down some of the sappiness (gazes into eyes etc)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:22 pm 
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Some of the responses in this topic are golddust and it should definitely be stickied!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:32 pm 
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But isnt he pulling back because he's been too needy? Thats how I read it. I can see where he could be pulling back to be passive aggressive, but tbh I just think he's too afraid of losing this chick to try that. Like I think he's more focused on not losing her vs his own expectations. Or he could be that needy he's pulling back to get attention, so could see that too. Though it sounds more that he's not being distant, just toning down some of the sappiness (gazes into eyes etc)
I think his way of pulling back was more along the lines of pouting rather than letting the relationship breath and focusing on himself for a bit. That's why I think she got mad.

He's now trying to tone down the sappiness and that seems to be going well, but he's just worried about how now "has the power".

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:41 am 
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Thanks for great responses guys!
Quote:
"
Also, yes she will get mad angry if you act passive aggressive. The idea is not to act distant, it's to be a little more detached from her and a bit more attached to yourself.
That is a great piece of advice and that is what I am trying to do now.
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You need to read my posts again. Carefully.
I did read them very carefully, my last response was to Heywood's post.
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The problem to me is that you negotiated the relationship where it's the way she wants it and I don't believe that you're being honest about what you wanted. If she wanted more freedom in the relationship as you say you did, why wasn't it like that in the first place? It took her to be ready to break up with you for you to come up with the conditions that allow for you to stay together.
It was like that in the first place. Just on the way I got "played". So her game and way of managing relationships is apparently stronger than mine (like I said before - she is quite alpha herself) so she did to me what I did to many chicks before - got me attached and over-invested even though she hasn't invested that much herself. And I knew and saw she is doing it, yet I was not able to fall more into neediness and possessiveness trap.

It took her to want to break up with me, for me to realize it how much down the hill I have felt. Again - I don't think her level of engagement is too low for 7 months of dating and 3 months of exclusive relationship. I think she played it so well that I got so much attached and over-invested. So that is what I am trying to fix at the moment.
Quote:

I can tell you with a high degree of certainty that you're applying a quick fix to a deep-rooted issue. Your attachment needs aren't being met by this person, and the only way you can stave-off the inevitable breakup is by selling yourself down the river and satisfying her needs.

In the process you're neglected your own. After a period of time once again you ll blow-up again. She'll threaten to leave, and you'll sacrifice your needs again. The more you do this, the more entrenched/invested you'll become and the abusive cycle will continue until she likely tires of you and gets rid of you for good.
I don't agree with that. I think my attachment got too big for the tenure of this relationship and I need to cool down and start taking it more easy. I think her level of attachment is just fine for how long we have been dating. If she will not be more attached in 6 months, after I pull back and we start building attachment/engagement together on similar level then i will be concerned.
Quote:
Agreed. He's too invested in this however to play that part. Idealy when she'd threatened to breakup his response would have looked something like "I agree this isn't working, and I respect your decision" and ended it there. More importantly that he actually mean it rather than use it as a tactic to woo her back in.

The fact he's already sold himself down the river tells me he's far too invested in this to pullback and become the aloof, self-confidant guy (the kind of guy she likely wants).
That is true that by no means I am ready to walk away at the moment. But pulling back has got me already some confidence back (and I am more happy this way in fact which I didn't expected) and hopefully I will be able to get back on track and to the stage where I will be ready to walk away.
Quote:
Now, this girl was against a committed relationship with you, and I have to ask, what has changed? She wanted to fuck you, and still be free. She's fucking you, and she's still free. She may have spun it as "lets live separate lives", but its not a real relationship. At least, on her side.
So what happened is that I went back to my home country for opening of my business and she saw on social media all the attention I am getting from other chicks and she asked me if I want to be exclusive. It was not me ho was pushing it anymore.
Quote:
When you say she wants freedom to not have to text you back immediately, post what she wants...good. When you say that when you pull back on the over investment and she gets mad, well then its clear to see she wants your investment to higher, WITHOUT investing herself.
I mena, duh... Are we not all doing this and wanting this from chicks? When you pick up a chick you exactly want her to be as invested as possible with as little of your investment as possible. of course that changes later in relationship, but like I said - I just got played into this by her, just like I did with multiple chicks before. I need to recover from it now.
Quote:
So the dynamic she wants, is you giving her more attention, and she has freedom.


