The 4-Strike Rule


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 Post subject: The 4-Strike Rule
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:34 am 
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I learned this from Alex RSD and it really accelerated my successes with women. We've all heard about persistence but some of us underestimate the power it has or how long we should actually persist for.

Before you become expertly socially-calibrated a good rule is 4 STRIKES. Basically this means trying everything four separate times.

Example: you approach a girl in a bar. She ignores you and doesn't say a word. That's Strike 1. Approach her again later, same reaction. Strike 2. Now most guys will give up after the Strike 1 and especially after Strike 2. But what if that girl is testing you? What if she's playing hard to get or is just in "club mode" so she's not as receptive as she would normally be? Approach again, this time she replies back but the interactions goes nowhere or she leaves. Strike 3. TRY ONCE MORE BEFORE GIVING UP. After 4 strikes you know that she is not playing hard to get and is legitimately not interested. But there are no "what if?" moments, you know for sure.

3 times, yeah OK a lot of guys might try with a girl 3 times. But just giving is that one extra try, will show a girl that you are very persistent and you will also increase your chances of getting success. Again, do not underestimate the power of persistence.

So let's say you hook a target, spend sometime with her, have fun and you want to go for a kiss. You look into her eyes and confidently lean in to kiss her lips, but at the last second she turns away. DON'T PANIC. That is just Strike 1. Smile and laugh it off. You are both playing a game. If she is spending time with you and you are touching each other, holding hands, eye contact, then she wants to be kissed but many girls do not want to give it up easily, and again, it comes back to persistence. They want a guy to work a little bit for it, and they enjoy the 'chase'. Try to kiss her 3 more times that night. Chances are you'll get it!

Next up, it's getting towards the end of the night and you've screened for logistics. You invite her back to your place, she politely declines. That's Strike 1. You remember that she has good logistics so you suggest going back to hers. She makes up some excuse as to why she can't. That's Strike 2. Suggest it 2 more times, ideally find out what her reservations are (she might have a genuine reason why she can't). But keep pushing anyway.

Let's say she still makes excuses as to why she can't, but now the club has closed and you are both walking outside. You either walk her to her car, or you take her to yours, or you take her to get a taxi. This is when you can get a little bit more physical and use your Leading skills. Try to pull her home. 4 times. You will be surprised how after a bit of confident persistence she will go with you! Remember your persistence comes from a place of desire, not neediness.

If she says no after 4 tries, get her phone # and tell her you're going to call/text her. I prefer calling first but let's say you text her first and she doesn't respond. That's Strike 1. Now with texting you obviously do not want to send 4 rapid-fire texts in a row. Space them out. Send one a few days later, or even a few weeks later or a month. You never know someone's current situation and how she is feeling at the time.

After the final 4th strike, next her.

This is an especially good rule for n00bs/intermediates, and these guys more often than not eject prematurely and give up before they should. The 4-strike rule will teach you persistence, determination and you will maximize your success by hanging in there just a little bit longer than normal. Good luck (you won't need it when implementing the 4-strike rule)


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 Post subject: Re: The 4-Strike Rule
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:12 am 
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CobraKaiDojo wrote:
do not underestimate the power of persistence.


YES.

Women want to know that you aren't going to get your panties in a wad and go crying in the corner because they lightly rebuffed you.

Same thing applies with for instance a number close in a day time setting. Persist in a socially aware manner and from time to time the panties literally get wet because at its base, persistence is a masculine attribute. More guys need to adopt this to find more success. It's a crucial point. Many times you can have an amazing relationship or whatever you want to call it with a woman who initially said "no ty" when you went for the #. An extra 15 seconds of calm back and forth is not going to do anything but improve the chance that you obtain her #.

Guys who are just starting out: Understand that for a woman, the "I don't think so" reply is sometimes a part of the mating dance. They don't want to seem too easy.

"I'll take your #."
"Yes! OMG I'm so excited!" (maybe they're thinking this from time to time but they want to be perceived as cool customers in some instances, so they present you with the initial light rebuff).

Just see the excited look on their face when you smoothly persist for the # after they hand it over to you excitedly. And as they give you a nice big ol' hug as you depart from the interaction.


