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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:42 am 
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Here's AFC Adam Lyons explaining his meta game for building social proof and how to AMOG the guy. He talks fast, but that was because it's a recap of what he did earlier.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uD5kcYvpJc[/youtube]


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:33 am 
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Little difficult to hear with his accent and shitty audio quality


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:04 pm 
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Yeah it's because he talks fast. Other than that, the audio is pretty good imho.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:32 pm 
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wtf? seriousely this is pretty pointless... just some guy talking REALLY REALLY fast

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:54 pm 
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Im from the uk and i can understand his accent but i dont get what the meta game is... :?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:00 pm 
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If I'm hearing that correctly, metagame is using an entire room to get the target. Love the EV Adam is on about. I don't use it in my game but I think I'll give it a lil bash. Sounds like fun!

Does anyone have the full 'lecture' from AFC Adam? I'd be very interested in hearing his game theory.

- Jack


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:35 pm 
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hahaha I love when I find stuff like this. The full video should be up from puasummit at their website soon.

Hmm...Let me see what I can find for now....

How's this?

The Metagame

by AFC AdamLondon

For those of you who have been in the game for a while now, you will probably have developed your own style of play.

Whether you are following one of the more mainstream methods, or have developed your own sense of game the fact is typically we have a sense of sameness to our approach.

E.g. some PUA's favour a more direct style, others prefere to use some form of dance game, whereas others may still use Routines, or Cocky funny spur of the momment lines. Whatever your style, there is one thing that does apply to many PUA's esspecially those in areas populated with a strong community, sometimes you can't avoid sarging in the same venue as other PUA's.

You may have a different style to the other PUA's in the area, but the fact is you are competeing with other PUA's. Now I understand that some people are fortunate enough to be in areas where there are few PUA's and so this wouldn't really apply to them. However, having said this almost every area wil still have naturals, which can sometimes be as bad as their proffesional PUA counterparts.

The metagame is something that was first used in Mathematics as a descriptor for set interaction that governs subset interaction in certain cases. The term was then taken and passed through military and then political actions to describe actions or events that where outside the bounds of a normal situation. I suppose it could be described in Layman's terms as "thinking outside the box" Though it's apllications are much more specific than that.

A good example of metagaming could be one found in politics where a law was passed to placate a specific media sensation. The actual effect of that law however, may be used to further another cause. In this situation "the game" would be the passing of the law, but the metagame would be the bigger picture into which the passing of the law fits. For example; using the terroist act to enable police greater powers to invade privacy. (an extreme example, but it makes the point)

The idea is that you are playing to the bigger picture, you have a clearly defined set of goals, and will tailor your gameplay to acheiving that aim, typically by refining your standard set of decisions by using additional information, in order to acheive your goal.

For a simpler "game" related example we can use chess. (yes I know that wasn't the game you had in mind) In chess there is a special set of 4 moves that can ensure you win the game. If you notice your opponent has used these same four moves in his last 6 matches in order to win, you could use this additional information in order to secure the victory by assuming he would continue to use them, and playing in such a way that they would not work.

SO how does this all relate to game? Well the fact is there are some PUA's that flourish in an environment rich with other PUA's and naturals, and those that see those venues as something to be avoided. Naturally everyone would prefere to work in a venue full of nothing but Hot Babes, but the fact is sometimes you just have to battle it out.

This is where it's time to use the metagame.

You will not always be fortunate enough to have opened the hottest girl in the room first, which means that typically she will have been approached by a number of guys before you. If there are a number of PUA's in the venue, or even some pretty decent naturals what will set you apart from them? If three other guys have used the "jealous girlfriend" opinion opener or made some form of C+F remark about something she is doing or wearing how will you be able to ensure you stand out?

It's time to fight dirty. Remember the metagame is not a friendly way of playing. It involves using all necessary information in order to acheive the goal of getting the girl you want. Do Not use this on wings, friends or anyone else you care about. The fact is generally it should be Bro's before Ho's and that is something to consider carefully before using any of the techniques described below. You have been warned.

The metagame is big, really big. There is no-way I could mention every single possible eventuality as each style of metagame will have a metagame to counter it for an infinate number of eventualities. What you are looking to acheive is a mindset where you will be able to calibrate your game to take into account the wider game being played in the room.

You aren't looking at a set as a group of HB's, you are looking at the room and seeking the best plan of attack based on as much of the room as possible.

Lets look at this from a social Proof point of view. My personal favourite.

Imagine a 2 set of SHB's (Super hot babes) being opened by absolutely every guy in the room. The guys, are naturals and just go in sharking or PUA's obeying the 3second rule, they approach hit a bitch sheild and get blown out. (I'll cover what happens if they don't later) Opinion openers have already been used, and the girls "just want to be left alone" How can we break in?

Well we take a look at the bigger picture. This is a simple form of metagame that most of the community are well aware of, by simply opening a set to the side of the group we wish to approach we can then bounce from that group into the 2 set. By not going completely direct it doesn't appear to be a pickup but rather a very normal form of conversation.

e.g.

