"Just be yourself." and "Just be confident"


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:07 am 
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99% of the guys that I've met through pickup, decided to ask a woman for tips before they went anywhere else, and while this is a fucking terrible idea for many reasons, it would actually be gold if guys knew how to take the advice. But instead, they eventually come to the realisation that what the woman said was bullshit... so they spend a year reading PUA books and watching RSD infields, before making their first approach and getting rejected... at which point they either start a PUA hate blog, or they're a little tougher and they go right back in... lol.

The typical advice from women is actually right, though:

1. Just be yourself
She's not wrong - you'll get your best results when you're authentic and decisive, and doing shit because you want to do it rather than doing it because Style told you to on a YouTube video or some shit, at which point it's needy and reaction seeking bullshit which only increases your investment in her and makes you act like a fucking weirdo... also how are you supposed to ever have any confidence in yourself, if you're not even being yourself? Which brings me onto the second part:

2. Just be confident
Talk to women, learn to enjoy rejection because you know it's a numbers game and you're a catch so you'll always have a crazy amount of options, enjoy being alone instead of trying to lock down the first woman you meet, set some goals and achieve them.

I'm not gonna go into too much detail, but I've been thinking for a while about how fucking ironic it is that the very first advice we get turns out to be the best, in my opinion. Most other advice from women is terrible Disney film type shit, but those two pieces right there are better than anything you'll ever learn from Mystery or Style... crazy.

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:35 am 
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"Just be yourself" is really saying "Don't give off the appearance that you are trying to be something you are not for deceptive purposes". And "be confident" is really just saying "Be smooth with women". Those two things would be the equivalent of a guy telling a women A) Just be hot, and B) Don't be crazy.

But you are right about women offering no insights to men on the subject. I asked this women I know really well the other day if when a guy approaches her, would she be flattered by a compliment about her appearance, or would the guy be better off making some other comment as his opening line. She couldn't answer, and was acting like it was a trick question or something. "Um, not sure...it depends." :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:38 am 
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puaninja wrote:
"Just be yourself" is really saying "Don't give off the appearance that you are trying to be something you are not for deceptive purposes". And "be confident" is really just saying "Be smooth with women". Those two things would be the equivalent of a guy telling a women A) Just be hot, and B) Don't be crazy.
I definitely didn't read it this way. I'm curious if you can elaborate on what you mean by "Don't give off the appearance that you are trying to be something you are not for deceptive purposes?" I'm not sure if you are saying that the act in itself is being deceptive or don't be deceptive.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 2:00 am 
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I somewhat disagree JD, its an interesting thread and my views could be wrong but I'll just say how I see it:

Quote:
1. Just be yourself
She's not wrong - you'll get your best results when you're authentic and decisive, and doing shit because you want to do it rather than doing it because Style told you to on a YouTube video or some shit, at which point it's needy and reaction seeking bullshit which only increases your investment in her and makes you act like a fucking weirdo... also how are you supposed to ever have any confidence in yourself, if you're not even being yourself? Which brings me onto the second part:


I wont say you'll get your best results when you're authentic. You'll be happier sure, but I dont like saying that you'll have the success with women that you want because you're authentic. If your goal is to sleep with a new women or 2 every week, you wont get that automatically from being authentic. There is a distinction in my mind between "sex goals" and happiness. And sure, I'd rather a guy be happy, but that depends on what he wants.

Quote:
2. Just be confident
Talk to women, learn to enjoy rejection because you know it's a numbers game and you're a catch so you'll always have a crazy amount of options, enjoy being alone instead of trying to lock down the first woman you meet, set some goals and achieve them.