That is not entirely true. She actually often needs space and doesn't want my attention at all.
Quote:
You're needy as fuck, but youre also dating a chick who wants you to be needy as fuck. She just doesnt want to lose anything in return for your neediness.


Not sure if she wants my neediness - she seems quite annoyed by it in fact. She wasn't getting mad bc I stopped being needy. She got mad because I got distant during our meeting.
Quote:
She didnt want commitment, and it sounds like she's doing what she did months ago, killing time. Thats why its easier for her to walk away...she didnt want it in the first place.


That is true that she didn't want commitment and probably still doesn't want it. but she uses this as a proof that she loves me. So she claims that even tho she doesn't want to be in relationship, it is more important for her to be with me because she loves me than not to be in a relationship which she didn't want to.
Quote:
Does this sound like a committed person to you?


Sure it doesn't. but I don't think she is not committed because she doesn't want to be committed ever or even now or even to me. I think she is not committed because of my neediness and controlling behaviors. Like I said - I think her level of attachment is normal for 7 months of dating. I think mine just sky-rocketed way above it should be.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:41 am 
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edit: deleted double post


Last edited by Piotr_Potro on Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:55 am 
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Good advice here, only problem now is the chick. She doesnt want to be #2, because when you pull back she gets mad. You gotta be suspicious of anyone who when you do what they do, they get mad.
I am still not sure if that is the case that she wants me to have her as #1 while she has herself as #1 and me somewhere down the line. Need to verify that still... But if it is true - I agree. this is a red flag.
Quote:
I think she gets mad because his pull is not actually a pull, just distant and passive aggressive behavior.
Pulling back sounds easy on paper but realistically speaking how many guys do it for themselves and how many do it exactly to get her attention?
yup. Exactly true. Previous attempt (the one with me being distant during the date) was too passive aggressive and too obvious. I am still doing this to repair relationship and get both our attention to equal levels but this time I am much more chilled about it and so far, so good - it seems to work quite well. I see increased attention on her side, increased investment on her side, sex we had last night was probably best in 4 weeks, and it seems like we both got less tense.
Quote:
But isnt he pulling back because he's been too needy? Thats how I read it. I can see where he could be pulling back to be passive aggressive, but tbh I just think he's too afraid of losing this chick to try that. Like I think he's more focused on not losing her vs his own expectations. Or he could be that needy he's pulling back to get attention, so could see that too. Though it sounds more that he's not being distant, just toning down some of the sappiness (gazes into eyes etc)
I am pulling back because I am too needy, too controlling and because my level of attention, attachment and involvement is not appropriate and not proportional to the tenure of the relationship. And yes, I am scared as fuck to lose her but it also doesn't change the fact that my expectations were ridiculous and I shouldn't have those at that point of relationship and me myself wouldn't allow any chick to set such expectations to me after 7 months of dating and 3 months of exclusive relationship. So I know that having this high expectations this early is just wrong and I need to pull back from this in general. Whether with this chick or another.
Quote:
I think his way of pulling back was more along the lines of pouting rather than letting the relationship breath and focusing on himself for a bit. That's why I think she got mad.

He's now trying to tone down the sappiness and that seems to be going well, but he's just worried about how now "has the power".
Exactly right - first attempt sucked and got her mad because I was pouting much more than actually letting the relationship breathe. Trying to refocus my life on me and not think about her at all when we are not together is super hard, but I am slowly moving in that direction and so far so good - we stopped fighting, we both seem happier, she seems more attracted, aroused and giving me much more attention on her own.

What the problem is for me is exactly what R.C is saying - that I feel like still she has all the power in the relationship and she knows I wouldn't be able to walk away from her at the moment (and it will take time to change it). And until that happens, she basically will be able to drive this thing wherever she wants and make me do/agree to almost anything. And this is what I don't want. And this is what I want to change asap, but cannot make too aggressive moves bc she gets angry/mad/suspicious and throws some shitty tests at me.


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