Chief's Guide to Outer Game


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:18 am 
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HughG.Rection wrote:
Hey Chief, do you have any more tips on conversation? The only thing I struggle with is coming up with things to say.

Practice, practice, practice. You'll find your own genuine style through trial and error.

You don't want to practice a scripted routine stack within this outer game model I've outlined here because that would take away from the sincere curiosity you should use to fuel the conversation.

I think most guys have trouble with conversation because they're too worried about "what should I say that would make her like me more?" or something along those lines. The conversation style I've outlined is all about shifting your focus from "what does she think of me?" to "what do I think of her?" Conversation is just a tool for you to find out what kind of person she is.

So, of course you might have a lot trouble coming up with things to say if you're always trying to impress her with the amazing words you can say. You're setting a pretty high expectation for yourself there. So much pressure! Instead, you'll find that it's a lot easier to come up with things to say if you're asking about her and using conversation to explore her mind and life.

This is an Outer Game guide, but here's how Inner Game will be a huge factor here: if you feel insecure about yourself, if you feel like you need to impress others because you think you might be a loser, this conversation style will not be easy to adapt. You'll feel the need to try to get others to believe that you're cool because you're not even sure about it yourself, and subconsciously you believe that, if others think you're cool, it will be easier for you to feel better about yourself because you see yourself as a follower who would rather follow the beliefs of others. If you already feel pretty good about yourself, on the other hand, you won't feel a need to seek approval and therefore you will already assume your own awesomeness. You won't feel the need to prove that you're awesome to others, and so your focus will shift to finding out what's awesome about the woman in front of you. If you still need help with this Inner Game stuff, check out the stickies in the Inner Game board of this forum.

In terms of Outer Game, all you really need to worry about is shifting the focus from you to her. In short,
Trying to DHV yourself = Beta
Qualifying her = Alpha

melo15 wrote:
"One of the most common ways to do this is to evoke sexual arousal within yourself and the woman while talking about something that's completely nonsexual. "

"Because of the way in which these techniques use opposing forces in harmony, any application of the push/pull dynamic, the concept of 2-steps-forward-1-step-back, and cat string theory to the sexual vibe of an interaction will build Sexual Tension. "

First off I wanna say this post overall is going to help me a lot. The two parts I quoted were the only ones I had a little trouble grasping. Are there some examples you could provide for these two ideas Chief?

Example for the first one:
You get into sexual state (you start letting yourself feel horny) and talk about the weather. Because you're in sexual state, you will involuntarily (and naturally) subcommunicate countless subtle cues that her body and subconscious mind will pick up on, therefore making the conversation about weather feel very sexual.

Push/Pull:
Step 1. Show sexual interest. Step 2. Ignore her. Repeat.

2 steps forward, 1 step back:
Step 1. Sexually escalate through kino and vibe, such as letting yourself feel a stronger sexual state and holding her hand. Step 2. Cool down and get your hands off of her while lowering your sexual state a little. Step 3. Repeat step 1 but go a little further, and so on and so forth.

Cat string theory:
Basically the same damn thing as the above two, just more random.

The crux of all this shit is Sexual State, and that's a feeling you actually have to practice both controlling and letting it control you, so you'll understand all of this a lot more if you consistently go out and practice letting yourself feel horny in public settings. A lot of people say "nice guys finish last" and that the "jerks always get the girls," but the truth is that it's not a matter of nice vs. not nice. Nice guys just tend to repress their own natural desires more often than "jerks" do. Unfortunately for them, whether or not you are comfortable with expressing yourself sexually usually means the difference between friend zone and penis-in-vagina.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:30 am 
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Hey Chief, you said that you disapprove of MM because of it's reliance on routines and not a strong inner game. What if you eliminate routines from it, and follow the M3 method while relying on yourself for conversation. So instead of memorizing routines, when it comes to, say, DHV in whatever phase, you do it using an actual event that happened in your life or whatever. Is MM better in that case?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:38 pm 
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Jester_ wrote:
Hey Chief, you said that you disapprove of MM because of it's reliance on routines and not a strong inner game. What if you eliminate routines from it, and follow the M3 method while relying on yourself for conversation. So instead of memorizing routines, when it comes to, say, DHV in whatever phase, you do it using an actual event that happened in your life or whatever. Is MM better in that case?

If you want to use classic MM DHVs to prove to her that you're a good provider who can make a good husband, be my guest.

The underlying belief behind DHVing that you're a leader of men, protector of loved ones, etc. etc. etc. is that women need to see you as a potential long term partner is order for them to want to have sex with you, which is a ridiculously incorrect assumption. I don't know about you, but I'm not interested in marrying anyone, and I'm certainly not interested in breaking a poor girl's heart by leading her on to expect from me more than I'm willing to give.

Some PUAs have gone on to make "Sexual DHVs," which simply involves giving her hints that you're sexually adept. I'm cool with that.