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 Post subject: Re: The 4-Strike Rule
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:53 am 
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Definitely true, especially if you handle "rejection" well

ex1: You're saying goodbye, see all indicators showing she's up for it, you go for it, she dodges. You're like "shit sorry I thought so... :( You sure? Damn stop giving me fake hints ffs." Then, next time you see her, you try again, she's likely to go "wtf is wrong with you?!"

ex2: You're saying goodbye, feel like kissing would be nice, go for it, she dodges. You don't say anything, kiss her cheek, give her your big shiteating grin, and keep chatting like nothing happened. Next time you see her, you can bet she's more likely to go for it - and even if she doesn't, there is always one more try.

It also work in bed (although it's the kind of advice that's always kinda difficult). If you keep pushing for her panties, it's creepy. But if when you go she pushes back, and you just say "ok :)" and stop - only to try again 10-15mn later, you're golden

I had a girl who did both those exact things in one night

- Avoids kiss
- Avoids kiss
- Avoids kiss
- Kisses, "Wanna go to your place?"
- "We're definitely not having sex tonight"
- "We're definitely not having sex tonight"
- "We're definitely not having sex tonight"
- "Do you have condoms?"

It's hard to pull off, but feels so good when you manage :D

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 Post subject: Re: The 4-Strike Rule
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:09 pm 
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CobraKaiDojo wrote:
Example: you approach a girl in a bar. She ignores you and doesn't say a word. That's Strike 1. Approach her again later, same reaction. Strike 2. Now most guys will give up after the Strike 1 and especially after Strike 2. But what if that girl is testing you?

Testing what, exactly? Do you believe women think to themselves "Hmm. Cute guy. Let me test him first"?
What could this girl possibly be testing? And why?


CobraKaiDojo wrote:
What if she's playing hard to get or is just in "club mode" so she's not as receptive as she would normally be? Approach again, this time she replies back but the interactions goes nowhere or she leaves. Strike 3. TRY ONCE MORE BEFORE GIVING UP. After 4 strikes you know that she is not playing hard to get and is legitimately not interested. But there are no "what if?" moments, you know for sure.

If she's playing hard to get then she can go fuck herself. And I mean that in quite a literal way.
Here's the thing. I'm not saying that this type of persistence doesn't work. It can. However, aside from the fact that it will work less often than it will not, the problem is in the mindset you teach to these guys. Try 4 times? How can you justify that? Ignoring the fact that she's completely unresponsive towards you, twice, how is she going to be worth two more tries?
This is the type of approach that, at it's core, is founded on the idea that women have to be won over. It's salesman mentality. If you can't sell a product, it's either low quality, or you're pitching it to the wrong demographic. Either way, becoming the guy people can't get rid off won't produce any real results.

CobraKaiDojo wrote:
3 times, yeah OK a lot of guys might try with a girl 3 times. But just giving is that one extra try, will show a girl that you are very persistent and you will also increase your chances of getting success. Again, do not underestimate the power of persistence.

Yeah, it will show a girl you're very persistent. That's usually how restraining orders happen. Obviously that's an exaggeration, but it's purpose is to put things into context. Persistence is desirable under some circumstances, not all circumstances.

CobraKaiDojo wrote:
So let's say you hook a target, spend sometime with her, have fun and you want to go for a kiss. You look into her eyes and confidently lean in to kiss her lips, but at the last second she turns away. DON'T PANIC. That is just Strike 1. Smile and laugh it off. You are both playing a game. If she is spending time with you and you are touching each other, holding hands, eye contact, then she wants to be kissed but many girls do not want to give it up easily, and again, it comes back to persistence. They want a guy to work a little bit for it, and they enjoy the 'chase'. Try to kiss her 3 more times that night. Chances are you'll get it!

And there's the context. If she's spending time with you, touching you, being obviously into you, evidently you don't panic and run on a first try. That's entirely different then the girl ignoring you entirely.