Personally, I dont think you should think you're a catch unless you ARE a catch. If you have not put in the effort or the work, you dont deserve what other men have put in to get the success they get with women. I'd rather you be un-confident because you're at a certain place hence you work to get somewhere better, than confident for no reason. The first way you have something to work towards which will make you actually confident with stuff to back it up.

hope that makes sense, rushing


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 2:37 am 
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neo87 wrote:
I somewhat disagree JD, its an interesting thread and my views could be wrong but I'll just say how I see it:

Quote:
1. Just be yourself
She's not wrong - you'll get your best results when you're authentic and decisive, and doing shit because you want to do it rather than doing it because Style told you to on a YouTube video or some shit, at which point it's needy and reaction seeking bullshit which only increases your investment in her and makes you act like a fucking weirdo... also how are you supposed to ever have any confidence in yourself, if you're not even being yourself? Which brings me onto the second part:


I wont say you'll get your best results when you're authentic. You'll be happier sure, but I dont like saying that you'll have the success with women that you want because you're authentic. If your goal is to sleep with a new women or 2 every week, you wont get that automatically from being authentic. There is a distinction in my mind between "sex goals" and happiness. And sure, I'd rather a guy be happy, but that depends on what he wants.
I agree with both JD and neo on this. You can be yourself but that's not going to get you too far if you're not socially aware and know how to present yourself in a positive manner. Being yourself isn't quite enough but that's the foundation that you have to start with.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 2:59 am 
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JackZero wrote:
neo87 wrote:
I somewhat disagree JD, its an interesting thread and my views could be wrong but I'll just say how I see it:

Quote:
1. Just be yourself
She's not wrong - you'll get your best results when you're authentic and decisive, and doing shit because you want to do it rather than doing it because Style told you to on a YouTube video or some shit, at which point it's needy and reaction seeking bullshit which only increases your investment in her and makes you act like a fucking weirdo... also how are you supposed to ever have any confidence in yourself, if you're not even being yourself? Which brings me onto the second part:


I wont say you'll get your best results when you're authentic. You'll be happier sure, but I dont like saying that you'll have the success with women that you want because you're authentic. If your goal is to sleep with a new women or 2 every week, you wont get that automatically from being authentic. There is a distinction in my mind between "sex goals" and happiness. And sure, I'd rather a guy be happy, but that depends on what he wants.
I agree with both JD and neo on this. You can be yourself but that's not going to get you too far if you're not socially aware and know how to present yourself in a positive manner. Being yourself isn't quite enough but that's the foundation that you have to start with.



The main problem that I find with "be yourself" is that it's never taken as "be the best version of yourself" but instead, it's used as a justification for bad habits etc "well yea I text her 12 times today even though she hadn't replied, but that's just who I am! You said to be myself!" kind of thing.

I agree that it's fairly pointless to tell yourself that you're a catch if you're not, and should've elaborated a little more on the part about goals etc.. that was intented as a way to actually become a catch and boost your confidence; get in shape, work on your career, learn to drive, buy a house or whatever... but that leads to a whole new box of required explanations about not just doing that stuff to get laid haha

Now I'm curious as to whether it's more about changing your default setting so that "be yourself" means something completely different to you after a while... maybe that's what I've done (or am doing) ...maybe that's more accurate

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 3:25 am 
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Quote:
The main problem that I find with "be yourself" is that it's never taken as "be the best version of yourself" but instead, it's used as a justification for bad habits etc "well yea I text her 12 times today even though she hadn't replied, but that's just who I am! You said to be myself!" kind of thing.


Its a tricky topic and I dunno...there's a weird line between this stuff. Like "be the best version of yourself"...I'm ok with, but then again I see nothing wrong with "fake it till you make it"...which Ive always just taken as act the way you'd like to be until it's natural. Never taken it as to just keep pretending to be something you're not..because the line itself says "TILL YOU MAKE IT."

As to:
Quote:
you'll get your best results when you're authentic and decisive, and doing shit because you want to do it rather than doing it because Style told you to on a YouTube video or some shit, at which point it's needy and reaction seeking bullshit which only increases your investment in her and makes you act like a fucking weirdo...


I dont think being inauthentic makes you act like a weirdo...I think if you're a weird guy, you're a weird guy. Met guys who are inauthentic and they're chill..met guys who are authentic and they're weird. Your sense of natural sense of humor may be weird, your fashion sense may be weird, your movements may be naturally weird. Maybe even the best version of yourself is weird?

