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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:35 am 
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JackZero wrote:
neo87 wrote:
Wrong Jack....as long as he keeps banging her and isn't dumped what else matters? Better to be able to get a wide range of women even the possibly fucked up ones, than the women on the same page as you. Abundance means YOU can fit FIT a wide variety of women. If you have standards and can't attract and keep a woman with issues...then something is wrong with YOU.
LMFAO...I would have sworn that this was Arch. It's funny how Arch preaches patience. This is the same guy that says he refuses to make a second date with a girl that won't at least suck his dick on the first. Why not give her a few dates for a BJ? She'll eventually come around. Instead it's be patient with women who are acting in a way that you don't like because one day she'll turn herself into what you want.


That's different. Expecting a bj on a first date isn't unrealistic...expecting to know where the hot woman you're dating lives is unrealistic. Hot women will suck your dick quicker than they'll invite you over. If she doesn't suck it...she's not going with the flow and letting things happen organically. A bj on a first date is natural and expected from high value women. That's how they get stalkers.... Once you fuck her...then you can be patient. She owes you nothing...except the bj on the first date.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:17 pm 
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lol, that's a bit off.

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Last edited by Arch Stanton on Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:29 pm 
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JackZero wrote:
Yes it does matter. It's called standards. You can be patient but why? Time is the most valuable thing that you have and you can't get it back. He doesn't have to keep this girl around and hope she turns herself around because there are absolutely, positively no guarantees that she will. This guy wants a relationship and this isn't the material that he's looking for. He can find new women that won't waste his time. Instead of banging a hot chick that doesn't want to stay the night, he can bang one that does. Right now he's wasting time on this one when he can easily find a new one. Like you said, he doesn't owe her anything and that includes patience.



You act like the OP did the choosing here, or that he had a choice. He didn't.

He got friend-zoned.

Thus my point with the "dominant male can attract and keep any type" comment. When you are well-rounded enough and patient, a man does the choosing on who is in his life or not, which is what the OP is used to with women who are not 9's and 10's (his words). The type of girl (baggage, no baggage) in this context is irrelevant.

The OP liked the woman, and appears hurt (at least momentarily) at her withdrawal after he "spoke his needs".

The OP is doing the right thing and seeing other women at this time. But had he been more patient, he could still have her in bed, and perhaps she'd open emotionally. And he still might. It's not over yet. But he has to move forward. No need to burn bridges here with "I don't feel respected" needy tirades. Just cease contact, and enjoy other women.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:21 pm 
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Arch Stanton wrote:
JackZero wrote:
Yes it does matter. It's called standards. You can be patient but why? Time is the most valuable thing that you have and you can't get it back. He doesn't have to keep this girl around and hope she turns herself around because there are absolutely, positively no guarantees that she will. This guy wants a relationship and this isn't the material that he's looking for. He can find new women that won't waste his time. Instead of banging a hot chick that doesn't want to stay the night, he can bang one that does. Right now he's wasting time on this one when he can easily find a new one. Like you said, he doesn't owe her anything and that includes patience.



You act like the OP did the choosing here, or that he had a choice. He didn't.

He got friend-zoned.

Thus my point with the "dominant male can attract and keep any type" comment. When you are well-rounded enough and patient, a man does the choosing on who is in his life or not, which is what the OP is used to with women who are not 9's and 10's (his words). The type of girl (baggage, no baggage) in this context is irrelevant.

The OP liked the woman, and appears hurt (at least momentarily) at her withdrawal after he "spoke his needs".

The OP is doing the right thing and seeing other women at this time. But had he been more patient, he could still have her in bed, and perhaps she'd open emotionally. And he still might. It's not over yet. But he has to move forward. No need to burn bridges here with "I don't feel respected" needy tirades. Just cease contact, and enjoy other women.

Incorrect. I've maintained that the OP didn't do the choosing. He was being tactical with what he's trying to achieve to her. His "spoke his needs" was done in the hopes that she would change her ways. A guy with an abundance mentality will let women go that don't fit what they like. An abundance mentality doesn't have to be quiet just to keep a girl around. An abundance mentality doesn't settle because there is always the next one. What you don't seem to get is that he didn't do the choosing because he's letting her choose. Just as your advice is her doing the choosing as long as you let her have time to choose. That's not dominant in any way. That is fundamentally weak.