CobraKaiDojo wrote:
Next up, it's getting towards the end of the night and you've screened for logistics. You invite her back to your place, she politely declines. That's Strike 1. You remember that she has good logistics so you suggest going back to hers. She makes up some excuse as to why she can't. That's Strike 2. Suggest it 2 more times, ideally find out what her reservations are (she might have a genuine reason why she can't). But keep pushing anyway.

Let's say she still makes excuses as to why she can't, but now the club has closed and you are both walking outside. You either walk her to her car, or you take her to yours, or you take her to get a taxi. This is when you can get a little bit more physical and use your Leading skills. Try to pull her home. 4 times. You will be surprised how after a bit of confident persistence she will go with you! Remember your persistence comes from a place of desire, not neediness.

If she says no after 4 tries, get her phone # and tell her you're going to call/text her. I prefer calling first but let's say you text her first and she doesn't respond. That's Strike 1. Now with texting you obviously do not want to send 4 rapid-fire texts in a row. Space them out. Send one a few days later, or even a few weeks later or a month. You never know someone's current situation and how she is feeling at the time.

In my opinion what will get the girl is charming confidence, not persistence in this case. It's simply a matter of knowing whether she's not interested, or is, but looking for a proper excuse. Give her the excuse she's looking for and you won't need the persist.


CobraKaiDojo wrote:
This is an especially good rule for n00bs/intermediates, and these guys more often than not eject prematurely and give up before they should. The 4-strike rule will teach you persistence, determination and you will maximize your success by hanging in there just a little bit longer than normal. Good luck (you won't need it when implementing the 4-strike rule)


This shouldn't be a rule. It's situational. I agree people starting off tend to give up too soon/too easily, but I don't think that this is the mentality they need to adopt.

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 Post subject: Re: The 4-Strike Rule
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:16 pm 
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R.C wrote:
Testing what, exactly? Do you believe women think to themselves "Hmm. Cute guy. Let me test him first"? What could this girl possibly be testing? And why?


Yes girls will test guys ALL the time. They're testing to see if you're a pussy or not. If you can handle them giving you a bit of cheek. Testing to see how much you really want her. If she is rude to a guy and he gets upset and slinks away after the first approach like a sad sack then her test "worked", except he failed. If her attitude doesn't phase him at all and he keeps returning she will start to think "OK this guy doesn't get shook by anything I do, maybe I'll give him a chance". Even super nice, sweet girls will often act in a rude manner to test a guy. Not because they're rude it's just by habit, they need some way to quickly find out the character of this guy that has approached them.

R.C wrote:
If she's playing hard to get then she can go fuck herself. And I mean that in quite a literal way.
Here's the thing. I'm not saying that this type of persistence doesn't work. It can. However, aside from the fact that it will work less often than it will not, the problem is in the mindset you teach to these guys. Try 4 times? How can you justify that? Ignoring the fact that she's completely unresponsive towards you, twice, how is she going to be worth two more tries?
This is the type of approach that, at it's core, is founded on the idea that women have to be won over. It's salesman mentality. If you can't sell a product, it's either low quality, or you're pitching it to the wrong demographic. Either way, becoming the guy people can't get rid off won't produce any real results.


You have the wrong attitude bro. This is a game and games are supposed to be fun. Desirable girls will sometimes make you work for it, it's normal. I saw a guy approach 2 girls who were in a heated conversation. They ignored him, and he kept approaching. Then they got angry and basically told him to f**k off. He wasn't phased. He kept approaching close to 8-9 times. Eventually they were like both like "OK! what!?" and they instantly warmed up and let him into their conversation and he ran a really good set with them. That is obviously an extreme example but it opened my eyes as to how persistence can work in your favor. Yes this tactic is more catered to n00bs and intermediates (as I stated) because they often eject wayy too early and this teaches them persistence. I also differentiated between persistence coming from a place of desire and not neediness. If your frame is right then it is not a salesman mentality. Like I said I started to incorporate this and I got laid more. Sets that I would've ejected from far earlier I kept going and I was surprised to find out that I would get girls that I would've previously have given up on.


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 Post subject: Re: The 4-Strike Rule
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:24 pm 
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R.C wrote:
Yeah, it will show a girl you're very persistent. That's usually how restraining orders happen. Obviously that's an exaggeration, but it's purpose is to put things into context. Persistence is desirable under some circumstances, not all circumstances.