You open a mixed set next to the SHB's and get talking to them, vybe with the group, showing the room that you are adding value to the group, pretty soon into the conversation you can go around and introduce yourself to everyone in the group then literally continue introducing yourself into the 2 set, there'll be a momment of awkwardness as they explain they aren't part of the same group, Which you can then laugh at with them, and then continue introducing yourself to them anyway.

Nothing particularly new there, and obviously there are a million other ways to bridge sets, but the point is you looked at the room as a means of opening the set rather than working out which opener would work best.

This is the metagame at it's simplest form, a way of dealing with average PUA's and naturals, but what happens if the PUA didn't get blown out of the set?

What if the natural was doing well?

Then we have to AMOG right? Go in and be friendly to the guy? Then we are looking at a situation where it is possibly PUA Vs PUA a true test of who has the best game? However that may not be a completely fair fight. What if they do have more skill than you? More routines? Maybe they can perform real magic and card tricks. What then?!

We need another way of playing something that will knock them down before they have even started. Lets look at how the metagame would deal with this. Well we understand from the community there are core principles that govern attraction.

These are;

Comfort
Attraction
Seduction

Managing these is a key part of secruing the girl. What if we messed with the other PUA's game by altering one of these without them knowing?

Lets take the above example of the 2 SHB's. Lets say the Natural/Pua didn't get blown out.

As before we build up social proof by opening the same mixed set, (though in fairness we wouldn't need to. Though why not swing things as much in our favour as possible?) Then we can lean over to the 2 SHB's and casually remark;

"Hey looks like you've pulled there."

I have used this countless times and will almost always receive the same response.

SHB: "I'm sorry what?"

Then all you do is simply explain what you said.

"The dude there, It looks like you've tagged yourself a new boyfriend"

Now what you have done is completely mess with his game, by making him appear completely available. Essentaily you have made him gain so much comfort with her, ideally at a point so early into the interaction that she will see the pick up for what it is, and then either blow him out, or store him in her pocket and continue looking for better options in the room.

Either way you've just opened the SHB in a very warm way and can begin trading knowing glances or "girl signals" with her as she continues to get picked up. Which will make her incredibly receptive to your future advances.

Remember there is a chance you may miscalibrate. The metagame isn't 100% perfect, then again no form of game is. If it turns out that the guy is actually her brother then you could come out looking slightly worse. In which case all you will have to do is re-frame the situation.

The fact is these occurances are few and far between and hardly warrant avoiding the chance to use solid metagame.

As you can see all we are doing is using the knowledge we have of the game to affect the other guys chances by miscalibrating him.

This could also be done by altering any of the other factors in his game. For example if a guy was trying to isolate a girl and close, you could ruin his chances by destroying the mood joining the two of them. However that wouldn't necessarily paint you in the best light, and may appear like you where trying so hard. You wouldn't be using the knowledge you would be AMOGing.

However we are aware that her friends would be willing to cockblock if they felt the need. So by befriending the group you could show genuine worry as to "where their friend was, esspecially as you saw the guy earlier flirting with another girl and getting pretty friendly with her in the quiet area at the back of the bar where he just took her friend."

As Mentioned earlier these aren't techniques to be used lightly, they are deliberate and cutting, designed to ensure that the goal is acheived, based on the bigger picture, and definately not to be used on a wing or anyone you care about. However using them on a natural is most definately reccomended. Remember most guys that go out to a bar and chat to girls are trying to pull. They may not have the same knowledge of game as us and therefore the Metagame is even more deadly, as they won't understand what is going wrong.

You can modify your game by using your knowledge of attraction and social interactions to acheive your goal. Whereas they will be left floundering. Even other PUA's who do not understand or use the metagame will struggle to understand what is going wrong with their sets.

Lets take something as simple as opening.

In a particular venue if you are aware that a guy is opening a large number of sets, to build social proof for example. You can tailor your game and opening to use that as a means to hook the set. Simply wait for the guy to leave the set and move onto the next one, then move straight into the set he was previously in and open with a simple observationary statement.

"Hey did you see that guy that just spoke to you? He's going around chatting to every girl in the room, weird eh?"

You can then sit with them and watch his behaviour with the girls, maybe even using your knowledge of game to explain what is going on. They are likely to be completey fascinated with the whole process of attraction, esspecially if you tell them when he is about to get blown out or eject before he does.

Using knowledge of game to talk to girls is something alot of people would completely avoid for fear of appearing weird, or giving the game away, however most girls spend alot of time reading about attraction and relationships in magazines. It's likely to be one of their favourite topics, and something you are likely to have alot of knowledge about. By telling them you have a healthy interest in social behaviour and read up on it in your spare time, you will have more than enough justification to speak to them about attraction, also if someone opens them while you are in set, you cna have an in joke with the girls as to their behaviour. Again using the metagame to alter the chances of the other guy.