Guys come here and the get weak advice with things like "soft next", "freeze outs", and "don't express what you want". These things are all passive aggressive. There is no burning bridges just because you're expressing yourself (If you say she's a bitch because she's not doing what you want, that's burning a bridge). You may not keep the girl, but so what? You're not keeping the girl because she doesn't fit what you want. If you're a guy that's worth it outside of just sex, she's going to change her attitude for you.

Think about this, if you set the standard of not saying anything about the things you don't like then she's going to think that you don't think anything is too big of a deal although that isn't the truth. Then she finally says after a few months that she wants to be exclusive, you have set the parameters of how you deal with adversity in the relationship. All of a sudden you want her to stay the night but since you didn't say anything before, why are you saying something now? You've in essence you've changed what it is that she may have liked about you and if you want to keep her, you'll just have to deal with it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:59 pm 
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So Im going to move on from this relationship for a bit. The frame is skewed and I'm off center. So even if things continued, its still FUBARd. Ill just keep things simple and start from scratch after a week or so of unavailability. This is the first time I've gotten this serious with someone since my 3 year long relationship, so I'm still getting back into it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:45 am 
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Arch Stanton wrote:
JackZero wrote:
Yes it does matter. It's called standards. You can be patient but why? Time is the most valuable thing that you have and you can't get it back. He doesn't have to keep this girl around and hope she turns herself around because there are absolutely, positively no guarantees that she will. This guy wants a relationship and this isn't the material that he's looking for. He can find new women that won't waste his time. Instead of banging a hot chick that doesn't want to stay the night, he can bang one that does. Right now he's wasting time on this one when he can easily find a new one. Like you said, he doesn't owe her anything and that includes patience.



You act like the OP did the choosing here, or that he had a choice. He didn't.

He got friend-zoned.

Thus my point with the "dominant male can attract and keep any type" comment. When you are well-rounded enough and patient, a man does the choosing on who is in his life or not, which is what the OP is used to with women who are not 9's and 10's (his words). The type of girl (baggage, no baggage) in this context is irrelevant.

The OP liked the woman, and appears hurt (at least momentarily) at her withdrawal after he "spoke his needs".

The OP is doing the right thing and seeing other women at this time. But had he been more patient, he could still have her in bed, and perhaps she'd open emotionally. And he still might. It's not over yet. But he has to move forward. No need to burn bridges here with "I don't feel respected" needy tirades. Just cease contact, and enjoy other women.



The "dominant male"/alpha dichotomy is so dated and predicated on old gender scripts of what it means to be a 'strong' male (e.g., one who doesn't discuss emotions; imposes his reality upon the world etc). It leaves no room for anything other than fear, manipulation, and a chronic need to be top dog).

Most women not only detest, but are repelled by men who adhere to this script. It can only work with somebody who is insecure, unsure of themselves, and is a pleaser- type putting others needs ahead of their own. Even still in most instances this won't last as a person can only suppress their needs so long before something gives.

A strong male knows that being vulnerable is a sign of courage and strength, not weakness or shameful. A strong guy knows his core values and is uncompromising in staying congruent to them. If he makes a request of someone and that person is either unwilling or not wanting to meet that need he will recognize that he's wasting his time and find another who will.

How much of himself would the OP have to give before he 'gets her in bed'? The relationship is 1 month new...long enough where two people should be at the beginning stages of establishing trust with one and other. This girl clearly doesn't meet his needs for security, nor affection so why, again, so early in the relationship would you suggest he continue on with something that's clearly not working? It makes no sense. He'd be doing himself a huge disservice by continuing with someone so cryptic and ambiguous about things. Let her be a mystery to someone else, why entrench yourself in someone so new just to see what may or may not happen next?

To me THAT'S the very definition of needy behavior.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:38 am 
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Arch, I'm curious...how do you distinguish what a relevant need or want is? I mean, you dismiss girls who dont give a bj, and I assume you dismiss girls for certain reasons. So why is it wrong if OP has a need thats not being met? I honestly want to know how you see differences here. I'd assume you'd be patient if a chick doesnt want to blow you on a first date, but you dont have patience for that...but tell OP he should be patient when his need is for certain things.

Quote:
So Im going to move on from this relationship for a bit. The frame is skewed and I'm off center. So even if things continued, its still FUBARd. Ill just keep things simple and start from scratch after a week or so of unavailability. This is the first time I've gotten this serious with someone since my 3 year long relationship, so I'm still getting back into it.