Now you're just being negative and silly. 4 times is not harassment. It is just enough times for you to know for sure. I did explain the context.

R.C wrote:
And there's the context. If she's spending time with you, touching you, being obviously into you, evidently you don't panic and run on a first try. That's entirely different then the girl ignoring you entirely.

Like I stated before that guy tried around 8 times before the set took him seriously enough (or was so annoyed) that they let him in and gave him a chance. If you want to give up early that's your choice, but just know you may be throwing away opportunities where if you just tried one more time you'd get it.

R.C wrote:
In my opinion what will get the girl is charming confidence, not persistence in this case. It's simply a matter of knowing whether she's not interested, or is, but looking for a proper excuse. Give her the excuse she's looking for and you won't need the persist.

Yes if you're a charming smooth player then use those skills. Not everyone has natural charm. Some guys have none. But you know what they do have? Persistence, and they get laid all the time. Also some girls are not swayed by charm. They might be looking for something completely different.

R.C wrote:
This shouldn't be a rule. It's situational. I agree people starting off tend to give up too soon/too easily, but I don't think that this is the mentality they need to adopt.

Yes they do. This was taught to me by one of the best cold-approach pickup artists in the world and the stuff he taught me took me from an intermediate to an advanced level. Obviously yes situations matter. If you approach a girl once and she verbally abuses her then you might not want to approach her again, but this teaches guys that a girl's first reaction (or even third reaction) is not necessarily the final one. If you don't let it. After four, stop. That way you're not harassing anyone.

I'll also say this. I speak to a lot of people. The amount of times I've asked a girl the story of how she met her current bf/husband, and she said something like "Yeah, I was not attracted to him at first. Not AT ALL. But y'know, he kept talking to me and hitting me up, and eventually I gave him a chance. Now we're in love. I was not expecting that".

Do not underestimate the power of persistence.


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 Post subject: Re: The 4-Strike Rule
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:36 pm 
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I see your viewpoint OP and depending on if the girl is worth all the hassle, I would agree with this. Like I said, depends on whether it will be worth the hassle.

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 Post subject: Re: The 4-Strike Rule
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:33 pm 
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Yes true, but honestly it's not that much hassle, and I assume you'd be talking to girls that you want to kiss.


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 Post subject: Re: The 4-Strike Rule
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:24 pm 
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Naked Truth wrote:
Definitely true, especially if you handle "rejection" well

ex1: You're saying goodbye, see all indicators showing she's up for it, you go for it, she dodges. You're like "shit sorry I thought so... :( You sure? Damn stop giving me fake hints ffs." Then, next time you see her, you try again, she's likely to go "wtf is wrong with you?!"

ex2: You're saying goodbye, feel like kissing would be nice, go for it, she dodges. You don't say anything, kiss her cheek, give her your big shiteating grin, and keep chatting like nothing happened. Next time you see her, you can bet she's more likely to go for it - and even if she doesn't, there is always one more try.


This x 100,000.

Patience, and not fearing outcome, and remaining emotionally-centered drives women fucking crazy.

A man who can keep his cool and charm in the face of rejection is a man who will have sex many, many times in his life.

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 Post subject: Re: The 4-Strike Rule
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:48 pm 
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RC on point. You know that creepers out there are the ones with this persistence right? The friend one guys are the best at patience. Sure...you can get a chick after trying 4 times. Sure there are guys who are in the friend zone for years who the girl ends up with. But as RC said that's not the norm or likely scenario. If a chick feels the need to like you but reject you 4 times to test whether you'll come back... Jeez can't even finish that. This is just bad advice coming from Rsd again.


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 Post subject: Re: The 4-Strike Rule
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:34 am 
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I disagree. It's all about the frame, and yes desirable girls will often make a guy work for it. "Nothing worth having comes easy". At the end of the day - implementing this rule will get you laid more and will improve your PU skills. Whatever your opinion of RSD is, they consistently pull really hot girls. So if you want the same results it will help you to learn their methods (even if you disagree or don't want to use them - they work). Also because you set 4 strikes as the limit then you are also showing a willingness to walk away, girls can often sense that, and it's a powerful stance.