Essentially the metagame is fluid, it is used to adapt to every situation presented to you, utilising the information you have at your disposal and looking at the bigger picture to help acheive your goal. In fact, with solid metagame you should find yourself flourishing in Male rich environments as the only guy that stands out, even if they are all PUA's. Because while 20 guys will be approaching with Opinion openers, you'll be approaching asking why people are going around asking for everyone else's opinion.

If used correctly you should be able to ensure that you can tailor your metagame to deal with a variety of situations where normal game would struggle and help you stand out in a crowd of naturals and PUA's.

AFC AdamLondon (Adam Lyons)


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:54 am 
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wow thats a really interesting and innovative style. definitely gonna try some of this stuff out when i get more into night game and happen to see a few strong naturals in my vicinity.

quick question - did u get inspiration for your style from material like 'The Art of War' by Sun Tzu? it seems like that from the way you utilized information to your advantage.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:49 am 
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good shit Mr. Lyons.

My favorite part is using social behavior as a topic of discussion.. Just recently at a party I was talking with a girl for about 10 minutes about game and social dynamics and she seemed just as interested as I was.

In fact its only a matter of time before the female side of game is as developed as the male side and we see female super star pua's.


nice.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:40 pm 
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hey Brodel,

Actually it's funny women are already PUA's in many ways, look at their magazines, their TV shows. THey've been playing with social interactions for years. We're waaaay behind them game is a way of us catching up to them.

I love the metagame I've been working on a few other aspects for it recently.

Funny enough BlakMagik art of war was a part of it, however it was a small part.

Pre game I was a gamer. Table top wargames, Magic the gathering and a video game cheats reviewer (amongst other things) I specialise in breaking systems down to core components and then exploiting them.

From designer armies in warhammer, to cheap moves in tekken, to picking up chicks.

I want the cheat codes to get the best results possible.

AFC Adam,


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:17 am 
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brilliant

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Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:02 am 
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Quote:

Actually it's funny women are already PUA's in many ways, look at their magazines, their TV shows. THey've been playing with social interactions for years. We're waaaay behind them game is a way of us catching up to them.
funny u should mention that.. me and my natural friend were discussing this the other week: we realized that a lot of game is simply implementing what women naturally use on us. for example: hoop-theory, sending mixed signals (our equivalent to 'negs') etc. definitely agree in terms of how much we need to catch up.. lol im still yet to see the first PickUp Weekly Magazine come out..

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:27 pm 
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Completely true dude!

I've added a few more bits to this in a video series I've started for the team at http://www.puatraining.com

If any of you're interested. I'm not sure who it went out to but I know a few peeps on the list got it.

AFC Adam,


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:39 pm 
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Man I hate the idea of this metagame. Its not like men dont have it hard enough trying to open sets without having to worry about some prick coming over purposely trying to ruin him.

I feel there are plenty of targets in most enviroments, the majority of SHB are usually alone in my experience because they intimidate most men... if another bloke has the balls to attempt to approach her I'd encourage him rather than destroy his approach, even use him as a pivot. If he tried to destory me by entering the set I was gaming alone I certainly wouldnt think twice about ruining him.

Most of this reminds me of the stuff JulianFoxxx is doing in that video, destroying other PUAs that he's learned from or the stuff Tyler Durden (I think) does near the end of The Game, where he undermines Style and Mystery by telling the set what they will say before they approach, its almost childish.

I'm a fan of your work AFC Adam, just last week I used your well-known 'marry me' approach with success, just to see if I could (I actually altered it slightly in the end to make it a 'first dance at our wedding - teach me how to waltz' type routine but it was your basic pattern)... I admire you as a PUA and a public speaker (from the videos I've seen) I just dont like the ethics or morality of purposely destroying another mans approach, most have it bad enough already - without having any knowledge of 'the community' - if you could even call it a community now that everyone is out to destroy each other.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:32 pm 
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Hahah Dude thanks for being so real about your answer, though I feel you've missed the point.

It's designed to go AGAINST PUA's,

Not guys who've got the idea down to try and get girls, but for PUA's who believe in Amoging etc.

I learnt game in an area full of AMOG's in fact where tyler learnt the idea of it IN leicester Square.

I wanted a defense. My first wing was a purpetual Amog so I designed a system to beat him.

Of course in the write up you could use it to really heavily amog someone, in the same way that you could use game to really hurt a girl.

I don't advocate either. But what people do really is up to them.

It's a tough call on morals. In fact I've written alot of posts about it in the past.

In reality If I'm going to run game, I'm going to run the best kind possible because in all the scenarios I know. There is ALOT of competition for the real SHB's...and I've yet to see the best of the best not dwarfed in men hitting on them. Though that may be an indication of the kind of places I sarge.

Either way, it's never the method and always down to the application.

But Kudos to you, because I agree 100% with the moral aspect.

Hope that clarifies things further.

AFC Adam,


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