OP, this is a chick from 1 month ago and you're way too invested when she hasnt deserved it.

You like cuddling
You like more contact
You like chicks inviting you over

Now, this chick hasnt done that with you, so realistically you shouldnt be serious about her. How can you be this serious abt a chick who isnt even giving you what you want. You dont like HER. You like the IDEA of her. Starting from scratch and all that...man..why?

Quote:
She's beautiful, we have good rapport, she's funny. Most of the basic things that you find in attractive people.


Are you not dating women with these characteristics? I have no idea how the rapport and her humor could be so amazing that in the few times youve hung out and spoken, because she's so busy and takes a long time to respond...how that little interaction she could have you like this. Even taking it this seriously to "restart." Rapport and funny, needs momentum...back and forth. She's texting you once a day...what kinda rapport is that? You havent been to her home..what rapport is that. Where is this rapport that makes this girl worth it? 2 out of 3 things you describe about her...I scratch my head how you could get that from a chick texting you once a day and every 2-3 days, leaving after sex, and going days without responding to you. My point is, youve like the IDEA of this chick and your investment is unequal to what she is actually doing.

If she's a gorgeous girl, an ugly girl or an average girl...Like her for what she is DOING, not the GLIMPSES you get.The reason you struggle with chicks you are really attracted to, is because you prob pedestal them and like them for no reason other than they look good. You prob go on dates with them, laugh at their jokes which arent funny, and when they text you once every 3 days you lovestruck from this "rapport." If you expected more, ie REAL rapport from the chicks you find attractive you'd do better.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:05 am 
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So just to provide a conclusion for this. This ended poorly. 1) because she probably doesn't give a shit or doesn't want to put in/isn't used to putting in the effort 2)because I'm impulsive. You can make fun of me. It's pretty embarrassing, but i'll be real and share it with you guys. I need to work on myself for a bit.

The story:
During our last hang out, we went to dinner. Afterwards I mentioned we should hang out more, she agreed. We ended the night nicely with but with no sex. She texted me the next day thanking me for the night out and I mentioned that she should let me know if she's available that week to hang out. She says sure. She texted me one more time the next day about some run of the mill "how's your day" thing, but no mention of hanging out. My plan was to not initiate any texts or ask to hang out and see if she would initiate. Then radio silence for a week, don't hear from her no texts. I text her after a week during the afternoon seeing how's she's doing... No response. By this time I know she's over it so I text her "hey this obviously isn't working out, but no hard feelings. I'm around if you need anything". 4 hours and no response.

So I get a little pissed because I'm feeling like this person who I've known for a month, have slept with, have spent hundreds of dollars into providing a good time, spent all this time arranging my schedule to hang out, time into cleaning my place, to putting up with her shit... and she can't even text me back saying "thanks bye".

I text her something like "So, its kinda screwed up you just ignore me so let me be real. I feel like you've led me on for a month, and that you've been disrespectful to me as a person and for my time. I feel like I've tried to make sure you have a good time and feel somewhat special. I didn't think someone in their 30's could act like that. I kinda just feel used. Anyways, as you said "thanks for the fuck"" (She said that to me as she left my place the first time)

So she texts me back an hour later flipping out about it. She says she was working on a project that was due soon and put her phone away for a while She tells me she stopped texting me because she thought I felt "whatever" about her (Not true, made it pretty obvious I liked her and wanted to hang out). That I was disrespectful for that time she felt used for sex. That she doesn't fuck with people and why would she lead me on... And that I should have tried to talk to her and come to an understanding instead of being impulsive.

I felt bad and apologized about the impulsivity and my harsh words, but I had some things to say. She said she'd call me the next day to talk about it, but never did (that was 4 days ago)

So... I look like an ass and a huge chump. I am impulsive. I just felt really betrayed and like an idiot at the time and got angry. Especially when she never responded, it really kinda hurt me. This wasn't going anywhere anyways. I feel like she was pretty "Bleh" and even though she said she wanted to hang out , her actions proved otherwise. I hate feeling like I'm being led on so it kinda sent me over the edge.

Like neo said, she was really hot and I liked the idea of her, but her herself was pretty underwhelming.