Creepers don't know when to give up, that's the difference between creepiness and persistence.


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 Post subject: Re: The 4-Strike Rule
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:49 am 
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CobraKaiDojo wrote:
I disagree. It's all about the frame, and yes desirable girls will often make a guy work for it. "Nothing worth having comes easy". At the end of the day - implementing this rule will get you laid more and will improve your PU skills. Whatever your opinion of RSD is, they consistently pull really hot girls. So if you want the same results it will help you to learn their methods (even if you disagree or don't want to use them - they work). Also because you set 4 strikes as the limit then you are also showing a willingness to walk away, girls can often sense that, and it's a powerful stance.

Creepers don't know when to give up, that's the difference between creepiness and persistence.


First, I'll never say that persistence doesnt TECHNICALLY get you laid more. It does. TECHNICALLY. Same way if you persist on 100 flakes, you'll prob get to lay 1 of them which you won't have if you had left. The problem however, is TIME. You have limited time, and if you give every chick who rejects you, 4 more go's, you're wasting time. That's 4 approaches for 1 cold chick. Just do 4 other approaches. Also, it's not like approaching 4 times to get a good opening, gets you further than opening another chick and getting a good opening off the bat. The chicks who you need 4 tries to open, it becomes you need 4 tries to kiss, 4 tries to get the number, 4 tries to pull. They will continue to "test" you. You're choosing to divert time from other opportunities into an already rocky one. For opening, its bad advice as more time is being wasted with little payoff. Now, if later you need some persistence, thats fine to an extent...you may have to reengage a chick you fucked to get her to come out again. You may have to send the occasional ping...in this case, you're wasting 10 seconds for a text message and you're home doing some bs. But opening again and again and again and again...that's wasting time for hopefully a good reaction, and then more "tests" to come.

Another thing, if you want to be persistent, and give chicks 4 go's...fine. But dont fool yourself that its your "patience" that impressed her, or that you persisting was this attractive thing. For eg, if you approach a chick 4 times at a bar, and she's rejecting you all night, and the 4th time you get to pull her home, great. But dont fool yourself that she thinks you're so emotionally centered and was attracted to you passing her "tests." She came out, the guys she wanted to fuck it failed, and you come at the right time and she's more liquored up and says "fuck it, I'll go with him." Nothing more, nothing less. Some flakes will come back because the guy they liked dumped them so they finally respond to you. Some chicks will go with the friendzoned guy because they players broke her heart.

And yes, there is a difference between "flirting" and chasing. Chick is talking to you and holding your hands and acting coy about kissing...sure that's the game. But taking rejection on the opening and giving that 3 more tries...just find another chick. If you're chained to the bar and she's the only attractive chick in there...go ahead, try try try. If there are other potentials, and you're approaching her again, instead of a new chick, you're wasting time. It's not "powerful"...it's chasing. And yeah, some girls want to be chased 4 times for some game in their mind. If I told you to offer every chick $100 for a date, you'd get laid from that eventually. One of this chicks, would fuck you. But just dont think it was due to you coming from a place of power...you're just playing the numbers.


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 Post subject: Re: The 4-Strike Rule
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:22 am 
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What is this "wasting time" silliness? Are you timing yourself for doing laps around the club? Do you have such a busy schedule that you need to leave the bar by a certain time to go work on a physics thesis? 4 approaches could literally take you less a minute (hopefully the conversations go for longer than that though). And again, it will maximize your chances and it will also strengthen your resolve, which is building up your attractive traits. It is also a good feeling that you knew you did everything you could before nexting a girl.

And yea look, if you're in a packed club with hundreds of girls, then yeah sure go approach other girls if you get rejected and don't feel the need to persist. I did not say try this on every single girl, but if it's someone that you think will be worth a bit of extra effort then maintain some persistence.

If you need to do every step 4 times, then yes you're probably with the wrong girl (but doesn't mean you can't persist and sleep with her). A more realistic scenario would be: maybe approach twice, try to kiss twice, try to pull home 3 times before she agrees. All I"m saying is try that extra one time more before you decide to give up. The potential reward (and opportunity for growth) is worth the minuscule amount of risk/time.