I dunno JD and Jack...this is a tricky topic and I honestly have no idea what the right thing is. How far does someone change before they're being inauthentic? How far can being yourself get you?

As a side note, ive thought of girl advice like this as just being a difference in objectives and options. A chick has more options, so her goals are different. She typically isnt thinking "how can I fuck and get as many men"...chicks mostly know they can fuck, hence they just want to be happy. So from a chicks point of view, being yourself is good because she doesnt want to or have to compromise her happiness over anything else. Its kinda like if you're broke and you meet a billionaire. If you ask him for advice, he's coming from a point of view where he's comfortable financially, and is more concerned with being happy. So he'll say something like "enjoy life" which you wouldnt understand because you're starving.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:19 am 
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neo87 wrote:
I dunno JD and Jack...this is a tricky topic and I honestly have no idea what the right thing is. How far does someone change before they're being inauthentic? How far can being yourself get you?
You'll get all sorts of people telling you different things amongst this. IMO, it's always easier to start with what you know and to me that starts with yourself. It can also be argued that the inauthentic version of yourself can eventually become a genuine version of yourself because you'll build new experiences. Different paths can get you to the same destination.

The problem I normally have with a lot of PUA is that guys want to do what worked for a different guy or say that if you want to be successful, do what I did. To me, that limits your success because you're trusting that the guy that's saying to be like him when he probably isn't sure what he's talking about and may not allow for you to take advantage of your strengths.

But yeah...this is a deeper subject that I've always wanted to approach but I ain't eloquent enough to pull it off.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:53 am 
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neo87 wrote:

I wont say you'll get your best results when you're authentic. You'll be happier sure, but I dont like saying that you'll have the success with women that you want because you're authentic. If your goal is to sleep with a new women or 2 every week, you wont get that automatically from being authentic. There is a distinction in my mind between "sex goals" and happiness. And sure, I'd rather a guy be happy, but that depends on what he wants.



So what are you proposing?

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:32 am 
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JackZero wrote:
The problem I normally have with a lot of PUA is that guys want to do what worked for a different guy or say that if you want to be successful, do what I did. To me, that limits your success because you're trusting that the guy that's saying to be like him when he probably isn't sure what he's talking about and may not allow for you to take advantage of your strengths.
This is why I've been unsure of taking some peoples advice on this site. While some give great advice and suggest what you should say based on the situation, others tell you what they would. This is something that may well work for them, but it isn't going to work for everyone.

I also agree with op as this is what I'm aspiring to be. A confident, best version of myself. I can't understand why anyone would want to pretend to be someone they're not, in order to attract women they aren't really compatible with. Plenty of other women around who would be compatible with his true personality. He just need to be able to display who he really is with confidence.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 11:58 am 
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Autoregressive wrote:
neo87 wrote:

I wont say you'll get your best results when you're authentic. You'll be happier sure, but I dont like saying that you'll have the success with women that you want because you're authentic. If your goal is to sleep with a new women or 2 every week, you wont get that automatically from being authentic. There is a distinction in my mind between "sex goals" and happiness. And sure, I'd rather a guy be happy, but that depends on what he wants.



So what are you proposing?


I wish I could tell a guy, hey be yourself, and you'll find a girl or a few who you're compatible with (even if you're weird) and you'll be happy. But many guys want to bang as many girls as they can. So that advice doesnt give them the results they are looking for. Personally, I dont have a problem with someone using routines because the original goal of a routine is to practice the delivery. I think that someone whether they're authentic or not, once they get the success they wanted, will end up more or less in the same place. So a guy can start using routines, get some success and then come to the realization that his happiness is important and drop them.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 1:22 pm 
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J.Daniels wrote:
The typical advice from women is actually right, though:


It's right in a way that's too vastly oversimplified to be of any use.

Just be yourself makes sense, of course it does. (Well, except for all the guys having success by lying their pants off.)