Anyways, there you go. Thanks for the help guys. Sorry for such a shitty ending.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:22 am 
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DrDork wrote:
So just to provide a conclusion for this. This ended poorly. 1) because she probably doesn't give a shit or doesn't want to put in/isn't used to putting in the effort 2)because I'm impulsive. You can make fun of me. It's pretty embarrassing, but i'll be real and share it with you guys. I need to work on myself for a bit.

The story:
During our last hang out, we went to dinner. Afterwards I mentioned we should hang out more, she agreed. We ended the night nicely with but with no sex. She texted me the next day thanking me for the night out and I mentioned that she should let me know if she's available that week to hang out. She says sure. She texted me one more time the next day about some run of the mill "how's your day" thing, but no mention of hanging out. My plan was to not initiate any texts or ask to hang out and see if she would initiate. Then radio silence for a week, don't hear from her no texts. I text her after a week during the afternoon seeing how's she's doing... No response. By this time I know she's over it so I text her "hey this obviously isn't working out, but no hard feelings. I'm around if you need anything". 4 hours and no response.

So I get a little pissed because I'm feeling like this person who I've known for a month, have slept with, have spent hundreds of dollars into providing a good time, spent all this time arranging my schedule to hang out, time into cleaning my place, to putting up with her shit... and she can't even text me back saying "thanks bye".

I text her something like "So, its kinda screwed up you just ignore me so let me be real. I feel like you've led me on for a month, and that you've been disrespectful to me as a person and for my time. I feel like I've tried to make sure you have a good time and feel somewhat special. I didn't think someone in their 30's could act like that. I kinda just feel used. Anyways, as you said "thanks for the fuck"" (She said that to me as she left my place the first time)

So she texts me back an hour later flipping out about it. She says she was working on a project that was due soon and put her phone away for a while She tells me she stopped texting me because she thought I felt "whatever" about her (Not true, made it pretty obvious I liked her and wanted to hang out). That I was disrespectful for that time she felt used for sex. That she doesn't fuck with people and why would she lead me on... And that I should have tried to talk to her and come to an understanding instead of being impulsive.

I felt bad and apologized about the impulsivity and my harsh words, but I had some things to say. She said she'd call me the next day to talk about it, but never did (that was 4 days ago)

So... I look like an ass and a huge chump. I am impulsive. I just felt really betrayed and like an idiot at the time and got angry. Especially when she never responded, it really kinda hurt me. This wasn't going anywhere anyways. I feel like she was pretty "Bleh" and even though she said she wanted to hang out , her actions proved otherwise. I hate feeling like I'm being led on so it kinda sent me over the edge.

Like neo said, she was really hot and I liked the idea of her, but her herself was pretty underwhelming.

Anyways, there you go. Thanks for the help guys. Sorry for such a shitty ending.
This is the problem when you act in a way that don't match your intentions. You didn't send her a text to say "this isn't working out" and "no hard feelings." You sent her that text to make her react and feel guilty. When you she didn't respond, you let her know that there were hard feelings. Your actions don't match your words and, I'm sure that Arch will point this out, you got emotional. Since you did that, you gave her an out that she can put all the blame on you and that's just what she did.

Go to your phone, delete all of her contact information, and use this as a learning moment.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:24 am 
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DrDork wrote:
So just to provide a conclusion for this. This ended poorly. 1) because she probably doesn't give a shit or doesn't want to put in/isn't used to putting in the effort 2)because I'm impulsive. You can make fun of me. It's pretty embarrassing, but i'll be real and share it with you guys. I need to work on myself for a bit.


It happens. The goal is to minimize it. Most guys let it control everything social.


Quote:
I mentioned that she should let me know if she's available that week to hang out.



Why?

Just go about your day, and let her wonder about you. You don't always need to "secure" things like this.



Quote:

She says sure. She texted me one more time the next day about some run of the mill "how's your day" thing, but no mention of hanging out.


So? It's okay if she doesn't want to hang 24/7.



Quote:
My plan was to not initiate any texts or ask to hang out and see if she would initiate.


Then radio silence for a week, don't hear from her no texts.


Another guy.


Quote:
I text her after a week during the afternoon seeing how's she's doing... No response. By this time I know she's over it so I text her "hey this obviously isn't working out, but no hard feelings. I'm around if you need anything". 4 hours and no response.