As for the M3 model as a whole, it's not a goddamn seduction model in the first place because it makes incorrect (inefficient, rather) assumptions about attraction. MM says you don't start seduction until the 7th "phase." Actually, seduction starts from the beginning. MM says you need to raise your value and lower her's. Actually, having a frame of belief that says everyone (you and the girl in particular) are already of equal value renders all that DHVing and negging bullshit irrelevant. I could go on and on about how inefficient the M3 model is, but that would be going too far off-topic. I've already made a thread about that.

In terms of telling stories from your own life that just may happen to be impressive, I keep those stories to myself until someone asks me about them. For example, if you have a great story of how you saved the life of some famous person while you were vacationing in Spain, you should only tell that story if a girl asks something like "Have you ever been to Spain?" Even then, though, I would only give minimal details that don't tell the whole story (then, she would, of course, feel an inclination to ask for more details). I actively show a reluctance to DHV because I don't want to the girl to feel like I'm bragging. In fact, I would rather that she thought of me as a non-special, regular guy who's making her feel incredibly horny through more natural things like sexual state. I feel pretty good about myself, but all in all I see myself as a "regular guy," (even though I'm actually pretty fucking awesome) and I want her to see me as I truly see myself.

I don't need to DHV because I'm just a regular guy and it's OK for her to see me as just a regular guy who makes her feel horny. That's more than enough to get laid.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:31 pm 
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FINALLY!!! Someone that understands the power of dancing. xD


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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 3:43 pm 
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I notice you're from south korea chief,

Do the techniques you mention apply to asian women too? being asian myself, I find that they have certain differences, i.e. they EXPECT you to pay for things, etc. and it just throws me off completely. Any advice?

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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 8:52 am 
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baconlube wrote:
I notice you're from south korea chief,

Do the techniques you mention apply to asian women too? being asian myself, I find that they have certain differences, i.e. they EXPECT you to pay for things, etc. and it just throws me off completely. Any advice?

Compliance and arousal, the two main pillars of my outer game, apply to human beings regardless of race. The compliance factor actually applies even more to Asian women (in Asia) because they are, culturally, more submissive.

I'm from America and I haven't run into too many problems in terms of paying for things in Korea compared to America. Yes, there are some differences and you'll probably end up draining your wallet if you suck at framing, but if you're coming from the frame of dominance (someone using the compliance ladder), their expectations (for you to pay) won't have that great of an effect on the frame as a whole.

That being said, you'll still have a harder time if you're stingy and refuse to pay for anything. At least go dutch or take turns paying for each other; that's what friends (and friends with benefits) do. For more on getting her to be your friend with benefits: managing-expectations-for-fwb-relationship-vt84488.html

My girlfriend is Korean and we take turns paying whenever we go out to do anything. We started off as FWBs and this frame that determines who pays remained consistent.

Any expectation is essentially an attempt at frame control, and the stronger frame always wins. Generally speaking, the person in the dominant role (giving compliance tests) has the stronger frame.

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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 1:21 pm 
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Hey chief.
I joined a few days ago and have been looking for exactly this. I'm not terribly interested in all of the routines that are associated with some methods, and I'm definitely looking forward to trying out a lot of what you have posted both here and in your other posts.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:10 am 
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looks very interesting. im commenting so i can easily find this post again when i have more time to read it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:47 pm 
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You know this thread is a great refresher.

Everytime I feel like I messed up I come back to the basics and rebuild.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:39 pm 
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I really like this post, great stuff chief keep it up!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:13 am 
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I love the mention of compliance in the original post- I use the compliance ladder all the time as my sales job and I'm telling you the shit works!

If you want to see a compliance ladder taken to extremes , then watch this clip of the master derren brown

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybmOlQRuaYM

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:38 pm 
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Nice post


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:02 pm 
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Man chief, you really are good. I think you already knew this but just wanted to tell this. Thanks. Ill subscribe for this tread for future posts

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:30 pm 
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Mouchtage wrote:
Man chief, you really are good. I think you already knew this but just wanted to tell this. Thanks. Ill subscribe for this tread for future posts

Thanks, but just FYI if I add any additional content I will most likely just edit my original posts which you will not receive email notifications for!

I have already included a "Part II" to this guide as an edit in one of said original posts. You can find a link on the first page if you haven't had a chance to check it out already.

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 Post subject: wondering
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:37 am 
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Hello i was wondering if there was a collection of great pick up lines, openers, routienes and ect.
i have been trough alot of the pua training in BL, aproach, openings, closes ect.
and i have also tried some of them out...

but now im looking for more dry info as said before to get some inspiration and even mabye copy and use some of it. because as i understand everything is laid out on a plate except the talking itself... i understand that it is something i have to improvise at my own and i have no trouble doing it. BUT as said before, its nice to have some inspiration and some memorized lines to get back to if something is going out of hand ;) hope you can help :)

regarts- Dallas


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