But what does that mean? I'm not the same guy I was when I started pickup, and the guy I was then went a decade without a single date. The guy I am now is too busy to put the time in, but I somehow managed to pull a stripper. (For reference, being whiny and needy over a different stripper is what led me into pickup in the first place.)

So yeah, be you... but maybe change who you are in ways that help with women.

Confidence is even more complicated. Look at the debate in this thread, "fake it till you make it" or "actually have success to be confident."

It's not something you flip on like a switch. One of my female friends was telling me I needed to be confident the other night and listed off all the reasons I should be confident. Except it bounced off the huge negative attitude I have. Sure I make good money and people seem to like me, but I still lack confidence especially in social situations.

The way I view PUA is part of developing who you are and developing confidence in your social skills. It essentially works at providing the detail the "generic womens' advice" glosses over. Kinda like for dieting you can just say "calories in vs. calories out" or you can use MyFitnessPal to track how much you're eating and a program like Stronglifts or Starting Strength to get stronger and increase your calorie burn.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 1:59 pm 
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This is kind of a general reply to every comment... but it's tricky for me because I'm also a huge fan of the whole "fake it til you make it" idea. But I wouldn't say that's not being yourself...

Pretend I'm on day 1 on the forum for a second, lets imagine I'm a 21 year old socially awkward overweight virgin with no job asking for tips, my hobbies are playing videogames, unsuccessfully using online dating sites and I like to play around on Photoshop in my spare time, but my goal is to meet a lot more women and eventually settle down when I like one enough, and I just don't have the confidence to talk to women...
If I join a gym, take some public speaking classes, get a part time job, go back to college, start wearing better fitting clothes and going to bars and all that stuff because it's giving me experience with talking to women and working on my social skills, I'd say that's still being myself... but there's a grey area which in my opinion is in your motive for certain actions, and makes it easy to kid yourself; for example studying psychology because you want to work in the field is building your confidence and becoming a better version of yourself, but doing it because you think it's what women want and it'll make you more interesting is a lot different.

One thing that I definitely do not want to encourage, is "well J Daniels said to just be yourself, so I don't need to change, it's the women that need to change and start being attracted to me how I am" because that's definitely not what I'm saying, at all.

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:00 pm 
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This whole notion of being yourself is problematic because most people don't know what that actually means. I still don't know what it means myself. I find that congruence is more important than trying to be yourself. You're going to appear to "be yourself" more when you're congruent. Your nonverbals need to match what you say to convey authenticity.

"Faking it till you make it" is a forceful way to make yourself congruent. You're actually forcing yourself to be very incongruent at the beginning and repeating it enough times till it becomes a new habit that's hopefully congruent. It's a brute force method, in my opinion. That doesn't make it any less effective, but it's only one way of going about it.

The way I've coached it is more about accepting your current state (usually anxiety) to the point where you can relax and allow that state to exist in your body. This is about practicing relaxation rather than force (or willpower). If you can just be OK with your negative state and relax into it, odds are once you take action you'll be able to let it go and perform better. Often the anxiety goes away quickly once you get the ball rolling. This is about working with the fear of anxiety in a pressure situation more than anything else.

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 6:03 pm 
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jasonm wrote:
This whole notion of being yourself is problematic because most people don't know what that actually means. I still don't know what it means myself.
Everyone has their core personality that they've spent from the day that they were born until this moment. That is who you are. What does that mean when it comes from a pickup perspective? There are guys that love to advocate the cocky/funny persona, but that is only effective if the guy is actually cocky and funny. It may work with enough practice but until then you have to force a change on yourself that doesn't match your full personality. You see it with a lot of the guys on the forum that will be talking to a girl in a cocky/funny way and when she responds with banter or questioning his personality, he's trying figure out how to respond to a "shit test" because it's not really him.

Your core personality/experiences build up your belief system. A guy that's not good with women tend to believe that who he is right now isn't attractive to women rather than trying to maximize and project his masculine strengths that he already possesses.


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