Anyone who underestimates the power of persistence does not properly comprehend it.


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 Post subject: Re: The 4-Strike Rule
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:48 am 
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CobraKaiDojo wrote:
Yes girls will test guys ALL the time. They're testing to see if you're a pussy or not. If you can handle them giving you a bit of cheek. Testing to see how much you really want her. If she is rude to a guy and he gets upset and slinks away after the first approach like a sad sack then her test "worked", except he failed. If her attitude doesn't phase him at all and he keeps returning she will start to think "OK this guy doesn't get shook by anything I do, maybe I'll give him a chance". Even super nice, sweet girls will often act in a rude manner to test a guy. Not because they're rude it's just by habit, they need some way to quickly find out the character of this guy that has approached them.

Some women play games. Implying most do, all the time? No, they don't.
There's a difference between being cheeky and being bitchy and standoffish. One is in good fun, the other is clear disinterest. Neither are "testing". She's either flirting with you or trying to get you to leave.
Ofcourse her attitude shouldn't phase you but her being slightly snarky and her being rude are not the same.


CobraKaiDojo wrote:
You have the wrong attitude bro. This is a game and games are supposed to be fun. Desirable girls will sometimes make you work for it, it's normal. I saw a guy approach 2 girls who were in a heated conversation. They ignored him, and he kept approaching. Then they got angry and basically told him to f**k off. He wasn't phased. He kept approaching close to 8-9 times. Eventually they were like both like "OK! what!?" and they instantly warmed up and let him into their conversation and he ran a really good set with them. That is obviously an extreme example but it opened my eyes as to how persistence can work in your favor. Yes this tactic is more catered to n00bs and intermediates (as I stated) because they often eject wayy too early and this teaches them persistence. I also differentiated between persistence coming from a place of desire and not neediness.



Yes OP, persistence can work in your favor. That doesn't mean it will. You yourself realize this example is extreme. It's the equivalent of my saying "Bill Gates drop out of college and look how much success he has. So guys, drop out.".
I get what you're saying, with newbies being inclined to give up very quickly, but they do that out of fear and lack of experience. They can persist all they want, they'll do it in the same fearful manner. Neediness is not something they can just switch off.


CobraKaiDojo wrote:
If your frame is right then it is not a salesman mentality. Like I said I started to incorporate this and I got laid more. Sets that I would've ejected from far earlier I kept going and I was surprised to find out that I would get girls that I would've previously have given up on.


Right, but you just said that the advice is for newbies and intermediates. Your frame may be right, but you have the experience to maintain it. They don't.

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 Post subject: Re: The 4-Strike Rule
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:08 am 
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R.C wrote:
Some women play games. Implying most do, all the time? No, they don't.
There's a difference between being cheeky and being bitchy and standoffish. One is in good fun, the other is clear disinterest. Neither are "testing". She's either flirting with you or trying to get you to leave.
Of course her attitude shouldn't phase you but her being slightly snarky and her being rude are not the same.

Clear disinterest can be completely turned around with persistence. A girl who blows you off (even more than once) can still end up in your bed. Again it comes down to risk/reward. The potential rewards outweigh the basically zero risk. And girls will always be testing you in one way or another. Even your GF or wife that you've been with for years will probably throw subconscious tests at you once in a while. It should expected and endured. Tests never end, and if you're not getting any then you're not recognizing them or putting yourself out there enough.

CobraKaiDojo wrote:
Yes OP, persistence can work in your favor. That doesn't mean it will. You yourself realize this example is extreme. It's the equivalent of my saying "Bill Gates drop out of college and look how much success he has. So guys, drop out.".
I get what you're saying, with newbies being inclined to give up very quickly, but they do that out of fear and lack of experience. They can persist all they want, they'll do it in the same fearful manner. Neediness is not something they can just switch off.


This 4-strike rule is training for eliminating neediness. If you know when you will walk away and you stick to that, then you eventually will not come off as needy. You persist, do everything that you possibly can, and then you walk away. Doing this repeatedly gives you MORE experience. This should be obvious.


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