This is totally unnecessary. And the "I'm around if you need anything" response is classic Nice Guy. You don't care about that, you just wanted to sleep with her again.


Quote:
So I get a little pissed because I'm feeling like this person who I've known for a month


That's nothing. You don't know her, she doesn't know you.

Quote:
have slept with, have spent hundreds of dollars into providing a good time, spent all this time arranging my schedule to hang out, time into cleaning my place, to putting up with her shit... and she can't even text me back saying "thanks bye".



Another guy.


Quote:
I text her something like "So, its kinda screwed up you just ignore me so let me be real. I feel like you've led me on for a month, and that you've been disrespectful to me as a person and for my time. I feel like I've tried to make sure you have a good time and feel somewhat special. I didn't think someone in their 30's could act like that. I kinda just feel used. Anyways, as you said "thanks for the fuck"" (She said that to me as she left my place the first time)



What's the point of this? Just go out and find better women. Hell, find a 20-something, lol.


Quote:
So she texts me back an hour later flipping out about it. She says she was working on a project that was due soon and put her phone away for a while


Bullshit.


Quote:
She tells me she stopped texting me


Ugh. This sounds like you asked her "why did you stop texting me".


Quote:
because she thought I felt "whatever" about her



Bullshit.

Pay less attention to what women say, and more to what they do.


Quote:
I felt bad and apologized about the impulsivity and my harsh words, but I had some things to say. She said she'd call me the next day to talk about it, but never did (that was 4 days ago)


that was her way of ending the conversation smoothly.

Quote:
Especially when she never responded, it really kinda hurt me.


Welcome to the world of 9's and 10's. They ignore guys without a HINT of remorse, the way I ignore advances from cougars and obese women.


Quote:
Like neo said, she was really hot and I liked the idea of her, but her herself was pretty underwhelming.



The hotness will get you, haha.

I used my green light this weekend on an ex-fling at a bar. On June 1, this woman (bartender) straight up asked me over to her place to fuck her via text. I said no, then invited her over for a threesome with my gf. She said no.

On June 10th she texts me, asks me to dump my gf and take her camping for the weekend. I said "No can do, if you weren't such a maniac...."

So my gf gives me a green light because she knows I get bored with women after a while (crafty girl). I refuse at first, but she orders me, lol. So last night I go into the bar, and the bartender starts flirting with me. I say "when do you get off your shift?" she says "1:30". I say "You're coming over. But give me a 30 minute heads-up" she says "I'm juggling too many guys right now (she just dumped her boyfriend of 8 years), it's probably not going to happen tonight." (perhaps revenge from me turning her down and lording my gf over her I suppose).

So I go home with another girl, and text the bartender this at 1:30 "hey, I have to pull that invite back. Something came up. Have a great night."

Even worse, I hung around way too long at the bar, and hurt my value by being too pushy (and lingering). I basically chased a woman needlessly (a 10, granted) when she was chasing me. It was completely stupid, emotional, and beta. All i had to do was just wait for another one of her hook-up texts. Instead, I hurt attraction.

So it happens, man. Even to me with women we are really drawn to. The key, like I said, is to minimize it. And I am, by not contacting this woman again until she contacts me.

Learn to recognize when you are over-contacting women, being emotional, controlling, and lingering. None of this stuff should happen within the first three months! Women will run from it. They will be drawn to emotionally-centered, fun men who are good in bed.

In my case last night, I wanted it bad. So bad I let it control me. Not a good way to go.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:44 am 
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Hopefully you've had your fill of this self-inflicted drama/abuse and are ready to move forward.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:02 pm 
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You and this woman are not a good match. She clearly has an "avoidant" attachment type, you have an "anxious" attachment type, this much is clear as day on your final exchange with her, you bombarding her with texts etc. Even if you held your frame and played it cool, down the line your true self would show anyway.

Have a read of "attached" by Amir Levine, it's really helping me understand why people do the things they do in dating and relationships

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:44 pm 
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Slick_uk wrote:
You and this woman are not a good match. She clearly has an "avoidant" attachment type, you have an "anxious" attachment type, this much is clear as day on your final exchange with her, you bombarding her with texts etc. Even if you held your frame and played it cool, down the line your true self would show anyway.

Have a read of "attached" by Amir Levine, it's really helping me understand why people do the things they do in dating and relationships

Great book, I recommend it quite regularly.


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