"Just be yourself." and "Just be confident"


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 6:12 pm 
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JackZero wrote:
jasonm wrote:
This whole notion of being yourself is problematic because most people don't know what that actually means. I still don't know what it means myself.
Everyone has their core personality that they've spent from the day that they were born until this moment. That is who you are. What does that mean when it comes from a pickup perspective? There are guys that love to advocate the cocky/funny persona, but that is only effective if the guy is actually cocky and funny. It may work with enough practice but until then you have to force a change on yourself that doesn't match your full personality. You see it with a lot of the guys on the forum that will be talking to a girl in a cocky/funny way and when she responds with banter or questioning his personality, he's trying figure out how to respond to a "shit test" because it's not really him.

Your core personality/experiences build up your belief system. A guy that's not good with women tend to believe that who he is right now isn't attractive to women rather than trying to maximize and project his masculine strengths that he already possesses.


I agree with what you're saying and you're also making my point. That core personality you're referring to is actually hard to access and understand to begin with. You can say a guy is a shy introvert, but so what? In fact, I argue it's not helpful at all even referring to it. Your cocky/funny example is also a good example of incongruence, which by definition is inauthentic. To project your natural masculine strengths, you have to be relaxed and congruent. There are no two ways about it. The shy introvert needs to learn over time that it's actually not dangerous to relax and express his masculinity. So where's the core personality in that? Is it the shy introvert or the confident guy he grows into over time?

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:14 pm 
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jasonm wrote:
I agree with what you're saying and you're also making my point. That core personality you're referring to is actually hard to access and understand to begin with.
You're core personality IS you. There is nothing hard to access about it. The hard part is accepting it, if anything.
jasonm wrote:
You can say a guy is a shy introvert, but so what? In fact, I argue it's not helpful at all even referring to it.
I don't see it this way. Point it out and accept it. Now that you've accepted it, make a game plan on how you want to approach women while recognizing the fact that you're not going to be an over-the-top person because you know that's not you.
jasonm wrote:
Your cocky/funny example is also a good example of incongruence, which by definition is inauthentic. To project your natural masculine strengths, you have to be relaxed and congruent.
Now wouldn't that be a lot easier if you accepted who you are?
jasonm wrote:
There are no two ways about it. The shy introvert needs to learn over time that it's actually not dangerous to relax and express his masculinity. So where's the core personality in that? Is it the shy introvert or the confident guy he grows into over time?
That's exactly what their core personality is if we use your description. Introversion is not a problem, but shyness is the result of not accepting one's self and in turn not believing that others will be accepting. Once you are comfortable and accepting of yourself, you can be relaxed and congruent.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 10:22 pm 
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JackZero wrote:
jasonm wrote:
I agree with what you're saying and you're also making my point. That core personality you're referring to is actually hard to access and understand to begin with.
You're core personality IS you. There is nothing hard to access about it. The hard part is accepting it, if anything.
jasonm wrote:
You can say a guy is a shy introvert, but so what? In fact, I argue it's not helpful at all even referring to it.
I don't see it this way. Point it out and accept it. Now that you've accepted it, make a game plan on how you want to approach women while recognizing the fact that you're not going to be an over-the-top person because you know that's not you.
jasonm wrote:
Your cocky/funny example is also a good example of incongruence, which by definition is inauthentic. To project your natural masculine strengths, you have to be relaxed and congruent.
Now wouldn't that be a lot easier if you accepted who you are?
jasonm wrote:
There are no two ways about it. The shy introvert needs to learn over time that it's actually not dangerous to relax and express his masculinity. So where's the core personality in that? Is it the shy introvert or the confident guy he grows into over time?
That's exactly what their core personality is if we use your description. Introversion is not a problem, but shyness is the result of not accepting one's self and in turn not believing that others will be accepting. Once you are comfortable and accepting of yourself, you can be relaxed and congruent.
We don't have to belabor the point. I see where you're coming from. And I'm not disagreeing with you. It's probably more about how we're labeling things and the context of our viewpoints. For me, especially when coaching, it's easier to not try to define or access the big question of who a man is. Identity tends to emerge on its own as a result of growth. It's also easier for me if we keep the labels, like shy and introvert, at bay to prevent any strong self-identification. Relaxation into simply being is accessing who you are. But who you are in that context starts to become rather undefined in my experience. It becomes a deep conversation about the nature of consciousness pretty quickly, and that tends to be a less productive thing to talk about.

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 10:40 pm 
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JackZero wrote:
puaninja wrote:
"Just be yourself" is really saying "Don't give off the appearance that you are trying to be something you are not for deceptive purposes". And "be confident" is really just saying "Be smooth with women". Those two things would be the equivalent of a guy telling a women A) Just be hot, and B) Don't be crazy.
I definitely didn't read it this way. I'm curious if you can elaborate on what you mean by "Don't give off the appearance that you are trying to be something you are not for deceptive purposes?" I'm not sure if you are saying that the act in itself is being deceptive or don't be deceptive.

If you are trying to deceive the woman into thinking you are something that you are not, and the deception shows through, she'll pick up on it. That's why I said don't give that "appearance". You can indeed deceive a woman as long as you don't look like you are doing it.

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 11:06 pm 
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I really don't think deception is the way to go. It can be done, but it really isn't necessary. Just like playing hard to get can work, but being hard to get is the correct way.

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 11:28 pm 
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jasonm wrote:
We don't have to belabor the point. I see where you're coming from. And I'm not disagreeing with you. It's probably more about how we're labeling things and the context of our viewpoints. For me, especially when coaching, it's easier to not try to define or access the big question of who a man is. Identity tends to emerge on its own as a result of growth. It's also easier for me if we keep the labels, like shy and introvert, at bay to prevent any strong self-identification. Relaxation into simply being is accessing who you are. But who you are in that context starts to become rather undefined in my experience. It becomes a deep conversation about the nature of consciousness pretty quickly, and that tends to be a less productive thing to talk about.
I hear you and I don't hold the title of coach, so I don't have the OTJ experience to say what's better or worse from a coaching standpoint. If I were talking to a friend or being a mentor that is trying to help a guy out with women, I couldn't give that narrow of a view to my approach to women. However, some of the best coaches that I've heard of all have one thing in common...they take the guy and work with who he is and build from that point. The worst coaches tell you what you have to be (not implying that's what you do).


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 11:33 pm 
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puaninja wrote:
You can indeed deceive a woman as long as you don't look like you are doing it.
Don't get me wrong, I've deceived my share of women in a lot of different ways and when I look back at it none of it was really necessary. In fact, deception eventually comes out when you actually like a woman and then you spend time trying to recover and that's why I don't think it's worth it. I'm cool with manipulating situations but tricking women into thinking that you're something that you're not isn't something that I'd advise.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 12:30 am 
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JackZero wrote:
puaninja wrote:
You can indeed deceive a woman as long as you don't look like you are doing it.
Don't get me wrong, I've deceived my share of women in a lot of different ways and when I look back at it none of it was really necessary. In fact, deception eventually comes out when you actually like a woman and then you spend time trying to recover and that's why I don't think it's worth it. I'm cool with manipulating situations but tricking women into thinking that you're something that you're not isn't something that I'd advise.


This.

There's the odd situation where you're left with the choice between lying and hurting her "do you love me?" in which situation I might come out with something like "It's weird that you need to ask, ha" which kinda makes me a dick, but I am useless in those situations, lol.

^ I'm not in that specific situation currently with a girl, but I've had it in the past and I've always given that kind of indirect lie and felt kinda harsh afterwards.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:57 am 
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Somehow the point I was making got turned into me advocating deceiving women in order to best game them. But that's not really what I was trying to say.

What I meant was that the benefit of being yourself, as it is a trait women apparently like, is because it is ABSENT of deception. Sure, you can be deceptive too, and it may or may not work better in some situations. However, it's not the authentic "YOU" that they actually like per se. It's the fact that you are representing yourself as someone who is not hiding a hidden agenda or skeletons in his closet. They want an easy to read guy with no complications. It makes it that much easier for them to manipulate and is less threatening.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 4:59 am 
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Da wrote:
For all the people saying to "be yourself," what do you advise people who need character development? Just trying to make this a pragmatic discussion.
By starting to be the best version of their selves. Work on being presentable with your style. Learn how to be likable (I recommend reading the book "the like switch"). Join some meet up groups and force yourself to be social and socially aware.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 5:15 am 
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neo87 wrote:
I wish I could tell a guy, hey be yourself, and you'll find a girl or a few who you're compatible with (even if you're weird) and you'll be happy. But many guys want to bang as many girls as they can. So that advice doesnt give them the results they are looking for. Personally, I dont have a problem with someone using routines because the original goal of a routine is to practice the delivery. I think that someone whether they're authentic or not, once they get the success they wanted, will end up more or less in the same place. So a guy can start using routines, get some success and then come to the realization that his happiness is important and drop them.


I see what you meant. What if changing back also stalls his success with women again? Also, at what point does it help to point him away from trying to sleep with as many girls as possible (which I think won't really make anyone happy) and get him to start working on some real self-improvement? Lastly, does being unauthentic/routines (which ones?) really even work any better than being your (not-so-attractive) self?

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 7:02 am 
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Excellent posting as always JD.

Another one of women's advices "have a sense of humor" actually means "make me laugh cutely."

It doesn't mean to be some Night at the Improv supplicant court jester.

It means "be a smooth dude who knows how to make a woman giggle."


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:52 am 
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oceanx wrote:
Excellent posting as always JD.

Another one of women's advices "have a sense of humor" actually means "make me laugh cutely."

It doesn't mean to be some Night at the Improv supplicant court jester.

It means "be a smooth dude who knows how to make a woman giggle."


Thanks. I forgot that one. A lot of the best advice actually comes from women, but the thing is that it doesn't make sense because firstly the guy doesn't understand it, and secondly the woman doesn't even understand it because women typically don't understand what they're attracted to vs what they want.

And DA, if a guy is changing into the guy that he wants to be then you could argue that he's being himself... but if a guy is (for example) pretending to be a bad boy because he heard a certain girl likes badboys... he's not being himself and he's definitely not confident.

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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:36 pm 
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I see zero difference between fake it til you make it and "becoming your best self" outside of whether you think dr Phil would wag his finger at it.

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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 8:08 pm 
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DJ_Z wrote:
I see zero difference between fake it til you make it and "becoming your best self" outside of whether you think dr Phil would wag his finger at it.



There is no difference. It's all in the motive, in my opinion. If you wanted to fuck your nextdoor neighbour so you pretended to like the music that she likes and pretended to be a gangster because her ex is one... that's a lot different than going to the gym or taking dance classes because you believe they make you a more attractive guy. I hope you get my point.

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